Immigration and Visas- Are Reforms Needed?

[Photo Guy]

Vaughn,
Do you believe that an expensive rendezvous with her in Barbados, is okay, while
a simlar meeting in Key West, USA, would be a bad alternative? I don't see
the logic. It is important to get to know the woman of your dreams, -true?
Why not do it on your home turf, where she can see your home, your friends,
your parents, your pet goat, etc. The current system forces a guy to spend
much more time, money and energy, than if he were dating a local woman on his
home turf, and yet the goal is exactly the same, isn't it? I have read here at RWD
about guys who have had meetings with RW who were here in the US with
a work visa or even a student visa. A friend of mine met his wife at a Natl Park.
She had a work visa. So that made it easier for him to date her and get to know
her. Thanks to that work visa, the two fell in love and later got married. He did
go to her town near Kazan and met her family. So that trip also helped him
with their relationship. Then they filed a K-1 and they married after a couple of
weeks back in the US. My point is that the initial period of meeting and spending
time together was made possible by her work visa. So what if it was a Tourist Visa
instead? Or some other visa, yet to be invented. For cases just like theirs, I think
it would benefit a lot of serious marriage-minded folks who are intersted in spending
a lot of time with that special person, a potential fiancee. I think it was fantastic
that my friend and his wife met and dated during her work visa. I do not see that
as lowering the bar. I see it as a better opportunity for international couples to
get to know each other better, and a good way for her to learn about her
possible new country. 

[Turboguy]

Changes will never happen PG, but if I could wave my magic wand and make changes i would create a romance visa with a 90 day period and the requirement that you had met like for a fiancee visa and make it so it could be rolled over into a fiancee visa but then you have to get married or for her to go back.   Too many people use the fiancee visa to test the waters and 90 days is not enough.  More time would mean fewer divorces.  Having said that I will come back to the real world where nothing changes except for the worse.

[Photo Guy]

I think we can make it happen, Turbo. Stay optimistic. Think positive.
Fight the good fight, as they say.

Yes, I agree 90 days is a short time - a lot of pressure there.

[Kuna]

I'm actually in favour of tough Visa conditions because I think they're in place to protect the integrity of a nations culture and values.

Whilst it's not always conducive to marrying a RW, if Visa requirements were relaxed there would be far more people exploiting the new rules.

Tough immigration rules protect our way of life.  We mightn't like them but we don't like speed limits and taxes either.

There ARE options:

a) If someone was REALLY serious about wanting greater immigration freedom they COULD migrate to a country with loose rules like Thailand and then they can have the freedom they desire.

b) America is the land of the free.  Any man can become President one day.  Run for office!  Make your country a better place.  Fix all those problems and show them how it should be done.    

c) CHANGE YOUR KEY SELECTION CRITERIA!  Work out WHO has a chance of getting a Visa and look for a woman like that.  A career, owns an apartment, has children that she could leave with family for a few months.  I don't know what makes a person more likely to get a visa but if that's what you want... SEEK IT OUT!

Just my ideas... even though option b was a bit of a pi$$-take!

Kuna

[Photo Guy]

I'm actually in favour of tough Visa conditions because I think they're in place to protect the integrity of a nations culture and values.

Whilst it's not always conducive to marrying a RW, if Visa requirements were relaxed there would be far more people exploiting the new rules.

Tough immigration rules protect our way of life.  We mightn't like them but we don't like speed limits and taxes either.

There ARE options:

a) If someone was REALLY serious about wanting greater immigration freedom they COULD migrate to a country with loose rules like Thailand and then they can have the freedom they desire.

b) America is the land of the free.  Any man can become President one day.  Run for office!  Make your country a better place.  Fix all those problems and show them how it should be done.    

c) CHANGE YOUR KEY SELECTION CRITERIA!  Work out WHO has a chance of getting a Visa and look for a woman like that.  A career, owns an apartment, has children that she could leave with family for a few months.  I don't know what makes a person more likely to get a visa but if that's what you want... SEEK IT OUT!

Just my ideas... even though option b was a bit of a pi$$-take!

Kuna

I think taxes are generally okay- a necessary 'evil'. I like speed limits, except in the rare cases when they are way too slow.

