Large age difference

[Elen]

I am saying this because I see other places such as Ukraine moving forward on freedom and their economy

Would not mind to enlight me in what spheres is Ukraine economy moving forward?

and Russia doing the reverse, working it's way back to less freedom and could well turn back into a dictatorship. 

prove me we had worse economy under dictatorship than we have under democracy, ple-e-ease:D

I hope this situation changes.   I see some good signs lately such as the resistance to taking away some of the benefits for the pensioneers.  


Actually pensioneers fight for what they had under dictatorship - a decent life at pension:P

[Turboguy]

As far as Ukraine moving forward, have you been to Kiev lately?  There is construction everywhere.   It is a happening place.  Politically with the Orange revolution the people stood up for what they believed in and won.   The policys they are talking about and installing will bring in progress, captial and growth.    I was there during the Orange revolution and it was amazing to see.

In Russia I see a strong move the other way.   On the excuse of fighting terroismy they now appoint the governors or district leaders.   (What in the world does that do for terrorism one way or the other)    I made a post somewhere.  It might have been one of my first posts here or on another site I found before this one that Russia was slowly taking away peoples freedom and once they take away enough freedom they can take away anything else they want.   I think what you are seeing with the pensioneers is a good example of that.  

You did not have it good under a dictatorship, you just didn't have to worry about anything.   That is not good, that is just reliable.   You had three tv channels and little black and white sets, cars that few had and those that did would break down often, lines to get simple things.   How about the other parts of dictatorships, all the millions and millions of people who died because they disagreed or even because they were good people which scared the people in charge. 

One one of my early trips to Russia, I brought home a small piece of toilet paper from my hotel in Perm.  I showed it to people in the USA and asked them what they thought it was.   No one ever guess toilet paper.  Wall paper was the most common guess.  

Please don't take this as any negative feelings towards Russia, it's government or it's people.   I love it there.   I think Putin has done some great things.  I just think for Russia to be all it can be it needs to keep moving towards a democracy and a free enterprise system.    I think there has been movement backwards.  Putin says the will not backslide.  I hope that is right.   Russia can not backslide and succeed.  I think the Russian people are the most hospitable anywhere.    

[Elen]

As far as Ukraine moving forward, have you been to Kiev lately? There is construction everywhere.   It is a happening place. 

 Pfew! You say SUCH argument to MOSKOVITE:D

Moscow to your inform is at the second place in the world with amount of $$ milliarders leaved here, but it means nothing to other country outside Moscow circle road

 I was there during the Orange revolution and it was amazing to see. In Russia I see a strong move the other way.

Of course!!:X And it your fault America!! Why do you pay such little money to our democrats??? Or you drained you limits for all others "rose-orange-red...." revolutions in our former republics???

If seriously I don't trust revolutions bought on alient money

 

You did not have it good under a dictatorship, you just didn't have to worry about anything.   That is not good, that is just reliable

May be you do allow us to deside what's good for us by ourselves?

How about the other parts of dictatorships, all the millions and millions of people who died because they disagreed or even because they were good people which scared the people in charge. 

That's called fight of classes and should be discuss with taking into account ALL events from those times

One one of my early trips to Russia, I brought home a small piece of toilet paper from my hotel in Perm.  I showed it to people in the USA and asked them what they thought it was.   No one ever guess toilet paper.  Wall paper was the most common guess.  

Well welcome to Russia now and enjoy with perfect toilet paper from your hotel And please don't pay too many attention to homeless kids at streets or to child-prostitutes at rail-station, coz it's such liitle price for good toilet paper than should not be metion at all:(

 

[Turboguy]

I agree the homeless kids are not a good situation.   That is even a bigger problem in Brazil and we have them here too.  It is sad.

 

[Elen]

I am not quite sure I understand this Elen,  Are you saying the are the second largest number of millionares in the world living in Mocow?    If so that is not correct and even if it was it would not be something to brag about.   Most Russian millionares make it illegally one way or the other.

 

37 $$ milliardres live in Moscow and about 43 (?) in New York. And I'm not "braging" at allI only try to show you how wrong your conclusion about Ukraine economy made on what you have seen in Kiev.

If a little money could affect a revoltion we would not be loosing all our brave boys in Iraq.

It means only you can't buy everybody with your money (only Ukraines -Georgians - Moldovans) 

Wonderful Idea Elen.   I will be in Moscow in two weeks with my child bride to be.   I will bring you a 13" black and white tv with all but three channels disabled and a box of soviet era clothes.   You throw your existing tv and your clothes in the trash and tell me in a month which was better.  See I am happy to let you decide you ourseves.

