How to juggle the WMVM (Write many visit Many)

[I/O]

Anyway, I/O, I'm guessing you've never had the displeasure of sitting in the departure lounge at SVO or KBP a week or two after a WOVO experience that went tits up within the first few hours, and for lack of a good backup plan you ended up blowing a week or two of vacation along with a few thousand dollars. It's not a pleasant feeling and the 10-hour return flight is the final slap in the face.

I'm not sure what you mean by an "American approach" - do you refer to a strategy that is methodical, efficient, yet decidedly un-romantic, such as WMVM?

Two points here. 1) Yes I have had that experience and I can tell you to is a hell of a lot further home for me than 10 hours.  Try 26 hours plus transfers plus 2 hours drive from the Airport when I arrive in Au.(Two days altogether) The exact reason it did go tits up was because I did have the backup plan as some have outlined. 

I was reasonably hopeful with the main contact so to say and had a couple of other remote contacts.  When I realised there was not anything long term with the first, after we had spent several days together and were having a great time, I mean great time together, but we both knew and agreed the future was limited, I decided to cut that short and pursue other options which were ultimately a waste of time. That was where things went wrong, because eventually I more or less ran out of ideas and would have been far better enjoying the good company of the first lady until the end of the trip.  Yes if she had been a b!tch it might have been different, but she was fun to be with so I learnt something from that experience.  Back a good horse, maybe not ultimately the right horse, but a good one and see it through to the end of the race.

My reference to an "Americanised Approach" was directed at the "Bulk Dating" or yes write many, visit many approach.  Methodical ? Bullsh!t..!!  Shot gun theory which I agree can work, but it ain't methodical.  Un-romantic, yes, but that is personal choice.  Efficient?? Show me..!!  Efficiency is achieving the maximum result with the minimum input.  I guess if you want a dating tour then, yes for sure but if you are looking for a lifetime partner.....efficient?? How so..??  Results.....some, certainly but a very long way from efficiency.

BTW I am not suggesting we Aussies are doing it any better or for that matter differently as is being exampled by a contributer to this thread.

Several things are appearing here as time goes along and not least of these seems to me to be the, "Hmmmm I think I might look abroad, wow here is all these lovely girls, I write and she responds, wow I better jump on a plane and get my arse over there, hmmm I might as well meet a few while I am there"  approach.  Nothing much methodical about that. 

Another matter which has been brought out by an experienced agent is this. The Russian girl will say it's ok for a foreign man to visit several because he is travelling  so far, but it is not ok for a Russian man to do this.  GUYS!!!!!!!  How hard do you need to be bashed....? How many times have you been told to listen to what the woman means, NOT necessarily what she says...!!!  What does any women / man set their standards by? The thing they are familiar with..!!  In other words, her measuring device here is the Russian man and the foriegn man's visting several is tolerable but not her desired taste.  Sorry guys, but I lived with a woman long enough to learn to read between the lines.

I have posted the thoughts of 4 Russian ladies, in their own words in an earlier post.  No point if you want to win in flogging your idea into someone else.  Learn what they really want and adapt your style to give you the best opportunity to win. Certainly some sort of backup plan may have it's uses, but to focus on that reeks of the walking through the candy lane of the supermarket mentality, which if you go back and read carefully the thoughts of the Russian women I discussed this with yesterday, you will see that they can spot this from a mile away and will play the game to suit them.

Yeah, sure they'll meet you for a date and let you pay for the nice meal and enjoy your company and the next one will do the same if you are silly enough and wealthy enough to keep doing it.  Read what they said.  "Lxxx had nothing to lose."   "If he wants a toy to have dinner with, Lxxx will treat him as a toy to pay for her nice dinner in a nice setting, why not?"

Another thing guys should understand is that the western man is not necessarily mannor from heaven for the Russian women.  Don't come into this bullsh!t that all Russian men are Vodka Drinking, Dope Smoking losers who bed the neighbours daughter at the drop of a hat.  Most of you have no doubt heard the ridiculous steryotype quoted in the East that all Americans are "Fat and or Stupid".  Has about the same amount of factual substance as the perception of the Russian male loser.  Very limited.

