I must have lost my mind

[Fiorella]

[user=134]Photo Guy[/user] wrote:

Natalya,

Your invitiation to Moscow is ...greatly appreciated!
Personal introductions are also a good alternative, but how many people do I
know in the FSU? Larisa says she has mailed me her phone number.
I must wait. I must see how it goes with her in Kiev. If it fades away,
you'll see me in Moscow and/or elsewhere in the Fall. Doug

If you don't mind I would join your warm company for a cup of coffe.

[TheArrow]

[user=134]Photo Guy[/user] wrote:

Natalya,
When I started this search back in November, I did not know
how to do it. I surfed the net. I found the big three AGENCIES,
and other agencies.

Doug,

When I was in search a year ago, I didn't know ho to do it, too. I surfed the Net. I found A FEW DATING SITES. Saying honestly, I avoided AGENCIES. My intuition "told" me to avoid them all.

[TheArrow]

BC, I hope, you are not looking for a woman with a help of agency.

No Arrow.. I am well into the 3rd year happily married with my RU wife. No agencies, no writing and no intentions when we met.

[/quote]WOW. The only SMART and WISE MAN at this forum - YOU ARE!!! My respect to you and your wife.

[TheArrow]

[user=134]Photo Guy[/user] wrote:

Larisa says she has mailed me her phone number.
I must wait. I must see how it goes with her in Kiev. If it fades away,
you'll see me in Moscow and/or elsewhere in the Fall. Doug

It takes 20 days to deliver the postal mail from Moscow, Russia to Massachusetts, USA. This is just an example

[TheArrow]

Natalya,

Your invitiation to Moscow is ...greatly appreciated!
Personal introductions are also a good alternative, but how many people do I
know in the FSU? Larisa says she has mailed me her phone number.
I must wait. I must see how it goes with her in Kiev. If it fades away,
you'll see me in Moscow and/or elsewhere in the Fall. Doug

If you don't mind I would join your warm company for a cup of coffe. [/quote]Fiorella, you are always welcome. You know about that! Friendly hug from me

[Fiorella]

Larisa says she has mailed me her phone number.
I must wait. I must see how it goes with her in Kiev. If it fades away,
you'll see me in Moscow and/or elsewhere in the Fall. Doug

It takes 20 days to deliver the postal mail from Moscow, Russia to Massachusetts, USA. This is just an example[/quote]Once upon a time one letter from Sweden was going to me over 1 month.

[TheArrow]

Once upon a time one letter from Sweden was going to me over 1 month.

ohhhhhhh... 20 days or even more...... That's why I prefer E-MAILING

[Fiorella]

Why her-son-girls doesn't say his version?

[TheArrow]

I just wonder - why her-son-girls still doesn't say anything?

They are proud of themselves - they prefer to keep silence.  But Greg communicated with his woman via this agency. I think, they could explain all about their strange relationship.

[Bruno]

1) Do you know about new service for russian women that offer these agencies? They offer TO PAY TO WOMEN FOR EACH REPLAY TO MEN'S LETTER.  And PAY FOR EVERY NEW WOMAN THAT THEY WILL BRING AS A MEMBER TO AGENCY. How many these women are interested in creating serious relationships?

Not need a need a new agency... my actual sponsor is these from 1996... in these time, they have earn several $$$ with my help ( around 17000$ )...

Now, i have start again work with them... but they don't pay anymore... and now, i am not afraid to publish something against them... Galina was member from these site, below a copy of a letter send to her...

From: verify@missright.com
To: xxx@mail.ru
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 14:31:23 0000 (GMT)
Subject: D895 Your Pretty Woman Membership 

 Reference number: D895 
 
 Dear Galina , 
 
It is a pleasure to have you as a member of our club. I do hope that we will be successful in helping you find a suitable respectable man in the near future. 
 
From time to time we will contact you, just to remind you that you are still on our internet web site. 


This is important to us, and to you, because if you are still looking for a man, we want to keep you on the website. If you have found a man, obviously you no longer want your profile displayed. 
 
 Do not reply to this email. Please go to the web address below to confirm that you want to remain or be removed from the site: 
 
 www.aprettywoman.com/verify/index.cgi/1103898683-631905.61790482768355 
 
 You will be asked for a login and password, please use the following: 
 Login: a 
 Password: 6602 
 
 Remember, we are always looking for beautiful women to join our club, if you have any friends or relatives that may be interested please tell them to register at www.aprettywoman.com/girls or contact me at support@missright.com/ 
 
 Not only is it good for them, but we will pay you up to $20.00 for each girl you refer to us.

