Kuna's Ukraine Trip Report

[Son of Clyde]

Yes this is a great TR.
Sort of reminds me of Richard's TR from RWG only much more detailed.

[DKMM]

Well I might be too late on this thread but Kuna, you cannot waste anytime there!  I know it feels like forever but if you skip a day, you will wish you had it back later... sleep on the plane ride home!!  Just my humble opinion (and i recognize I'm younger too so maybe not good advice for everyone).

The story with the guy in the restaurant sounds real.  So does the attitude change of C, these girls tend to really care about how they are perceived but I still don't understand why.

Don't worry so dammed much about decisions and the such.  You aren't promising anything to ms. C, so just do what your heart tells you now and sort out your feelings later.  You MUST visit Ms. D and then you will know if you really do like her more than Ms. C.  Personally, I think you might find that she isn't as good but its just a hunch and nothing more.  As I've stated before, you'll find out a lot more soon after you get back than you will while you are there.

Good luck!!

[Kuna]

OK... I'm off to Dnepropetrovsk!

I booked my ticket online with Aerosvit BUT when I hit the "commit" button (bad use of words there I guess...) it said the US$40 fare was no longer available so I had to pay and extra $20.

No big deal!

Ms D will meet me at the airport and we'll stay at her place on Friday night. She still lives in the family apartment even though her Mum and sister live in Moscow now.

On Saturday we'll come to Kiev for a few more days and then... :-(  on Monday I'm off home.

What a trip! In case you can't tell I'm having a ball!

Kuna

[Kuna]

Yep, I'm sure he's busy,,, it's been 2 days there, and a page and a half here since we've heard from him.

One thing crosses my mind.  He hit it off so well with girl #1, (Ms. D), now he's well enough on with girl #2 (Ms. C) to take her to Kiev for a few days,,, hummmm.

Then I sensed a bit of waffling language in his last post; Do I sense a bit more than casual interest in the very conservative Ms. C ?

In an earlier post Kuna mentioned he was concerned with her conservatism, yet in the beginning, long before he had bought a ticket, the idea of a down home girl who possessed the core family values he was raised with, was espoused.  IMHO, those family values and conservatism are usually mutually exclusive.   I'm very often amused when I see a left winger, and we've seen a few, close in on the girl of his dreams.  When it comes to decision time, they all seem to choose a conservative woman.  I guess liberalism is what they want for others, but for their own household they want family values for themself.  Funny...

PS I wrote that at 4 AM,,, said right,,, meant left

Are you calling me a lefty jb???  hahahaha... Oh so wrong if you are!   

The conservatism I was concerned about was the feeling I had that she was "tight" or had some difficulty communicating openly.  When we got to Kiev that all changed but what hasn't changed is that Ms D is definitely a fun, exciting and charming girl.

I'm looking forward to spending some more time with her now before I leave and we can both see what it's like to not be meeting a stranger.

Kuna!

[I/O]

Kuna: I'll be in Bne next late next week. If you're up to it I'll shout you a welcome home at the Caxten. 

Be good..........

I/O

[Kuna]

Sounds good to me!!!   

[I/O]

Sounds good to me!!!   

Ok, that was the test guys.  Just checking he hadn't lost his sanity completely.  Yep, he's ok. 

I/O

[Kuna]

Sheeesh!  Not much of a test though.

A free beer at the Cacko???  Who wouldn't say yep!

I was actually going to say "Are you around that area?"  If yes cool.. the Cacko suits!  If not maybe we can do the Storey Bridge or the Norman Hotel... Hmmm... or the Brekky Creek...

I know, why not stay down the weekend and we'll do 'em all!

THERE!!! Still Aussie to the bone!   

I've gotta get out of this apartment. 

I've had a very lazy morning so far but they've started playing english language music on TV, and George Michael is even sounding good!   

Admittedly it's not as visually appealing as the vids that come with Russian music, BUT it's nice to hear something familiar.

[catzenmouse]

and George Michael is even sounding good!

That, my friend is the scariest thing you've ever said! Turn back to the Russian videos NOW! Save yourself before it is too late!!!

 

Ken

[Darth Vader]

RE:  George Michael

Kuna,

Do you have internet via your notebook in your flat?

If so, why not listen to Aussie radio on line?

Have fun in Dnerpr!

darth

[ScottinCrimea]

     I actually don't mind taking the train, especially if it's an overnighter, because I meet new people, sleep just fine, it's cheaper, and I get to see a bit more of the countryside.  I would recommend, though, that your first trip be with someone who knows what they are doing as I never would have thought to bring food or a change of clothes for lounging around during the trip.
     If I start hearing about you hanging around public bathrooms in parks, I'll know that you were enjoying the George Michael music a bit too much.

