Trip Report: Tver, Russia

[Steve16]

When I finally got a hold of her to talk about it, I received more than an earful of negativity. Being on the business end of a RW's sh*t stick is not a fun place to be, believe me. She put any AW to shame with all of the abuse she gave me that day. Ha! So many hurtful comments, wow, it still amazes me sometimes. "I must go now, I have conditioner in my hair, do you want my hair should have problem because of you? <click> <dial tone>" was the last thing we ever said to each other. 'A peculiar if not macabre-ly humorous way to end an engagement I thought.

Jerry,
That reminds me of how my first Russian girl ended it with me....nasty attitude! But from what Nadya told me, she just decided to stay in Russia with her family, there was no other guy. Sh*t happens. It was a valuable learning experience....and in hindsight, a dodged bullet.

I wish you and Olga all the best in your future life together!

Steve

[av8or1]

Sounds like a painful but lucky escape Avi8tor!

I'm glad you found Olga and wish you all the best during your New Year trip!

Kuna

Kuna,

Thank you for the support.  Yeah, the Minsk interest was a "life lesson" that's for sure.  I'm glad I have met Olga too, we'll see how it goes over New Years.  No pressure, just enjoy and let what will happen happen.

I'll let y'all know how the second trip to Tver goes too!  Thanks again for the feedback on the TR!

Best to all,

Jerry

[wxman]

This is one of the best TR's I have read. I wish Olga and you the best and a long and happy life together.  I don't know Tanya, but was curious how she might react after telling her you will keep her number in case it does not work out between Olga and you. Some people, both women and men might be offended to be thought of as a back up plan. Perhaps it would be better to wish her a happy life, than to hurt her feelings or possibly making her think that she is a safety net for you.  She sounds like a wonderful person, and you sound like a nice guy that would not want to hurt or offend her.   

[START2]

J,
 Concerning Tanya, there's a time to speak and a time to be silent. With only a few hours under your belt with Olga, that's putting alot of eggs in one basket. I think back up is a good idea but hey, you seem to be in control.
  Enjoy the New Year.

[Michelangelo]

Excellent trip report, Jerry.  Thanks for the time you spent writing it, and for the in-depth coverage, and your insights.  However, I was extremely disappointed that you wrote:

So I'd say that if you're looking for a trophy wife and divorce doesn't bother you, go to Ukraine. 

I wish you would retract this harsh and inflammatory statement, since it insults the women of Ukraine, and it's actually incorrect.  Look what Gator said in response to your statement...

I have spent a lot of time with many Russian women and with many Ukraine women.  Personally, I can not tell any difference – the individual differences predominate.  There is possibly one difference – some of the Russian women do not respect Ukraine women, especially those who dress flashy.  In contrast, no Ukrainian woman stereotyped RW.

Gator continues to show experience and wisdom in his posts, and he is totally correct when he says individual differences are, well--the difference, not the country.
_____________________________

But moving on, my advise to you is to slow down and not consider engagement, yet.  Invest more time with her.  Most vets here will advise you to meet her at least 3 or 4 times before taking the final step.  I'm with them. 

Good luck, Jerry.

[av8or1]

This is one of the best TR's I have read. I wish Olga and you the best and a long and happy life together.  I don't know Tanya, but was curious how she might react after telling her you will keep her number in case it does not work out between Olga and you. Some people, both women and men might be offended to be thought of as a back up plan. Perhaps it would be better to wish her a happy life, than to hurt her feelings or possibly making her think that she is a safety net for you.  She sounds like a wonderful person, and you sound like a nice guy that would not want to hurt or offend her.   

wxman/start2,

Regarding the notion of speaking so honestly with Tanya.  Well, we have a lot in common, us three.  I actually have been agonizing over that since I returned and put the phone call off until this week because I had the very same concerns as you.  I don't want to insult her or make her feel second best or anything else like that.  I was also curious to see how she would react.

