With, or without children. A HUGE question

[FunIndieBloke]

I choose not to deal with women who already have children, but I'm in my early 30s and targeting women in their 20s, most of them who have never been married and have no children.  I don't think that I can be a step parent at this point in my life, plus I would want to create our own family from scratch.  So yes, if a gorgeous woman with compatible interests came along with a kid, I would probably not get into it to start with, as its very important to me.  But those are my values, others might be fine with kids.  If I was a single dad, I would be perfectly ok with a single mum.

[DKMM]

jb

Home ownership is not part of the equation in calculating EFC for financial aid.  In fact, its a good idea to shelter your assets by paying down your mortgage before your kids enter school.  Just an FYI.

If you have enough money to pay for tuition you aren't going to get much help from the Feds.  But if you don't have enough, you'll get enough to pay for school.

For what its worth, I'm not up for raising another man's progeny.

DKMM

[Jet]

  So my question:

Do you think I am wise, or foolish, in selecting ONLY women who have NO children in which to meet?

It's a personal decision, and depends largely on how "flexible" you want your lifestyle to remain. You and I are the same age. In my case, Lil and I met when her son was  3yrs old. He came to the US just 3 weeks before FL law required him to start Kindergarten (at 5). We got very lucky in that his Kindergarten teacher was a Polish immigrant who knew just a little Russian, as Kolya spoke exactly 10 words of English when he arrived. IMHO this is an absolute "best case" scenario. Had Kolya been a teenager, I probably would not have allowed the relationship with Liliya develop as it did. I simply know of too many horror stories about teenage kids of single parents, and the difficulties the step parent has gone through in an effort to form a new family unit (and this is not exclusive to RW/AM marriages).

The other thing to consider is that *many* women who do not have children WANT children. Are you personally ready to become a new father at 44 or 45 yrs. old? Only you can answer that, but it bears reflection as it's not a decision to be made lightly.

It's not a matter of being foolish or not, it's just a matter of you understanding what's right for yourself and what you really want.

[BC]

If you have any reservations at all about being a stepparent and/or have little or no experience parenting it's probably best to go on the conservative side and avoid women with children.

When relationships fall apart it has a dramatic effect on kids lives. Kids have their hopes and expectations too and can react in very different ways, sometimes much later in their lives (usually during the teen years). A good step parent will be aware that issues WILL arise in some form or other.  Unfortunately a lot of otherwise good relationships break up because of the inability of the step parent to deal properly with the issues at hand..  In fact they may not even realize the underlying causes or fail to seek professional assistance thinking that symptoms such as stealing, rebelling, acting over their age are simply acts of 'bad kids'.

You have to be totally dedicated and prepared to handle whatever comes.  As a father and stepfather I can say that I would much rather see someone gracefully decline than take the chance of being the next setback in a child's life.

[BillyB]

If you have any reservations at all about being a stepparent and/or have little or no experience parenting it's probably best to go on the conservative side and avoid women with children.

Yep, if you can't accept the child wholeheartedly or ready to perform parentaly duties, then do the child a favor and don't marry his/her momma.

[Turboguy]

A lot of us look for chemistry with our women.   I think with a woman with an older child, lets say around the teen years, if you don't have chemistry with both it might be best to forget it.   

I have seen children that in no time I was best buddies with and some that would have been an ordeal to be around full time. 

[Son of Clyde]

What is the most difficult is having a stepchild you did not watch grow. They will never think of you as a parent if you were not there for their formative years. You can be a buddy, someone they can trust and respect, but I don't think you can ever fill the parent role if the child is a teenager.

I was 21 when my mother remarried and her husband was a very decent man and we were always on a first name basis. I knew I could trust him and he was a good provider for mom but he was always my stepfather. Had I been 3 years old when they married, things might have been different.

[Kuna]

What is the most difficult is having a stepchild you did not watch grow. They will never think of you as a parent if you were not there for their formative years. You can be a buddy, someone they can trust and respect, but I don't think you can ever fill the parent role if the child is a teenager.

I was 21 when my mother remarried and her husband was a very decent man and we were always on a first name basis. I knew I could trust him and he was a good provider for mom but he was always my stepfather. Had I been 3 years old when they married, things might have been different.

Hmmmm...  I haven't verbalised this in "real life" because I feel some pretty heavy guilt over having these thoughts, but... I am much more excited and motivated about visiting the birthplace of my stepfather (Latvia) than I am of my own father (Hamburg).

I was 12-13 when my mother started her relationship with my stepfather. My biological father left when I was 5-6 but was "around" till I was about 8 or so.

When my father died I was upset, but mostly at the lost potential of bonding with him.  When my stepfather died I was devastated, because I lost a great friend.

I haven't been a "stepfather" to someone else's offspring, but if I found the "right one" and she had a child I would accept the package.  It might turn out to be a tough ride, but then again I'd rather a tough ride than a lost opportunity.