[Gator]

Kuna,

Glad to read that your trip has progressed splendidly, even if ancestor research took a lower priority than originally intended.  Duhhh!

Someone's feelings will get hurt.  There is no easy way to avoid it.  Trying to avoid it will make it worse.  RW do it the best way - if they do not vaporize without a word, they will tell you straight without sugarcoating it.

IIRC, Professor Emeritus Leslie was romancing two women at the same time.   How long?  I do not remember.   I recall him saying that it had no future and had to end soon.

I know two excellent places to dine in Dnepropetrovsk:  the Safari at the top of the hill at the end of Lenin Prospect (take the trolley) and the lower priced Luna Cafe 1/2 block off Lenin Prospect near the Grand Hotel opposite Majestic Agency.  I did go into McDonald's once, and ordered the only thing the place is good for - a Mc$hit, and its free.

[IAmZon]

<Slight Thread side track.  But Kuna is going to be busy for a couple of days>

Gator,

I have seen this Russian Woman tendency to "vaporize".  I wonder sometimes how to reconcile this characteristic with the opposing characteristic that RW are exceptionally committed.

Any thoughts on this?

[I/O]

I did go into McDonald's once, and ordered the only thing the place is good for - a Mc$hit, and its free.

Gator So it was you that was responsible for the "Quarter Pounder".


Kuna I will actually have a board meeting over at B&W and our main office is at the airport, on the north side of the multi deck car park, so it doesn't make much odds to me.  SB or the Cac, either is fine.  Probably Thursday arv, so the weekend is out.

Be good.

I/O

[Darth Vader]

I did go into McDonald's once, and ordered the only thing the place is good for - a Mc$hit, and its free.

Well, a hamburger is not bad for an american away from home for a long haul. But being an aussie, you are likely doing ok.

But do drop in McDonald's...great location, hot women, and hot coffee.

And BTW-- Consumer Reports magazine just rated McDonald's coffer #1, ahead of Starbucks, even.   So grab some coffee and exercise your eyes, too :-))  (when you are alone)  LOL

[SANDRO43]

I have seen this Russian Woman tendency to "vaporize".  I wonder sometimes how to reconcile this characteristic with the opposing characteristic that RW are exceptionally committed. Any thoughts on this?

My personal theory is that this happens when:

1. They have more than 1 "negotiation" under way.
2. For some reason, you are no longer a favourite "negotiator" .

[IAmZon]

<Again, while Kuna is making snowmen with his favorite girl>

Sandro wrote:
My personal theory is that this happens when:
1. They have more than 1 "negotiation" under way.
2. For some reason, you are no longer a favourite "negotiator" Wink.

OF course.  But what about the steely manner in which a decision is made - fast deliberate, uncompromising.  Versus the characteristics of uncompromisingly loyal and  endlessly devoted?

There is something of a disconnect here.

I think it is a women's prerogative to be selective; and then, when in love devoted.  But both of these characteristics SEEM to be emphasized in RW.

[SANDRO43]

OF course.  But what about the steely manner in which a decision is made - fast deliberate, uncompromising.  Versus the characteristics of uncompromisingly loyal and endlessly devoted? There is something of a disconnect here.

Your question seemed about the WHY, not the HOW.

I cannot really comment about "uncompromisingly loyal and endlessly devoted", since I have no experience of an FSUW in love with me (that I know of ). However, I have some experience in FSUW performing a "vanishing act" on me, and I said what I think the reason for that is. As for their silent/abrupt method, I can only venture some guesses:

1. They do not want to waste time/resources in farewell communications.
2. They can keep you for "a rainy day" : I experienced cases of FSUW who resurfaced after weeks/months of silence, for which they had all sorts of reasons/excuses (easier route than taking back a previous "Dear John" ).

How to reconcile these two apparently conflicting aspects ? Well, there you have me. As I said, I have no experience in the first aspect. I could call the second "fierce concentration on achieving their main objective" (or lack of manners and bloody-minded selfishness ).

[Gator]

Rivardco,

To address your question is not good for a Trip Report.  This is a good issue to merit its own thread.

It appears Kuna is in a hiatus, so I will comment briefly.