Probably many here will consider I am being plain "Pig Headed" about this, but the general consensus of opinion on this site is, thus far, very one sided and I would very much like to see a balance for the new commer to develop a broader understanding from.  BTW guys, try telling my parents who have been married happily for 49 years that you can't know each other from letters.  They never met, although they did see each other once for a few seconds from a distance without either knowing the other had seen them.  My father did his homework and wrote a letter, they wrote letters for 12 months before meeting.  Both will now tell you that they learnt more about each other in those letters than they did in the first 10 years of marriage.  What's the moral?  Letter romances are nothing new, just a bit faster.  Worth thinking about........

I/O who continues to enjoy where this thread is heading, but probably should STFU...

[vwrw]

I/O,
First of all I want to say is I am glad with you appeared on RWD because you are one of the folks who prefer (so as they are able) to do needed circumstances, not wait for them. You remind me a tall man who tries to explain a short man that the short man does not need a chair to take an apple from a tree only because he (tall man) does not need the chair for taking the apple. You said “one should listen to what the woman means, NOT necessarily what she says...!!!” I am agreed with you. But how many men are able to see what the woman means if even the woman often does not understand herself? 

From Lxxx:
"If he wants a toy to have dinner with, Lxxx will treat him as a toy to pay for her nice dinner in a nice setting, why not?"
I/O, pay attention, who makes Lxxx to be toy? Is it man? No, he does not. He just looks for special woman to share his life with. She makes herself to be toy. She had choice to think he wants a special woman. As a result she would try to be the special woman but she preferred to think he wants toy.     

A conclusion: if woman does not want men to consider her to be toy (meat) she should not act like she is toy (meat).

[CaptB]

The problem when this debate comes up is that some folks are daters who can only date one woman at a time (I've never had a problem with that).......and some guys are comfortable with dating several women at a time. These are not relationships......but only searching for someone to have a relationship with. Both men an women are found in both categories. The same guy who only dates "one" at a time.......has no problem going to a "party"...........or a "church social".............and introducing himself to "several" women. We are not talking about "relationships here.........they hav'nt formed yet. I don't have a problem that will only consider making initial contact with only one woman at a time........to each........his own. I do have a problem when those same folks criticise others with terms like "disrepect".......and treating women in a "negative" manner because they choose to meet more than one woman. I met too many very nice women in Tver who would "never" consider meeting just one man.......when they had the opportunity to meet several. We are talking about "meeting".......not having "relationships"............several people.

I don't really care how one chooses to go about this method.......to each his own. I do take offense when WOVO folks criticize others (on moral grounds????) for choosing to have.......a "choice". As one poster said.......you don't know what it is like......to go to all the time (and yes expense).......only to have it "evaporate" in a few hours.......because your "perceived" (virtual) chemistry..........did not exist. It is easy to be smug.......when things did work out for an individual. The odds are higher that this method will fail the first time. For those who it worked for......congratulations.


Capt B

[KenC]

I think the old way makes more sense, where you
hang out with many different women, discover exactly what you want in
a woman, and with the numbers game, eventually find that appropriate gal.

From a logistical standpoint, meeting many women in the FSU makes a lot
of sense. I recommend that protocol for those who are able to handle it.

Like others have said, you juggle them by being honest with them.
If they don't ask, don't tell.  The juggling rules are very vague. Some women
will wonder why you haven't phoned them in a couple of days, and others
will be angry when you tell them you are busy with another woman.
(society's stigma)  Often, the 'right' woman will be the person who
handles the chaos and unpredictablilty of Transnational Dating. Those types
are more grounded and more fllexible, ...but sometimes more desperate.
 

Doug,
I agree with this approach.  (However it is much different from what the experiences you have shared with us previously )

I/O,
A couple of points, if you please.  When 4 women that are friends and or relatives give you an opinion it is usually the same opinion, so please do not hang your hat on your feedback like it is some form of Imperial evidence gathered by scientific research, OK?

Call it "methodical" or call it a "shot gun" approach, it is no matter, but meeting many RW in the introductory phase of this process is just good ol common sense. (Key word here is "introductory")  No matter how well you write or communicate previous to meeting, it is better to narrow the field after face to face meetings.  There just is too little , if any, downside to waiting until after meeting to get deeper into a  relationship.