What if there was a special Tourist Visa, that required sponsoring the non-immigrant for a period of one year?
How could that be abused? I don't see how a longer visa period would open up our country to some kind of cultural corruption. What I do see as a danger is non-enforcement of immigration laws as you see now happening
at our southern border with millions of 'undocumented' 'workers' relocating to our country. In that case, the problem is a Lack of Enforcement of laws regarding immigration. I think documentation is important for controlling
who comes and goes and stays. I don't see a danger with making something like Tourist Visas more available.
What would be a specific example of the negative effect of a lengthy Tourist Visa? Maybe I'm just not aware
of the bad ramifications.

I think that if the Visa and Immigration laws are obsolete, we should re-invent them. The govt of the US is constantly changing- and I'm advocatiing making the US a better place. Your ideas and suggestions are welcomed. Your choice 'A' is what I would call 'running away from a problem' and it's not for me. Choice 'C' is okay, but a little too passive for me. I'll go with choice 'B'.  Until the laws actually change here, I'll be pragmatic and
probably spend a lot of time with my next fiancee OUTSIDE of this country. Tropical beaches sound inviting.

[KenC]

Photo,
The romancing is supposed to have been already accomplished in your lady's home country prior to the fiancee visa.  Why is it necessary for  the country to make it more convenient for you to find romance?  The way I see it, our government probably allowed the K-1 to accommodate soldiers stationed overseas.  It might be interesting to research the history of K-1's.  I agree that 90 days isn't enough to romance a woman before marriage, but again the intention of the visa is to allow 90 days to arrange the wedding, nothing more.  There hasn't been an open door policy for immigration here in a long long time.  Just because it doesn't fit your requirements at the moment, doesn't make it wrong.

You asked how a special tourist visa might be abused.  They cannot keep up and enforce student visas that the terrorists used to get into this country.  How could they ever enforce someone who chooses to abuse this one?  Once in the country, people can get lost very easily.  When I spoke to an immigration attorney prior to Lena coming here, he told me, "our goal os to get her into the country legally, after that I can assure you she will never have to go back."  He was confident that he could change her status to permanent.  I think about the only visa that isn't that way is a particular work visa that is issued only after the applicant pledges that they will return to their home country after their work is complete.
KenC

[I/O]

To stick my two pence worth in to where is is probably not wanted, has something changed in the last 4 months with the USA regs?  Reason for my question is that I know 3 guys who have invited their girlfriends for a vist long before K-1 stage and have been quite successful.  Certainly, the Russian woman in each case has had to present substantial evidence to justify that she won't over stay the visa.  I get the impression from this board that most people think it is impossible.  Just curious on that point.

The same was told me by many here.  She will never get a tourist visa to vist Aus. Well I proved that theory wrong in pretty short order.  Again, we had to present good evidence, but I have no problem with that.  It was simply a matter of doing it by the book.

BTW there is a few differences with our "K-1" style visa, we call it "Sub Class 309" (Prospective marriage Visa)  which gives 9 months from date of issue to marriage or out of the country.  All things being equal, it can give a couple up to about 7 months together in Aus before their marriage, however the proposed marriage date must be lodged and registered prior to the application for this visa. 

The other condition which is not highlighted, but is clearly there, is if a guy sponsors a woman on this basis and it goes south, he effectively can't sponsor another for 5 years unless he can prove the first women fraudulantly desserted the relationship without his approval.  Not a simple thing to prove.  So basically, a guy gets 1 shot every 6 years. 

The ridiculous part of our system is that if the visa is refused at embassy stage, one is forced to the MRT (Migration Review Tribunal) and guess what?  It is revealed there that the PMV carries the same selection criteria as the spouse visa , which includes having lived together for an extended period of time and being able to justify why you are not living together now..!!  Duhhhhhhhhh why am I applying for a PMV?  So we can start the process of being together permenantly.  Sort of self defeating regulation. 

I have a feeling, Kuna might change his stance a little once he gets tied up in the visa process.  It looks quite good and safe on the face of it, but the administration and application of the system is ridiculous in the extreme.  I am fully expecting to be lodging a writ in the MRT within the next few weeks.  We will be amoung the very lucky few, if the embassy gives an approval at that level.

