Childish Bickering

[Kuna]

I'm at a point where I don't really care if I offend anyone but I'm sick and tired of the childishness in here.

If someone wants respect they really have to earn respect, it can't be demanded!

I have no interest in the petty arguments going on in here and have felt that the potential of this board is being squandered by self interest. I wonder if anyone else has become bored with so called "experts" acting like children and so called "failures" justifying their crap decisions from the past.

Can't we get back to some constructive learning?

[jb]

But,,,but,,,but,,, childish bickering is what we do best.

If you can't handle it, go to another board.  Better yet,,, if it bothers you that much, turn off your computer.  We were doing just fine before you got here, we'll do fine after you are long forgotten.

What you and you other fine and high minded AU brother fail to realize is that a lot of information is exchanged here, we are just not up to kissing AU a$$.  Piss off if you can't handle the tone, I'm for one, sick of hearing you guys whine about us yanks not being "cultured" enough.  Go start your own AU board.

[jb]

Did I offend you enough?

[jb]

kuna, get it in your head, no one here cares if you are offended or not.  I/O has the same problem.  Somehow you guys got the impression you were special.  Frankly I think you guys are a little stupid, neither of you have any experience living with a RW, nor do either of you know much about Russia.

I suggest you guys get over yourselves.

[Kuna]

You can't offend me...  you're just continuing your recent poor behaviour.

I won't be going anywhere though some people may wish you would.  I don't, YET... but I fail to see what value you've added in recent times.  

I have empathy for the difficulties you and your family have faced in recent times but it's hard to excuse the personal attacks that have become far too common.

[jb]

Well, perhaps, I can offend you some more.

So far you haven't made a single trip to the Rodina, please wait until you have the tiniest bit of experience before you get huffy with me.  You are a total newbie, with zero experience.  I sincerely hope no one is reading your posts with too much interests.  You still know nothing yet.  Your buddy, I/O has yet to gain any real on the ground experience living with a RW, he has a g/f, that's all,,, have him check in in 5 years.  Then he can tell how it is.

In fact, you both have a kinda British attitude that pisses me off...

go figure....

[I/O]

Your buddy, I/O has yet to gain any real on the ground experience living with a RW,

JB.  This is a pitty because you were actually starting to add something useful again, but now you have simply reverted to a display of total ignorance on both counts in the above.

If you think that RWD should be exclusively a USA/FSU forum then I have no problem with that, but I would suggest that you petition the administrators to market it as such. You are waaaaaaaaaaaaaay under estimating the stickability of non USA citizens and you are waaaaaaaaaay over estimating your knowledge of Au attitudes to British culture.  Being very quick to advise others not to display or speak from ignorance, please oh please for your own sake, take a little of your own advice.

I/O

[jinx13]

I have to say I like the recent Aussie additions, both guys have different styles, but have excellent writing skills, and a good sense of humor. How's that for kissing some Aussie A$$?  

 As far as the childish bickering goes, I'm starting to think jb is almost trying to get banned from the board, it would never happen, but in his recent posts he has tried to offend like 2/3 of the members here. It's actually starting to become funny, but that will get old fast.

 The bickering does hurt the board overall, and I admit my part in it, sometimes I just get sucked into these ridiculous arguments with jb, but I think I've finally figured it out, he's just an instigator, it's his way of having fun by stirring things up. Nobody could actually be that childish and arrogant, could they?  ???

[LEGAL]

JB Please lets not get more upset than you are, if you lived near I would say we would have a drink and laugh about.  come on its not worth it really!

Olga and I wish you all a better evening. Remember the  cold war is over.   OK PLEASE LAUGH


Sincerely
LEGAL and Olga

[I/O]

Something went horribly wrong with my PC ...sorry guys for the blank.  Might be a little bit like my brain.

[Kuna]

I'm finding it difficult to not tell you the obvious, but I will say this...

Well, perhaps, I can offend you some more.

I told you,  I'm not offended.  The more I read from you the more pity I have... but I'm not offended.  

I can see you're in an almost uncontrollable rage and I genuinely feel for you.  

So far you haven't made a single trip to the Rodina, please wait until you have the tiniest bit of experience before you get huffy with me.  You are a total newbie, with zero experience.  

I think you're missing the point of RWD.  As I understand it, RWD is a valuable learning resource for people just like me, newbies. We come here to read trip reports, ask questions and after we make a trip we can come back and post our own trip reports for future newbies to learn from.

Something that I know you won't agree with is this:

It's possible to learn from other people's mistakes.  I have possibly gained more knowledge from reading about the mistakes some men have made than the rosy posts of some that "think" they are successful.

You still know nothing yet.  Your buddy, I/O has yet to gain any real on the ground experience living with a RW, he has a g/f, that's all,,, have him check in in 5 years.  Then he can tell how it is.

jb,  my BEST friend has been married to a UW for 12 years.  They have a son (my Godson) and are blissfully happy.  He broke many of the rules you bash other people over but he would NEVER act like you do.  No doubt his approach was high risk but their marriage is definitely a success story.

