Age Gaps - A different perspective

[IAmZon]

There has been some recent thread that examines "age gaps" ... there are always threads that discuss age gaps.  I thought I would share a recent real world conversation from AM about AW for comparison:

I was with several friends last night and the idea of "this guys new girl friend" came up, and the fact that she was 26 years of age (We are all 37 - 43.)

There were five of us.  Two have had VERY VERY active dating lives over the past 5 years. One hippy - and hippies don't count. One "nice guy" who is loved by everyone - man and women - but can't remember him dating anyone, ever?!?  And myself ... newly single after a decade.

I told the group that I was interested, and very serious,  about FSU ladies and this topic is ALWAYS a concern.  There are an open minded bunch.  At first they thought I was just making my newly single life unnecessarily complicated.  But I said, that my interest was " in addition to", not either, or".

Anyway, I tried to frame the United States conversation about "age gaps" within a similar framework as the topic of "age gaps" that are discussed here at RWD, just for comparison. 

Interestingly, I found that the the two perspectives had great similarities!

We all are aware of our recent experience and ability, or lack of ability, to date a young hotties.  We are all aware that this CAN lead to heart break, and most of the time it is illusionary.  And we are all at various stages of life's desires/passages:  indulgent discontentment; boredom; Fulfilment and Meaning that comes from stable family with children.

We all agreed that we would feel "silly"  going to the campus of USF during class change and trying to meet girls - that would NOT work!  But, if you go to the right social setting, within this exact population, there exists no limitations, either.  What does this mean?

Generally, the culture and peer group of US ladies that are 20 - 25, does not "naturally" accept or promote finding partners 40 - 45.  Having said that it is not impossible for a 40 year old to date a 22 year old. The guy HAS to take care of himself, AND be "rich" ... or "rich" enough to take away material limitation (this does not necessarily mean opulence.  It just means "enabling").

And it is common in these scenarios for friendship to lead to romance, and romance to leave to love.  None of us know of any occasion that a 24 year old did not suffer a change of heart in time (usually for an emotional bond to "sprang up" with another man.  This other man is universally more age appropriate). That is to say that in the longer run these age gaps don't work. Sound familiar?

 
The letters that I receive from 18, 19, 20, 21  year old pretty girls from FSU speak of maturity and "seriousness".  I have written and spoken of the phone, I have dated others (albeit in the US).  The male ego flatters itself and imagines / fantasizes. But I conclude as an absolute generalization that these young ladies 19 - 25 are exploring life and open to new experiences primarily.  Although one could .... does that mean one should? Although lightning can strike, perhaps it is best not to plan on it.

Life experience seems to be the key, and this is a thing separate from maturity itself.  Is it possible for a woman who has not undergone some REAL LIFE challenges to make REAL LIFE choice?  After a woman has reached a point where she can make such a decision, age gaps matter far less - 15, 20 years - can work without breaking a sweat. 

I think that most newbies are likely to suffer a romantic vision mostly ... that the young woman's words and ideas are perfection (I am certain I have.)

I enjoyed the real world conversation and noticed that it was different in perspective from that discussed on this board.  I hope this stimulates a similar exhange of ideas.

[TexasBoar]

I went back to school for my degree in my thirties . . . and distinctly remember the day I happened to overhear two young college girls discussing the guy who had asked one of them for a date:

"Like, oh my god, he was all old and stuff.  He must've been, like, 30!"

I think I was 32 at that point. 

Even so, over the next 4 years, I dated student, professors, and co-workers rather, aaah, vigorously. Post-divorce and all that.  From as young as 18, to 22, 27, mid-30's, late-30's, all the way up to a marvelously young-and-hot-for-46. 

Age never really seemed to be an issue, but then . . . none of those relationships lasted, either.  Some might be quick to seize on age as the cause, but really---post-divorce, in college . . . there are more likely causes than age difference.

Too young, though, and there's just not enough to talk about,  in my experience.

~Boar

[Gator]

Texas Boar,

We have a sexy 21-yo woman who tends the bar at the club.  She is bi and not shy in talking about her experiences.  This of course arouses every red-blooded male who comes in.  One 42-yo got some courage and asked her if she liked older men.  She replied, “Sure, I once went out with a 27-yo and he almost broke me in half.”

