Fall trip Ukraine

[Jack]

Before Kuchma left office he must have felt that he wanted to leave something behind that the people would remember him by, so he spent millions on this statue located at the north end of Khershaytk.

This photo is a little deceptive as it looks like I'm somewhat close, but to get the entire monument, from top to bottom, in this photo one has to step back a long ways.  Do you see the lady at the bottom of the monument waving her hand?

[Jack]

How far away?  Same spot but now with zoom lens.

[Albert]

Jack, as I understood it, that is a monument to Ukraine's Independence from the Soviet Union.  It is not a monument to Kuchma.

[Albert]

Jack, how did your Helen go so quickly from blonde to dark hair in the two pictures?  Or are those two different Helens?

[jb]

Jack,

Hate to say it, but I think we grade on a different scale.  Some of these pics are nice wholesome looking girls, but I didn't see a 9 or 10 in the bunch.  Some I'd say are 6's and 7's, but several were 3's and 4's. 

[Jack]

Albert, this monument was Kuchma's baby. Many people in the goverment and throughout the country thought this was not needed, that 30 million could be better spent on the people, the roads, but Kuchma would not hear any of this. He knew he was on his way out and wanted to leave something behind. Yes, this is a monumnent that is suppose to represent Ukraine Independence because this is the title Kuchma used to getting it built.

[Jack]

Heck jb, I see lot's of 2's and 3's. Your grading kind of high I would say.

[jb]

I was referring to your post on the other thread where you said:

Two reasons. (1) Because these 9's and 10's are EVERYWHERE and (2) Because they read to much agency hype.

And you continue to post pics of girls that are, IMHO, not so hot.

Heck jb, I see lot's of 2's and 3's. Your grading kind of high I would say.

Let's just say I was being generous.

[Jack]

......I was referring to your post on the other thread where you said......

jb, that post was on another thread, not this one. No one said there were any 9's or 10's here, I guess only you assumed that.


......And you continue to post pics of girls that are, IMHO, not so hot......

Agreed jb. I mentioned this on my last trip, or the one before that, these were NOT, in my opinion, so hot ladies. Certaintly not 9's and 10's. If I didn't think they were hot, not 9's and 10's, why would you think so, are insinuate as such?

.......Let's just say I was being generous......

You? jb!    jb, it's to late in life to change certain things. Be yourself, you don't have to be generous with your opinions. Why start now?

[Turboguy]

First off not everyone is looking for a 9 or a 10.  As far as were all the gals 2's, 3's or whatever here is one from Jack's party that I would rate at least an 8, perhaps a 9 but an 8 for sure.  The one with the balloon not the one on the left.

[Admin]

Uh-oh.

I distinctly recall the last time we started down the slippery slope of rating girls with number scores.

That got Ugly fast.

We might want to stop this one here - before it becomes a runaway freight train (like the other one).

- Dan

[KenC]

Dan,
I don't see any harm in us using a point system to rate our opinions of anonymous women. Where the trouble started was when we used it to rate someone's girlfriend or wife.  That should be a strict no no in my book.  In the case of offering opinions on anyone's love interest, I adhere to the policy that if you cannot say anything nice, say nothing at all.
KenC

[jb]

Dan,

My assumption (my bad) was that Jack, by opening this thread. was touting the fall tour as something of a success.  Posting picture after picture as in a never ending stream gave me the impression he is attempting to titillate men's imaginations, to stimulate interest in the next tour, and I was frankly disappointed with his choices.  The much welcomed and highly acclaimed street scenes showing a bevy of beauties walking about is far more to my liking.   However, even those pictures are somewhat misleading because there is little likelihood any of those very young 9's and 10s showing up for a Social Tour party in search of an middle-aged Lothario.

Those street pics are not atypical of what you will see on the mid-summer streets of any major FSU city.  However, don't you think that for a MOB agency owner to post such photos is to infer that these girls are readily available?  I think that is a little disingenuous. 

[Turboguy]

It seems to me that those photos are clearly girls walking down the street.   If he said they were on the way to one of his parties that would be another situation. 