1.  She was never emotionally committed to you.  A 30+ RW  is perhaps slower than an AW to commit because they have experienced betrayal and  other bad episodes in their short life.  They are suspicious and Russians in general have been a suspicious people for generations (and justifiably so).
2.  RW are also pragmatic, decisive and efficient.  When it is over, it is over.  Why linger.  They do not have time to waste.  Sugarcoating is not a Russian style; they are clever in many ways but not so much in diplomacy. 
3.  A person recovers quicker and better from a slap across the face than days and weeks of false hope.  A shot into the back of the head is more merciful than saying tender words while slowly disemboweling you. 

[Kuna]

OF course.  But what about the steely manner in which a decision is made - fast deliberate, uncompromising.  Versus the characteristics of uncompromisingly loyal and  endlessly devoted?

There is something of a disconnect here.

Rivardco,

I don't think there's a disconnect at all.  My megre experience would tell me that RW "say it as it is" and if that means it's off... it's OFF... and if it's on... it's ON!

I think with RW you can expect the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth no matter what decision they've made.

What would be more of a concern to me is if they HADN'T made a decision because then you might just be another in line waiting to romance them.

Just my thoughts.

Oh,  I'm back online... having a ball.. tell Mum I love her and please help me find a really good excuse for not going home tomorrow!   

Kuna

Trip report to follow soon... but I might go out for dinner and a few bevvies first!

[DKMM]

Kuna... don't leave us hanging!  OK so maybe you won't have time to finish here before you leave Ukraine but please get back on here straight away when you get home.  Family, work, new girl.. those can all wait but we here at RWD are eagerly awaiting the conclusion of your journey!

[Kuna]

OK, I’ll admit it!  I’m in love!

I need to tell you, I didn’t think I would go to Ukraine and fall so completely in love on my first trip.

In my real life I’m logical to a point of being frustrating to some people, yet I still have a creative drive that saved me from becoming an accountant. I think the creative drive was the thing made me feel like I do.

From our first meeting I knew something was different.  VERY different!  From my first taste I HAD to have more.

I’m so glad we could spend time together again before I left Kiev because my journey home would have been all the more difficult if I didn’t get to say goodbye.

On cold days I felt warm.  When it rained it didn’t matter.  When the winds picked up on the weekend I couldn’t have cared less.  It is a feeling I think I’ll remember for a very long time.

When did you first have Solyanka in Ukraine? What I really want to know is “WHY has this soup not become famous around the world?”

The first time I had it was in Shato on Kreshetic and then I found you could get it in small fast food outlets dotted all around the city. It was very inexpensive, around AU$2 per bowl INCLUDING a piece of bread.

My daily deliberations over food were finished.  Every time I needed to eat, I only wanted to eat Solyanka!

If only the feelings for girls could be so strong and undeniable!

 

[Kuna]

Off to Dnepropetrovsk

As you know I was deliberating over going to Dnepropetrovsk to see Ms D for 1 night but finally I thought “Damn it! I’ve come this far I may as well go to see her at home.”

I’d arranged a 9:10am flight and my guide recommended we leave for the airport at 7am and while I thought it was a bit early I had to trust his judgement.  As usual he turned up 30 minutes early but I’ll post a separate topic on my thoughts regarding guides.

After a lot of mucking around I arrived at the airport in plenty of time and was my way to see Ms D... or so I thought so!

It was a little confusing when I arrived because I was very early and the Areosvit office was open, but no one was inside.  The check-in desks were empty but there were probably 100 people standing around with similar expressions on their faces as me.

When I saw a young lady in the Aerosvit office I went over to ask when the check in would start and she told me 08:10 and then explained there were delays for flights into Dnepropetrovsk. I asked how long, she said 1 hour. 

Cool! I could grab some breakfast, pretend to read a Russian Language newspaper and diversify my experiences in Ukraine by doing something that many people would regard as wasted time.

After a while I went to the television screens but couldn’t see my flight listed anymore so I went back over to the Aerosvit desk to ask when we would be departing.  She said she didn’t know but I should go to the other desk in the far right corner.

The lady in here explained there were delays into Dnepropetrovsk and when I asked again about the departure time she wrote down 15:00.  OHHHH NOOOO… I would be at the airport seven and a half hours.

Well, there’s no point complaining, when there’s fog there’s fog so I set about finding the most interesting person I could find to talk to and then spotted a beautiful girl of about 22 years old who’d been waiting for as long as me and looked far more inviting than the taxi drivers that were trying to talk me into a $300 cab fare to Dnepr.

Oksana was from Dnepropetrovsk but had been in Kiev visiting a friend.  I couldn’t help but think her friend was an “International Date” but there was no way to tell because she was friendly, but secretive.

She asked my why I was going to Dnepr and I explained that I was going to visit my friend, but we would return to Kiev tomorrow.