I/O

 

[BC]

I think we can make it happen, Turbo. Stay optimistic. Think positive.
Fight the good fight, as they say.

Silly boy..

The US Government does make it easy for a lot of folks to visit without a formal visa.

http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/without/without_1990.html

Instead of limiting yourself to FSU, chase women from 27 countries that can visit you easily. 

Maybe sometime in the future RU will appear on this list.. but guess what, by the time this happens immigration and AM will be the last thing on the minds of good RU women.

Can someone here explain to me why women from 27 countries are unacceptable?  err.. make that 28 countries if you count your own.  Herein lies the true problem. 

It's your choice to stay in the FSU 'rut', missing out on perfectly good opportunities elsewhere.

Threads like this one remind me of the superb ideas and cures for injustice we found taking hits from the Grand Bong.

[Bruno]

It looks quite good and safe on the face of it, but the administration and application of the system is ridiculous in the extreme.

Don't worry, it is the same here...

We know some problem with the cohabitation visa...

First time refusal because it was not enough evidence of relationship... but the more funny was that the first time, it was the Belgium Embassy who have refuse evidence...

Belgium foreign office have advice us to try again with more evidence... of course, the Embassy have refuse new evidence ( skype log for prove the phone communication, photo's, e-mail, etc )... reason given by the Embassy : The dossier is already enough heavy and nobody will read all of this... The problem is that the foreign office in Belgium review it... and the law don't allow me to send evidence directly to the foreign office in Bruxelles...

A senator have propose me two specialist lawer for free... but i cannot make a complain... only these who have know a refusal ( it mean my girlfriend ) can complain but for this,  she need to come in Belgium for deposit a complain... and for come in Belgium, she need a visa who was refused to her...

Here in Belgium, law can be different at the federal level, at the national level and at the international level... administration don't work good together... same my city administration was not knowing the procedure for cohabitation visa... they have explain that it was a enough new system ( from 1997, with some change in 2002 )...

Maybe next step will be a marriage in Ukraine... or maybe i will move myself to Ukraine... don't yet know... the only thing that i am sure, we will be together in the futur...

So, yes, all is good on paper... but the reality is always more difficult... seem that the more easy method for a foreign is to come illegal in Belgium and ask a regularisation... procedure take a lot of year and they can stay during the procedure... after enough time in Belgium, they can ask the nationality... so, it work good for these who follow the illegal way and it is difficult for these who try to respect law...

In 2006, Belgium have know around 300 cohabitation visa... with more of 50% refusal... in the same time, it was more that 50000 illegal who have reach our country... why make problem to the few who follow the legal way and make nothing against all these illegal !!! See the situation in US with the illegal Mexican... this is the real problem... not the guy who try to marry the woman he love !!!

[I/O]

Bruno: Yep...!! All that might be true, but guess what? It ain't gunna change anytime soon.  I put a few clues upthread for a guy who I am fairly sure will read this, but to be honest this issue has been flogged to death across just about every forum remotely connected with this subject for an eternity and I doubt there has been one concise petition put forward to any Government as a result, so I can't see much point in wasting more cyberspace on the subject.

I/O

[William3rd]

YAAAWWWWWWNNN- 1947 War Brides Act. SO that the US family of the groom had the opportunity to see that marriage take place. Never intended for the current use in the modern era...

And with all of the problems that are occurring in the system, why would they even think about relaxing the requirements or creating yet another way to have people get to the US?

As you can see from IMBRA, the tendency is to toughen regs in this area. . .

VWP participants are from countries where people go HOME after a visit. Countries where the nationals come to the US and actually see Disneyland. Where they dont clear customs and then immediately file for asylum, get married, or suddenly have an urge to go to school. So- if the Russians all go home after visiting and not try for green cards, then someday they might be on VWP as well.

I am sure that I will have long returned to the earth when that day comes but. . . .  you can always dream

[Bruno]

Bruno: Yep...!! All that might be true, but guess what? It ain't gunna change anytime soon.

Yep... Why they will change... same if all the men involved with foreign bride work together, we will always stay a minority...

A petition !!! With a few hundred, maybe one thousand signature... again one tree cut for nothing...