Sincerely,

Stephen Lang
www.aprettywoman.com
support@missright.com


First, it was difficult for Galina to be removed from these site... second, what to think about a site who give money for new woman... a easy way for scammer... 5 new girl week, 400$ month, a good monthly income in Ukraine...

Now, simple advice, for these who use my site, don't click the link to  aprettywoman... and if someone know a honest sponsor, inform me... if have search but i have not find one to trust until now...

[BC]

WOW. The only SMART and WISE MAN at this forum..

Thanks for making me blush Arrow but actually there are a few others with similar situations on this board. All those I know of I also consider very 'wise'. Myself?.. well.. I often have doubts

Greg's experience is a classic and my kudo's go to him for sharing his story with us. I'm sure he is a bit
'down'at the moment but hope he realizes how lucky he may actually be and is a wiser man today.

[Kevin]

Hey folks,

 I have been monitoring these posts all week, but I didn't want to post until I knew most of the facts. It is very difficult to stay neutral when you are investigations something that involves a claim against your own company.  As some of you have guess some facts are not posted so here is what I know so far and I still don't have all of the facts.

Greg and Tanya meet though my agency back in December during Greg visit to Kherson. Tanya had no prior meeting with any of our clients and wasn't known very well by our staff. Greg was the first client to meet Tanya and they decided to become engaged.  Once they became engaged Greg claims Tanya ask not to have the agency involved further in their relationship. Once Greg left Kherson Tanya and Greg communicated directly. Using the agency only for Gifts and advice. (This ended the agency responsibility for their letters and context of them).

Greg received a letter directly from Tanya and mistranslated the letter. (When using the free translation software sometimes the meaning isn't going to translate correctly as in this case)  Instead of a request for a new coat to come to America he translated it into (new coat or I will not come to America). This is where the problem started. Up to this point it appears the relationship was going good.  Greg posted on multiple list that Tanya was as scammer and should be blacklisted and ask that I blacklist her.  Of course we started an investigation at this point and ask for a copy of the letter and invited Tanya into the office to hear her side of story.  We also removed Tanya from the agency at this point. We received a copy of the letter from Greg and my wife translated it and we informed Greg that his translated was incorrect.  However, the damage had been done. While Tanya was in the office being ask about the letter she was receiving SMS message on her cell phone and showed the office staff the SMS messages and had the staff translate them for Her. (We are still working on verifying the sender). It included threats of blacklisting and name-calling. Tanya is an older women (pharmacist) and she didn't take well to the stress of what was going on. Keep in mind just a few days before she though she was getting married.   We have asked Tanya to bring to the office all of the letters that she has that were either insulting or threaten. During this time period Tanya did go to the hospital to be treated for Stress. (Verified by my office).

This brings up the second letter that was provided from Greg. I've only seen two of there letters and it hard to fully understand everything that happen As everyone has read it seem to be a partial response that includes a few items such as a Bill and we are still not sure of his involvement in this. Without a copy of all of the letters it is difficult to fully understand what is going on before, during and after.   When I read the letter I took into consideration that the lady who is writing has been insulted for a whole week with numerous internet postings, letters and SMS and isn't in the best of moods.  The letters did refer to Dollars and not Grivens as verified with a conversation with Tanya.  When we asked Tanya why she asks for money She said it was a joke and she didn't expect to receive it. However because I didn't consider it a joke it was enough to remove her permanently from my agency.  

As far as Tanya daughter involvement I have no facts or knowledge of how much she was involved. Other then the fact she helps her mother writes emails. 

HE/SAID / SHE SAID: Portion
Know we have the He Said, She Said situation.
Greg has stated:
1. He has a visa for both ladies.
2. He fired two office staff members for getting access to his computers and sending the insults and sms to Tanya.  It was not he but his office staff members.
3. Tanya should be blacklisted and return all of her gifts.

Tanya has stated.
1. Greg insulted her and causes her a lot of stress because of a mistranslated letter.
2. The request for Money was a joke
3. Greg had told her that he couldn't get her a visa because of a criminal background. (I have no ideal of the meaning of this comment from Tanya but was included in her complaint that she filed against Greg with the agency)

Current status:
I do not feel it was the agency fault that this happen because it happen after the client had left Kherson and was in dirrect contact with the lady and not though the agency. We had no control over direct communication between Greg and Tanya and shouldn't be held responcible for two adults actions.