The conversation was great.  We talked about life, education, careers, men, women, men and women and her hopes for the future.

She was a really nice girl though definitely too young for me... and besides, I was going to her home city to meet my own "very special friend".

It struck me that I’ve met many interesting people but there is definitely no valid stereo type for the men or the women.  Yes, there are definite cultural differences but it’s just not possible to group them into lots as the dating sites would want us to do.

Finally we boarded our flight and it was purely by chance that Oksana was sitting next to me so we got to continue our conversation for another hour.

This girl was really smart and would standout like a beacon in the night in my own town, yet in Kiev she seemed to be one of many beautiful AND intelligent girls.

On arrival we said our goodbyes and I set off to find Ms D. 

I wasn’t expecting her to be waiting because she said it might be difficult to get away from work but I should wait at the airport if she was not there on-time.

I had a look around and didn’t see her so found a seat to continue my day of "Quiet Contemplation".

I was getting concerned so I tried calling her mobile phone from a payphone (because there was no coverage for my mobile) but there was no answer. I called at about 10 minture intervals in case should couldn’t hear the earlier rings but still no answer.

Finally I thought I’d call her office because she might have an extended delay but the girl on reception said Ms D had left the office some time ago and wouldn’t be back that day.

I was getting concerned and started to develop contingencies in case she didn’t turn up and ultimately I decided that I would call Cindy Agency and arrange an apartment, stay in town for the weekend instead of returning to Kiev, and try some “speed dating” if necessary.

Finally I went outside to have a look at the frozen car park and after a few minutes I see Ms D approaching me with a look on her face like she was on the verge of crying.

She had been waiting at the International gates for over an hour because that was the only area of the airport she knew from her study travels to Gemany.

Finally after a very sweet greeting we head off in search of transport and prepared for a rushed, but hopefully pleasant evening together.

I was very happy not to have to use Cindy Agengy but even more happy to see my friend again.

I wanted to take a taxi but she insisted it was too expensive and it would be better to get the bus to the train station where we would get my ticket for the next day.  We found the bus and it was empty except for 1 other person so I thought I’d go with the flow and let her take control of saving us some money.

Off we go at a ridiculously slow pace and stop after stop people get on until the seats and the aisle are full.  When people had to get off it was a virtual wrestling match to get to the door.

Finally we made it to the train station and we walk through the slush and snow and around the corner to another building where I could get my ticket.

Of course Ms D takes control and explains to the cashier that we need 1 ticket but we want to change her ticket so we can sit together.  There was an extended conversation, some confusion and more conversation before she turned to me again looking like she was about to cry and said we wouldn’t be able to sit together because my ticket was the last seat on the train and there was no way to rearrange the seating.

Oh great, 6 hours on a train and we weren’t going to be sitting together.  This trip to Dnepr was starting to look like a train wreck… and I felt my first pangs of disappointment I’d made a hasty decision to come to town.

Finally the optimist inside realized that we were actually very lucky because we just got the last seat and if we didn’t get that I would be probably flying back.  I think sometimes when we travel we’ve just got to take life as it comes and try to find new opportunities whenever we can.

That was effectively my transit from Kiev to Dnepropetrovsk.  It was a frustrating day but one that opened new experiences and insights for me.  I'd met another interesting person and had some time for thinking but now I was ready for dinner and some sleep, and was very happy to spending just a little more time with Ms D.

[Kuna]

Our Night in Dnepropetrovsk

Ms D was very tired from her day at work and I felt like I hadn’t showered in days but we both needed to eat.  I asked Ms D what her favourite restaurant was in town and she said she didn’t really have one because she didn’t often eat out.  She did say she’d heard of one place which was supposed to be very good so we decided to go there.

I convinced her were could just take a taxi instead of the bus and after a short exchange about saving money (and her distrust of taxi drivers) she agreed… but only because we were both tired and hungry.  The cab fare was only 20 UAH which was a bargain that would lead to us being able to relax and enjoy each others company more quickly.

When we arrived at Spartar (I think that was the name… but I’ll check and confirm) I was impressed with a very intimate ambiance and lots of friendly staff with crisp white shirts and big white smiles.

We were lead to a table around the back and were seated in a large comfortable booth facing very large fish tanks alive with a wide assortment of tropical fish.

At the table next to us there was an American who was obviously entertaining his own Internet Date and on the other side there were 3 girls sharing a night out.

I hadn’t been in Dnepropetrovsk long but I was already very impressed with the number of beautiful women I saw on the streets.  Maybe it was because it was a Friday night and they were out shopping or relaxing but I would say there were as high a proportion of beauties here as there are in Kiev, and to me they had a more appealing style than the girls in Kiev.