 

Wonder when you in America had only white-black TV sets did you also feel yourselves"without freedom"?

And btw if you would be able to return me mysafety I have in soviet times, fre of pay edication-housing-health care and decent pensions I promice to throw out my new DVD player:D

 

Sure Elen,  Tell that to the 16 million that starved to death in Ukraine all the while the food was sitting in warehouses nearby.

Want a discussion about starvation in 1935-36?? Then let go and find proved numbers of victims, refresh you knowleges about collectivisation and how thing were in argaian section in Russia before and after collectivisation and find an answer why Ukraines had not manage to pick up enough harvest that year to pay agrarian obligation to Stalin in the most rich-land region if there was not  such bad climate disaster that year.

 

[Turboguy]

Elen, I am still not sure what you are saying "37 $$ milliardres live in Moscow and about 43 (?) in New York."    What is a $$ milliadres.    I am guessing you either mean millionares or multimillionares.    

Forbes magazine does a list of the 500 wealthiest people in the world each year.   I have not looked at it for about two years.   The last I looked there were about 175 from the USA and 3 from Russia.   One of which I think was killed and/or had his oil company nationalized so he probably is no longer on it, particualarly if he is dead and if he is dead and is still on it,  he is probably not enjoying his money much.

43 Millionares for New York would not be right.   I am sure there offices in New York with that many millionares.   I need to understand more of what you are saying to comment.

As far as what you are saying about the starvation in Ukraine, remember in your glorious soviet days you were fed a lot of propoganda.   The weather was fine.  Stalin starved all those people to death because they would not give up thier farmlands and go along with colectivization.   It was cold blooded murder and in a crual way.   Saying what you are saying is the equivilent of trying to say the holicost never existed or Russia never had any soldiers killed in WWII.   Yes there were positives to the communist era but there were a lot of bad things that happened too.

 

[Elen]

milliard=billion Yes I meant multi-milliarders which fortune is more than billion dollars.

And my piont was you can't speak abput economy in country lokking at how thing are in it's capital.

43 Millionares for New York would not be right.   I am sure there offices in New York with that many millionares.   I need to understand more of what you are saying to comment.

 I meant those people have permanent place of residence in that city. We have 37 of them in Moscow.

 

As far as what you are saying about the starvation in Ukraine, remember in your glorious soviet days you were fed a lot of propoganda

As you when your reporters used photos from starvation in 20s in Povolg'e to show you how things were in 35s at Ukraine and who wrote his reportages not even visited Ukraine. Want me to find the article about that written by Canadian but not by Soviet "propagandist"?

The weather was fine.  Stalin starved all those people to death because they would not give up thier farmlands and go along with colectivization. 

 Would not give up their farmlands?? Yes certainly they would not. That was the problem.

Do you know that about 80% of so called farmlands which run agrarian business in 20 centure using only a plow could feed only themselves ? Or do you aware that because of such  efficacy starvations happened in Russia with a periodicity of 10-12 years?( without any Stalin)

 Want to discuss where all others people of Soviet Union would be if collectivization was not be done in short period of 10 years we had before the WWII?? For us it was a matter of national survival during the war. The price was about 3 millions deathes of those who resisted that.

 

It was cold blooded murder and in a crual way.   Saying what you are saying is the equivilent of trying to say the holicost never existed or Russia never had any soldiers killed in WWII. 

I'm NOT saying it has not not exist. I say if you want to discuss that isue then let's took into consideration ALL things of those times which followed to awful end result. Then you will see it was not only Stalin.

Yes there were positives to the communist era but there were a lot of bad things that happened too

Yes I do know we did studied that in our perfect soviet schools.  But I was born and lived in "good" communist times:D

[stanb4]

  Elen you are way off on the millionaire thing. Being a millionaire in the USA is no longer a big deal. Their are 100's & 100's of properties that people own in NYC that are worth well over a million dollars and prices are going up all the time. Recently an apartment sold there for 43 million and the guy paid cash. Their are over 1000 stock brokers on Wall Street that make a million a year.  

  As for me, I live 6000 miles from NY and prices and pay are high here too. Over 1/2 of the houses sold here went for over a million. Heck there is a housing developement up the street where the houses start at 5 million and some are over 20 million. Heck I'm just a waiter and I own a place thats 450,000.