[Gator]

Rivardco,

I hope you do try to make this age discussion different from the age-old discussions of the past.  The archives I think have all your answers.

For example, read the words of Miranda in her introduction.  Whether she is real or not this is the thinking of almost every RW her age.  And read what Groov and Startr had to say about men tripping over themselves to impress young women.  Are you one of these men?  And read what I said. 

18 t0 25!!! That is such a young age for a woman.  Not so much your age difference of 15-20? years, but the amount of change that a 18 - 25 yo woman will undergo.  The odds are one of you will wake up one day and realize the other is not the person they fell in love with. 

You know the risk is high, yet the reward is great.  Are you MAN ENOUGH to accept the consequences of failure?   If so, go for it, but take a long time before marriage.  Do you have the time?  Does she? 

And for sure you should choose one with a young child who is into family life.  If you are a good family man she may just grow to love you.  I can not think of any other plausible combination that has a reasonable chance of enduring beyond a few years.  Being a White Knight is not the answer.


Disclaimer – I had a 3-year relationship with a RW 31 years my junior. Maybe that is a qualification rather than a disclaimer.

[Kuna]

Rivardco,

Nice discussion point... but I can see that some of the old timers might be frustrated at it being raised again... 

I think it's SUCH a trap though that if it's been raised 100 times in here, it needs to be raised 100 times more because newbies (like us) that come in here have to do some serious thinking about the age issue).

It keeps coming up but I believe the essence of question is LONGTERM COMPATIBILITY.

I see KenC and think he's very lucky and very happy.  Good on him! He's found a great girl and they appear to be blissfully happy.  Who wouldn't want that!  Anyone that thinks they can march into FSU and repeat his success is running a very high risk.

Age has a big impact on compatibility. It effects maturity and life experience issuesthe current goals and stage of life that a person is at. 

A bigger issue than "immediate compatibility" ("Yeah, we like being together) is the fact that young people's attitudes and goals change when they mature.

I could settle down with a much younger girl at home but how long would it last?  After dating a procession of girls 15 (and more) years younger I know I need more than they can give me.

It's possible to date young girls at home and in FSU.  I'm not interested in dating though, I'm looking for something more permanent, something based on genuine compatibility.

For me, the extra years a girl has acquired adds not only to her maturity, but also to the likelyhood of relationship success.

You know I'm 38.  My "acceptable age range" now is 28-30, give or take a year or two.  That's a pretty limiting range huh?  I don't want to go much younger than 28 because I want a girl who's a bit settled in her head as well as her heart.  I don't want to go much over 30 because I want to develop shared memories and experiences before children come along (and I definitely want children).

If I wanted to "date" of course I would go younger, but dating holds no interest for me.

People who say FSU women are much more mature than AW cause me to think that they WANT them to be more mature. 

I've noticed that corresponding with an FSU woman can be misleading because their vocabulary is limited (like some Australia girls actually  ). They try to express their thoughts and over time you realise that the language barrier forces a narrow focus in how they express things.  If you were learning Russian you would have limited words and phrases to choose from and you wouldn't be able to apply the nuances required for specific discussions. You have to go on gut feel to an extend, and a mans "gut" is only marginally higher than his loins!

You might be able to tell that the biggest question for me is compatibility.  I think we have to be brutal in our self-assessment and be damn sure we're not being delusional.

I reckon the higher up in the body you make a decision the better it will be. 

Loins - BAD Decisions

Gut - Inconsistent Decisions

Heart - Emotional Decisions

Head - Logical decisions.

Love isn't logical, but I think my selection process BEFORE I let the heart take over should be.

My final comment is... Would a girl be BETTER if she was younger, or does it just make us FEEL better?

Kuna

[jb]

Kuna,

The above post is one of the better reality checks I've ever seen.  I suspect you are well on your way at this point.  I'll be interested to see if once you get in-country, that you don't engage in some little head thinking yourself.  It's hard to avoid.   

[Gator]

Kuna,

A brilliant introspection.

[vwrw]

You know the risk is high, yet the reward is great.  Are you MAN ENOUGH to accept the consequences of failure?   If so, go for it, but take a long time before marriage.  Do you have the time?  Does she? 