To me it is in the same class as some of the photos that he posted showing churches or the view from Lavra.   They are scenery.  The photos he posted of the parties are clearly of the parties. 

jb, you stated that there seemed to be few if any 9's and 10's at the partys.  I won't argue with that.  There were lots of very attractive women.   I have a feeling 9's and 10's are getting harder to come by in the MOB scene itself.   Of the guys I talked to, most were happy with the tour.  I talked to one who was a little disappointed for the exact reason you suggest.   He is strictly looking for a 9 or 10 and he probably is a 9 or 10 among the guys who seek an FSU woman himself.   So, he tried that and now is planning to try Elena's new premium personalized service for $ 15 grand.   He seems to know that you just keep trying until you find what you are looking for.   Since part of Jack's package is that you pick out the gals you want to meet from a buuch of different agencies if someone is looking for a 9 or a 10 and you pick them out from the agency and they don't want to meet you, I can't see that as a shortcoming of Jack's program.

KenC,  Good point and well said.  I hope I never see anyones girlfriend rated or berated here but photos from a party are not likely to start much flaming unless we accidentally hit someones love interest which isn't likely.

[jb]

T/G,

I never suggested Jack had shortcomings in his program.  It's probably the most honest and straightforward one out there.  The absence of hookers and street walkers is testament of that.  Women there by invitation only is a good thing. 

The point you seem to miss is that by posting these "scenery" shots it gives the impression that as a MOB agency owner he has better knowledge of women's availability that a newbie might have, (obviously so) and the subliminal message I get is that if you come to the FSU this is what you can date.  I mean, WTF, they are everywhere you look.

Do you not see the difference?

[Jack]

Well jb, it appears, again, you had many wrong assumptions.

You are right about something though, it was your bad assumption that these photos were touting the most recent tour as "something of a success".  jb you probably have not noticed but I have posted photos of each of my trips for the last few years, this trip is not an exception. If my choices in posting of never ending streams of pictures disappoint you, then jb, WHY look at them?  Is someone holding a gun to your head forcing you to look at such disappointing photos?  Were different in many ways jb and one of those is if I see something that bothers me or disappoints me then I try to avoid such things.  In your case jb don't you think it would be better for you and your health to not look at the photos I post that disappoint you?

jb many guys like the photos posted. To many of the guys who are happily married it brings back pleasant memories for then.  Some guys who are not able to travel back to the FSU as often as they did before enjoy seeing so many different things in the photos posted. Looking at the ladies newest fashions, the people walking the street's, maybe new monuments that have been built, seeing old monuments, cathedrals or places they once visited.

Your opinion as to the degree of beauty in these ladies is only your opinion. All men are different in what they believe are to be beautiful. It's obvious in my opinion that what you perceive as a lady who is a 2 or a 3 is an 8 or a 9 to a LOT of other men.  I have seen a photo of you and your lovely wife and as such I think she is prettier than 75% of the women who are posted here. You will probably disagree and think she is prettier than 90% of these women posted, but that is to be expected from any husband. However jb there are men who will not think like you and I and who would think that 80 or 90% of the women posted are more beautiful than your wife. It's just natural jb. All men have a different perspective of beauty in a woman.

And another of your wrong assumptions jb, HOW do you come up with the conclusion that this agency owner is inferring that these girls who are walking the streets of these cities in the FSU are readily available?  Only a fool would think that,....ooopss, I think I just answered my own question.

[jb]

Jack,

Let's not start, OK?

[Turboguy]

jb, I can see your point but I have heard many guys comment about how much they enjoy walking the streets over there and admiring the scenery and I don't mean the churches and statues.  I agree with Jack, it should bring pleasant memories to many of the men and I can not see a speck of reason Jack should not post them.

I will agree that many of the gals on the street are not interested in meeting a foreign man for marriage.   The guy I mentioned in my last post who is joining Elena's new premium service and one of the other guys bought as I understand $ 2,000.00 worth or roses and went out in the street and passed them out to the 9's and 10's that were walking the street hoping to find their love interest that way.  To the best of my knowlege it got them nowhere.   Yes, lots of those don't want a foreign husband and some may not want any husband at this stage of their life.   Still it is nice scenery.

[jb]

This is street scenery from a non-MOB agency owner



This is a subliminal message



Where do you want to go, Paris or Kiev?

[Admin]

Guys,

There is no need to get into a debate. Jack's photos are within the ToS of the board - and we have debated this 'issue' in the past.

Part of the problem is that some ascribe profit-motive to Jack's posts because he is an agency owner. Maybe so - maybe not. It doesn't really matter. He is far from violating the ToS, his photos are generally appreciated by the board members, and there is no blatant advertising or even mention of his agency.

Before this erupts - let's quash it now.