I’ve got to say there’s a lot of “glam” in the capital, but to me it looks a little fake.  I not saying girls from Kiev are bad, but I was liking what I was seeing in Dnepr.

When the menu’s came out I was relaxed and not surprised that the prices were very reasonable and we after choosing we had a lovely dinner with drinks that totaled 120 UAH. 

This was my best priced meal in Ukraine considering we both had solyanka (soup), mains (I had a delicious seafood medley called “Neptune’s Harvest of the Sea”, she had a pork dish with mushrooms), Ms D had wine (semi-sweet Georgian of course) and I had a beer that I didn’t quite finish for fear of falling asleep.

After dinner she wanted to take me up to a new shopping centre to show me a store the company she works for had just opened, and one she had a direct hand in negotiating.  I still haven’t worked out exactly what she does in her daily job but I know she’s a lawyer, likes working with documents, acts as an English and German translator and even helps with the physical stocking of shelves when the company opens a new store (Though she told me she does this for extra money because the odd working hours and demanding time frame gives her some extra money in her pay from time to time).

This newly opened shopping centre was beautiful and every bit as functional as you’d find in the west.  Her companies store was literally the most impressive store of its type I’ve ever seen and I could understand why she was proud of her work.  As we approached a girl on the counter saw Ms D and gave her a very friendly greeting that seemed to include a “who is the man” look.  Ms D was a little embarrassed and said that they know her in this store and they would be wondering now who I was.

She hasn’t told her employers or colleagues of her hope to marry overseas because she believes it will cause her some problems at work.  She says it’s not their business and when they need to know they can know, but for now it’s best to be silent.

After having a walk around the store we decide to head home for some much needed sleep.  We have to be up at 5 in the morning to catch the 6 o’clock train and that doesn’t leave much time for anything else we might have had in mind.

Again I talk her into getting a taxi but she’s very upset the taxi driver will charge us 25UAH. She tells me she gets the bus to work and would never catch a taxi because they just rip people off.

If I’d counted the number of times I’d caught a taxi during this trip and felt ripped off I would struggle to go outside of the trips arranged by my guide… but let’s not go back there!

I think Ms D is very price conscious and when she says “ripped off” she probably means “too expensive”.

When we arrive in her street I’m surprised (I think) to see the street in very bad repair but the trees and small parks give me an impression of a very happy place in summer.  Of course tonight its freezing cold and the water filled potholes the size of a small swimming pool and snow piled footpaths make negotiating a dry exit from the taxi a bit of a challenge.

Two young girls (yes, two very attractive young girls) arrive as we’re getting out of the taxi and I notice they’re standing at the door smoking cigarettes and drinking what looks to be premixed vodka drinks.  I thought this was strange but don’t say anything and Ms D and I enter the building without comment from her either.

We go up some stairs and into a lift, through one door and then another into her apartment.

Her families apartment is large and very neat and tidy.  She shows me around and we end up in the lounge room where she pulls out family photo albums and she shows me her parents in happier times, her bother and sisters families and grandparents pics.

The photos of her as a child are adorable and I can see she had very happy times.  Dressed in costumes at school and family outings seemed to be regular occurrences and I wonder when and how her parents marriage started to fail.

It’s a very intimate time for us because I can see she is revealing her history to me and sharing her family stories.  Not all of those stories are pleasant but I’m very happy she could share them with me and feel comfortable enough to not just talk about the good times.

Finally we ready for bed and she says it would be better to sleep in her mothers room so she makes up that bed and we settle in for a short but very refreshing sleep.

In the morning I’m startled when she wakes me at 5:25 am because I thought we should have left by then.  I jump up and rush to get ready and by the time I’m done I notice she’s still in her dressing gown doing her hair and makeup.

It turns out that the train departs at 6:45 and I remain confused whether the time differences were a part of the language barrier or whether she told me different times to make sure I was up and ready in time.

Either way we’re finally ready and the taxi she ordered is waiting downstairs, so we’re off to the train and another weekend in Kiev together.

[IAmZon]

First off - please - no more "To Be Continued"

Second - hate to say I foresaw all this ... But I forsaw all this:) 

I see you and her and three babies speaking an odd mixture of Aussie with a Ukrainian accent within 7 years - maybe 5.  It is all good!  For me, it is just a matter of filling in the blanks. 

GREAT TRIP REPORT.  Actually, if you take ALL your posts in their entirety, you have a fascinating (and very well written) story.

Your in Love?!?!  HA:)