  I wonder have you ever been to the USA Elen? Because a lot of us have been to Russia and Ukraine and we do have the prospective of seeing both.

[Elen]

Elen you are way off on the millionaire thing

 It's not me it's Fobs Let send all claims of yours to them:D

I wonder have you ever been to the USA Elen? Because a lot of us have been to Russia and Ukraine and we do have the prospective of seeing both.

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I 'm speaking about life in Russia and for THAT I have no need to see how things are in America:P. I do take on trust you live in paradise

  As for you beeng in FSU then I repeat- you see only the fasade. (If you don't want to bother yourself to read back what I'm discussing jusy NOW then I remind you it was a statement that economy in Ukraine was going good because there were some good things somebody have seen in Kiev)




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[Coulter]

This is a question (age diference) I will never understand. What about value differences?

[Admin]

This is a question (age diference) I will never understand. What about value differences?

Coulter, how about starting a new topic to explore this issue? I think it could be VERY illuminating to many.

- Dan

[Coulter]

by example, i have know a hearth attack in Belgium and i have stay on the ground around 30 minutes before somebody make something... it was the driver of a bus who have call help because i have blocked the way of bus... and customer have insult me... i cannot imagine so in Russia...

Unfortunately you are wrong in that case. The father of one good friend fell in the street because of an heart attack and nobody cared about him thinking he was drunk. He died that day.

[Turboguy]

I am not sure what you mean that you won't understand the qustion about age difference.    I think you are saying you don't think it is important but I am not sure.  Personally I think it is a little overblown here and I think someone out for a younger girl is not going to pay much attention to what the people here think anyway. 

Frankly I think if you could not find someone that you perceved as being more desirable than what you can find at home you would not go to all this hastle.   

Next point.  I really think Elen likes to play the devil's advocate.   I think if I posted that communism was wonderful and the people should have appreciated the great life they had and the freedom from worries, and that Russian people are night a day better than Ukrainians she would be there making points for the opposite.   That's ok, it is interesting to hear her views.

[Elen]

Next point.  I really think Elen likes to play the devil's advocate.

Is that an offence or a compliment?

 I think if I posted that communism was wonderful and the people should have appreciated the great life they had and the freedom from worries, and that Russian people are night a day better than Ukrainians she would be there making points for the opposite.

You pay too little credit to me, boy. I try to make my opinion basing on what I believe is more close to objective reality but not just about my desire to say something perpendicular to sombodies' viewpoints.

That's ok, it is interesting to hear her views.

Well:? would not mind anybody to enlight me - Is such phrase "That's ok" normal (I mean neutral) style of speaking in English? Because I have an odd feeling somebody graciously taped on my shoulder and indulgently allowed me to go on with my babbling.

 

 

[Kvinna]

sometimes I think here is the only one traditional girl  18-25 y.o. of your dreams in Russia. Her name is Fat Yury and she is waiting for you

you are welcome, old guys, in the World of Traditional Russian Wives

[Bruce]

Kvinia, guys on this thread have given you numerous examples of marriages with men 15 years or older than their brides that have been and are working excellently.  Yet, you continue to say it is impossible.  All that conveys about you is an inability to WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE (that means an inability to accept reality)!!!

[KenC]

Bruce,

Forget about trying to convince Kvinia anything.  I think she is more interested in being half of a comedy team with Elen.  The female version of Laurel & Hardy from Moscow.  I do get a kick out of their posts though, as I would any good entertainment.  When Turboguy wrote "I really think Elen likes to play the devil's advocate", my first thought was "Isn't that so typical of a Russian?"  LOL

KenC

[Turboguy]

Personally I agree with Bruce.   I think if it is 10 years or 15 or 25 or whatever it is not going to be a factor in the marriage.    I think the marriages between people who are 25 or 30 years different in age that break up would have broken up if the same people had been 5 years apart.  

If the divorce rate is higher between RW & AM it is not because of the age difference.  It is because people find someone with pretty eyes, a great smile and body that is slender and has curves in the right spot and think they are in love.   They don't really stop to think about liking the person inside that body and seeing if they have some compatability in thier values and goals and their lifes tempo. 