So I decided to "face the music" and call her today.  To her credit, Tanya was wonderful about the whole issue.  In a way I wasn't too surprised after I thought about it because she struck me as such a great gal when I met with her.  I was extremely careful to tell her that I liked her very much and I wished that I had met her earlier in my trip.  I also said that I was calling because I liked her enough to tell her what was happening with me so she would not feel like I just disappeared on her.  I was concerned about her feelings in this regard.  I further told her that I was calling to be very direct, open and honest about everything and that I didn't want to lead anyone on, certainly not someone as nice as she was/is.  I conlcuded by saying that I needed to be faithful to my committment so I wouldn't be calling her again unless things didn't work out.  I then made my offer to keep her contact information and call her again if that last scenario played out.

Then I prepared for the worst.

However, she told me that she was grateful that she had met such an honest man as me (her words, not mine) and that most all of the other men she meets would not have done such a thing.  She liked such direct honesty.  She then said that she would go on living her life and if I called her then great, if not, great too (paraphrasing).

And that's where we left it.  We thanked each other for our meeting and our phone conversation and said goodbye.  Clearly, not all FSUW will react in such a positive, understanding and warm manner, but she did.  Hmmmmm...amazing woman that Tanya.

Just thought I'd bring y'all up to date.

Best to all,

Jerry

ps-Thanks for the compliment, wxman, I appreciate it.

[av8or1]

Excellent trip report, Jerry.  Thanks for the time you spent writing it, and for the in-depth coverage, and your insights.  However, I was extremely disappointed that you wrote:
[stuff about Ukrainian women snipped]

Hi Mike,

Thank you for the good words about the TR, I hope it helps folk.  Regarding my conclusion about RW/UW, hey, I won't go there again, I've said my piece.  Didn't intend to offend or hack-off anyone, so I will refer you to all of my caveats and ask that you read them again.

But moving on, my advise to you is to slow down and not consider engagement, yet.  Invest more time with her.  Most vets here will advise you to meet her at least 3 or 4 times before taking the final step.  I'm with them. 

Well thanks for the concern and believe me I do have caution in mind here.  However, after 11 trips, I also consider myself a "vet" and lemme tell ya, if there's one thing I've learned with these women it's that you can't be too hesitant with them.  I don't want to swing things too far the other way either, I am just trying to find "a balance", if there is such a thing.  Which I don't know that there is.  As my interpreter told me oneday after we had ended a phone call with my ex-girlfriend from Kazakhstan that didn't go so well, "if you not prepared to marry then don't date with Russian girls."  That same Kazakhstan now-ex-girlfriend would later tell me "You not remember I the Russian girl. You make mistake not offer me marriage after twice meet."  Hmmmmm...makes ya wonder just when you should say "when" doesn't it?

Now mind you, I think that my interpreter's statement/belief is firmly entrenched in the quick end of the dating-timeline-spectrum, but she has a real point based on my experience.  I have hesitated with these women in the past and it cost me the relationship.  The knee-jerk reaction to that loss, of course, is to say something like "good riddance", "she wasn't the one for you", "it wasn't meant to be", "she's in too much of a rush for it to be real", or "she just wanted a husband and it didn't matter who", that kinda thing.  However, having had this happen to me three times that I can think of off of the top of my head, I will approach things a little differently this time.  I'm definitely not planning on getting engaged after this trip, but I am not ruling it out either.

We'll see what happens.  Thank you for the good luck!  I appreciate it.

And on that note, I have made the reservations tonight.  I went with Delta again, trying to build the miles, though redemption of those beasties is questionable these days.  I will leave on the 22nd, overnight in Atlanta and arrive at Sheremetyevo on Sunday, 12/24.  I will return on January 4th.  So if anyone needs a mule for legal stuff/whatever, let me know if I can help. (and if I will have room, which I probably will)

Also if any of you are in Atlanta and want to do a late dinner on the night of the 22nd, drop me a line...

Best to all,

Jerry

[av8or1]

Hey Richard-

Just a quick check here...I am considering either the restaurant "Moscow Zastava", "Lazurnij", or cafe "Teatralnoe" for New Years Eve.  Have any experience with these places?

Thanks in advance!