Disclaimer – I had a 3-year relationship with a RW 31 years my junior. Maybe that is a qualification rather than a disclaimer.

I think that is disclaimer. A two years being with you will influence young woman so much as 20 years being with her age man. In beginning your confidence, your high intellect, your wisdom from years of interesting experiences will make her to be incredible attracted you. Two years later because of your influencing she became much more self – confident, much more mature and wise but yet young and beautiful. Gator, have you ever met a young, beautiful, self – confident, mature and wise woman without ambitions? I never met. Now she wants much more from you than she did two years ago because now she can offer you much more than she could two years ago. Problem is you do not need what she can offer you so as you were teacher in the life’s school where she was pupil. You say her “NO” when she tells you her conditions for marriage. She accepts your “NO” as you think -“she is not worthy what she wants from you”. Gator, have you ever met a self – confident woman who could be agreed with she is not worthy something?
And again should one take a long time before marriage if there is age difference between partners? If “YES”…then what for do that? To avoid the situation where a day one of partners realizes the other is not the person he/she fell in love with? Is taking a long time before marriage a good way to avoid the situation? Maybe self – developing is better way to avoid the situation?     

[Michelangelo]

People who say FSU women are much more mature than AW cause me to think that they WANT them to be more mature. 

Great post, Kuna!

Amidst many wise things you wrote, this one holds particular insight.

It's true~ most guys who seek an FSU girl build a straw man (woman, actually) and place certain attributes on them, like this one.

But is it true?  Are is the FSU woman something that exists in the man's head and is not true in reality?

The MOB agencies tell you great things about the FSU woman, and men who WANT to believe BELIEVE.

The reality?  It simply ain't so.

[Mir]

I would like to ask one questions to couples with large age differences.I think this will apply to those where the age difference is 20+ years. How do they look at the idea of parenting? Certainly this may not be that relevant to a situation where the man is 65 and the women 40, both and specially the woman has had children from previous relations.But if the man is 60 and the woman 20 to 30 something with no children,what then?

[KenC]

I think that Kuna is on to something with his compatibility comments, but there is bound to be compatibility issues in a relationship between people of great age differences.  There just are much bigger areas of overlap with young RW as opposed to young AW and therefor a better chance of success.  RW in general are a lot more cerebral than most AW.  They are usually more well rounded culturally and educationally.  Young RW also seem to be way more respectful to older people in general.  They don't think it uncool to hang with the old farts as many young Americans do.  It is that respectfulness of elders that opens the door for many of these big gap marriages.  My wife, Lena has a circle of fsu girlfriends.  Most are a few years older than she but a Ukrainian woman in her 50's is also well accepted into the circle as well.  Sure she is a mother hen to "her girls" but she is truly an equal member to the club.  Where would you ever see this happen with young AW?

The tie that binds the "gap" couple is love.  Love is the reason that the compatibility issues can be overcome.  As Kuna pointed out, some compatibility issues may seem inconsequential at the outstart only to later change into a more difficult problem to solve later in the relationship.  People change over time and young people change greatly in a short period of time.  The younger they are the more they will change in a smaller amount of time.  In these gap marriages it is the younger woman that will be doing the changing or evolving not the older man.  So she better damn well be in love with you to accept the limitations of the relationship or it is doomed.

The love also needs to be strong from the man's side too because he also has a unique set of circumstances to overcome.  He walks a very thin line in these relationships between being a father figure and loving husband.  He must be able to deal with the frustrations that come from the clashing of her youthful exuberance and his elderly experience.  There are many simple issues that need to be handled as they come about where he may even have to bite his tongue and allow his young wife to learn from her own experiences.  That is very difficult to do in practicality.

In the beginning of these gap relationships of course the man is attracted to the woman's youth and beauty and she to his confidence and worldly knowledge but there has to be more than that.  Much more. The very things that appeared to be attractive at the start will become obstacles in the future.  The only way I see the gap couple making it through the future mine field they face is with a tremendous amount of love.  Is the love strong enough to over come the difficulties?  Nobody will know until they live through it.  
KenC
(I am not addressing the gap marriages based on sex and money because they are doomed from the begining)

[KenC]

Rivardco,

  The odds are one of you will wake up one day and realize the other is not the person they fell in love with. 

