Caught her cheating

[happiness]

I caught my RW cheating on me last night so now I am beginning to consult divorce and immigration attorneys.  Some old timers may remember me from RWG and the problems I posted there.  I completely understand if you want to unleash the "I told you so" and flame away at me for not taking the advice that was given back then.  Hindsight = 20/20

However I would really appreciate any suggestions for:

1) Asset protection - I have a stock account and 401k as well as the house and both cars are in my name.  As I understand it, in Pennsylvania only the assets that were acquired during marriage are considered joint property.  The marriage only lasted one year and most assets were acquired before marriage.  Should I do anything to protect myself at this point?  Sometimes there are things that a lawyer won't tell you to do, like give cash gifts to relatives, that may be in my best interest?

2) False domestic violence charges - First of all, I have learned enough from other people's (Maxx you still here?) experiences to know that I can never touch or obstruct her from leaving.  However, I did get angry and broke down the bathroom door.  She left but called the police the next day while I was at work.  She has left the house now and I don't know if she will come back or what her plans are for the false DV charge.  She got her conditional green card in October and she has many Russian friends helping her.  When I talked to the police, she had told them that I shook her by the shoulders (untrue) and she wanted to stay in the house because it was half hers.  Other than avoiding all un-supervised contact, any other suggestions?

3) Immigration - Should I contact CIS/INS to advise them of the divorce?  I also have solid information that may cause them to revoke her green card.  Does it help me fight a false DV charge or prove adultery in the divorce case?

[prince_alfie]

You may wish to speak to Maxx about advice. PM him.

Sorry about the incident. Hopefully forgiveness is in order.

[William3rd]

Although I do not know what state you are in, here is some semi legal advice.

1- do NOT hide anything. It is already too late. If you suddenly start hiding things, the Court may punish you and it gives a certain "odor" to your case that it doesnt need.

Since it is a short marriage, she has very little in the way of community interest. Spousal support may be your main issue and that depends on your state law.

The general rule is that assets and accretions from before the marriage are separate property unless you gifted her.

2- just stay away from her. Do not contact her except in connection with filing divorce papers and make sure that there is another person listening to your end of the conversation if you do call. Even if she calls you, call her back with another person listening to your end. You would be amazed how a single telephone call can take on a life of its own when the only evidence is a telephone bill.

3- As to immigration, I would send a copy of the final divorce decree when final and a declaration to immigration stating what happened.

I would always fight a false DV claim to the end. Most guys and their attorneys wuss out due to expense, etc. Her successfully getting a DV charge on you guarantees her a permanent green card via a 360 petition under VAWA. Proof of adultery depends on your jurisdiction. It makes no difference in CA.

I would be interested in hearing what evidence you may have that might affect her GC status. Feel free to PM me.

For the record, would you mind telling me how you met this fine example of womanhood? Agency, tour, church group. . . ..

[Turboguy]

I will repeat what Alfie said because I think it is critically important.  Get ahold of Maxx as soon as possible. 

Usually as a divorce progresses it gets worse very fast.  Since she has already falsely accused you of shaking her I would expect that she is capable of being treacherous.  You need to protect yourself. 

I am sorry to hear that it happened.  We all get into a marriage with a beautiful dream of a happy life and it does not always go that way.   

I would not worry a lot about the INS at this time.  She won't be deported and you are better of not trying to hurt her in a way that will not accomplish anything and my aggravate the situation. 

The best thing to do is decide that it is over and that you might as well accept it and try to resolve the separation and divorce in as friendly and fair a way as possible.   Listen to William.  Make sure someone is with you on all meetings and for all phone calls.   Do not even think about meeting her alone.

Once again CONTACT MAXX NOW

I have a feeling that if you get through the next few weeks or a month without DV charges you may be OK, but play it safe.

[prince_alfie]

I will repeat what Alfie said because I think it is critically important.  Get ahold of Maxx as soon as possible. 

Usually as a divorce progresses it gets worse very fast.  Since she has already falsely accused you of shaking her I would expect that she is capable of being treacherous.  You need to protect yourself. 

I am sorry to hear that it happened.  We all get into a marriage with a beautiful dream of a happy life and it does not always go that way.   

I would not worry a lot about the INS at this time.  She won't be deported and you are better of not trying to hurt her in a way that will not accomplish anything and my aggravate the situation. 

The best thing to do is decide that it is over and that you might as well accept it and try to resolve the separation and divorce in as friendly and fair a way as possible.   Listen to William.  Make sure someone is with you on all meetings and for all phone calls.   Do not even think about meeting her alone.

Once again CONTACT MAXX NOW

I have a feeling that if you get through the next few weeks or a month without DV charges you may be OK, but play it safe.

