Tips on travel and accommodation...

[Kuna]

Just a quickie this time gents...

Travelling from January 18 - Most likely cities (in this order) Kyiv, Cherkasy and then Zaporozhye...

At this stage I'm intending on doing train travel because I'm not in a huge rush and I fly enough in my normal life to appreciate train travel...

Would you recommend trains or am I dreaming? (If I do take trains I think I'd book out a double sleeper so I have privacy and not be concerned about theft (as much).

Also,  with apartments...  do you think I should set everything in stone before I arrive or can I arrange apartments at the last minute? 

If everything has to be set in stone, can I make my arrival and departure times flexible or will I be surrendering money not used in some of the apartments?

Thanks in advance,

Kuna

[groovlstk]

I took a train from Kiev to Zap two Summers ago, and I thought I was going to die. The train moved at about 30 mph the entire time, and it took 12 hours. If you choose to travel by train, never buy anything less than a 1st class ticket. I was forced to buy 2nd class because we waited until the day we travelled to buy tickets, and shared the cabin with 3 others. Which brings up another quandary: you should buy your train tix before you arrive in Kiev to ensure you have a 1st class berth, so having help on the ground could be very useful to you. (Although you'll have to send your agent a copy of your passport's first page, as it's required when purchasing rail or air tix).

I'd strongly recommend air travel but personally I'd have cold feet given the rate that domestic planes fall out of the sky in Ukraine and Russia.

By the way, I only spent a day in Zap but I thought it was a beautiful little city. Evidently the air is very polluted but I was there on a perfect Summer day and I thought it was much cleaner and pleasant than Dnepropetrovsk.

[Kuna]

I took a train from Kiev to Zap two Summers ago, and I thought I was going to die. The train moved at about 30 mph the entire time, and it took 12 hours. If you choose to travel by train, never buy anything less than a 1st class ticket. I was forced to buy 2nd class because we waited until the day we travelled to buy tickets, and shared the cabin with 3 others. Which brings up another quandary: you should buy your train tix before you arrive in Kiev to ensure you have a 1st class berth, so having help on the ground could be very useful to you. (Although you'll have to send your agent a copy of your passport's first page, as it's required when purchasing rail or air tix).

I'd strongly recommend air travel but personally I'd have cold feet given the rate that domestic planes fall out of the sky in Ukraine and Russia.

By the way, I only spent a day in Zap but I thought it was a beautiful little city. Evidently the air is very polluted but I was there on a perfect Summer day and I thought it was much cleaner and pleasant than Dnepropetrovsk.

Great advice again Groov!  Gee I'm glad you guys don't charge for advice!

I've actually got a contact in Australia with one of the big travel agency groups who is the "Global Rail Specialist"... I'll get him to organise the first leg for me before I leave.

Kuna

[SANDRO43]

There's also a "Bus & Train Timetables" section
(http://russianwomendiscussion.com/wiki/index.php?Bus%20%26%20Train%20Timetables) in the Wiki here that you might find helpful.

[wiz]

Just a quickie this time gents...

Travelling from January 18 - Most likely cities (in this order) Kyiv, Cherkasy and then Zaporozhye...

At this stage I'm intending on doing train travel because I'm not in a huge rush and I fly enough in my normal life to appreciate train travel...

Would you recommend trains or am I dreaming? (If I do take trains I think I'd book out a double sleeper so I have privacy and not be concerned about theft (as much).

Also,  with apartments...  do you think I should set everything in stone before I arrive or can I arrange apartments at the last minute? 

If everything has to be set in stone, can I make my arrival and departure times flexible or will I be surrendering money not used in some of the apartments?

Thanks in advance,

Kuna

Personally I wil not travel again by train in Ukraine...... as groov said is very slow, dirty and makes no difference if you buy both births in the 1st class....they will still stick somebody else there.

In Kiev I would suggest after arriving from the long flight it would be better to organise an apartment in advance and also the transfer from Borispol airport.

There is a very nice bus service between Kyiv and Zaporochye taking around 6 hours.

[Turboguy]

You might want to think about hooking up with Pavel in Kiev.  He could do an apartment there and arrange your travel by train or plane, pick you up at the airport and translate for you if you ever need it.   You would still need to do your other apartments.   It is possible Jack could help you with that or some local agencies. 