Sometimes blessings come in unexpected packages.

Kuna

[Son of Clyde]

Kuna,

If you are 38 you would know that things were very different in the early 1980's as compared to the present time.

My stepson left his whole world at home. I am very conservative, he is not. He was allowed to work in clubs as a DJ (this was a non alcoholic club for people under 21) and he became fond of rap music and this new style that he calls progressive heavy metal music. It is 10 times more intense than the heaviest of heavy metal. There is a band called "System of a Down" he is very fond of.

In 1982 we still had music with a beat that you could dance to. Rap had not completely taken over the airwaves in the black community.

I am trying to help and my stepson is trying to establish an identity in the US.

What makes it more difficult is that he is not willing to listen to any music other than his own. If music influences life he is stuck between rap and progressive metal. He calls his style of dress "Mafia" and I cannot relate in the least bit having been two generations removed from this music and style.

Having a teenager from the FSU is a challenge in itself. Having a teenager who will not conform is harder. In a way it is best to let him find himself but to let him know what the boundaries are.

Many of us were rebellious teens but we turned out OK.

It is funny my stepson likes one song from my childhood, "Up on the Roof" by the Drifters.

[Son of Clyde]

Sorry to be
I hope you like my new Avatar of Clyde the camel. 

[Turboguy]

SOC, With teen agers the harder you try to change them the more they will resist change.   Experience is the only way some will learn and the phase he is in now will not last forever.

Since I will be heading for Egypt in 10 days, I like your new avatar.  Now if someone would just adopt a pyramid for theirs I would feel like I was there already.

[Kuna]

Please don't think I'm trying to tell anyone how to suck eggs...  I'm just adding a slightly different perspective...

If you are 38 you would know that things were very different in the early 1980's as compared to the present time.

Things are different now to the 80's... but they are also the same.  I hear my friends worrying about their kids the same way as our parents worried about us at the same age.  It's hilarious,  sometimes I feel like I'm in a timewarp and I'm listening to one of my mates father all over again!

I also have the added insight of being the youngest in a family of 6, so the issues my parents faced with my eldest brother (now aged 54) were different, but the same, as the issues they had with me.

My stepson left his whole world at home.

This is the "biggie" in my opinion.  Any youth will feel conflicted when taken away from familiar surroundings and moving countries. I'd imagine such a huge change in culture and community would create significant anxiety.

I am very conservative, he is not. He was allowed to work in clubs as a DJ (this was a non alcoholic club for people under 21) and he became fond of rap music and this new style that he calls progressive heavy metal music. It is 10 times more intense than the heaviest of heavy metal.

Again,  please don't think I'm not hearing your concerns, or that I'm being flippant,  but didn't your parents think they were "conservative" and you were getting "hooked" on all "this crazy new modern hysterical things" (as my Greek mother used to say).

"My God Kuna,  you don't listen to me, you'll turn into a p00fter if you keep watching that homosexual man on TV anymore," she'd yell at me while Boy George was singing "You spin me round and round" in the background...  I promise you, I didn't turn out gay!

You're "conservative" now because you've matured, and you've learnt your lessons.  He's still working out who he is...  Music is a part of that for many people.

There is a band called "System of a Down" he is very fond of.

In 1982 we still had music with a beat that you could dance to. Rap had not completely taken over the airwaves in the black community.

I LOVE SOAD!!!  Great music...  have you heard their song "Lonely Days"?  If you haven't FIND IT... Please... FIND IT!  If he identifies with them just do something for him AND do something for yourself.  Find the song, listen to it... listen to the lyrics and when you've understood what the song MEANS sit with him and listen to it together... and talk about it...  It's very pertenant to your current situation!

OK, I won't keep you in suspense...

Consider these words (Random lines from the song):

"The most loneliest day of my life,
Such a lonely day and it's mine..."

"If you go I want to go with you,
If you die I want to die with you,
Take your hand and walk away,
These days I'm glad I survived"

I reckon a teenage kid taken from his home, family and friends and put into a place of "great opportunity" WOULD feel lonely, confused, maybe even angry at times.

In my opinion, he just needs to know that you understand this, you can't fix it, but what you can do is be there when he needs you.  He'll go off and explore things on his own... if he understands the core rules within your family, and if those rules give him enough freedom to grow, then you can have a strong relationship with him.

That song by the way is a wonderful song... you'll like it... Trust me!

I am trying to help and my stepson is trying to establish an identity in the US.

What makes it more difficult is that he is not willing to listen to any music other than his own. If music influences life he is stuck between rap and progressive metal. He calls his style of dress "Mafia" and I cannot relate in the least bit having been two generations removed from this music and style.

