How necessary English?

[I/O]

I resent that.  In three weeks we will be walking on the island Koh Lanta in southern Thailand.

Gator Don't resent it, because you are one of the few that does seem prepared to put in the hard yards that communication problems always need to get past. 

This is the whole point, if one doesn't have the comon language with the woman or vicky verky, it is going to require an enormous effort.  You seem to me like you have the stickability to see it through, but I would bet that most don't have your metal. 

At the end of the day, everyone needs a method of communication or the whole house will crumble.  By far the simplest way to achieve that in the shortest possible time is to find a lady who has some command of English, or your own language if you live in a non English speaking country. 

I/O

[Kuna]

Have you thought about this???

In this thread there's MUCH discussion about the importance of English.  My Key Slection Criteria for girls I corresponded with WAS "good English" as a minimum....  BUT.... I don't think anyone should be fooled into thinking a girl that speaks English and says all the right things is the girl for them.

I don't think many girls come to our countries just to use men for citizenship rights. I think most failed marriages fail because of simple incompatibility.  It's easy for a man to blame the woman rather than be honest and say that he was a part of the %$#@ up!

In all relationships we always put our best foot forward early on.  It's natural, we're trying to impress, right?  It's only after a relationship settles into the normal patterns that you'll see the real person come out.

After my last long term relationship ended I said to myself I wanted "Less bad rather than more good."  Call me strange but in a relationship I don't care how much GOOD there is anymore, if I look at the bad aspects and feel I can't live with it FOREVER then I'm out. I don't care how good it is or how MUCH good there is, if the negatives look bad when they stand on their own I'm continuing my search.

I'm expecting to have many great conversations with the girls I'm visiting (because we've had them on the phone) but part of me also wants to have a little disagreement, argument or misunderstanding.  I'll be very surprised (and concerned) if we agree on everything we discuss.

If we do find points in our discussions that aren't all rosy, I'll be most interested in how we interact with each other and how we reach an outcome.

I want someone who has the personality tools that are most likely to sustain a good relationship, not one where the couple just hopes for a perfect relationship.

Good English or not... I can't help but think this process takes a lot of time.

Kuna

[Photo Guy]

jb,
LOL - Is Hogan the name of your goat?  Did your goat tell
you the current Visa system is all well and good?!   
Yikes! 

You think the severe restrictions on Tourist Visas are connected
with terrorism?  ...You've got to be kidding.  What are the criteria
for our visa policies?  Someone please direct me to a website that
outlines and explains the govt's bizarre and inconsistent quota systems.
...at least Belgium has implemented a more rational system. Maybe we
can learn from them.
Go to new topic:
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=3593.0

[Photo Guy]

Immigration/Visa -are reforms needed? Moved to:
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=3593.0

[KenC]

Photo,
Why don't you start a visa thread?  This has nothing to do with the topic here which is "How necessary is English?"
KenC

[I/O]

P/G Lovely and noble thoughts, but it aint gunna happen.

Kuna I happen to be one of the old school who thinks that a good old fashioned knock down drag out "Blue" long before marriage is a very healthy thing, thus I can see exactly where you are coming from and I suggest you are about "Spot on".  Believe me, mine and I have had a couple of them already.

This only adds to the validity of having comon language long prior to marriage and if possible, right from the start.  If she can express to you exactly what she wants to, even in a "Blue", you can get the real picture, but tears of frustration because she can't express herself are a very different thing and really tend to cloud the issue.

She'll need English sooner or later, the sooner the better.

I/O

[Kuna]

I/O

Agreed.  I want to know if a girl becomes hostile, whether she clams up and sulks, becomes emotional... what is she like when she's NOT at her best.

Time reveals everything about a person.  What's she like when she's tired, when she's got PMS, etc?

It's easy to put a good face on for a while but the real person will always be revealed sooner or later.

Ahhhh  time... time is the key!

Kuna

[ScottinCrimea]

I've said it before.  YOu'll never know if you are truly colmpatible until you've had one good knock-down-drag-out fight.

[Photo Guy]

Ah Yes- those 90 days were rocky, serene, ugly and beautiful...
...a learning experience.

[LEGAL]

Rereading the posts of this topic and what you are saying  about your women and wives  I can tell that some of the secrets of an international families success is not the education of woman, is not her beauty and even is not her knowledge of foreign language, it is her psychological flexible and her ability to adapt to strange culture. But most often the language is a very helpful mean for woman to break down a culture barrier.

