Is it possible to do a k-1 and a k-3 at the same time?

[BillyB]

I had planned to marry and do a k-3 with my fiancee in a few months but I read this at the website of the American Embassy in Uzbekistan "The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Uzbekistan and the U.S. Embassy in Uzbekistan are currently reviewing the requirements for American Citizens who wish to register their marriage to citizens of the Republic of Uzbekistan. "

They also mention for those that wanted to marry should now start a k-1. If I start a k-1 now and the bureaucratic BS clears up and they allow marriages when I get to Uzbekistan, then could I register a k-3 while I already have the k-1 process going or do I have to abandon being married until my fiancee gets to America? It'll be nice to have two visa applications going choosing the quickest one of course, but I wouldn't want both visas(k-1 & k-3) targeted for termination by the USCIS.

[William3rd]

You can start a K1. But- the moment that you have married, you terminate your K1 eligibility and can then start a K3. You dont get an actual choice. K3 processing has varied over the years from being really fast to really slow compared to the fiancee visa but usually faster than the underlying 130 petition

If you start your K1 now, by the time the government figures out what they want to do, the K1 will be quicker by virtue of the time spent in line waiting for processing.

[Admin]

I had planned to marry and do a k-3 with my fiancee in a few months but I read this at the website of the American Embassy in Uzbekistan "The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Uzbekistan and the U.S. Embassy in Uzbekistan are currently reviewing the requirements for American Citizens who wish to register their marriage to citizens of the Republic of Uzbekistan. "

They also mention for those that wanted to marry should now start a k-1. If I start a k-1 now and the bureaucratic BS clears up and they allow marriages when I get to Uzbekistan, then could I register a k-3 while I already have the k-1 process going or do I have to abandon being married until my fiancee gets to America? It'll be nice to have two visa applications going choosing the quickest one of course, but I wouldn't want both visas(k-1 & k-3) targeted for termination by the USCIS.

Billy,

Pardon me for not knowing or doing the research, but is it possible to do DCF in Uzbekistan?

If possible, and Ukraine is any indication, this is BY FAR the fastest way to get her into the US with you.

FWIW

- Dan

[jb]

"The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Uzbekistan and the U.S. Embassy in Uzbekistan are currently reviewing the requirements for American Citizens who wish to register their marriage to citizens of the Republic of Uzbekistan. "

Billy,

William is correct, the K-1 is for a fiancee, once you get married she is a spouse, not a fiancee.

Maybe it's just me, but I was under the impression the Uzbekistan government has a problem with non-citizens getting married there.  Now the Uzbeks may sort this out with the American Embassy at some future date but the quote above clearly says there are still some problems.  I tend to agree with William, a K-1 would be the most direct route to your goal of marriage at this time.  You must weigh the delays of bureaucratic red tape against your own time table and decide if the joys of getting married there with her family in attendance are worth hanging out in government limbo indefinitely.

If it were me, I'd file for the K-1, and if in the meantime the American Embassy gets things sorted out and is willing to consider the DCF you can always jump that way. 

[BillyB]

Thanks William3rd, Dan and Jb,

I am going to start a k-1 now and if I can do a DCF when I'm in Tashkent in January, I'll do it and terminate the k-1. I've heard the DCF is the fastest way too but I need a marriage certificate from the Uzbek government and if the requirements have changed, I need to know them so I can prepare to satisfy them. I'm trying to contact the American embassy over there to get the inside scoop.

The old requirements of marrying woman in Uzbekistan required a guy to spend 30 days in country before he could register the marriage with the Uzbek govt. but that was a problem since a tourist visa last 30 days. A guy last year payed a few bribes and got his marriage certificate with him being there less than two weeks. Bribing to make things happen is a possibility as long as the Uzbek govt. still allow marriages between their citizens and Americans.

[Admin]

Thanks William3rd, Dan and Jb,

I am going to start a k-1 now and if I can do a DCF when I'm in Tashkent in January, I'll do it and terminate the k-1. I've heard the DCF is the fastest way too but I need a marriage certificate from the Uzbek government and if the requirements have changed, I need to know them so I can prepare to satisfy them. I'm trying to contact the American embassy over there to get the inside scoop.

The old requirements of marrying woman in Uzbekistan required a guy to spend 30 days in country before he could register the marriage with the Uzbek govt. but that was a problem since a tourist visa last 30 days. A guy last year payed a few bribes and got his marriage certificate with him being there less than two weeks. Bribing to make things happen is a possibility as long as the Uzbek govt. still allow marriages between their citizens and Americans.

Billy,

Ukraine has a similar 30-day requirement...officially. There is one surefire way around it to expedite things - and that is if your gal has a letter from the doctor stating she is pregnant. Perhaps there are other ways to grease the skids as well.

Just thoughts.