The first RW I met in Russia was my now wife of 7+ years.  She was everything and more than I ever dreamed of having as my wife.  Would things have turned out the same for us if I had not gone on the meet other RW?  Maybe, maybe not.  By meeting other RW, I did get a small taste of other RW there by making my choice of her even clearer in my mind. I had no fear of being captured by her Russian allure because she stood out head and shoulders above the rest.  Secondly, it made her understand that I too had other options.
KenC

[KenC]

Capt B,
Right on!  It all depends upon the depth of the relationship, if there is even a releationship at all, whether it is moral or not to meet others.  I met maybe 8 other women when I was in Tver after I met Lena.  Everyone was cool with it.  All the women I met were nice and I even took a few to dinner.  Did I have a "relationship" with these women?  Of course not, because I didn't even know them yet.  Our meetings and even the dinners were a "get to know you" introduction to each other.  With Lena, it was the very early stages of developing a real relationship as opposed to a virtual relationship that we had prior to meeting face to face.

I think that it is the predetermined goal of marriage that skews everyone's thinking here.  No one would bat an eye at a man taking 8 different women out on a first date over a period of time at their home town.  That would be considered "playing the field" and as long as there are no one being misled, it would be considered completely acceptable. (Now 8 women over a period of two days would raise an eyebrow though!)  But think of it as though things are just happening in a more compressed time schedule.

How anyone could think that knowing a woman a little bit better than what can be garnered through emails before passing judgment that she is unacceptable dating material is a bad idea, quite honestly baffles me.  Narrowing the field after meeting multiple women face to face makes more sense to me.  You have significantly more solid data available to make such an important decision.
KenC

[I/O]

From Lxxx:
"If he wants a toy to have dinner with, Lxxx will treat him as a toy to pay for her nice dinner in a nice setting, why not?"
I/O, pay attention, who makes Lxxx to be toy? Is it man? No, he does not. He just looks for special woman to share his life with. She makes herself to be toy. She had choice to think he wants a special woman. As a result she would try to be the special woman but she preferred to think he wants toy.     
A conclusion: if woman does not want men to consider her to be toy (meat) she should not act like she is toy (meat).

VWRW Probably as always, it is difficult to explain the background to this comment from Lxxx in a few short sentences here and as exampled, it is difficult to fully appreciate the surroundings of the particular incident and therefore understand it.

This man was not seriously looking for anyone in particular, he was as Lxxx knew very well, because her friend is a secratary for the agent who arranged the meeting, simply touring through her city and had in fact not planned to meet anyone, but claimed that Lxxx had been a person he had been writing too.  She was not, and the chief of the agency knew this also.  Who was at fault here is hard to guess, but I think first and formost the agent was the problem.  The man was little more than a tourist and was insistent to meet Lxxx.  At first she refused, then upon persistent phone calls from the agency finally agreed to have dinner with the man.

What did she have to lose? nothing?  So yes, she allowed herself to be used as a toy, because she knew very well that this particular man only saw her as another piece of merchandise in a shop window. To be inspected, examined and probably discarded.  However she achieved HER objective which was to practice her English with this man and be treated to a nice dinner.  Is she a user?  Yes certainly in this situation she was. Which goes to demonstate the point I have been trying to get across thoughout, that is, if you go to be a "Walk Past Inspector" expect to be treated the same way and it will be often (Not always) difficult to develop anything much more serious from that type of basis.

The girls who have spoken to me yesterday have catorgorically stated this.  No if's, not but's, no maybe's. Period.  As I said in the post with the girl's remarks, for those who didn't read it, they are friends and from the same demographic, so their opinions are likely to be similar, thus not entirely reprasentative of all.  Posting those comments is no absolute science in and of itself, but thus far most have speculated and I, at least put some actual evidence forward.

I admit to laughing loudly at the remark, "if the woman does not understand herself".  Isn't this what we men have been complaining about for the last 2000 years.

It is a matter of personal choice at the end of the day, and from my experience, having done it both ways, I don't advise anyone to go the multi date way.  But having said that, Richard made a remark earlier which is in line with what I think is a fair and honest direction without puting yourself in a position of having to compromise your own integrity.  That is, concerntrate on one person and then perhaps have a few distant contacts who are not expecting anything specific from you as a possible back up. 

I hear continued remarks regarding the "Odds of success".  This seems to refer to the gamble aspect of going to another country to meet another person/s.  Sorry guys, but I don't gamble, yes I take calculated risks and I do my homework so far as is possible before I actually take that risk. I therefore don't have the time to do my homework correctly with several ladies at one time and I seriously doubt most people have the time either, so they do the simple thing, get on a plane with a few meetings set up and hope something might work out.  That is gambling the price of the plane ticket at least.