Even though Greg might feel that I'm not on his side I do feel Greg is an honorable men and. I have been fighting for him though out this whole investigation. It was my decision to Remove Tanya even though my staff in Kherson is on Tanya side.   I have requested that Tanya provide the office with all letters and we are getting copies of the SMS that were sent to her from the local phone company that will include the sending email and IP address.  I have also refused the request from the office to reinstate her into the agency because of the last letter sent to Greg with the "money request".

I am sure there is more going on then even I am being told. So I limit my judgment to what I can see and read.

Conclusion:
This is one of the worst situations that I've seen so far. It isn't uncommon for a couple to have a misunderstanding and most of the time we can clarify it for both parties. In this case we have a couple that seem to like each other but because of a misunderstanding are now unable to resolve it with my help. Tanya refusal to continue the relationship makes it difficult to repair the damage already done. This is why I recommended that Greg should return to Kherson in person to resolve this issue. If Greg and Tanya had continue to use our translations service after they became engaged we would have been able to translate the letter correctly that cause this problem in the first place. However we do honor any request for one-to-one letter sending and most of the time recommends it once a couple becomes engaged.  Also if Greg had given me more time to translate the first letter and respond back to him before posting Tanya on the internet as a scammer and having the attacks against her started it would had turn out better. This is why it is so important when dealing with different cultures to be sure that the correct meaning is being understood.  My feeling on the reason this happen has given Greg the feeling that I am putting some of the blame on him. But I do not blame him because of the mistranslation. It just wasn't handle correctly. Unless there is more to the story that I am aware of that would justify such a quick classification against Tanya.  I also blame Tanya for not listening to the reason behind what started this problem and She should accept Greg attempt to resolve it. 

Blacklisting. Per our policy we have two forms of blacklisting. Our site http://www.khersongirls.com/blacklist requires a police report to be filed and the investigation to show a scam occurred. All of our ladies listed have Police records in Kherson. The second group is our internal blacklist. This requires a lady to violate are policies when using our agency. Because Tanya wasn't using our agency anymore she didn't violate our policies. However her last letter was enough to get her banned from our agency. (Joke or no joke).

Screening our ladies: I would love too, but it isn't possible for any agency to screen the ladies that join unless I develop the ability to read minds. The same goes for ladies clients meet on the street. . Other then to verify that the lady name, address and phone number is correct there is no way of going into the ladies background. The same goes for our clients. 

At this point there isn't much I can do other then to recommend to Greg to return to Kherson and speak to Tanya in person or to start the search for another lady.  I don't know how any other agency would handle this situation differently and I don't know of anything else I can do but to continue too gather the letters and documents from Tanya and Greg and hope to figure out what happen in more detail.

I hope this clarified the complaint a little better. We are still looking into this issue and because Greg has allowed the facts to be posted on this site and included me in the discusion. I wanted to post my current views on the subject.

Kevin Hayes 

[Elen]

Curiouser and curiouser!' :shock:cried Alice (she was so much surprised, that for the moment she quite forgot how to speak good English)

[Bruno]

Hello Kevin,

All become more clear now... what about your agency involved in these story, you have make a great work... several other agency have certainly no search the true... why use time for this when the two people involved was not more using the service of agency...

For me, it is clear now that the agency have nothing to make in these story...

Now, stay only two people, a man and a woman who was almost married and fight now like kat and dog...

OK, the basis of this is a bad translator... a misunderstanding... and the reaction of Greg was the bad one... in place of ask the lady for more explanation, he have attack... and the lady have make the same...

In all these story, i see only two adult who are like children and not ready to make a marriage... a marriage is not a easy work, and the life with someone two... same with people who speak the same language, some misunderstanding are possible... in so case, negociation is needed... a direct fight is not the solution...

What have happen is the best because so couple have not stay married long time...

Now, about scammer... no one are scammer, it is only a relation who have misluck... and who have lead to a fight...

Now, i think that Greg is not really a gentleman when he ask back is gift... the gift was used for seduce the woman... it was your choice to give it to her or not...

Greg, don't search a other wife now... you are not ready to marry someone... and don't put your misluck on other... assume it and learn from this...

And about your two staff members fired... how they have know the story with your lady... if yourself have say nothing to them about her...  maybe it is time to use some loggin and password on your computer... of maybe it is a other method for make your own error on the other...

And you say that you have visa for both ladies... explain me how it is possible... the child of 20 year is too old for a children visa... of maybe you have make two K1...