- Dan

[Jet]

Thanks William3rd, Dan and Jb,

I am going to start a k-1 now and if I can do a DCF when I'm in Tashkent in January, I'll do it and terminate the k-1.

Completely agree with William3rd and Jb, if things are doable once there just send USCIS a note stating you are withdrawing your petition.

The old requirements of marrying woman in Uzbekistan required a guy to spend 30 days in country before he could register the marriage with the Uzbek govt. but that was a problem since a tourist visa last 30 days. A guy last year payed a few bribes and got his marriage certificate with him being there less than two weeks. Bribing to make things happen is a possibility as long as the Uzbek govt. still allow marriages between their citizens and Americans.

Russia has the same requirement, but somehow a $20 bill tied around the neck of a bottle of Ruski Standart cuts the wait to between 8 and 14 days 

[jb]

In our case it was 3 days.

[BillyB]

Well got my answer back from the embassy in Uzbekistan. They failed to answer my DCF question but their website does say I can file an I-130 directly with the Consular section of the Embassy. Here is what they said the Uzbekistan government requires me to accept something as simple as my divorce certificate.

Legalization of documents from the United States of America for use in the Republic of Uzbekistan is a rather complex and time consuming process.   Because of the federal governmental system in the United States, documents notarized by a local notary in a US town or city must be certified by several different authorities in the United States before they can be considered valid legal instruments in Uzbekistan. 
   The United States Embassy in Tashkent cannot legalize a document from the United States.
   Steps that must be taken to legalize a US document for use in Uzbekistan:

 1. Have a local notary public notarize the document.

2. Have the county clerk certify the notary's authority.

3. Have the Secretary of State of the appropriate state certify the county's authority.

4. Have the State Department's Certification Division certify the State's authority.

5. Have the Uzbek Embassy or U.S. Embassy in Tashkent certify the State Department's authority.

At this point, the document has been legalized for use in Uzbekistan.

  I'm not sure I can pull this off in the States. A few bribes in Uzbekistan may be in order for people to accept my divorce certificate if missing a few certifications.
  I'm thinking it's best to tell the Uzbekistan office, where people register marriages, that I was never married. Yes, lie so I can get that marriage certificate and take it to the embassy to prove I'm married and get the process rolling. If that fails, the K-1 will be process and backup.

[William3rd]

Be careful on the misrepresentations and omissions.

Misstatement of a material fact usually means that you are not entering into a valid marriage under the laws of the country. Which means that everything that comes after is invalid, including your immigration filing.

They, whoever THEY might be, may never find out, but if they do. . . . . .it may be more trouble than it is worth.

Bill

[BillyB]

I've taken those issues into consideration Bill. If the marriage is not valid, then I have the k-1 to fall back on. The embassy themselves do not need to see the same documents I show the Uzbek government. All they need to see is the marriage certificate whithout all the fancy authorizations. They do not care how I obtained it. If I can't obtain a marriage certificate with the Uzbek government, then the embassy will never know because I wouldn't be able to do DCF with them. If I do obtain an Uzbek marriage certificate, I will show the embassy my divorce certificate, original or certified copy as they require, complying with the requirements of the I-130.

I think it's damn near impossible to complete the task the Uzbek government wants. I'm not even sure it's possible considering the federal government has to certify my State's authority which in turn must certify the county's authority which in turn must certify the notary's authority. What a bunch of crap. Bill, did you ever have to assist a client with a process like that?

[dwfunk]

I've taken those issues into consideration Bill. If the marriage is not valid, then I have the k-1 to fall back on. The embassy themselves do not need to see the same documents I show the Uzbek government. All they need to see is the marriage certificate whithout all the fancy authorizations. They do not care how I obtained it. If I can't obtain a marriage certificate with the Uzbek government, then the embassy will never know because I wouldn't be able to do DCF with them. If I do obtain an Uzbek marriage certificate, I will show the embassy my divorce certificate, original or certified copy as they require, complying with the requirements of the I-130.

I think it's damn near impossible to complete the task the Uzbek government wants. I'm not even sure it's possible considering the federal government has to certify my State's authority which in turn must certify the county's authority which in turn must certify the notary's authority. What a bunch of crap. Bill, did you ever have to assist a client with a process like that?

It's actually possible, and people do it everyday to conduct business over there, but you seem hell bent on not following the rules, anybodies rules.  Bite the bullet and do the legal path of least resistance, get a K-1, or marry her in Denmark or in the Seychelles, then do K-3 or DCF.


_____
David & Natalia
Republic of Texas/Moscow, Russia
УЛ. КОНЕНКОВА
16th World Spacemodeling Championships

[Turboguy]

It seems to me it would be a lot easier just to have a big wedding party there with a mock wedding service, do a K-1 and get married for real over here.   Everyone is happy and the problems are avoided.