Again, I see the "American / Australian" style dating language comming into this which is fine and I don't have a problem with that in and of itself, but please, please don't complain if you go into another country and it perhaps does NOT work.

As for the economics....hmmmmmmm far from convincing.  If you want to buy meals in quality places continually, and live in hotels, then fine, because this is largely what you will do whilst on a program of meeting many on one trip. I would be very happy to compare actual costs on and end to end basis with someone who has succeeded on the write many vist many program after I am married.  Would be a very interesting exercise, but frankly, the cost is not of great importance in my opinion.

As yet, nobody has come back with any information regarding how many here have searched far from, say Kiev, Minsk, Moscow, St Petersburg areas.  I am very interested about this, because I have noticed a great difference in the attitude of, for example, the Siberian (Generally speaking) to say the Moscovites (Generally Speaking)

The consensus of opinion here is certainly left me standing "One Out" on this one and I am quite happy to do that, because most importantly, it does provide another perspective for the newbie.  Goodness...!!!  I wish I could have read something like this thread before I started the process. I have probably made more mistakes than the collective sum of the other members of this site.

A most enjoyable thread to commence the new year.......!!! Sorry guys, but I sensed an opportunity when I saw the initial post and I wasn't about to miss it.  One you miss is one you never catch up on. (Can be applied to dates also)

I/O who laughs at the notion of "Common Sense" because if it was common, most would have it and they don't.
 

[Rvrwind]

This man was not seriously looking for anyone in particular, he was as Lxxx knew very well, because her friend is a secratary for the agent who arranged the meeting, simply touring through her city and had in fact not planned to meet anyone, but claimed that Lxxx had been a person he had been writing too.  She was not, and the chief of the agency knew this also.  Who was at fault here is hard to guess, but I think first and formost the agent was the problem.  The man was little more than a tourist and was insistent to meet Lxxx.  At first she refused, then upon persistent phone calls from the agency finally agreed to have dinner with the man.

As you yourself eluded to in this paragraph, Lxxx new beforhad the intentions & the character of this man. Any agent that would force a woman into this situation is in my opinion an a$$. In this situation from my prespective, I would have told the guy flat out she doesn't want to meet you, end of conversation, live with it.
Had she had other information beforehand, for example that he was a good & decent man looking for the perfect woman to fit into his life, her attitude going into it may well have been much different. In this situation the man himself is at fault, for his attitude & method he has chosen are barriers from the jump. The agent is also at fault for not considering the womans feelings & only worrying about lost $'s.
But many men do not come here with that mentality, yes, some do. I however, am quick to point that out where a less than reputable agent may not. In fact I will give an example of a recent circumstance that gave me pause & do to my reply I lost a client, so be it.
I recieved an email from a fellow who wanted to write & eventually meet one of our ladies. No problem there. He was willing to send a profile but catagorically refused to send pictures. Big problem there. His excuse was he had signed some agreement with his employer that he could not send pics over the internet or somesuch bullpucky. Well unless your a spy, I don't see it as a problem. I told him that the lady, in fact any real serious lady, is not going to write to him without seeing a picture or two. A scammer will but a real lady will not. He then said well what if I just show up. To this I replied that the usual practise is we tell them you are here & interested & they come to the office & check out your pics & profile & then decide. I also told him without pics I will not guarratee anything. Should she refuse to meet, end of story & we will not be held accountable. We can ask but I will not force her to meet with anybody.
I'm pretty sure that the agent you brought up wouldn't care, but would have forced the lady to meet, I however will not. That is where the services of a reputable & reliable agent are needed, not some 'fly by night crook'.
I treat the men & women in my agency equally. Women in our agency pay to join, it is not free, therefore they are entitled to the same service & respect as the men. It also allows us to know they are serious in their search, women don't pay to play.
There are many different approaches to this endeavour & all have had success to one extent or another. But when you are playing the odds it only makes sense to have those odds in your favour & the suggestion I made earlier in this thread, to me seems the best way to do that without offending anybodies sensitivities, but yet still allow the men & women an easy out should the #1 choice fail.