Remember, I suggest that she does have the upper hand being an immigrant female in the US in terms of the law but protecting yourself is essential in this case. Maxx has a ton of experience regarding this.

I hope that this does not color your experiences with RW. Sometimes we all get a bad apple. In fact, this can happen to any guy regardless of whether she is a RW or AW (they can be real mean too). I admit that I am so lucky that I didn't marry that AW b***** a few years ago. Lucky to discover the betrayal beforehand.

Keep your chin and think positively. You are a good man and best of luck when you feel ready to search again. Attitude and faith are the best tenets for appreciating life and overcoming hardships.

[viking]

Happiness

I am no Dr. Phil, but why was she cheating? Is she just a nasty woman or was there something going on or not going on in your marriage. Is this something you guys can discuss?. Do you have feelings for her still or is this the icing on the cake and a way out for you also?

[prince_alfie]

Happiness

I am no Dr. Phil, but why was she cheating? Is she just a nasty woman or was there something going on or not going on in your marriage. Is this something you guys can discuss?. Do you have feelings for her still or is this the icing on the cake and a way out for you also?

Good point. A case of infidelity does not necessarily result in a catastrophe. In fact, this would be the result of some sort of repeated behavioral action(s).

[Shadow]

Sorry to hear about your misfortune.

All I can do is second the opinion that you should
1. Determine this is the final deal breaker
2. Do not communicte unsupervised
3. Act as fast and decisive as humanly possible
4. Get a hold of Maxx to support your case

If you think she knows about these and other forums do not give out any information she might use against you. This is public domain and all that is written here might be recorded already.

[Rim]

Good point. A case of infidelity does not necessarily result in a catastrophe. In fact, this would be the result of some sort of repeated behavioral action(s).

Not in my book.

It wouldn't matter how I had felt about her or how painful it might be I would respect myself too much to ever stay with a woman that I know has cheated on me. It wouldn't matter if we had children together or had been married 50 years, I'd be gone.

There is no forgivable reason for being unfaithful, and if you do forgive her, then she will never respect you again and she will continue to disregard your feelings in all of her actions.

[William3rd]

Go get yourself a good family law attorney in your area. It wont be that tough for you. Your issues are limited due to the short duration of the marriage.

For my last marriage, a foreign bride, she got caught-turned in by her friends. But, that was only the tip of the iceberg. It wasnt the first guy and wont be the last. SHe had a long history.

I first thought about resolving it with her, blaming myself for the infidelity but I really hadnt done anything to deserve that. THought it must be her friends influencing her.

As the days went on, more and more reports came in that revealed that she had been unfaithful on numerous occasions. I made the decision at that point that I would not accept her back even if she wished to return.

The little ho was even taking marriage proposals and meeting another man's parents while I was in Ukraine-they knew what she really was and kicked her out.

So, now she is a cosmetologist in Pasadena (or West Covina, depending who you talk to) pretending to be a little angel.

I visited her country and talked to her friends that I had met-who I could now talk to- and found out that she had a rich history of doing the same thing and doing some other things that were less than ethical. I think she hates men and likes to strike out at them.

Bottom line- dont take her back, and dont give in on anything. She will only come back if she is not on thick ice so she can perfect her case. Let your attorney talk for you and do not communicate with her directly.

If you want to play malt shop divorce with a foreign bride, you are a fool.

[Gator]

It is sad to read this.  You seem to be a realist and that is good.

I feel a DV case coming.  Sorry to say that.  Philosophically, I think it is wise to file for divorce as soon as possible.  The motivation for domestic violence is control, and by filing for divorce it demonstates that you are not trying to control her.  The correct attitude - you do not care where she goes or what she does; the marriage is irretrievably broken as far as you are concerned. 

Please contact her only through your attorney who will contact her attorney.  This is expensive - but you do not want any record of you trying to contact her (she can claim you threatened her).

It is possible that a judge may give her residence of the house while this unfolds.

[happiness]

Thanks to everyone who responded.  I had was thinking that I needed to always have a third party present if she comes back to the house, but I hadn't thought about having someone else on the phone.  I will definitely keep that in mind.

Good suggestions on the decisiveness.  Of course it's pretty hard to think clearly about this situation right now and her friends called tonight to say she wants to go back into counseling now (she walked out on our third session three months ago).

The earliest the divorce lawyer could see me is next week, but she said I could change the locks since the house is only in my name.  I'm doing that tonight because I don't want to come home from work and have her in the house with some self-inflicted wounds and the police on their way.

This is the deal breaker for me.  I have given her everything I could - a car, credit cards, clothes, vacations, money and she continually sh_t all over me.  This has crossed my personal bottom line.