My experience is that a lot of local travel agents don't have a clue about travel in the FSU.

If you are going to do trains, a sleeper is something to consider.   You leave lets say Kiev at 11:00 or so and wake up in your destination city bright and early.  Just bring boots for the rest rooms.   Even the second class is not bad.  I paid $ 6.00 + 1.25 for bedding going where ever I was to Kiev.  I tried to get first class but it was sold out. 

[Mir]

Hi

Ukrainian trains are slow but not too bad. If you have time then it is worth the experience.
Looks like you are going in winter and it can be bitter cold. I have visited Kiev once in February and once in March and not seen such cold weather before. Be careful as the pavements are never de-iced and can be very slippery. Also keep your eyes open for open main holes and other unexpected openings in the ground, it might be easier to do this since with the winter clothes on there won’t be much eye-candy to distract you
I think train is a better option then bus during the winter period.
I would pre-arrange airport transfers from Kiev airport. Best to stay in the centre. Someone suggested apartment near O’Brian’s and it is a good idea. Depends on how much you want to spend on accommodation, I would pay extra to have one with good facilities considering it is winter and you would need a warm base.
If you are corresponding with lots of girls then you might be thinking how will I manage to meet all of them, however it is possible that some of them may not turn up for the meeting or just disappear before you are due to arrive. I am not saying they are all unreliable but the FSU women do have this peculiar disappearing trait!
Good luck and have fun, I am sure you will love the experience.

[groovlstk]

Depends on how much you want to spend on accommodation, I would pay extra to have one with good facilities considering it is winter and you would need a warm base.

Good point, and make sure that you ask the real estate agent if the apartment has its own hot water heater, as the vast majority do not. Without a hot water heater you'll have to rely on shared heat which can be turned off for days at the whim of a bureaucrat.

[Kuna]

If you are corresponding with lots of girls then you might be thinking how will I manage to meet all of them, however it is possible that some of them may not turn up for the meeting or just disappear before you are due to arrive. I am not saying they are all unreliable but the FSU women do have this peculiar disappearing trait!

Thanks Mir,

At the moment I'm corresponding with several girls but my intention (at this stage) is to reduce down to perhaps 3 before leaving.  If any of these don't work out and I have spare time I'll either meet girls "the normal way" or will visit some local agencies.

Good tips about the accommodation... Thanks, and thanks for your good wishes.

Cheers!

Kuna

[Gator]

Without a hot water heater you'll have to rely on shared heat which can be turned off for days at the whim of a bureaucrat.

Yes, central hot water is turned off - but in the summer for about two weeks annual maintenance.

It is not turned off in the winter because people would freeze - hot water is the source of heat.

Many rental apartments have mini "point of use" hot water heaters so that they can be rented in the summer.

[IAmZon]

Warning:  Probably a Stupid Question?!?!

Why don't you rent a car?

If there are no Alamo or Avis; how much would it cost to hire a driver and car for a week?

[Gator]

Car?  Good idea!  Going by car is probably twice as fast as a bus or train.  Kharkov-Dnepropetrovsk 5 hours by rail, 2-3 hours by car (depends if a Shumacher wannabe is your driver).

Rent a car?  Bad idea!  Think about it.   Driving from city to city is possible even though all signs are in Cyrillic with some occasional English on the major highways.  The problem occurs upon arriving at a city.  No signage (this ain't America) and very few people along the streets speak English.  Even the police know little English.  This problem is insignificant in comparison to being involved in an accident.  Imagine the worst.

If you google you will find many car/driver vendors.  If traveling with a woman, let her handle it.  Most marriage agencies can book these.

[Michelangelo]

Planes are best.  Then cars.  Last would be trains.

I also used Pavel in Kiev last year when all flights were sold out. He hired a car and driver to drive me from Kiev to Kharkov.

I slept in peace most of the way and it was even easier than flying.