[I/O]

Rvrwind, knowing Lxxx as I do, and the whole situation to some extent, she is quite capable of taking care of herself and I don't say she is all "Cherry Pie" in this example.  She used a fool for a fools use.  She copped a fair "Spray" from mine and her other friends for even doing what she did.  They consider and she does also to some extent that she allowed herself to drop her normal standards for the sake of a couple of hours free English tuition and a fancy meal in a new restaraunt which she had been curious about for some time.  All of that is by the by, but it examples to me that the guy was certainly setting himself up to be shafted and had she been a different type, he may well have been taken on the shopping march or worse.

I am totally baffled as to why any guy would try on an agent and then refuse to provide photos. I can understand if someone had something to hide and he was making direct contact but how on earth he expected to get something past an agent and then still see the girl is beyond me.  Kind of like saying, "Trust me, I am a used car salesperson without a registered business".

I think the debate about any, many, one, some or all has been flogged enough, but regardless, there must be a level of honesty or at least disclosure from the get go or, I suspect the whole deal will go nowhere regardless of methodology.

I may be pushing a pointless question regarding this particular topic, however,  I do remain curious as to how many here have searched or are searching or are involved with someone outside the hmmmmmmm western part of Russia. (Poor choice of geographical definition..!!)

I/O

[Rvrwind]

I may be pushing a pointless question regarding this particular topic, however,  I do remain curious as to how many here have searched or are searching or are involved with someone outside the hmmmmmmm western part of Russia. (Poor choice of geographical definition..!!)

I know of several actully but they are not highly active members. I also know of a couple that have moved here from their home countries to live n places like Ufa & Ekterinburg. They too are not very active posters but they do exsist.

[swindoom]

[I may be pushing a pointless question regarding this particular topic, however,  I do remain curious as to how many here have searched or are searching or are involved with someone outside the hmmmmmmm western part of Russia. (Poor choice of geographical definition..!!)

I/O

My successful search took me to Omsk in Western Siberia, for some reason I decided not to look in Moscow or St. Petes.

[I/O]

My successful search took me to Omsk in Western Siberia, for some reason I decided not to look in Moscow or St. Petes.

Same here. I have wondered why.  However I guess Omsk found me rather than me finding Omsk.

I/O

[Michelangelo]

Anyway, I/O, I'm guessing you've never had the displeasure of sitting in the departure lounge at SVO or KBP a week or two after a WOVO experience that went tits up within the first few hours, and for lack of a good backup plan you ended up blowing a week or two of vacation along with a few thousand dollars. It's not a pleasant feeling and the 10-hour return flight is the final slap in the face.

I/0 ~  What Groove writes is the rule, not the exception.   I too have had his experience~multiple times.  You can write one girl for months and go visit her only, only to discover that in person she is not the wonderful pen pal you were writing to.

After having this happen a few times, I changed my strategy and started meeting multiple girls on trips.  From the advantage of numbers of meetings, I finally met the right girl for me.

It's true that some guys are lucky and meet the right girl after only writing and visiting her.  But that is the exception, not the rule.

Michelangelo~ who believes that time and money dictates an approach that involves the man meeting multiple girls on an FSU trip.

[vwrw]

From I/O
This man was not seriously looking for anyone in particular, he was as Lxxx knew very well, because her friend is a secratary for the agent who arranged the meeting, simply touring through her city and had in fact not planned to meet anyone, but claimed that Lxxx had been a person he had been writing too.  She was not, and the chief of the agency knew this also.  Who was at fault here is hard to guess, but I think first and for most the agent was the problem.  The man was little more than a tourist and was insistent to meet Lxxx.  At first she refused, then upon persistent phone calls from the agency finally agreed to have dinner with the man.
What did she have to lose? nothing?  So yes, she allowed herself to be used as a toy, because she knew very well that this particular man only saw her as another piece of merchandise in a shop window. To be inspected, examined and probably discarded.  However she achieved HER objective which was to practice her English with this man and be treated to a nice dinner.  Is she a user?  Yes certainly in this situation she was. Which goes to demonstate the point I have been trying to get across throughout, that is, if you go to be a "Walk Past Inspector" expect to be treated the same way and it will be often (Not always) difficult to develop anything much more serious from that type of basis.