Best to all,

Jerry

[Kuna]

Hmmmmm...amazing woman that Tanya.

She does sound like a great girl avi8or....

OK... time to hand over her email address to Rivardco!  She deserves a good man!   

Kuna

[Rvrwind]

Sorry Jerry, no I don't, however I will be going to "Lazurnij" with the gang from Valya's work. But it will be my first time there. The other two I have never been to.
And your welcome.

[Voyageur]

Hey Jerry,

I enjoyed your trip report very much. We may bump into you at SVO II on the 24th. We will also arrive via Delta but from JFK. I iam sure we will be whisked off to Vnukovo rather quicky, but I'll keep an eye out for you!

[av8or1]

Hey Jerry,

I enjoyed your trip report very much. We may bump into you at SVO II on the 24th. We will also arrive via Delta but from JFK. I iam sure we will be whisked off to Vnukovo rather quicky, but I'll keep an eye out for you!

Voyageur,

Hey, get in touch with me because I actually go to Moscow out of JFK, not Atlanta!  ATL is just a layover, for whatever reason the routing takes me AUS-ATL-JFK-SVO and the reverse on the way home.  I tried to get them to give me the flight out of Atlanta to Moscow but they wouldn't do it.  'Said I had to go to JFK.  So it appears that we might be on the same flight!  Wooo-hoooo!

Best,

Jerry

[BillyB]

Jerry,

You did good in the way you talked to Tanya. She ended up respecting you more and you left the door open for her in case things don't work out with Olga. Tanya handled it well too. A sign of a mature sincere woman.

[av8or1]

Jerry,

You did good in the way you talked to Tanya. She ended up respecting you more and you left the door open for her in case things don't work out with Olga. Tanya handled it well too. A sign of a mature sincere woman.

BillyB,

Thank you for the compliment.  'Cannot go too far wrong with the plain-n-simple truth, it's just a matter of how you talk about that truth sometimes that can make the difference.  Yup, I think Tanya is a gem too.  I wonder how many RW would have reacted in such a positive way....hmmmmm....dunno.

Best to all,

Jerry

[jinx13]

 Hey Jerry,

  So you spent Thanksgiving in Russia, and now you will be there for Christmas and New Years too. I have to ask, what does your family think of all this? Are they in Texas too? Won't they miss you during the holidays?

 I remember when I first went over my mom was freaking out because it was after terrorists crashed two planes in Russia, and one was going to the same city I was headed for (Volgograd). No one from my family really understood why I was going, I never had problems dating here, but we all know there is something special about an FSU woman. They are all ok with it now, they love Nataly, and they love me no matter what.

 Isn't it going to be strange to be in Russia on Dec. 25, and it won't even be a holiday? I think I would miss the states too much during this time, but New Years will be fun in Russia, no doubt about it, and you will have a great girl to spend some time with and get to know her better. Do Russian's kiss at midnight too, or is that an American tradition?

[av8or1]

Hey Jerry,

  So you spent Thanksgiving in Russia, and now you will be there for Christmas and New Years too. I have to ask, what does your family think of all this? Are they in Texas too? Won't they miss you during the holidays?

 I remember when I first went over my mom was freaking out because it was after terrorists crashed two planes in Russia, and one was going to the same city I was headed for (Volgograd). No one from my family really understood why I was going, I never had problems dating here, but we all know there is something special about an FSU woman. They are all ok with it now, they love Nataly, and they love me no matter what.

 Isn't it going to be strange to be in Russia on Dec. 25, and it won't even be a holiday? I think I would miss the states too much during this time, but New Years will be fun in Russia, no doubt about it, and you will have a great girl to spend some time with and get to know her better. Do Russian's kiss at midnight too, or is that an American tradition?

Dave,

My family is kind of small and we live in different cities so we don't see each other all that much.  Mom is ok with me going over, I always make sure she's gonna be ok before I leave.  I've told all of them to kinda excuse me from the holiday thing for a while because I have a personal priority to find my future partner.  After that we'll have lots of holidays together, but with a new member of the family too.  Mom's particularly excited about that because she wants to see me happy, but I think it's secretly more because she wants grandkids.