What people need to realise is that we are nothing for our gouverment... They have maybe loose some vote from men involved in foreign marriage with the IMBRA, but they have win 10 times more vote on the side of US women...

[Bruce]

I really think the Russians do and have overwhelmingly returned when given a tourist visa.  I know every one of the Russian girls who went over on J-1 visas in the group with my sister-in-law on two successive occasions returned to Russia (N=25).  These were 19, 20 and 21 year old RW many of which were physically very attractive.  They returned.  So, I suspect the problem with Russian women occurred in the days of political assylum labeling, outright lies or more likely the inability of Americans to distinguish Ukrainians from Moldovans, from Turkmenistan, Kyrgystan, Khazakstan etc.
It would be interesting to see actual number of Russians who have overstayed their visas. 

[William3rd]

Non waivable j visas have to go home-they have no choice as they cant change status.

The govt keeps track of the folks from other countries who remain past their welcome and it is based on their nationality (passport). Certain countries-the VWP eligible countries- have citizens that go home on time more than 90% of the time. Once you are at that 1 in 20 level, then the doors open.

And the Russians dont do that. And neither do the Ukrainians, Armenians, Kyrgyz, Uzbekis. . . etc etc etc.

[Bruce]

Ok, appreciate the info on visa subtleties.

[Rvrwind]

Instead of limiting yourself to FSU, chase women from 27 countries that can visit you easily.

Now the simple answer to this is because most guys, I say most, not all, cannot catch those women because they are not motivated to leave their present living conditions. No chance some old dude is getting a 20 year old outa there so why would most guys even try, they go where it benifits them & that ain't where they can get out on their own.

[Kuna]

I have a feeling, Kuna might change his stance a little once he gets tied up in the visa process.  It looks quite good and safe on the face of it, but the administration and application of the system is ridiculous in the extreme.  I am fully expecting to be lodging a writ in the MRT within the next few weeks.  We will be amoung the very lucky few, if the embassy gives an approval at that level.

Hmmm.. maybe, maybe not.  I/O, sorry to hear that it sounds like you've had the run around with your Visa.  I know my friend had no issues during the process but that was a while ago.

I have an employee who had no issues with his fiance, but she wasn't from FSU.

Me?  Well I've just had the coolest day in Hamburg and I now know my German is good enough, and their English is good enough, and my skills are transportable enough...  that I could quite happily live here if I had to.

The only issue I had was a numb face and missing my lips when I went for the first sip of a drink...  but other than a quick shirt change it's been an outstanding day!

I/O... I think you and might end up having some long discussions about visas etc.  Hmmm... tell me... do you prefer a good single malt whiskey or a nice bottle of red?  (No beating around the bush hey!)  ;-)

Kuna

[I/O]

Hmmm.. maybe, maybe not.  I/O, sorry to hear that it sounds like you've had the run around with your Visa.  I know my friend had no issues during the process but that was a while ago.

I have an employee who had no issues with his fiance, but she wasn't from FSU.

Me?  Well I've just had the coolest day in Hamburg and I now know my German is good enough, and their English is good enough, and my skills are transportable enough...  that I could quite happily live here if I had to.

The only issue I had was a numb face and missing my lips when I went for the first sip of a drink...  but other than a quick shirt change it's been an outstanding day!

I/O... I think you and might end up having some long discussions about visas etc.  Hmmm... tell me... do you prefer a good single malt whiskey or a nice bottle of red?  (No beating around the bush hey!)  ;-)

Kuna

Kuna I'm rapped to hear you are enjoying the "Fardalund" (Yeah there is a bit of info there for you) and I would probably lean towards a good red.  Being brutally honest, my constitution will probably reavel more useful info on the red than on the single malt.

No I havn't had the run around yet on the visa thing.  In fact everything has gone like clockwork thus far, but I just know too many who have been jerked around by inconsistent application of the legislation. Non the less, I am very much a realist and I am well prepared to dig in for the long haul as it were.  I guess my biggest worry right now is that I just know mine will be completely heartbroken if we have to go to the MRT and fight it out there.  She has what it takes to stay the distance, but it is just so hard from this distance when they are upset and frustrated about something.  Such is life.