I/O,
I was looking for my man for two year. I had met different men. I had met two guys who were similar as you described the man. During meetings with each of them I also achieved MY goal which was to understand who they are; what they want… in particular form the woman they could consider special one. They were GREAT guys! They both were delighted with RW and UW. Both were blessed with their successful life and wanted to share it with woman, but THE RIGHT WOMAN not just any woman. Otherwise they could be quite happy to be alone and enjoy their own company. During I spent my time with them I had NEVER felt to be toy or meat. On the contrary I felt me to be very special, similar as a man feels when a very beautiful woman with a high intellect begins to fall in love with him. Why I am not with one of them? They both very wanted to have children in future. I did not.
Frankly speaking they really came in Russia to inspect, examine women with a huge hope to find The RIGHT ONE (to their mind). Did they inspect, examine me? No, they did not. So as they were very busy with helping me to inspect, examine them.     
A conclusion: each of us achieves what we wish for.
And a man does not need to feel guilty in front of such LxxxS so as he gives them what they want… to practice their English and to have nice dinners.

My man was looking for me everywhere in Russia, Ukraine and found me in Barnaul (Siberia)

[swindoom]

You can write one girl for months and go visit her only, only to discover that in person she is not the wonderful pen pal you were writing to.

If you are going to do a WOVO then you should aim to visit as soon as possible to determine if the correspondence is worth continuing. Living in the UK/EU is a big advantage as travelling is cheaper and less time consuming. I myself within 4 weeks of starting correspondence ended up in Omsk, treating it as a weekend break visiting a new city/country/culture, meeting a good woman was just a bonus.

[Photo Guy]

KenC wrote:
Doug,
I agree with this approach.  (However it is much different from what the experiences you have shared with us previously Roll Eyes)

I have learned a lot since first travelling to Kiev in April '05. I agree with many of I/O's ideas about this. So it isn't a black and white situation- For my first trip, I was all excited about meeting Larisa. I was 'psyched'. I was eager to look into her eyes and see if she was as good as I thought she was. In that state of mind, dating mulitple women in Kiev would've been a mistake for me. Meeting other women would've been too much of a diversion.

If you can date many women in the span of a week or two, more power to you. For myself, I prefer an approach where I get all fired-up about one woman, and then she senses this energy and is impressed by it. If I remain unfocused, mulling over my choices, I am less successful seducing a woman and making any one of them feel 'special'.

About the benefits of writing letters/emails.  As I've said before, you can learn a lot.
Is she religious? What are her favorite books? Would she rather go to a soccer match or an art museum? What her goals and expectations?  It baffles me when people say letter writing is worthless. ..letter writing can be a very romantic endeavor.

Before you get all excited about a particular RW, it makes total sense to meet many different women, but that first or second woman may affect you in a way where you want to give her your TOTAL attention. The odds are exactly the same that you will meet her in the first few, as the last few. RW #2 could be the 'one' or #32 may be the one. If you are perceptive, you will stop meeting women immediately after finding that 'one'. That's one scenario. Another valid scenario has you 'accumulating' a few good women. That happens when the 'one' for you is not so obvious. The right woman might happen to be a shy introvert, who does not reveal herself duing the first date, or even the first two weeks.
So there are a number of very different scenarios with valid protocols.

There are guys who are in their forties or fifties who do not have a clue about what type of woman they are looking for. Let's face it, for that person even the perfect dating protocol will probably result in a bad love connection, a bad marriage.

[Bruce]

PG

The point which jumped out at me when I read your post above was this particular sentence:

"If I remain unfocused, mulling over my choices, I am less successful seducing a woman and making any one of them feel 'special'."

I think you would be better off going over, meeting many women and deciding which ones to correspond with for a potential future visit.  There would be no time table other then your mutual decisions this way.  Then you would be able to go back and get to know one, two or three women (if you are really having a hard time making up your mind, though most men would find one for a future visit) better the second trip with much less pressure.  You may meet absolutely nobody worth corresponding with for a potential future visit or you may get lucky.  It may take three, four or more trips until you find a women who makes it to your potential wife list depending upon how picky you are.  If I were you I would look at the way to go about it as not one trip, but two at the very least ie. one to find and second to confirm................with one more trip to confirm.  Some guys will do it on two, others with more, but by all means do not look at it as a write some letters, go over and impress so and so....................no way. 

Sure letters prior to meeting can be extremely beneficial.  They give you ground to stand on.  However, letter writing more often leads to fantasy and disillusion.  Trust me, you will be way better off in the long run meeting the girl early then later.  If you need to write, call to confirm the girls you are writing are real prior to going over.  If possible stick with girls who have at least perfunctory English skills.  Write a general introduction letter, get a reply and if it is satisfactorily in the ball park get on the plane already and meet her as well as others who strike your fancy. 