Regarding support, eh, only the fam and a few friends know about all of this, but somehow the word has leaked out amongst the general populous at the office.  No big deal, they'd find out anyway, so hey.  I haven't gotten any flack from the female contingent over it either, which is a bit of a surprise.  I heard this one guy on my trip to Moscow tell me how he got crucified at his office in Chicago when he told people about his venture.  It's kinda hard to just outright tell someone you work with to screw off, but I'd still do it, albeit in a bit more of a diplomatic manner.

As for being over there during Christmas, eh, no biggie.  I've spent many a Christmas alone in the past and one year when I was an airline jock I flew all night, not getting off of duty until 12:35 am.  I remember that year vividly 'cause I lost my then-g/f the next day, Christmas Day (AW).  Hahahaha!  To be open, I view being over there during the holidays in general as an investment in the future.  I won't miss the USA too much (as you mentioned you would), 'cause I know it'll be there when I get back.  What I've been wanting all these years is to have someone to spend it with and if I can find that by being in a foreign country during the holidays, then count me in.  Besides, if I do marry one of these lovely women, it probably won't be the last time I'm in the FSU during the holiday season.  That would include you too buddy, if you marry Nataly, just ask Voyageur!

Best to all,

Jerry

[Voyageur]

Jerry is right, Dave. 

If you marry a woman from the FSU, it is likely that you will not want to miss a Christmas and Happy New Years in Russia. My vacation time each year is limited by company I work for and there a many advantages to not burning precious vacation days over the holidays. Also, I have heard so much about the Happy New Year in Russia, I honestly do not want to miss it. 

My wife has parents, a brother and many friends that she has not seen in about a year's time. It seems only fair that (since she is here each day, living in America with my life) that we go to Russia over these holidays, IMHO.

[Rvrwind]

Gang,

I got some initial feedback from the guy I know who used TverRomance.  Apparently he was quite interested in a couple of the women in the agency who actually live in Moscow.  Well guess what, these ladies didn't show up to meet him!  Hahaha!  Instead he met several other women who he was less interested in but I think he may have found someone by the end, dunno yet.  I'm gonna try to talk to him first hand within the next few days and see if I can get more info.  'Sounds like Richard called it correctly, it's the ol' bait-n-switch routine!

Best to all,

Jerry

I'm curious to know if you have any follow up on this yet Jerry. Seeing asI got crucified by we all know who for backing up Maxx, it would be nice to hear from somebody else as well. I'm actually curious to see if the "bait & switch" worked.
If this guy hooked up with another one, obviously it does work.
Like to know how it turned out though.

[av8or1]

I'm curious to know if you have any follow up on this yet Jerry. Seeing asI got crucified by we all know who for backing up Maxx, it would be nice to hear from somebody else as well. I'm actually curious to see if the "bait & switch" worked.
If this guy hooked up with another one, obviously it does work.
Like to know how it turned out though.

Hi Richard,

Haven't heard from the guy yet, but I think he indicated that he'd have time on the weekend.  I'll either contact you offline about it or talk to you about it in person when I am in Tver in a couple of weeks.  'Probably best not to start an agency war on RWD again, dontcha know.  'Been there, done that, got the shirt.

Best to all,

Jerry

[Rvrwind]

I was gona say something but he!!, why waste my breath, .

[TripRPT]

Nice TR.

I hope things go well for you.

I do have a question thought, on the last day you asked her to be your girlfriend? Is it customary in Russia to ask such a question?

[av8or1]

Nice TR.

I hope things go well for you.

I do have a question thought, on the last day you asked her to be your girlfriend? Is it customary in Russia to ask such a question?

Hey TripRPT,

Well yeah, these women typically want some[\i] kind of committment from you if the relationship is going to go much further or if you expect them to be exclusive.  Especially in the more travelled cities where the men who have "sinned" before you have left a lot of the women jaded and negative.  From my experience these women are more formal and old-fashioned WRT the issue of relationships.  With AW you kinda have to slip the subject of "committment" in amongst a lot of jokes while in the middle of a long story while driving down the interstate and she's on the phone talking with her girlfriends or something.  Not with RW, they like it to be clear with all of your cards on the table.  IF they're into you, that is.  If they're not into you then it's a different story, best to not even bring up the subject, then punt, then find a different woman.