The reaction of the lady was bad... but on your side, i see too much strange things for trust you... and in all case, you was the first to attack...

[TheArrow]

Translations proved by prompt software.

 

I have questions.

Таня, Тани - is the same name. Tanya's health in Russian is здоровье Тани. This was a short lesson of Russian, sorry. Promt software couldn't translate these words.

And here are my questions.

Why does Tanya write about herself (about her health) as if she writes about another person's health? "The loving husband should care about health Тани"

Who is her loving husband? Greg? Does it mean when 2 people are engaged - they are married? I am familiar with Western traditions - engagement and marriage are DIFFERENT things. Being engaged doesn't mean being married. In general, engagement obliges to nothing if you decide to split.

To Khersongirls personally! The word "coat" has definite meaning. Read below, please:

coat [ ] 1. 1) пиджак, мундир, китель, куртка, пальто и т. п. (верхняя, особ. мужская, одежда) They never saw a poor man in a ragged coat inside a church. -- Они никогда не видели беднягу в поношенном пальто в церкви. tail coat -- фрак 2) мех, шерсть, оперение и т. п.; шкура, кожа ( растительный покров животных или птиц ) 3) кора, кожура, шелуха и т. п. ( наружный покров некоторых растений ) 4) слой, покров coat of snow -- снеговой покров the coat of varnish which surrounded every particle -- слой лака, который покрывал каждую частичку All external woodwork to receive three coats of paint. -- Все деревянные наружные части должны быть покрыты тремя слоями краски. 5) оболочка arachnoid coat -- паутинная оболочка ( мозга ) 6) облицовка, обшивка; грунт •• coat of arms -- гербовый щит, герб to dust a man's coat (for him) -- вздуть, отколотить кого-л. to take off one's coat -- приготовиться к драке ( ср. тж. coat 2) ) to take off one's coat to (the) work -- горячо взяться за работу to turn one's coat -- менять свои убеждения, взгляды; переходить на сторону противника - coat of mail 2. 1) одевать Syn: dress , clothe 2) покрывать ( краской, фольгой и т. п. ) the idea of coating ships with armour -- идея покрыть корабли броней

What word was before the word "coat" in her letter? ".....coat or I will not...." ?????? You must cite the phrase entirely here - so all could understand it.

I am not trying to be the barrister for Greg here? I am trying to understand your post. That's all. Sorry, but you did typos (misprints) in your post - "through" and "though" - and your post can be misundertood, too.

[Bruno]

Hello Arrow,

You can find the original letter in russian at http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/view_topic.php?id=342&forum_id=11&page=2

Greg have posted it... let's go now, you can make your analyse...

[TheArrow]

Hello Arrow,

You can find the original letter in russian at http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/view_topic.php?id=342&forum_id=11&page=2

Greg have posted it... let's go now, you can make your analyse...

1. Never knew you are Khersongirls. LOL

2. If you didn't understand what I posted - just ask instead of giving not a correct advice. They mentioned the word "coat" -  I mean ANOTHER letter. It was not posted here, baby!

[Bruno]

Sorry, it was only for the first part of your post...

and about :

"Who is her loving husband? Greg? Does it mean when 2 people are engaged - they are married? I am familiar with Western traditions - engagement and marriage are DIFFERENT things. Being engaged doesn't mean being married. In general, engagement obliges to nothing if you decide to split. "

The US K1 visa, where Greg was busy, is a fiance visa... the reason of so visa is not like several man think to test the lady... so visa is used for marry someone... it mean that Greg and these woman was almost married...

I think that a woman can understand the K1 like a future marriage... and for information, the word "fiance" is from French origine... by the old tradition, be fiance mean that you promise to marry the woman in the year... and if you break the promise, you need to pay some compensation to the woman of to the parents of woman... maybe we need to restore these old tradition... this can allow people to think a little more before make the fiance visa K1...

[wxman]

It is good to hear 2nd side of story now! Is there a way we can get Tanya to post on this forum? I would definitely like to hear her side of story. We have 2 parts, we now need the 3rd. So apparently she was being sent threatening messages and being called names, and also she did ask for $5000. the murky waters are becoming a little more clear, but without Tanya's side of story, we will not get a truly clear picture.  

[TheArrow]

The US K1 visa, where Greg was busy, is a fiance visa... the reason of so visa is not like several man think to test the lady... so visa is used for marry someone... it mean that Greg and these woman was almost married...