Mate anytime....We'll have much to compare after this trip of yours and if you want to hash over any part of the visa thing, the previous offers stand good.

Do what ya do do well and keep your powder dry.

I/O

[Photo Guy]

KenC wrote:
'...Photo,
The romancing is supposed to have been already accomplished in your lady's home country prior to the fiancee visa..'

Ken, that's true, but who came up with that arbitrary requirement? Some
bureaucrat in Washington?  ...Question authority. Trash bad rules and
strengthen the good ones. Checking your reading comprehension-
My point is that we should look at our current visa/immigration requirements
and critique them, challenge them, change them, or reinforce them.
Is reform necessary?  It's okay to disagree with laws that are on the books.
Just look at the polarized opinions across the US about the 'abortion' topic.
Question authority and write to your representatives...

Ken, you also wrote:
'...There hasn't been an open door policy for immigration here in a long long time.  Just because it doesn't fit your requirements at the moment, doesn't make it wrong.'

Open door? I'm here in AZ and you're in CA. Hello? Look around you.
The visa process should fit the requirements of our citizens.
Can you agree with that? If you think the current system is good,
please elaborate. Should it be easier for foreigners for the FSU to
get a Tourist Visa? Should some new visa be invented that makes it
easier for couples to spend time together in the US? Why is the current
fiancee visa a 90 day period? If the decision to marry is a prerequisite,
maybe the time period should be reduced to just 30 days just to arrange
time for the wedding? These questions are not just for me and my
situation Ken. I'm not currently engaged. I may get back into
dating later in the Spring. ...I have a lot going on now here at home.

Where did I say I was in favor of an 'open door policy'?!!!!!!  :hairraising:

[prince_alfie]

KenC wrote:
'...Photo,
The romancing is supposed to have been already accomplished in your lady's home country prior to the fiancee visa..'

Ken, that's true, but who came up with that arbitrary requirement? Some
bureaucrat in Washington?  ...Question authority. Trash bad rules and
strengthen the good ones. Checking your reading comprehension-
My point is that we should look at our current visa/immigration requirements
and critique them, challenge them, change them, or reinforce them.
Is reform necessary?  It's okay to disagree with laws that are on the books.
Just look at the polarized opinions across the US about the 'abortion' topic.
Question authority and write your representatives...

Amen... the good thing is that the visa requirements don't have anything to do with cultural preservation but moneymaking... the govt gets a lot of money from processing visas and so on that it becomes the key to the whole works.

Recognize the dollar sign behind the process. It will save you a lot of heartbreak.

[Photo Guy]

A new visa type would bring in additional revenues...

[BC]

Amen... the good thing is that the visa requirements don't have anything to do with cultural preservation but moneymaking... the govt gets a lot of money from processing visas and so on that it becomes the key to the whole works.

Recognize the dollar sign behind the process. It will save you a lot of heartbreak.

BS... pure.

Basic requirements for immigration are pretty much standard around the globe. The costs of administrating and enforcing visa policies (and chasing down violations) are probably much higher than fees collected.  The immigration process is probably the easiest and most transparent part of this venture so why balk at it?

If your duckies are in a row there will be no problem.  Where's the 'beef'?

My point is that we should look at our current visa/immigration requirements
and critique them, challenge them, change them, or reinforce them.
Is reform necessary?

No, reform is not necessary.. Consider your last sponsorship and tell me what went wrong from your point of view..

[prince_alfie]

If your duckies are in a row there will be no problem.  Where's the 'beef'?

No, reform is not necessary.. Consider your last sponsorship and tell me what went wrong from your point of view..

Really, unfortunately the law is similar to like in the movie Robocop, it is always twisted to political and corporate gain. Honestly my beef is that the law isn't Occam's razor. It needs to be simple. Just a few rules here and there and let people govern their own behavior accordingly.

Reform isn't necessary. Just chuck most of it and leave the bare essentials.

[BC]

Reform isn't necessary. Just chuck most of it and leave the bare essentials.

Prince,

Reflecting back on all immigration related 'injustices' reported on this forum, the problems were well within the realm of 'bare essentials'.

[Photo Guy]

My sponsorship?
In terms of the visa process, nothing went wrong...