One thing that bothers me is that you have to look out for number one.  The women have to make you feel special.  Its not all about catering to them.  You are the one travelling to meet them yes, but it is a two way street at the very least. 
 

[Photo Guy]

Thanks Bruce,

On my last trip I met Larisa and also dated two other women.
I am still hung-up on Larisa, so I am now in a kind of Limbo/standbye mode.

I am also still phoning and corresponding with a woman I dated
on that trip. It may turn into something serious - we'll see.
Her fluent English makes it easier, but 'who she is' is the
ultimate factor. I'll see what happens on my next trip in June.
That is many months from now, so we'll see if we are still
interested in each other at that time.

For me (and maybe some other guys) the best approach would be
to spend a month in the FSU. I'd like to hang out, date about one
woman per day, and ideally find a woman to spend a lot of time with,
without rushing the process.
My two trips were not long enough...

[Son of Clyde]

Your question regarding how to juggle visiting several women without offending anyone or all.  My answer if I could have given it to you before you left would have been an emphatic. DON'T DO IT...!!

My sentiments exactly. I have enough problems juggling my own itinerary. Imagine traveling back and forth between airports or train stations and the lady you have been with wants to see you off at the station. I think it is in bad taste to go on to the next woman unless you are honest to the woman you have just spent time with. All of my trips were to visit one person. If you are scammed or stood up by the woman then it is a different story. I think the key is to be sensible.

[I/O]

Why I am not with one of them? They both very wanted to have children in future. I did not.
My man was looking for me everywhere in Russia, Ukraine and found me in Barnaul (Siberia)

VWRW I am so pleased to see that at least some men are prepared to travel into the further parts of Russian and Siberia to find their "Someone Special" because I have noticed, understandably, but I think unfortunately, many seem to prefer to remain within the Kiev/Moscow/Minsk/St Petersburg type areas because, I suspect of percieved accesssability.  I some times think they sell themselves short by doing this.  However in saying that I am not suggesting there is not fine woman in these areas.

The second point is regarding the fact that these men you met were not suitable because they wanted children and you did not.  I can only assume that you had no contact with them prior to meeting.  If you did, I am simply staggered that they would have arrived to vist you without having discussed this long before. Words fail me. :hairraising: :hairraising: :noidea: :noidea: :hairraising: :hairraising:

What on earth do people write, read or understand about profile information? Franky, my view is that if someone is travelling to another country to meet another and understands that this person does or does not want something as important as future children and they have the opposite view, then it is simply a "Dating" exercise which is basically a waste of time and money.  If they have not made the effort to discover something as basic as views on future children prior to meeting, then that is simply ridiculous. 

At the end of the day, this debate, or the ethos with which each person will conduct their own search comes down to the difference between "Dating" and or specifically looking for a lifetime partner.  I have no doubt that plenty of people live within a close enough proximity of Russia and the FSU and or can afford the time to pursue a "Dating" trip.  From my geography it is not practical and in fact is of no interest to me anyway. 

As for the people who completely discount the value of letters, I would simply say that all are different, but I would suggest if you wish to save yourself some time, expense and maybe heartache, learn to read and learn to write.  If is not difficult.

I/O who was probably the worst English and Essay student in his class at school.

[jb]

I am so pleased to see that at least some men are prepared to travel into the further parts of Russian and Siberia to find their "Someone Special" because I have noticed, understandably, but I think unfortunately, many seem to prefer to remain within the Kiev/Moscow/Minsk/St Petersburg type areas because, I suspect of perceived accessibility.

I corrected your spelling.....

I/O,  I've been mostly reading lately, and I appreciate your picking up the slack,,, but this is total BS.  I can stand some disrespect of Moscow women now and then, hey~! It's a personal choice. But, please,,, stop talking about that which you know nothing about.  Moscow women are a bit above the average, therefore it takes a bit above average man to successfully court a Moscow woman.  If you are not up to the task, admit it and move on to the small towns, but don't sit there and say bad things about Moscow women just because you are not up for the courtship of a more sophisticated woman.  It's your shortcoming, not theirs.  For your general fund of information, there are probably more single women in the three cities you mention, (Moscow, St. Pete, and Kiev), than in all the rest of the FSU put together.