Come back here and check in with me in 7 years and I'll see how you're going.

In fact, you both have a kinda British attitude that pisses me off...

I'm not sure if this is supposed to be an insult and am not even sure I know what a "British attitude" is.  Are you referring to the aristocracy or the football thugs?

[LEGAL]

JB Jinx is right please calm down. The rest of you don't help by instigating him.


LEGAL

[jb]

Actually, I'm quite calm, it's the folks with zero experience, expounding on "how it's supposed to be done" that raised my blood pressure.  I'd perfer they waited until they actually knew a RW for more than a few days before they told us how to care for, and feed them.  I'd bet neither of them have ever eaten pickled Cod Livers on white bread instead of cavair when the vodka bottle wasn't quite empty.

I just hate that.

[I/O]

when the vodka bottle wasn't quite empty.

I'm beginning to get the impression that there is an awful lot in these seven words above.  Hmmmmm

I/O

[jinx13]

 yesssss, I get that impression too. Hope he finds his way to bed soon, this could be embarrasing in the morning.

[LEGAL]

Hey! hot-tempered boys!
It is time for bed.

Not forget  milk and cookies

Good night and sweet dreams.
Olga.

[I/O]

Hey! hot-tempered boys!
It is time for bed.

Not forget  milk and cookies

Good night and sweet dreams.
Olga.

TFF.... :crackthewhip: :crackthewhip:

[Admin]

But,,,but,,,but,,, childish bickering is what we do best.

If you can't handle it, go to another board.  Better yet,,, if it bothers you that much, turn off your computer.  We were doing just fine before you got here, we'll do fine after you are long forgotten.

What you and you other fine and high minded AU brother fail to realize is that a lot of information is exchanged here, we are just not up to kissing AU a$$.  Piss off if you can't handle the tone, I'm for one, sick of hearing you guys whine about us yanks not being "cultured" enough.  Go start your own AU board.

No John, I don't agree.

I do not agree that childish bickering is what we do best - and I do not agree with the notion that this is a US board and others should start their own.

We have always appealed to an international audience, and we will continue to do so.

I did not see anything in the post that spoke about 'whining' or being 'cultured' - I saw a genuine expression of concern that this rancor is harming RWD, and I share that concern.

Everyone who participates in the unnecessary insults and the slanderous comments needs to knock it off - and NOW.

- Dan

[Jack]

Wow, if jb's comments can get to some of you I have to wonder how your going to react to some of the things/comments/attitudes of some Russian women some of you could come in contact with (I said some, not all, not anywhere close to all).

Some guys will (and have) learned from jb's comments. Some guys are not going to like jb's comments because certain comments hit too close to home and these are, in my opinion, some of the guys doing the most crying and jb bashing.

If I may offer the following suggestion. If you don't like reading what jb writes, if you are offended by what jb writes, then it's real simple, don't read what jb posts.

[Kuna]

Wow, if jb's comments can get to some of you I have to wonder how your going to react to some of the things/comments/attitudes of some Russian women some of you could come in contact with (I said some, not all, not anywhere close to all).

Some guys will (and have) learned from jb's comments. Some guys are not going to like jb's comments because certain comments hit too close to home and these are, in my opinion, some of the guys doing the most crying and jb bashing.

If I may offer the following suggestion. If you don't like reading what jb writes, if you are offended by what jb writes, then it's real simple, don't read what jb posts.

Jack,

The purpose of my trip is to weed out anyone that may have an abrasive personality.  All people AND communities have ranges of "acceptable behaviour", and that's what I'll be considering when I meet my favourite girls in Ukraine.

I did object, and still do, to posts telling people to "go cut their throats".  I don't think that's necessary.  I was also getting bored with every thread becoming a slanging match of personal insults and abuse.  It doesn't add any value to RWD.

At the same time, I KNOW that if the venom could be overlooked the messages were (generally) valid.

I just think it's time we get back on track and let go of the personal attacks.   :noidea:

Kuna

[Son of Clyde]

I have received my share of insults from jb and I have learned to deal with jb as a wise but somewhat grumpy old man (well a little older than me). I will sometimes dig at him because it may be my only way to let jb know I may not have appreciated some of the things he said to me. Do I hate jb? Of course not, he gives a different perspective and I may not always appreciate his methods but if jb didn't care, just a little bit he would not bother. I once posted a remark that I thought jb and I were becoming friends and he said that he was never my friend. He did not say he was my enemy, I think he just meant his feelings for me are neutral. I was taken aback by that remark and have never forgotten it but it is jb's directness. What you get from jb is direct, no holds barred advice. I wish jb could accept criticism and take it in stride but it is not his way. He recently had a family loss and he has had health problems for several years. Some guys might feel sorry from themselves when they are having rough times but jb seems to reach out by posting here. A leopard can not shed his spots so a man who has been brutally frank all his life is not likely to change if he is not willing. You must learn to accept jb or just ignore him.