I think that a woman can understand the K1 like a future marriage... and for information, the word "fiance" is from French origine... by the old tradition, be fiance mean that you promise to marry the woman in the year... and if you break the promise, you need to pay some compensation to the woman of to the parents of woman... maybe we need to restore these old tradition... this can allow people to think a little more before make the fiance visa K1...

I looked for the information about The US K1 visa on the Net - K1 visa allows you to be in the States for 90 days. 90 days are given to you to make a decision - 1. to marry the man or 2. not to marry him. If you choose the 2nd - you just leave the States when 90 days are out or even earlier. If you choose the 1st - ... I think, there is no need in explanation of next steps...

While I was looking for K1 visa information my friend from UK called me and I asked him about engagement - he told me almost the same I have posted above.

[TheArrow]

It is good to hear 2nd side of story now! Is there a way we can get Tanya to post on this forum? I would definitely like to hear her side of story. We have 2 parts, we now need the 3rd. So apparently she was being sent threatening messages and being called names, and also she did ask for $5000. the murky waters are becoming a little more clear, but without Tanya's side of story, we will not get a truly clear picture.  

I would kike to hear her side, too. But I am not sure , she speaks English. If she uses Promt - the Professional translate will be needed then.  According to what I've read in Khersongirls's post - their English is hard a little to understand (maybe coz of I am not a native English-speaker).

[BC]

Consider RU/Ukr humor..

Considering they had a BIG translation program miscommunication over that darn coat or clothes or whatever she wanted to replace before she travelled to the US, I don't think she was "kidding" in the US sense but just being faciecous(tongue in cheek/ironic type humor) about the money.

Sort of like: "well you really screwed it up the last time time so try this one on for size..  If won't talk to you if you don't send me 5K for driving me to the nuthouse over your flubbering.."

thus the remark at the end i.e." make sure you use a certified translator for this one buddy.."

All of course not to say she wasn't royally p!ssed anyway at Greg..

[TheArrow]

Consider RU/Ukr humor..

Considering they had a BIG translation program miscommunication over that darn coat or clothes or whatever she wanted to replace before she travelled to the US, I don't think she was "kidding" in the US sense but just being faciecous(tongue in cheek/ironic type humor) about the money.

Sort of like: "well you really screwed it up the last time time so try this one on for size.. If won't talk to you if you don't send me 5K for driving me to the nuthouse over your flubbering.."

thus the remark at the end i.e." make sure you use a certified translator for this one buddy.."

All of course not to say she wasn't royally p!ssed anyway at Greg..

They prefer to use non-certified translators/simultaneous interpreters and silly PC translators intead of learning any foreign language. This topic starts to be boring, we are running in circles. Let them investigate their problem themselves.

 

[Bruno]

I looked for the information about The US K1 visa on the Net - K1 visa allows you to be in the States for 90 days. 90 days are given to you to make a decision - 1. to marry the man or 2. not to marry him. If you choose the 2nd - you just leave the States when 90 days are out or even earlier. If you choose the 1st - ... I think, there is no need in explanation of next steps...

While I was looking for K1 visa information my friend from UK called me and I asked him about engagement - he told me almost the same I have posted above.

From us gouvernent site ( in red ) :

Individuals who wish to travel to the United States in order to marry their U.S. citizen fiancé(e) require a K1 visa, which is valid for a single entry during the six months immediately following its issuance. The American citizen must file a K1 visa petition (form I-129F) with the Department of Homeland Security (DHS, previously INS) office that has jurisdiction over his or her place of residence in the United States. K1 visa petitions MAY NOT be filed at a U.S. Embassy or Consulate abroad--they can only be filed and processed in the United States. Once the petition is approved, it will be sent to the U.S. Embassy or Consulate located in the fiancé(e)'s place of residence abroad. The petition will be valid for four months following its approval, although its validity can be extended by a consular official. 

Applicants should fulfill the following requirements to qualify for the K1 visa:

1. Both the petitioner (the U.S. citizen) and the beneficiary (the foreign fiancé(e)) must be legally able and willing to conclude a valid marriage in the United States. 
2. The petitioner and beneficiary must have previously met in person within the past two years, unless the Department of Justice waives that requirement.
3. The beneficiary should bring the following documentation to their visa interview at the US Embassy:

... use the K1 like a try when you don't already wish to marry, is not the right way... several people use it like this... but it is not the primair function...

[TheArrow]

K1 visa CANNOT OBLIGE you to marry somebody.