I've traveled to the far east as far as Vladivostok, several times, and nothing compares to the women of Moscow,,, but then, I like a woman with a little on the ball.

[vwrw]

I/O,
I met the men through an agency the same way as Lxxx did. We never wrote letters each other before meeting.

JB, I know probably you will not believe but I happy to see you came back without waiting for month!!! I missed you. Please, do not disappear,okay?

[I/O]

I corrected your spelling.....

I/O,  I've been mostly reading lately, and I appreciate your picking up the slack,,, but this is total BS.  I can stand some disrespect of Moscow women now and then, hey~! It's a personal choice. But, please,,, stop talking about that which you know nothing about.  Moscow women are a bit above the average, therefore it takes a bit above average man to successfully court a Moscow woman.  If you are not up to the task, admit it and move on to the small towns, but don't sit there and say bad things about Moscow women just because you are not up for the courtship of a more sophisticated woman.  It's your shortcoming, not theirs.  For your general fund of information, there are probably more single women in the three cities you mention, (Moscow, St. Pete, and Kiev), than in all the rest of the FSU put together.

I've traveled to the far east as far as Vladivostok, several times, and nothing compares to the women of Moscow,,, but then, I like a woman with a little on the ball.

Please don't display YOUR ignorance and, worse, lack of ability to read, even if you are an excellent speller. Please show me where or when I was critical of Moscow, Kiev or other women from the bigger cities?  Your second display of ignorance is assuming you know who, where and when I have been involved with.  You havn't a clue.  The third display of total ignorance is to state that I know nothing about them. In fact two of my closest Russian friends are ladies from Moscow.

Your ignorance, arrogance and sheer pomposity is astounding and laughable at best.  You are certainly, if your post here is indicative, something other than average, but I doubt that to be above.  I should hope that your comments were made from a total lack of ability to understand what was written rather than plain supidity.

I/O who is often totaly ammused by ridiculous statements which have no factual basis whatsoever.

[William3rd]

To quote Rodney King. . .  Cant we all just get along?

The bickering that went on was stupid and counterproductive. And none of you guys (emphasis on NONE) came out smelling so hot.

Why dont you all just get along and start the new year off without launching personal attacks on each other?

I also think it is rather presumptuous to ask an old veteran to leave the site; that is strictly within the purview of Dan. . . . .

[Admin]

David,

I removed your post as I saw it as pure flamebait.

I/O - please meet jb. As you have probably read, jb is the most prolific poster at RWD and has been integral in our board's growth since the beginning. He is opinionated and blunt, and sometimes we (he and I) have crossed swords over the sometime personal nature of his responses. I have also, like most, learned to appreciate his wisdom and insights and to look beyond the delivery - at least, most of the time.

jb, I think I/O has, in a very short time, contributed FAR more than merely "picking up the slack" - I see someone who possesses a lot of experience and is willing to share that, and is often humorous and well-written (even if not in the post you cited).

I/O, you recall in one of your early posts you observed that RWD has some pretty strong personalities - well, in jb you have probably come across one of the strongest. (No offense to jinx and others who are also known for their strong opinions).

I hope you guys are able to strike a harmonic, as RWD can benefit by BOTH your active participation.

- Dan

[jinx13]

 William 3rd,

  I agree with you, bickering is pointless, and I was really looking forward to the New Year and a less hostile RWD.

 I didn't ask jb to leave, he made a big deal in another thread (I had nothing to do with it) and had a little tantrum and announced he was leaving RWD and that it would be boring here without him, told us all to have a nice life, etc.

 The fact is this type of guy can't stand peace and quiet and people getting along, he needs turmoil, he wants to get people riled up and start flame wars, he loves to read his own posts and wants to standout and have us notice him, whether it's through insulting people or actually saying something worthy, he needs to be seen and heard, if only in an internet forum    

 Like I said before, like Stalin, he needs enemies. Look at that post to I/O and tell me I'm wrong. He couldn't stand the new guy taking up his posting space, so he picked a fight with him, it's completely obvious.

 Dan, removing my post was completely uneccessary and shows favoritism to Jb. You remove my post because it would start a flame war, but allow jb's rediculous post to I/O? He retires for one week and then comes back with that post? Give me a break, if anybody was trying to start something it was him, he just couldn't stand to be silent.