You know the risk is high, yet the reward is great.  Are you MAN ENOUGH to accept the consequences of failure?   If so, go for it, but take a long time before marriage.  Do you have the time?  Does she? 

And for sure you should choose one with a young child who is into family life.  If you are a good family man she may just grow to love you.  I can not think of any other plausible combination that has a reasonable chance of enduring beyond a few years.  Being a White Knight is not the answer.


Disclaimer – I had a 3-year relationship with a RW 31 years my junior. Maybe that is a qualification rather than a disclaimer.

Gator,
Your comments have a thread of defeatism throughout.  if you truly believe that a gap marriage will fail, then why bother?

Your high risk, great reward comment made me chuckle too.  Those are words of a man that truly is enamored with youth and beauty.  I guess I am not so much as you.  Please don't get me wrong, I appreciate beautiful women, but I don't equate youth as a qualification for beauty.  Lena has aged over 8 years since we first met and she is  more beautiful now than then.  I cannot wait for the next 8 years!  Also, you must consider if the reward is greater at all with a young beautiful woman as opposed to an older beautiful woman?  Reminds me of a joke.

Two men see a stunningly beautiful woman walks past.  One says to the other, "Wow, somewhere there is some lucky SOB that is with that woman."  To which the other replies, "No, somewhere there is a guy that is tired of putting up with her bullsh!t."

Again, don't take me the wrong way.  I still am totally mesmerized by Lena's beauty.  I still catch myself "checking her out" as she passes by me today and my heart still skips a beat or two.  But it is her heart and soul that makes me love her.  I just happened to fall in love with with a great heart and soul that arrived with some damn good "packaging."
KenC

[KenC]

I think that is disclaimer. A two years being with you will influence young woman so much as 20 years being with her age man. In beginning your confidence, your high intellect, your wisdom from years of interesting experiences will make her to be incredible attracted you. Two years later because of your influencing she became much more self – confident, much more mature and wise but yet young and beautiful. Gator, have you ever met a young, beautiful, self – confident, mature and wise woman without ambitions? I never met. Now she wants much more from you than she did two years ago because now she can offer you much more than she could two years ago. Problem is you do not need what she can offer you so as you were teacher in the life’s school where she was pupil. You say her “NO” when she tells you her conditions for marriage. She accepts your “NO” as you think -“she is not worthy what she wants from you”. Gator, have you ever met a self – confident woman who could be agreed with she is not worthy something?
And again should one take a long time before marriage if there is age difference between partners? If “YES”…then what for do that? To avoid the situation where a day one of partners realizes the other is not the person he/she fell in love with? Is taking a long time before marriage a good way to avoid the situation? Maybe self – developing is better way to avoid the situation?     

VWRW,
My answer to your question is: To avoid a potential mistake that can make years of the couples life miserable.  "Forever" is a hell of a long time, if that is your goal in the pending marriage.  What's the rush?
KenC

[Turboguy]

The only rush I feel Ken is that I would like to be with her every day.  I have never enjoyed being with someone so much in my life.  If I felt there was any uncertainty on either of our parts I would be happy to take whatever time necessary to make sure we were doing the right thing. 

[Michelangelo]

VWRW,

Different people will give you different answers to your question, "should one take a long time before marriage if there is age difference between partners? If “YES”…then what for do that?"

In my opinion, as soon as you are sure, mentally and emotionally, then why wait a long time to get married?  To me, less than three months is too short and more than a year is too long.

For Vik and me, we "dated" for a year before we started to live together.  During that year, we were together 5 times for 10 to 14 days.  Truthfully, I knew she was the one for me after out second two weeks together.  But we waited 6 months to get "engaged."

Better to be cautious than to rush into a marriage.  That's my honest opinion.

BTW~ to me the age difference issues are not as important once the woman reaches a certain age or maturity. It's an individual thing based upon both partner's life experience, but once the girl is around 28 she is more like the woman she will be later in life than she was at age 24.  That's why I was glad to have Vik, who was thirty instead of some girl age 24.  Mentally, we did have to deal with the reality that I am 18 years older than her.  No problem now, but when she is 50 I will be almost 70.  Both partners need to think about that reality now, and not later.  I'll give her children to watch over her in her old age, and an inheritance so she will not have to worry about money.