[William3rd]

I agree with Jack-

There is an ignore button here if you want to tune out some of JBs posts. Actually, when you cut through some of his verbiage, JB makes a lot of good points.

You would be surprised at who I have selected to place on ignore because their posts consistantly show such a low level of value (like no value) or show such incredible ignorance of the entire concept of what these discussions are about. JB is not one of them.

Some of you who have felt the JB lash are certainly not any better (although you try to claim the high ground) because you keep throwing barbs at him or making posts that are decidedly lacking in depth or experience or downright childish. Some of the posts I see are completely anal and are misleading. While you have the right to speak your piece, your words also show what you are made of and also your biases. I have biases as well. . . .

Everybody brings something to the table here. Some of you-for whatever reason (I keep thinking of self-promotion)- probably go way beyond your experiences and give advice that would make real veterans cringe in horror. . .

While I dont agree with JBs word selection from time to time and am not a fan of his methodology or his diplomacy, he is usually right on point with what he is saying. At least he has something to say. . .

I have avoided using alot of names here- call it diplomacy. . . .

And it probably wont matter. . . which is a real pity, because the guilty parties wont see that you hurt yourselves more than you hurt anyone else. These boards are a wealth of information. But we have to wade through page after page of self-aggrandizing narcissists to capture the information.

I wonder how many new folks come on here to look for information and give up after reading a few posts. . . .

You can move this to the flame room if you like. . . .

[Admin]

I think people here need to maintain the perspective that this is ONLY an internet discussion forum. We strive to create a sense of 'community' - but it remains an online, virtual, community. Most of us will never meet in real life. Few will ever interact beyond the sterility of a keyboard and screen.

As William points out, there are features of the online software which allows us to isolate ourselves from others. My experience with it is, that it is almost never used. I think it was BC who ran a poll to ask if others would really use it, or would they 'peek' from time to time. Results were VERY strong that 'Ignore' is a neat tool, but has limited application because most just ignore the 'Ignore' feature. Go figure ???

Without waxing too much philosophy (or more correctly, sociology), suffice to say that everyone needs to take themselves, and others, a little less seriously when it comes to an online forum.

Take whatever is valuable to you - and discard what is not.

FWIW

- Dan

[Son of Clyde]

No one enjoys being attacked and that goes for jb as well as anyone else on the board. If jb's posts have been harsh lately he has been taking a lot of criticism. Some of it is constructive and some is not. It may be time to stop criticising and move on.

[Turboguy]

As far as the question of does the bickering add or detract from RWD, I voted that it took away.   I think a small amount of bickering is natural and may make things more interesting.  When it goes on and is page after page of insults and bickering it definitely detracts.

I want to make a comment that may not go over well with one person but keep reading.  When jb took his sabbatical from RWD, while he was gone it was a completely different RWD.  It was calm, helpful, supportave and interesting.   It was a little quiet for a day or two till I/O found his way here but still all the bickering was gone.  The was none what so ever.

Since jb came back the bickering is worse than ever.  jb seems to have come back with a chip on both shoulders and his axe sharply honed.

So am I saying I think jb should be banned or jb should leave permanently.  No, not at all.  I think jb knows his stuff and has a lot to add.  He has the ability to make posts that add insight and are right on target.  I think people would get his point more if he spent less time inserting needless insults against someone in them.   My feelings about jb are that he is a well meaning individual who presents his information and help in the wrong way.  I think it would be fair to say that Jinx, PG and I have been the three most often on the receiving end of jb's tirades.  I don't take it personally.  I let it go in one ear and out the other.  I know it is jb and that he means well.  I try to keep my posts civil, positive and helpful even when jb is on a roll.

I think the ideal solution which probably is not workable would be to have a "to be continued" thread in anything goes and for us all to have enough discipline that when bickering starts we just go to that thread to continue it and let the rest of the discussion stay civil and on target.  I just don't know that it is practical.

I think it would be good if jb realized that some bickering is normal.  It shows our human nature and a difference of opinion but as much bickering was we get does no one any good and does harm to RWD.  jb needs to find a way to get some of this off his chest in pm's or basket weaving or whatever and to try to exercise a little more self control.  

I think jb and KenC are probably our two best resources when it comes to living with a RW.   I think they need to realize too that it is not the only thing that gets discussed on RWD.   jb might be great on some aspects but he would admit himself that he has no knowledge of WOVO vs WMVM.   There are a lot of people on RWD with experiences he does not have.  A lot of the guys who are making good posts like Kuna, Gator and I/O may not have the experience in some areas that jb does but their posts are great.  They may have things to learn yet but it has been said the best way to learn something is to teach it so when they make posts helping someone with less knowledge than they have as long as the information they present is good the fact that they may not have experience it first hand is not relevant.   Good information is good information whoever it comes from.  Sorta like if I see someone ask about Confidential Connections and say they should avoid them.  I have never used CC and never been on their website.  I know they are bad from RWD and helping a newbie avoid them is a good thing.  It is not important that I have no first hand knowledge of them.  It is still good information.

I don't have any answers, but that is my two cents worth.