I met her through a small and reputable agency.  I don't hold them at all responsible because they even told me that I shouldn't marry her.  They were trying to steer me towards another girl, but I thought I had more in common with the girl I chose. I guess they were right...

[KenC]

Happiness,
I know you're hurt and pissed, but be smart!  Stall any talk of divorce to your future ex.  Lead her to believe that you may be open to counseling, but you need time to think it over and you need your time away from her to do it.  This may do two things: Give you time to strategies with your attorney in regard to the potential DV charges before they are filed and delay the filing of the charges by your future ex wife.
KenC

[William3rd]

SO that there is NO DOUBT. DO NOT LET HER BACK IN THAT HOUSE!!!!!

She has abandoned the residence. She isnt going to get back in. If she comes back in at your invitation, rest assured-you will be going to jail next time!! Her friends will help her perfect her case if you let them. Then a 360 petition and the CR will be permanent.

Follow your attorney's instructions. And ZERO-I repeat ZERO-unmonitored contacts with her. If she is being coached, she will have someone "listening" on the other end.


If you want to reconcile, that is your decision but if reconciliation is not in contemplation, then stick with what I just said.

Having been there already,

[DKMM]

Well since I'm anonymous, you can't sue me for this advice:

1.  clean out your shared bank account, meaning cash, down to a low level like a grand.  don't worry about anything you bought before you got married, stocks and such.  Take that cash and give it to a close friend, not a relative, for safe keeping.  She will have some claim to the 401k (dammit! next time rollover to an IRA before you marry someone you aren't sure about!!), but you can avoid most problems by following next paragraph.

2&3. If her goal is to immigrate, use it to your advantage.  don't try to get her kicked out of the country for spite, she will do something nasty to you.  put her at ease by offering to help if she agrees to take a small settlement in the divorce.  our country has stupid laws that encourage her to do bad things to you, its not your job now to try and fight this problem.  Do all of this verbally, not in writing and make sure you drink a little beforehand.  After the divorce you may proceed with getting her in trouble with the USCIS.

I know it sounds crazy but you must take the high road, tell her its all your fault you understand etc. (even though she's a total loser) and to have a nice life.  It will save you $$ and headaches.

You screwed up by choosing her, but you will recover a LOT faster if you treat her well and exit gracefully. Take the money you save, and spend a couple weeks in Thailand...

[ScottinCrimea]

Happiness,
     I for one, appreciate your willingness to share this experience with this post at the risk of put downs or I told you so's.  I think this discussion will provide a lot of insight for others who may go through this experience.
     I second what has been said so far, especially with regards to keeping your behavior beyond reproach and covering your backside at all times.  You can bet that once her Russian friends tell her how little she will get and what she stands to lose, her first approach will be to try to patch things up until she can get on firmer ground and then, failing this, she will go for the DV thing.
     It can get really nasty.  My last marriage to an AM lasted only 8 months and still required 2 years and over $80,000 to get things resolved because she was such a vindictive b***.  I wouldn't wish that experience on anyone.
     I wish you well and hope you find the help you need here.

[Maxx2]

Hello Happiness

Ken's got a good idea about buying some time if you could pull it off. I fear that in trying to do so you will put yourself in a position where there will be an upping of the charges against you. Right now you may be facing just a civil trial. If she comes back into your home and self inflicts some wounds then it is guaranteed it will become a criminal matter.

A third party in the house should be another woman never another man.

Filing for divorce ASAP is a good idea just to get this over but since a divorce filing will happen after this incident using it as proof that you wanted to let her go and not hold on to her will not work in your defence in a DV trial. Too late.

First thing you need to do is make yourself scarce. If you can do not let her know where you are. Hide the car, pull the blinds shut and screen your calls. Of course make no contact with her or her friends either in person or by phone. Expect that she might try and lure you back. The marriage counceling that she wants may be a ruse.

About assets. If you have some irreplaceable objects such as family heirlooms etc. I would get them to a safe place. You can sell some of your marital assets if the money is used for lawyers fees. All the other stuff is not worth fighting for. However if you have these under your possession it is likely they will stay there as it is not usual that allot of money in lawyers fees will be spent to get back a couch or arm chair. Also a divorce filing will protect you from her going out and adding up allot of debt. If you have large liquid assets protect those so she can't get them. You may need your attorney's help with this.

You will probably will be facing some sort of DV trial in the next week or two. Your wife may be advised she needs more official evidence of abuse to go with her I-360 self petition. So expect and prepare or a trial from her to get a protective order out against you. So you will need an attorney that has knowledge about these types of cases with immigrant women. The typical family court attorney will be clueless about defence. Where as the prosecutor and the women behind your wife will be very practiced and will know exactly what to say or tell her what to say. You need an attorney who has seen it all in these cases.