[wendaaaal]

Kuna,
 I'll echo Mir a bit on trains. They are slow, not super clean, but reliable and on time. Can be a great way to meet locals. Certainly more comfortable in winter than summer. Hardest part for me has been buying the tickets. You'll need assistance from a local once you get there (or try to find a cute girl in line and hope she speaks English  . That worked for me in Moscow ). Unless it's a holiday, there will be something available. Still best to book everything first chance you get when you arrive in Kiev. Can be done at many local travel agents or at the station.
 As far as apartments, you can arrange them at the last minute in most cases. Worse case you might have to stay in a hotel for the first night if you arrive late in the day with nothing booked. Most owners will not be at all flexible once you've paid them!. If you leave a day or two early, just kiss the payment goodbye! Of course if things have dried up where you are and your princess is calling from the next city, you'll probably make a move anyway! Good luck on your trip, Wendell

[Mir]

Hi Kuna

I agree that renting a car without a driver is a bad idea. Traffic is totally crazy in Ukraine. A car with a driver is OK but may be expensive.
Meeting girls the normal way, sounds interesting but you will need to speak Russian.
Some techniques I have read on another board to attract Ukrainian girls:

1.   Go to a marriage agency but lurk outside their office, or in the corridor. Girls will come there to register or to retrieve their mail. So you just introduce yourself. The downside is that the agency might think you are hurting their business and get a couple of toughs to sort you out.
2.   Stand in a place where there are plenty of girls around. Put your mobile phone to you ear and start speaking in English to your imaginary friend. The girls will be attracted to your Australian accent and soon you will have a few waiting to talk to you. Yes I agree they like Australians, for some reason Thorn Birds was very popular with Ukrainian girls. 

[SANDRO43]

Yes I agree they like Australians, for some reason Thorn Birds was very popular with Ukrainian girls

Mir, do you know if they also read Colleen McCullough's 5 other books on Caesar's Rome ? An imaginary call to a friend in LATIN would really be high-class .

[Kuna]

I agree that renting a car without a driver is a bad idea. Traffic is totally crazy in Ukraine.

Ya,  I wouldn't drive there... Gotta remember I live in a subtropical climate and we don't get snow.  I'm flat out staying on my feet on snow/ice without worries about driving in it.

Meeting girls the normal way, sounds interesting but you will need to speak Russian.
Some techniques I have read on another board to attract Ukrainian girls:
1.   Go to a marriage agency but lurk outside their office, or in the corridor. Girls will come there to register or to retrieve their mail. So you just introduce yourself. The downside is that the agency might think you are hurting their business and get a couple of toughs to sort you out.
2.   Stand in a place where there are plenty of girls around. Put your mobile phone to you ear and start speaking in English to your imaginary friend. The girls will be attracted to your Australian accent and soon you will have a few waiting to talk to you. Yes I agree they like Australians, for some reason Thorn Birds was very popular with Ukrainian girls. 

I guess with meeting girls in normal situation I'd still be looking at filling my original "Key Selection Criteria", one of which is "good" English, as a minimum.  There are probably some benefits in meeting a girl with less than perfect English, but I would like to reduce the language hurdle if possible.

I like the idea of #2.  I guess my natural approach would be to leverage my strengths and just be the dumb tourist (as I'll really be).

Hello, my name is Kuna [insert Ukrainian surname here] and I'm lost, can you help me?

I might get some blank stares but I can cope with that.   

No Rivardco,  when she asks where I want to go I will not be saying that I want to find the way to her heart!   

Kuna

[Admin]

Planes are best.  Then cars.  Last would be trains.

I also used Pavel in Kiev last year when all flights were sold out. He hired a car and driver to drive me from Kiev to Kharkov.

I slept in peace most of the way and it was even easier than flying.

There are definitely some exceptions to the objections to trains. Here is a link to one of those -- http://www.ghgroup.com.ua/gtcarriage.htm.

This would be for travelers going to and from Kyiv <-> Lviv. There is no finer train service anywhere - and believe it or not, the toilet is immaculate.

While the need to transit between Kyiv and Warsaw is no longer necessary for the visa, the opportunity to visit Poland may take you on a long train - and it can be a LOT of fun.

Now that I think about it - the one HUGE advantage of the train over the bus/plane is the opportunity to share close quarters with your gal.

In the dead of winter - the roadways are definitely hazardous. Trains are, IMO, the safest method of travel - if not the fastest.

Just more food for thought.

- Dan

[Michelangelo]

My advice to avoid trains was aimed at a first time visitor who does not speak the langauge.

Dan, you read and speak Russian, and that makes all the difference in the world.

In the beginning, I was pretty much lost trying to use trains, in the FSU and in Germany.

But when I started traveling with my girl, it was a different story.  Private sleeper cars were great!