[KenC]

The only rush I feel Ken is that I would like to be with her every day.  I have never enjoyed being with someone so much in my life.  If I felt there was any uncertainty on either of our parts I would be happy to take whatever time necessary to make sure we were doing the right thing. 

Of course Turbo!  Fools in love always rush in.  (Key word here is fools)
KenC

[Turboguy]

I am not sure it happens always but I am sure it happens a lot Ken.

[vwrw]

I like these KenC’s words - "Wow, somewhere there is some lucky SOB that is with that woman." …"No, somewhere there is a guy that is tired of putting up with her bullsh!t."
What is reason the guy is tired of being with the woman? I think he is tired because of she is still the same woman he met a long time ago. He is tired of her if she is the same. He is disappointed with her if a day he realizes she is not the same. 
Kuna, what is more awfully for you to be tired of your woman or to be disappointed with her?
Guys, you can spend as much time as you want to think what is more awfully and to avoid potential mistake while others people enjoy "immediate compatibility" and being together. I prefer to remember my life passes away and that there is only one way to avoid mistakes in life – do nothing.
KenC, I do not like to postpone something for tomorrow what I can do now. Despite on last 10 years I have been in hurry for new life’s experience I had made only a few “mistakes” but I was so much happy when I was making the “mistakes” that I would prefer to refuse from all money I earned during the 10 years than to refuse from  the “mistakes”.

From Michelangelo:
To me, less than three months is too short and more than a year is too long.

To my mind too!

[Voyageur]

My wife an I have an age difference of about 18 years.  I must admit that I was worried about such a large gap, and frankly, her family was quite worried about it.

After a year and a half of marriage, I (and my wife also, who also read) can really identify with KenC's very wise post about age differences. With a substantially youthful partner, you have someone who - usually - has less baggage than you have - simply because you have been an adult longer. Also, the life has often not had the time to be as cruel  Undecided to someone younger.

Although I can honestly say that I never for one minute felt like a Father figure in or relationship, I can also say that I sometimes felt this way in my last marriage to an AW (whom was only  Roll Eyes six years younger than me).  But I can understand this and also attribute this to my wife being in her very early thirties.

The key is love, as KenC said, IMHO. You both will change and will face pressures from all sides. Almost no one on the outside looking in will really be happy for you and most will expect your relationship to eventually fail. But, in side the relationship, if there is genuine care and love, you can accept this difference and acknowledge it and move forward.

I wrote a long time ago about how it feels somewhat strange to have a much younger and quite beautiful wife. The blatant looks from men (and even women   ).  If you are both not moving in the same direction, this attention (especially in America, where women of beauty are so rare) this could be easily tear a relationship apart. This is where the true love comes in.  You will never be as young or as good looking, or have as many opportunities as your wife. This knowledge (which will become apparent after a few week's time in the US) could throw the balance of power of the relationship out of symmetry.  That the FSU culture allows for more of a gap in ages between a man and a woman is what makes most relationships discussed in these forums possible.  But IMHO, successful marriages are only the result of true love, affection, care and compromise by both partners.

And this is easier written that it is done!

[Zmejka]

Mir has asked an interesting question and noone gave a reply by now could the couples with big age gap share their opinions about having children in their marriage?

[Turboguy]

I prefer to remember my life passes away and that there is only one way to avoid mistakes in life – do nothing.

I am not saying this in refernce to anyone in particular or myself, but generally peoples biggest dissappointments when they look back on their life and not the things they did wrong.   They are the things that for whatever reason they did not do.

Zmejka there are things I don't like to say without getting the ok from VWRW but I will take a chance and say that for us, VWRK prefers not to have children.   For me, I don't care one way or the other. 