I would pick up the Yellow Pages and look in the immigration attorney section for and attorney that has Russian interpreters on staff. If there are not any then make your pick from the ads. Go to this attorney and tell him/her (a man is usually more understyanding) your story. Then ask him what he thinks will happen. Listen to his stories. Then ask him his advice on who is the best attorney for defence in a DV trial in these types cases involving immigrant women. Here in Minnesota I was told it was Ed Kotzer. There are Ed Kotzers everywhere. Then get to this attorney ASAP and brief him about your story. You will need to prepare a written brief with the concise issues about your marriage and about the issues that maybe helpful to win your case. Also you might look for some character witnesses. You need to prepare in advance for this and not do as 90% of the guys do out there and wait to react (with the usual lack of time) to what the otherside throws at them.

Now is the time to worry about a DV charge and not so much your divorce settlement issues. The divorce settlement you have allot of time to address. The other very little.

Maxx  
  

[happiness]

Thanks again to everyone who responded.  Between dealing with the police and lawyers these past couple of days it's been rough.  I just broke the news to my family today that she won't be joining us for Christmas and they should return the presents they bought for her.  Reading all these posts helps me a lot to know that someone else has survived this ordeal and maybe down the road things will be better.

I started to rationalize this afternoon that maybe I was wrong.  Maybe I was paranoid and jumped to conclusions.  There was only one way to really know and that was to confront the dude that was f_cking my wife.

Some background: my RW took a job this past fall where she travels within a four-hour radius every week.  She normally has two days off per week and the rest of the time she stays in cheap motels.  So during normal conversation this past weekend, I asked her what days and where she was working this week (already knowing the answer).  She said she was working in a city about two hours away and would be staying in a motel.

In reality, she was working in a town about twenty minutes away, but I didn't know why she would lie about this.  So last night I saw her car in this town and setup a stakeout.  After leaving work, she went to her car but didn't drive away.  Instead, a white car pulled up behind her and she got her luggage from her car and got into his car.  I intended to follow them, but they did a U-turn in the parking lot and ended up with their headlights right on my car.  I was busted, so I turned down an alley to get away.

They pursued behind me but I quickly lost them.  They then doubled-back, she got out of his car and he drove off.  She drove off behind him.  I lost them, but when returning to my house I saw her at a well-lit public gas station.  That's when I confronted her.  She said she was just going to get coffee with him and that she was putting her laptop bag in his car.  I told her not to come to the house and if she did I would call the police.  She came and the police came and she took some stuff and left.

[William3rd]

too late to hide anything in most, if not all, jurisdictions. Everything is traceable. Each spouse is considered to be a steward of assets for the other spouse and it stretches back beyond the date of filing to encompass any time that might be spent in contemplation of divorce.

It is either community or not community. I dont think that will matter much; a short duration marriage has little to divide. Unfortunately, her engleesky vill vecomp not unnerstundable so she can show a need for support-her attorney will tell her that. I hate family law cases, especially with a foreign national involved.

Hey- talk to your attorney about the possibilities of annulment in your jurisdiction. Also, is your state a fault state or no fault?

[Jumper]

you posted this in october regarding the conditional green card and AOS

No, I'm not cutting a deal for marriage fraud but if I had to guess if she is totally committed to the marriage I would flip a coin to get the answer.  Sometimes I just really feel like a mule.  I guess the only way to find out is to wait for that laminated card to arrive in the mail...

and i am certainly not saying "i told you so" or trying to rub any salt in the wound in any way..

but i am curiuos if you guys are past the AOS yet,
(thats 2 years of conditional GC)
did she get her permanent resident GC?
 ..and it seems youve felt something was amiss for quite some time ?

I realize it doesnt make it any easier to deal with ,,
*shrugs*

and i wish you  a better New Year and a fresh beginning to happier times.

[happiness]

Tonight it was time to "sac up" as it might be called.  I didn't know who this dude was that she was f_cking and I might get my ass kicked (I'm 6'3" 175 lbs.) and he might be a big dude but I needed to look him in the eye and tell him how he has f_cked up my world.  I didn't think I would fight him, but I wasn't going to back down if he wanted to prove something.

So I waited in plain view in my car next to his car.  She got into her car and left work.  Other people got into their cars and left.  Only his car remained in the parking lot.  I didn't know if he had left with someone else with plans to come back in the morning to get his car or if he was waiting me out inside.  So I waited for about 30 minutes.