Olga

[Photo Guy]

Olga,
Yes, I agree. It seems to me that her willingness to adapt is very important.
She must be able to persevere and learn the new language. A good attitude
will go a long way.

[tim 360]

Some posts on this thread are absolutely absurd.  Dimwit rhetoric.  The short of it is simple.  WOMEN NEED AND THRIVE ON COMMUNICATION.  Lottsa communication.  Guys?  Most can get by with a few grunts per day.  Sharing the same language is just the beginning of any healthy relationship.  Gggeeezzz.  Some of you guys need to spend more time with women period.  In which case you would not be spinning your non-verbal fantasy women/language theorys on a lonely guys website. 

[Rvrwind]

Having language in common is very important, but I don't agree that it is that important in the very beginning, so important that you need to limit yourself to only English speaking women. If you make a connection, & she or you are properly & willingly motivated to learn a common language & you put the proper amount of time into getting to know each other (ie. not a OWW) then you can & likely will be successful.
But proficient or no common language in the very beginning, I don't see as a hindrance to finding a good partner. Certainly it must come to that & come quickly & with the proper attitude & motivation it will.

[ScottinCrimea]

Women have a greater need to talk than men do.  A recent study showed that when women get together and chat, their brain patterns change and they have an endorphin release similar to a narcotic high.  Just watch the smiles on women's faces whan they are sitting and chatting for hours and you will see.  Men can sit together in silence and be perfectly happy.  The point is that you shouldn't judge her needs based on your own or discount the RW's need to have someone to communicate with when she comes to the US.  The opposite of a high is a low.

[tim 360]

Hey Rvr,  No, not as important at first meeting,  but if you want to develop a healthy lasting relationship a common language is the next big step and one to implement quickly.  Pantomine, charades and non-verbal communication will only go a short distance.

[LEGAL]

What is a motivation for woman to learn English?
How will you motivate her?
It is only one motivation for woman - she loves you and wants to share her life with you. When a woman is ready to leave her family and her country to go with you, she believes that you are the best man for her in whole world and with you she will have a great life. She trusts that you will care for her and support her.
It is her motivation!!!
I am sure nobody wants to hear his money is the best motivation to learn English.
Or, maybe you will tell her - "If you do not learn English I will send you back to Russia"      

Olga.

[Rvrwind]

Hey Rvr,  No, not as important at first meeting,  but if you want to develop a healthy lasting relationship a common language is the next big step and one to implement quickly.  Pantomine, charades and non-verbal communication will only go a short distance.

Isn't that exactly what I posted only in different words??? ???

[tim 360]

Yup.  I was clarifying my earlier post and agreeing with your post. 

[Stirlitz]

How serious can a woman be about finding an American man to marry if she is not willing to learn even basic English beforehand?

Well there is an explanation. It is very hard to study a language if you do not have a particular person in mind. Of course, there are women who can do it. They are businesslike and as they view the entire thing as business, they can do well. But the problem is it is not business, it is also romance. With the business approach it is easy to get a GCG or gold-digger. By the way, prodaters are usually very fluent in English.

In my experience many men met cute and nice girls who did not have much English but after they developed some relationship the girls had a great incentive to study English and they did well. Plus every day communication with a native speaker.

So I would not exxagerate the problem. It is not so big as you can think.

[ScottinCrimea]

Tonight my wife and I sat down and watched a movie on DVD in English. Even though my wife speaks very good English, she told me that she understood nearly nothing that was said in the movie.  So now she is worried about how well she will manage when she comes to the US in a couple of months.  I can relate because I have been subjected to a steady diet of TV and movies in Russian.  Personally I think she will do just fine, but she did bring up a good point.  When I speak to her in English, I speak differently that I would with an English speaking person.  Knowing Russian, I use words and phrases that translate more easily into Russian, a simple example is using the word difficult instead of hard because that can be confused with the opposite of soft.  so now she wants me to speak to her in more typical English, which probably is a good idea.

[tim 360]

Scott,  Since your wife now speaks very good English I would not worry.  I have known 4 RW's who have come here with only good English and after a year of immersion living here their English is very getting close to the level of a native speaker. 

Stirlitz: An excellent post.  The best of the scammers have an very good command of English and know just what to say and how to say it to the gullible guy. 

[I/O]

I use words and phrases that translate more easily into Russian, a simple example is using the word difficult instead of hard because that can be confused with the opposite of soft.  so now she wants me to speak to her in more typical English, which probably is a good idea.