My own daughter did something similar.  Thanks to her ex being a jerk her divorce was delayed past the time she could legally marry on the date she had planned, rented everything and invited people for.  The had a beautiful wedding, great reception.  Everyone was happy.   Just when it was over they were still not married.  A few weeks later they had a quiet real wedding at the courthouse.

[BillyB]

TG, there is a big difference in speed according to the k-1 and DCF process. I've heard some people were approved as little as a few weeks doing the DCF process.

dwfunk, I'm not hellbent in breaking rules. I'm not even sure what Uzbekistan wants is obtainable here in the States with all the certifications of authorizations they require. And remember what I said in the first post, the requirements are in dispute and when I get there, they could tell me, since Uzbekistan and the U.S govt isn't getting along, that I now need President Bush's authorization and the Presidential seal on my paperwork. To top it off if I could satisfy the requirements of Uzbekistan, I could have some Uzbek clerk tell me she/he doesn't recognize the seal of the State of Washington as legit forcing me to bribe them anyway. My goal is simple and honorable, to marry my sweetheart. People will find ways to marry no matter how much government is going to discourage them.
  I had called someone at the embassy. She said all they need to see is a marriage certificate if I could get one. They do not have the same requirements when I file the paperwork. All my paperwork with the embassy will be legal since I don't need to get certifications and authorizations from organizations all over the country.

[Turboguy]

Sorry I miss understood you.  Originally you were talking K-3 or K-1.
Yes a DCF is much faster.

[dwfunk]

dwfunk, I'm not hellbent in breaking rules. I'm not even sure what Uzbekistan wants is obtainable here in the States with all the certifications of authorizations they require. And remember what I said in the first post, the requirements are in dispute and when I get there, they could tell me, since Uzbekistan and the U.S govt isn't getting along, that I now need President Bush's authorization and the Presidential seal on my paperwork. To top it off if I could satisfy the requirements of Uzbekistan, I could have some Uzbek clerk tell me she/he doesn't recognize the seal of the State of Washington as legit forcing me to bribe them anyway. My goal is simple and honorable, to marry my sweetheart. People will find ways to marry no matter how much government is going to discourage them.
  I had called someone at the embassy. She said all they need to see is a marriage certificate if I could get one. They do not have the same requirements when I file the paperwork. All my paperwork with the embassy will be legal since I don't need to get certifications and authorizations from organizations all over the country.

You are getting all worked up over nothing.  The Uzbekistan Government is requiring a Federal level of certification.  To get that you need all of those steps you previous listed, which are set by the US Government not the Uzbekistan Government.

And so what if the Uzbekistan Government via any kind of peon clerk changes the rules on you.  We don't own the world.  So you make do with what you have, and you find another way.  You can't just chose to ignore all the rules because you think you are better than they are. It's no wonder Amercians have such a sorry reputation in the rest of the world.

So just go do it and best of luck to you both. You will need TONS of patience to wait out the K-1 process.  The Texas Service Center sends these petitions to California.



_____
David & Natalia
Republic of Texas/Moscow , Russia
УЛ. КОНЕНКОВА
16th World Spacemodeling Championships

[BillyB]

You are getting all worked up over nothing.  The Uzbekistan Government is requiring a Federal level of certification.  To get that you need all of those steps you previous listed, which are set by the US Government not the Uzbekistan Government.

You haven't been reading what I've been writing. All the U.S government wants to see is a marriage certificate to do the DCF. They do not care how you obtain it. I know a guy who worked the Uzbek system to obtain a marriage certificate. The requirements of the Uzbek government is not set by the U.S government at all. I doubt William3rd, the immigration lawyer, has gone through anything like this for any of his clients. Besides the requirements of the Uzbek government I listed, I will say for a second time in this thread, they require a foreigner to live in Uzbekistan for 30 days before issuing a marriage certificate. Their government also issues out a tourist visa for 30 days max. Get the picture? The laws don't make sense for even their own citizens. Technically it is IMPOSSIBLE for a foreigner to marry an Uzbek citizen. That's why bribing is a way of life over there. If you don't get along with their way of life, you get nowhere. It's not about Americans doing things their own way.
 

[Jet]

A couple of things to consider
1) It's not as big a deal as you make it out to be getting the documents authorized if you need contacts for this in your state, check here: http://jet-visa.com/vital_statistics.html and click your state.

2) At some point somebody is going to want to see a certificate of non impediment to marry usually procured by swearing out an affidavit before a consular officer and having it translated to the language of the country where the ceremony will take place. If you lie about any prior marriages to a consular officer, it is reasonable to suspect USCIS will find this out in the future.

[TexasBoar]

Great link, Jet.  Have it bookmarked now! 

My own divorce was a dozen years ago and in another state, so I was wondering how to go about getting a copy . . . several threads here having indicated I'd be needing one eventually.