Then the state police arrived (two officers) and asked me what I was doing.  I explained the situation and told them I wanted a conversation with this man.  After a few minutes, he came out from the shadows and stood next to the one officer about thirty feet away while the other officer was standing next to me.  He was a Russian man, shorter than me with gray hair.  I would guess him to be about 45 years old.  He was a quivering, pitiful excuse for a man.

I shouted my questions:  What is your name?  Where do you live?  Are you having an affair with my wife?  Why did she get into your car last night?

He wouldn't tell me his name or where he lived.  He said he was scared and needed to get home to his kids. (I suspect he lives in a city two hours away)  The one thing he did answer was he said she got into his car because she was afraid of me.  He rambled on accusations that I had threaten to kill her, blah, blah, blah (all untrue).  I think the officer was sympathetic to my situation but he said that was all I was likely to get from him tonight and I should leave, which I did.  However, the officers checked my ID, writing down my address and phone number and they also checked his.  Now I (or my attorney) can get the police notes and I will learn the identity of my enemy, this pathetic little Russian sissy.  Then I can hire a private investigator to gather some concrete evidence of adultery.

She said they were going to get coffee.  He said she was afraid for her life.  Yet once my cover was blown and they knew their trist was discovered, he dropped her off at her car and left first.  If he was protecting her, don't you think he would wait for her car to leave first and then get her someplace safe (not letting her go back to home alone)?  And all that remains is the truth...

[Turboguy]

I know it hurts to go through things like this and when you are betrayed by someone you love it can feel really bad but I think you had better be careful.   That was not a wise move and you are setting yourself up for big trouble.

[happiness]

but i am curiuos if you guys are past the AOS yet,
(thats 2 years of conditional GC)
did she get her permanent resident GC?
 ..and it seems youve felt something was amiss for quite some time ?

She just got her conditional green card in October and yes something was definitely amiss since the beginning.  I rationalized so much.  What really opened my eyes was a phone call from an anonymous RW in July to tell me my wife was a cheating GCG.  This woman had some inside information about another matter that turned out to be credible but she didn't have names, dates or places for the cheating.  Around the end of our phone conversations, I started to doubt the sincerity of this RW, but later I confronted my RW and she admitted the truth about one matter and denied the cheating.  I continued to profess my love for my RW, even though the next month she created a list that went something like this:

What I want:
1) A good job
2) An apartment
3) A new car
4) A good lover

We started counseling and I thought maybe we could turn things around.  Still I treated her like a princess.  Then last month she created a profile on an agency web site using her maiden name and her location as back in Russia.  At first I wasn't sure if she had just created this or if it was an old page that this agency (bridesagency.com) had not cleaned up or maybe a scammer copied and was using.  So I signed up for a one month membership and sent her some emails.  I never got a reply, but I absolutely know they went to her email.  My guess is that she wanted to get back into the game and scam some poor fools.  She sure scammed me good.

[Jumper]

i feel for you, i really do..

but I needed to look him in the eye and tell him how he has f_cked up my world.

as understanably pissed as you may be at him,
 
this particular  man doesnt have much to do at all with your world , or your problems.

he's a low class individual for sleeping with a woman he knows is married,,

but your problems are your wife..
(although her list seems normal? as long as the aparment was with you, and the lover was you)

regardless -
harrassing this dude,, hiring a PI to prove thier adultery, or whatever , wont do anything at ALL to help you out.
and has a much greater chance of harming your case.

get ahold of your enmotions, face the fact that your marriage wasnt what you hoped,, and already knew was suspect...
 
if it wasnt him, it would have been somebody else, or it wiuld have just flooped on its own from her lack of real interest or commitment  in preserving it? 


my advice- protect yourself.
(and sulking around awaiting a confrontation with  her lover is not a good way )

forget about retaliation or retribution.. or revenge..

forget about the AOS ,
or her getting a GC..
she can easily get that , and regardless what info you hold the BCIS wont be interested or have the time to track down anything or anyone.. they just dont have the man power and it aint gonna happen. She's stateside and if she wants to stay she will.. get over it.

move on.
protect what you can.
get focused on something else in your life,,important things you consider fundemental and that you truly enjoy.
 and consider this whole mess already in the past with only the details to sweep up.

again i'm sorry to hear it,  and hope things get better.

[KenC]

Happiness,
Please tell me that you kept a copy of her new profile and the evidence that the emails went to her computer!  Forget about beating the Russian man's ass.  He will be in his own world of hurt when his wife finds out.  Personally, I would hire a PI to get all the dirt possible.  Even if you don't need it in court, you will need it for peace of mind.  (I divorced my ex for cheating so I do know of what I speak)
KenC