In this case, I wasn't prepared to propose marriage because I want more time to know Olga (or any woman) better.  But I did want to make some sort of committment, so I asked her to be my girlfriend and that I wanted us to be exclusive.  She accepted and said that she wanted the same thing.  So for now, life is good, very good.  We'll see what develops during this next trip...

Best to all,

Jerry

[IAmZon]

I've been silent just reading in amazing detail your TR, and perhaps more importantly your inner dialogue.

TREMENDOUS  WORK!!!!    A HUGE BENEFIT!!!!!!

Thank very much for exerting the effort.

[av8or1]

I've been silent just reading in amazing detail your TR, and perhaps more importantly your inner dialogue.

TREMENDOUS  WORK!!!!    A HUGE BENEFIT!!!!!!

Thank very much for exerting the effort.

Thanks rivardco,

I hope my TR helped folk out there, that was the sole purpose in writing it.  I'll be making another TR when I head back in a week, but probably with less of the inner monologue thing because this trip is more personal and will involve the thoughts and emotions of another person, namely Olga.  Still I think there will be value of making a TR in this scenario because it will help the newbies learn what a second trip to visit a specific woman who you have met once already might be like.

For those of you who don't know, there's something called the "sophmore jinx" in this endeavor where your second trip to meet a woman somehow pales by comparison to the first.  It doesn't always happen that way mind you, but often times it does.  It's weird too because you just can't put your finger on why.  You go to see her again.  You're there for a while (short while maybe!) but after the fireworks/honeymoon of you actually showing up for a second trip wear off, she seems less interested, mysteriously enough.  Or perhaps you are less interested now that you've spent some significant time with her.  Or both.  Or you become dillusioned with meeting the family and friends (a big tah-do the meeting-the-friends thing is, almost as big as meeting-the-family, and in some ways bigger, I've come to learn) and wonder if you're truly ready for a committment to this particular woman at this moment in time.  Or ... any number of other thoughts just might possibly run through your head.  Then you might start to doubt your motives for engaging in this activity in the first place.  You might long for being back home.  Or you might wish you could find an acceptable exit from your committment to this woman and begin searching for another.  "Maybe that woman," you might say to yourself as you are walking to a cafe/restaurant/whatever.  This "sophmore jinx" thing can (and has) happened, twice to me AAMOF.  Others here might attest to a similar experience, we'll see if they care to share...

Anyway, here's hoping that my upcoming trip to see Olga won't end in a similar fashion...

Best to all,

Jerry

[jb]

anyway, here's hoping that my upcoming trip to see Olga won't end in a similar fashion...

Certainly hope not. 

I don't know for sure, but it seems to me that there have been enough Tver ladies leaving for marriage to an AM that they are prolly more well versed on the drill than women from other, less often visited, cities might be.  I'm just guessing but she has probably heard all the gossip about how "ol what'shername" is doing in the USA and if she's decided to pursue a relationship outside of Russia, she is doing so with her eyes wide open.

These women are a lot smarter than many men give them credit for. 

With regard to your Olga and the upcoming trip.  Meeting the family and friends is de rigueur.  In one way or another every man with a RW has gone through this.   I suggest you just relax and muddle through as best you can.  Little gifts for her mother, little sisters and brothers are good for paving the way with the women and small people, good booze is the best bet for the men in the family who are going to put you under the microscope.  Although, one bit of advice, never try to go drink for drink with the Russian men, unless you enjoy sleeping under the table.  Russian men place some credence in the old Latin saying, "In vino veritas".  (There is truth in the wine).  They may try to get you tipsy just to see how you behave with your guard lowered.

Speaking of "wine":  Here's to a successful navigation of the next level.  Russians love the toast when they drink, with each man trying to come up with something more clever than the last guy.  You might want to do some homework on the subject before you leave.