- Dan

[tim 360]

I have no problem with anybody posting scenery as was done.  Any guy getting titillated by those pic's has really got some problems...

[IAmZon]

All information is good ... Jack's photos are especially so.

What about this!  and this is a BIG WHAT IF, but ...

What if I did not necessarily INTEND to find a girl, knock her over the head, and bring her back to my tribe?

I mean what if we could live in St. Petersburg, or Kiev half the year, and back in the states half a year?  The proposition does not need to be so absolute for me ... How would this change the equation with the girls on the street photos?

[jb]

I guess I'm not the only guy here who doesn't understand the question.... What are you proposing here?  Shacking up six months there, and then living the good single life the rest of the time here?  Somehow I don't read sincerity in your posts as you explore all these different possibilities.  Are you indeed serious about a good marriage and the family life we often talk about here?  Most of the married guys would tell you that their wives would not permit such an arrangement.  Too much room for hanky-panky from their perspective.  Russian wives tend to be very jealous and don't share their toys well.

You are probably an OK guy, but we don't know you well enough yet to be able to read you, if you know what I mean.

[Jack]

rivardco, for those of us who fully understand what you are asking, such an equation would allow you the opportunity to meet many of the ladies who you are attracted to who you would see out and about in their daily life.

rivardco there are more and more men who are doing what you have described although the amount of time living in St. Pete, or Kiev, will vary. Some guys are in such a position that they can live 6 months abroad and 6 months at home. This 6 month period is usually April from September. Some guys, actually many more guys, are able to spend up to three months at a time and then there are some guys, a much lesser percentage, who can spend 9 months and even a year.

Spending this much time in St. Pete or Kiev guys are learning the language, even if it's a little, and this is a tremendous asset and advantage. As well guys are learning of place's to go to see a great number of the ladies who interest them, they are meeting and making new friends who have friends that are beautiful looking ladies, who have beautiful looking girlfriends, who also have friends. Etc, etc.

So yes rivardco, for you or any man being able to live six month in an FSU city, 6 months in the states, the equation would change and improve drastically as to the ladies you would see walking about the city that you would be able to meet.

[Thor]

jb, I can see your point but I have heard many guys comment about how much they enjoy walking the streets over there and admiring the scenery and I don't mean the churches and statues.  I agree with Jack, it should bring pleasant memories to many of the men and I can not see a speck of reason Jack should not post them.

I will agree that many of the gals on the street are not interested in meeting a foreign man for marriage.   The guy I mentioned in my last post who is joining Elena's new premium service and one of the other guys bought as I understand $ 2,000.00 worth or roses and went out in the street and passed them out to the 9's and 10's that were walking the street hoping to find their love interest that way.  To the best of my knowlege it got them nowhere.   Yes, lots of those don't want a foreign husband and some may not want any husband at this stage of their life.   Still it is nice scenery.

Hi Turboguy. I like Jacks photos very much and the photos of all this girls in the streets are jewelerys for the eye...But I truly belive that those 9 and 10 girls are very hard to get. VERY HARD. This because the economical situation in Ukraine is so improving, especialy in the big citys. These girls are hunted by local boys and also by older rich men (I have so many times seen Ukrainian men in their 50s with gourgeus girls by their side). If you are a very rich forreign guy you can have this girls of course because money talks in Ukraine...But this girls dont need to find a forreign guy, they can find a good man or rich man in Ukraine. This girls are also very well awerd of their value, and if a US man in his late 40s or 50 s belive that he can go and pick one this girls, he will be very dissapointed.  Agencys have also big troubbel to get 9 and 10 girs to come to their agencys. These girls are so importandt for the business and sometimes the agencys pays 9 and 10 s to be in their site and also pays the girls to meet men...Last nigth I went to Bolero disko in Kharkov and I saw many beautiful girls, mostly 8 s....Some few 9 s but none 10s. But a 10 in my homecountry Norway is a 9 here in Ukraine. A 7 in Ukraine 8 in Norway and so on. So there where MANY goodlooking girls at the disko.  When I traveled with Jack last year I saw several good looking girls at the socials of course(many 7 and 8s), but few 9 and no 10 s. But I never exspeckted to see 10 s either. I am realistick guy and dont belive that 10s are looking for forreign guys. I can higly recommend Jack and firstdream.  I learned a lot on this 3 weeks in Ukraine. Ukraine is very differendt from what I am used to in my country, so the winter before I went to Ukraine Jack was my teacher and worked a LOT with me, always there when I had a question.