[Kuna]

I like these KenC’s words - "Wow, somewhere there is some lucky SOB that is with that woman." …"No, somewhere there is a guy that is tired of putting up with her bullsh!t."
What is reason the guy is tired of being with the woman? I think he is tired because of she is still the same woman he met a long time ago. He is tired of her if she is the same. He is disappointed with her if a day he realizes she is not the same. 
Kuna, what is more awfully for you to be tired of your woman or to be disappointed with her?
Guys, you can spend as much time as you want to think what is more awfully and to avoid potential mistake while others people enjoy "immediate compatibility" and being together. I prefer to remember my life passes away and that there is only one way to avoid mistakes in life – do nothing.
KenC, I do not like to postpone something for tomorrow what I can do now. Despite on last 10 years I have been in hurry for new life’s experience I had made only a few “mistakes” but I was so much happy when I was making the “mistakes” that I would prefer to refuse from all money I earned during the 10 years than to refuse from  the “mistakes”.

From Michelangelo:
To me, less than three months is too short and more than a year is too long.

To my mind too!

Hello vwrw,

Nice to see you posting again after "damn Turbo" took you off to Egypt for a while!  

Hmmm.. If I was tired of my woman WE obviously wouldn't be putting enough effort into the relationship to maintain the love, fun and happiness.  I think relationships are hard work, but well worth the effort.

If I was disappointed it would depend on why I was disappointed.  If I DID marry and end up "generally disappointed" I think I should be disappointed in my own bad decision making. It's too easy to point blame at the other person.

 

Congratulations on the engagement!

Kuna

[KenC]

I like these KenC’s words - "Wow, somewhere there is some lucky SOB that is with that woman." …"No, somewhere there is a guy that is tired of putting up with her bullsh!t."
What is reason the guy is tired of being with the woman? I think he is tired because of she is still the same woman he met a long time ago. He is tired of her if she is the same. He is disappointed with her if a day he realizes she is not the same. 
Kuna, what is more awfully for you to be tired of your woman or to be disappointed with her?

You miss the point entirely here.  It isn't because she is not the same, but that even beautiful women can be a pain in the ass too.  Beauty doesn't displace or compensate entirely the normal difficulties in a marriage.  The moment the man discounts his principals due to his wife's youth or beauty, he is doomed.

Guys, you can spend as much time as you want to think what is more awfully and to avoid potential mistake while others people enjoy "immediate compatibility" and being together. I prefer to remember my life passes away and that there is only one way to avoid mistakes in life – do nothing.
KenC, I do not like to postpone something for tomorrow what I can do now. Despite on last 10 years I have been in hurry for new life’s experience I had made only a few “mistakes” but I was so much happy when I was making the “mistakes” that I would prefer to refuse from all money I earned during the 10 years than to refuse from  the “mistakes”.

I am sorry, but that is such a crock of sh!t, I cannot believe you put it in writing!  There is no way in the world you or Turbo are in a position to know what the hell your long term compatibility issues are or will be or if you even are compatible at this point of your relationship.  This doesn't mean that you may not be compatible, just that there is no way to know it or even have a good guess at it yet.  Go sell that one to someone that hasn't gone through the language, cultural, and age associated difficulties you are about to face.  Better yet, send a letter outlining your "success" to an agency for them to hype it to the next sucker.

VWRW and Turbo, I am not your enemy here as Lena and I can be used as an example of a gap marriage that worked (up to 25 years any way as you two are pushing 35) but don't think I will buy into your "instant compatibility."  You had a couple of hot weeks of vacations together and things look promising but to hang labels of love, marriage and forevers on that is completely foolish.  And a risk that is unnecessary to take.
KenC

[Michelangelo]

Mir has asked an interesting question and noone gave a reply by now could the couples with big age gap share their opinions about having children in their marriage?

As for us, we both want children.  I am 18 years older than her, but that's no problem if you look at a timeline.  If she has her first child at age 32, I'll be 50.  When the child goes off to university, I'll be 68. That's not old at all.

And the truth is, an older father is a more mature father, and in most cases does not have to work as hard as he did in his 30s. Thus, he has more time for family.

[KenC]

Mir has asked an interesting question and noone gave a reply by now could the couples with big age gap share their opinions about having children in their marriage?

Zmejka/Mir,
It is an issue and it can still be an issue even if the woman in question thinks that she may not want children in the future.  Ever hear of a woman changing her mind?  :noidea:Huh? :noidea: Ever?  We have already had a member here that had his happy gap marriage go south because of this issue.
KenC