I'm no child psychologist,  but I am playing a support role for my sister with her children (13yr old girl and 8 yr old boy), and I would say that children establish their own identity, but are influenced by the values and support structures they have at home.  We all go through phases. Some phases, for some kids end up in tragedy, but the vast majority come out of it being remarkably similar to their parents (and worry about their own children when their time comes)

Your "help and support" wouldn't be understood by him if he feels that he has to listen to his "step dads music" or if he feels resistance to his endeavour of discovering himself.

Music is one way kids express themselves,  it's not the defining factor in most of their lives. As for dressing in "Mafia style",  do you ever think back at how ridiculous we looked with the long fringes and short backs (hairstyles), the white linen suits with huge shoulders we wore to clubs, or the Miami Vice jeans and dodgy sports coats we wore (even when we couldn't get up a decent stubble). 

Crikey!  My mother tried to get me to wear a safari suit because my brothers "looked so good in them" a decade or so before...

Having a teenager from the FSU is a challenge in itself. Having a teenager who will not conform is harder. In a way it is best to let him find himself but to let him know what the boundaries are.

Many of us were rebellious teens but we turned out OK.

It is funny my stepson likes one song from my childhood, "Up on the Roof" by the Drifters.

I'm really glad to read the ending to your post...  I don't think teenagers will conform because them they'll feel beaten.  They're struggling to find themselves.

I think that if kids know the basic rules in the house, and they feel there's enough freedom within those rules so they can still express themselves, they'll be much more willing to accept "Help and Support" when it's needed.

Ya know, in a crazy way I wish I was in your situation...

That song, Lonely Days, and my impression of your current situation, gives you a wonderful opportunity to give him a "milestone day".

He might not want to sit with you and talk about the song because he might feel uncomfortable, but if you can have a "moment" with him, and he doesn't feel undue pressure,  he'll do some wonderful thinking afterwards.

Kids, all kids, are good...  Some struggle and end up getting off-track,  but deep down I think we're all struggling for the same basic things in life.

Go find that sing and listen to it....  (OK...  I just found it...  go to http://www.systemofadown.com/ and it's the first song that should play after you get through the splash page)

Good luck with him mate,  to some of us you are a very lucky man!

Kuna....

[SANDRO43]

he became fond of rap music and this new style that he calls progressive heavy metal music. It is 10 times more intense than the heaviest of heavy metal. There is a band called "System of a Down" he is very fond of.

Heck SoC, did you ever LISTEN to their music ? I'm not much abreast with the finer genre distinctions of contemporary music, but if "System of a Down" are into progressive heavy metal, than heavy metal is much tamer than I recollected. And nary a trace of rap, either.

I visited the link provided by Kuna and listened to 2 of their songs, where they appear to favour orchestrations alternating loud with "soft" episodes.

The song on their homepage has occasional Arabic intervals, and "Lonely Days" a guitar arpeggio vaguely reminding me of "The House of the Rising Sun". Both musically enjoyable, IMO.

Maybe it's your stepson who should sit down with you .

[Son of Clyde]

Sandro,
If only he would listen to "Who Are the Brain Police" by Frank Zappa & the Mothers. Now this is contemporary music. I don't understand why my parents never liked this band. 

[TexasBoar]

I'm not a parent myself, but I do work with teenagers all day long, as a teacher.

SOC, they ALL tend to cling pretty tenaciously to self-created identities, as they explore who they are---and will become.  In your stepson's case, he is also maintaining control of the only things he CAN control, as part of his adjustment to a new and uncertain environment. He needs the security of the familiar while he adapts.

Maintain open lines of communication as best you can, and let him find his own way.

~Boar

[SANDRO43]

SoC of Arabia,
direct your sleepy jamal to the nearest music shop and refresh you musical tastes .

[Gator]

Clyde,

As frustrating as it may seem, try to find something interesting about his world so that you can share a few words.  At least you can be amused by the absurdity - but keep that to yourself.  He will be gone sooner than you think, and while you will welcome the peace you will look back and regret not having connected more.  It is life.

What goes around, comes around.  I recall driving my parents crazy in many ways and at least 7 of those were repeated on me by my sons including bizarre music, blowing up mailboxes, inexplicable dent in auto,  skinny dipping, plus three others for which I am not sure the statute of limitations has been exceeded.

Things have changed and it is not as easy being a kid these days.  For example, my skinny dipping escapade was a small fine and a few jokes around my father's country club (where it took place with dates, no less).  Today, this could be entered as a crime (indecent exposure) and you would be listed as a sex felon with your photo published in the paper under the annual edition "Sex criminals living in your neighborhood."  I spent $5000 on legal fees to get the charge expunged from my son's record.