I did it myself.   I went to St Petersburg on an EC tour and met a gal I thought was wonderful.    What did I like about her.   Well, she had just the look that really drives me crazy.   She had a nice figure and the most fantastic legs I ever saw on a women and her french kisses were electrifying.   When she stuck that tounge into your mouth it was like she plugged you into an outlet.   I think I only got about 6 of those and nothing more for a total investment of about $  8,000    At that price they should be good.   Did I like her as a person.  Well, I guess she was ok except that she turned out to be a scammer.   I never really felt a bond with her inner person, just her legs and french kisses.    Sure there was about 30 years difference.   Had we married, would we have stayed married.   I doubt it.   Would it have been the age difference, no.   Too many people fall in lust and not in love.

Let me move on to my current fiancee.   What do I like about her.  She has a lot of great qualities, she is very warm and giving and considerate.   She is also very punctual which is not common over there.   She is a good cook.  She and I seem like we have the same sense of humor and tempo and we really seem to enjoy being in each others company.   We are both very patient and both want to make a change in our lives.   She has had some family problems and had put her happiness on a back burner to help with those.   She seems to be romantic and caring and has a warmth about her that I like.  She has a pleasnt dispositon.   Even when things are not perfect she tries to be positive.   She seems like she does not have a high self esteem but functions well with that.   I would have more trouble personally with someone with a big ego.   Yes, she is pretty and has a nice figure.    Do I feel like I am in love with her being pretty and having a nice figure.  No I feel like I am in love with the inner person.   Is there a big age difference, Yes,  Do I think if we stay on track and get married that it will work.  Yes, I fell 100% that it will.  

[Elen]

Forget about trying to convince Kvinia anything.  I think she is more interested in being half of a comedy team with Elen.  The female version of Laurel & Hardy from Moscow.  I do get a kick out of their posts though, as I would any good entertainment.  When Turboguy wrote "I really think Elen likes to play the devil's advocate", my first thought was "Isn't that so typical of a Russian?"  LOL
KenC

Are you sure we would not be offended by comparation with those guys?:X You see, we may say "good bye" to all of you and you will entertain each other by yourselves:?:X[/size][/font]

[Frank]

Elen and Kvinna,  I'm not like the typical guy on this board looking or having a wife/fiancee' allot younger than myself.  My fiancee' is only five years younger than me.  I prefer a closer age.  Also, I treat my fiancee' the way I wish to be treated.  Please don't knock these men who truly love their wives or fiancee's-even if there is a big difference in age.  The ones who are just screwing women on vacation you can rip to shreds as far as I'm concerned.  I have no use for those kinds of men. 

I have not looked at some of the posts for a few days and have since become a little irritated by the correlations of Russia/Ukraine and the USA.  It is apparent you don't know as much as you think:shock:

[Elen]

It is apparent you don't know as much as you think

I don't like abstract statements about "what I think" without quotations from my posts

[Kvinna]

the time chages,,, what do you know about modern russian girls? They are not the same ones you met even 2 years ago, they are different... forget that books by Elena Petrova, seems she is out of reality

[Bruno]

[line]
The divorce rate is higher between RW & AM
[line]


Turbo, are you sure of this... in Europe, the couple formed of EU and foreign woman stay more long married...


[line]
I think she is more interested in being half of a comedy team with Elen.  The female version of Laurel & Hardy from Moscow. 
[line]


It is perfect... Laurel and Hardy have show with humor the lack of the American society... and yes, elen have some humor in his post... for kvinna, it is too much early for judge, not enough post...

And us, who we are... the good pig in "the wolf and the three little pig" of the sex maniac in "Porky's" ...

[Turboguy]

No Bruno, I am not sure of it.   If you read what I said more carefully I said IF the divorce rate is higher.   I have no statistics on it.   Personally I think it would be lower.   I think there are a lot of factors but when you have a woman who does not know the country and has left her friends and family to go with a man she thinks will be her true love, protector and loving husand, she is going to try hard to make it work.   When you have a guy who has found a woman he has dreamed about and has gone though all the tours or letters or trips and visas and all the things that go along with it.  He has more motivation to make it work too.

The otherside is people not knowing each other.  Perhaps some of the things involved might lure in people with bad motivatons so there are some negatives too but all in all I think the marriages have a great chance of working and I have no statistics that the don't

[Coulter]

Turbo, are you sure of this... in Europe, the couple formed of EU and foreign woman stay more long married...

And us, who we are... the good pig in "the wolf and the three little pig" of the sex maniac in "Porky's" ...

How many will agree with you here, I am wondering out loud...?

It is quite easier for European men and Russian women to make the good choice. Lots of reasons...

Seems too that scammers are more attracted by US citizens than by EU ones... imo...

Again... wondering why...?