Thanks!

~Boar

[BillyB]

Jet,

You wouldn't happen to be the owner of Jet-visa, would you? Thanks but I happened to look into the Apostille angle of the situation and it takes care of some of the requirements but not all. An apostille gets documents legal at the state level so it could be used outside the country without having it get sent to the local or federal level/U.S. State dept. Uzbekistan is one of those countries that don't recognize an apostille. They not only need certification from the state level, they need local and federal level certifications that verify the "authority" of the other levels of govenment's ability to certify the documents. It's sounds nutty but that's what they want. I may get the apostille thing going anyway just to satisfy some requirements of the Uzbek govt. If possible, I would have to make up what I lack with cash.

Also the fact that a foreigner can't marry until living in the country for 30 days minimum while his visa is good for a max of 30 days means it's damn near impossible to follow any rules without breaking them. The guy in Uzbekistan who created all these laws needs to have his head examined or he's designed it to have Uzbek govt. officials make a little extra cash through bribes.

It is not my intention to lie to the embassy or USCIS about my divorce, they will know get the proper documents without the fancy stuff the Uzbek govt requires. The goal is to obtain a marriage certificate through the Uzbek government and the embassy will recognize it without questioning how I got it. I know I'm going to have to bribe to get my way because there's no way I can live in country 30 days and stay past my visa limit to do a DCF. If it doesn't work through bribes, then I'm going to have to wait a long time till the k-1 comes through. But if it does work and I get that marriage certificate, all I need to do is show the embassy my Uzbek marriage certificate, a few other documents they require including my divorce certificate that doesn't need to have every frigging government certification/authorization in the country as the Uzbek govt. requires.

[Jet]

I understand Uzbekistan is not party to the hague convention (thus the apostille means nothing to them) but most states offer a "certificate of divorce" straight from vital statistics that *should* allow you to skip the local and county hurdles which only leaves state and federal. The consular officers can often authenticate documents at the embassy, but I understand you don't want to leave one thing "hanging out" at the last minute.

You posted about the 30 requirement several times now but the word *consecutive* has been conspicuously missing each time. Is it possible to cross the border, apply for a new visa and return back a week later? (thus fulfilling the 30 days, just not all in a row)

[username33]

   Steps that must be taken to legalize a US document for use in Uzbekistan:

 1. Have a local notary public notarize the document.

2. Have the county clerk certify the notary's authority.

3. Have the Secretary of State of the appropriate state certify the county's authority.

4. Have the State Department's Certification Division certify the State's authority.

5. Have the Uzbek Embassy or U.S. Embassy in Tashkent certify the State Department's authority.

At this point, the document has been legalized for use in Uzbekistan.[/color]

That's just crazy enough to make perfect sense. Dear god. Good luck.

[BillyB]

Jet, I do need a certified copy or original of my divorce decree to satisfy a requirement of the consulars office to file along with an I-130 and Jet-visa.com may come in handy for that. But in the consulars e-mail to me, they said they do not have the ability to legalize notorized documents to be used in Uzbekistan outside the Embassy. That means I need to satisfy the requirements of the Uzbek govt. username33 just listed for me again. All the consular's office can do is certify the State Dept's authority.
  I'm pretty sure living in Uzbekistan for 30 consecutive days is required otherwise I'd have over 30 unconsecutive days in Uzbekistan based on my third visit there and be more of a happy camper. As I mentioned earlier, a guy got around the requirements with a little assistance from cash. That's my best bet if I intend to have my fiancee come over a little sooner than later.

[username33]

As I mentioned earlier, a guy got around the requirements with a little assistance from cash. That's my best bet if I intend to have my fiancee come over a little sooner than later.

$100 got my apostilled documents fast-tracked. This was at the Department of Legalization, when I hoped to be able to get the document that would allow me to register for my marriage at ZAGs. I was living in Ukraine at the time, but planned to marry in Russia. My immigration card was ony good for the next two days; I had to be back in Ukraine by then. Looking at that, the guy in the Department of Legalization said, You can't leave the country while these documents are apostilled. You need to be able to pick them up without leaving the country. Or some such nonsense. $100 got me same-day service. It was the only way it would have worked. Sometimes, I think you just have to trust in the system. There is a way for it to work, if you believe it and are willing to find it.

Your plight inspired today's blog post - http://everybodyiloveyou.blogspot.com/2006/11/notary.html

[Turboguy]

Just a thought I had which might be totally unworkable.   Would it be possible to both go on vacation somewhere where she can get to easily, get married there, go back, have a mock marriage service for her family, do a DCF and save all the hastle.    I have no idea what the marraige requirements are in Jamiaca, the Domincan Republic, Egypt, etc but it might at least be something that would solve all the problems.