[Son of Clyde]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=G9XyAZOmoqg

[TexasBoar]

Here's one that might cheer you up, SOC . . . because it could always be worse . . . he could be EMO:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ohu36-0_W_A&mode=related&search=

~Boar

[IAmZon]

from another thread:

RM do make better boyfriends than husbands. I have been told this many times by RW.
The biggest mistake I see guys making is not wanting a woman with a child. I can understand a guy 35 or under with this criteria but over that, get over yourself.
I have met a lot of very nice sexy, charming & well adjusted ladies 25-30 with a young child. Most guys don't even give them a second look, or a first for that matter. If your over 40 thats exactly the group you should be targeting & you might have a chance at success.
These ladies sowed their wild oats with the RM & now they want some stability. So she has a kid, so what? No biggy if the kid is under 6 in my opinion.
You can find some real hot ladies in this group & ones that are more settled, more stable & will make much better wives. Times are a changing & 40 year old dudes trying to get 20-25 year olds is becoming passe & unobtainable. The days of picking a puppy off the shelve are long gone. But you can still have that 9-10, however, she may have a little mileage & a little baggage!

It is TRULY surprising how valuable these kinds of dialouges are!  I want to say thank you for all those who commented.

For what it is worth,  I have not only decided to change my search criteria to include women with child (young please) ... but; after careful reflection, I prefer that segment for many of the good reasons highlighted above.

[Gator]

Congratulations, you earned an "atta boy"!  Plus a much larger pool of women to consider, and some are just dying to meet you.

[supranatural]

Another thread I dug up being new to this site.  I can say that a step child can make things more difficult but in my case it only makes the impending divorce difficult.  When I married my wife, our son (I only say stepson when necessary to clarify things, other than that I refer to him as my son) was 7 years old.  She gave me full rights as far as raising him (teaching, disciplining etc) and although we disagreed at times most of the time we did agree.  I have to count my relationship with my son as one of the most rewarding I've had in my life - he is 12 going on 13 now.  Of course the problem now is that the impending divorce has devastated him.  He does not want to live with his mother and has stated emphatically that he wants to live with me.  You can well imagine the issues this is causing as he is also very angry with his mother. 

[Thor]

[ Important history about ME:  I met a beautiful AW when I was 27. She was 30. She was in the beginning of a divorce and with two children - 10 and 8.  I liked her very much, and her me.  I saw the RED flags all over the place.  But I decided I was "big" enough to handle these kind of life challenges with a mate.  We were together 13 years.  In hindsight, her baggage (the children, her ex, her parents -  blamed me - even through therapy etc...) was enormous.  It overwhelmed me!  Things became more stable over time.  But the beauty, the deep love and connection that I wanted from a "family" never really developed as I would have liked. ]

So, now I am single again. I am 42, and look about the same as I did when I was 32.  I am in much better physical shape now then I was then.  My finances are sound; moreover, I enjoy a flexible lifestyle and schedule. Perhaps most of all, I am mature: patient; understanding; and thoughtful (things I was not in my youth). 

As I have gotten used to being single again (it took some time) I am surprised with the amount of choices I enjoy ... here in the US and abroad.

There are significant challenges associated with finding a foreign wife.  If the lady has a child it would increase the challenges ... I think.  So my question:

Do you think I am wise, or foolish, in selecting ONLY women who have NO children in which to meet?

Interesting post rivardco,

Hmm you must do what is best for you. BUT, girls with children are much more easy to find in FSU. You can find very beautiful girls with a child. Beside this so do I truly believe that a girl with a child will settel down easier in a new country. This because then she must use her energy to make everything fine for the child instead of using the energy on worry and feeling homesick...

I have been in a relashionship with a girl with a child  here in Norway and that was just cool.

You must follow your heart..

[MaxxumUSA]

Another thread I dug up being new to this site.  I can say that a step child can make things more difficult but in my case it only makes the impending divorce difficult.  When I married my wife, our son (I only say stepson when necessary to clarify things, other than that I refer to him as my son) was 7 years old.  She gave me full rights as far as raising him (teaching, disciplining etc) and although we disagreed at times most of the time we did agree.  I have to count my relationship with my son as one of the most rewarding I've had in my life - he is 12 going on 13 now.  Of course the problem now is that the impending divorce has devastated him.  He does not want to live with his mother and has stated emphatically that he wants to live with me.  You can well imagine the issues this is causing as he is also very angry with his mother. 

Supernatural...  Very simple...  Fight for custody.  Hard.

I have custody of my son since 2002.  He was never happy living with his mother.  Now we are all happy.  She can be the screw up she always was... and I can be a good father like I was meant to be.

My son is 14 years old in a couple days.  I cannot imagine what kind of life he would have if he stayed with his mother.  FOR sure he would have been into drugs and have a million piercings at a minimum!

If you believe you can do a better job than her raising him... then fight for him.  You DO have the right.  I believe at his age the court may rely heavily on his input and wishes.

Please keep us informed.

- David