Bingo...!!!  Excellent point for all freshman to consider. This sums up some of the initial problems very well and it goes further.  She can come to understand your personal style of English and still struggle with other people.

I/O

[Jumper]

Stirlitz made some very good points ,
and i agree the subject gets over blown because  RW can learn english very quickly.

I do think guys need to allow for that time for her to learn it though,, so that they can indeed communicate and allows her to be functional once she arrives , not after. its only far, and wil allow your relationship better odds of siuccess?


Scotts post brings up another point thats just as often debated..

the idea of a WM learning Russian, and wether its ultimately
 usefiul, or needed, as she will likely immigrate instead of the husband..(not in scotts case at the moment)

the fact he lives there and has a decent grasp of Russian, ALLOWS him to tailor his english, and words used , to better communicate.

it also allows him to have a good grasp of how certain words translate , or more importantly, what words often translate strangely or what some are  commonly confused to mean.

and of course fundamental Russian also helps directly communicate.

 
My wife had a good grasp of english..
(yes i considered it basic, but she would have been able to get along just fine , even the first day i met her,
 if landed in a US city)

but i wil tell you , my rudementary russian still allowed us to communicate far better,
simply by allowing me to KNOW what she meantwhen she used a strange, or incorrect word..
as i often knew the corralating rusian word and could recognize the true "intent" without stopping her flow of conversation to ask.

Am i suggesting guys MUST learn Russian.
no.

what i am saying is if you are going to included non english speakers in your search..

it would benefit you greatly to learn even fundamental Russian and build your vocabulary daily.

if you want to include limited english skills in your search ,, cool!,

but then stop with the flippin excuses ok?
It ISN'T that difficult.

Agreed it is a very difficult language to master , or be precise in grammer.
but you do not need that level of competency to greatly help you!

While hard to master, (i never will) it is not THAT hard to get some basics down, or get a fundamental vocabulary .

no! you wont have the endings or correct grammer! but you shouldl be able to acheive  a "dog level" with a little effort on your part
(far less than she is going to have to do)

*dog level* = can understand much, but cant speak  (properly)
   and simply understanding will help you a lot.

Russian is somewhat easy to read , as the majority is phonic
The cryllic alphebet , may seem strange, but dedicate a month to it and it will make the language far easier to learn.
 

The good things in life seldom come without a bit of elbow grease and true effort.

You want to expand your search, that is one fairly easy way..

now just look at all the guys that just ::::::::winced :::::::::::
when i said "easy"!!!!!!!
but compared to all the other things you will do,
 learning a good bit of Russian , and how to read it,, is likely the easiest thing you will do.

It isnt that you have to,, but if you are trying to expand your horizonms isnt worth the effort,
then maybe you need to rethink the expanding of your search?


Also i see guys spend all kind of time here researching..(a good thing)
but few who follow thru with the same level of intensity as reaserch here, with learning her first langauge ,,
(a strange and almost bizzare  thing,  if seriuosly condsidering dating someone with a limited level of english)

my 5 gryvna.. 

[Rvrwind]

AJ right on...Even having lived here as long as I have I find it very difficult enunciate. I can read a fair bit & read the newspaper & signs in & on buildings etc. I can sit & listen to a conversation & understand about 80%, enough to piece together what is being discussed. I miss the minute details but most times those are not so important.
But when it comes to speaking it well thats a dog of a different color.I just can't seem to get the emphasis on the correct part of the word. Even when somebody repeats it to me several times, I can't hear it. It is as though I am maybe tone deaf because it doesn't sound ant different to me & that is where my biggest problem lays.On top of that not being able to form some of the letter sounds.
For example there is one letter that sounds almost like a grunt to me & to me a grunt is a grunt but but my wife continues to tell me I am pronouncing it wrong. The difference is so subtle, that in my mind that I don't see a difference (or hear) but she does.
I just thank my lucky stars that most folks accept my poor Russian with a grain of salt & are quite forgiving when I butcher the language. Even they understand Russian is a very difficult language to learn.

[SANDRO43]

For example there is one letter that sounds almost like a grunt to me & to me a grunt is a grunt but but my wife continues to tell me I am pronouncing it wrong.

Richard, is this the letter giving you problems

ы

as in Mы ? Try prononcing that as muy in Spanish initially, then gradually make the U sound indistinct.