pretrip report to ukraine, 2005

[anono]

hi turbo..  weel, from what i know, the parties are smaller in regards to the number of men. i talked to more than a few women about the other tours and to a woman, they all claimed to like jack parties. one reason why is how they are set up. the ladies told me (in fact i think it was an AFA party) the men would be at the bar looking the women over, who were seated across the room.

jack has all the women sitting at tables, 3 to maybe 8 at a table. there are at least 2 empty chairs , one for the man and his translator. every 10-15 minutes (voted on by the group after the first few parties) the man and his translator would swap tables and move from table to table. the men and the ladies get a chance to meet and talk with every lady.  if at the end of this "discussion period" you do not get to every table, you can mix with the ladies later, when most are dancing. they also take breaks during the table routine and play parlor games..  such as transfering apples or oranges between each other not using your hands, finding all the clothepins pinned on a girl while blindfolded. i have to admit these games were fun and everyone has a good time. he has a way of bringing everyone together and just having a good time.

i'd say the major difference is, the quality and number of men and the way the parties are conducted. they just seem to be more relaxed.

i met a girl at the kherson party and had a six-eight month relationship with her and did the k-1 before calling it off after living together for a few months last year.

[Leslie]

Welcome Home Robert!!

Any post trip reflections that you would like to share?

You had a real exciting trip and met some great looking women.  Think you will see any of these ladies on your next trip or is it back to the search?

Les

 

[Admin]

Sorry you got attacked for sharing your views. That seems to happen, even here. It is too bad people sometimes seem to want to attack the person rather than the ideas they express but it happens.

Turbo - I think there may be a bit of a difference. As I understand it, the previous reference to an "attack" was an attack by the moderator of that other board. I assume your reference to attacks here is that occasionally some outspoken or passionate member of this board will take issue with something and make their points very strongly - perhaps too strongly.

If you have seen any incidents where I (as the moderator) attacked someone's ideas or posts, please let me know as I take some pride in the fact that there is much less censorship here than many other boards. While some (a few) have complained about the lack of moderation/censorship - most have encouraged it.

- Dan

[Turboguy]

Hi Dan,

Yes, I was refering to the occasional ranting by a member and nothing at all about moderators or you.    I was not aware the attack was by a moderator.  That is really bad.  You are doing a great job with this board Dan.   

I realize how tough the choices in a forum like this are.  I have a forum myself in the industry I work in.   It is not quite as active but still has about 9000 posts and it is very polite.  Before I started mine there was another that is now gone that was like a battle zone.   I do mine about the same as you.  I never censor but try to keep the attitudes positive.   You are doing very well Dan.  This is a great site.

Anono, thanks for telling me how the parties work.  I have not talked to too many ladies that really liked the way EC and AFA do thier socials.  They guys like it just fine.  It is nice being a little island of men in a sea of women.   EC does a lot of the games too.  They are fun and the gals seem to like them a lot.  I am glad Jack is doing that too.  It sounds like he has a good program. 

[anono]

turbo, i should have been sure to add it was a moderator. i think i did type cameragurl. he was the moderator who would be the first to make a remark after i would post anything positive about jack bragg or firstdream. seems they have a chip on their shoulders. i just want to state the facts as i see them. some things i do differently than jack. for instance, while i have encouraged a boyhood friend of the family to go some of jacks parties, i doubt i'll go to another party unless it was to help jack or be the "photographer" like i was at a kiev party. i am a photographer with an emphasis in video so a SLR film camera that is not mine i feel a little uncomfortable with but it was fun just to help out.

i've never had a comment made to me by a moderator on this board.

les, thanks for the welcome home and i'll answer your question but i want to say to those who do not know the history here, now is a good time to remind. my first trip to the ukraine was may 2003. so it was some time before that where i stumbled upon RWG. les was posting his first trip reports, i think richard (rvrwind) TR's were to follow. i think there were a coupe other good TR's at the time but i read everything les posted.  we also talked by phone and a "friendship" ensued. we keep up with each other mostly by occassional emails and a phone call now and then.

when i am in ukraine and i am asked how did i start to look in the ukraine, i tell them this story.

i run into someone in ukraine from time to time who will tell me they've read my TR's and it might have helped inspire them to make the trip. this is what being a skydiving instructor is like. you are giving back to the sport. if someone excels in their life and i can have had anything to do with contributing to it, i'm a happy guy.

post trip reflections.

i remember sitting in my window seat on my little tiny regional jet connecting flight home looking at the ground while waiting to take off thinking..  and feeling a little, not depressed but sad maybe, that i was going home. i have things i have to do and it feels good to be back in the sense i can take care of everything. i also am glad i'm here just long enough to do those things and i've already started the process of making my return trip. already call the agent to set up my flight, i'll pay myself from my company and see how close it comes to covering my trip..do all those banking things that need to be done every month. i'm planning another two months in ukraine with a possible trip into russia.

les, i did meet some beautiful women. i met "o" and i'd say she was a 9 in her professional photos and an 8 in person. not only did he look good, she is a nice lady. she has her head on straight and i am passing up someone who would make a good companion, but maybe a better one for someone else.

i met ms. khazakstan, but i thought my terp was better looking so let's just say it was a dog fight there...  :-)

and i met a few others ladies where a guy back here would saw their pinkie off to have a date with...  i am looking for something pretty specific..  so, i think i am going to meet as many of the ladies i did not have the time to meet this trip. i will hire a driver and go to city to city, staying or leaving as i want. i'll take the first two or three weeks and just visit everyone. then i'll have over a month to spend with the one or two i may go back to see a second time.

simple exposure to day to day life over there is an opportunity. i saw the best looking lady on my flight from moscow to kiev start up conversation with the chubby, very average to bad looking ukrainain man (in a suit) sitting a seat over from her. they talk most of the flight and he ends up writing his number down and she accepted it.

the more time i spend over there, the easier it is for me to try and walk up to ladies on the street or in a shop. there was one lady at the mcdonalds on independence square. i was with dasha. i wanted to walk up to this lady and i should have while she was in line at macdonalds. i made the mistake of waiting outside for her. when i walked up, she acted like she did not hear me and got into a taxi waiting for her. of course, she was a 10 and used to men walking up uninvited but what the hell. you gotta try.

i will go through ukraine first and i can see myself going back to tver. it depends on what happens.

when is a good time to call les?

 

 

[ConnerVT]

Thanks for this, and all the other posts yuo've put in various places,  Like Les, Rvr, and many others, your experiences help others get a more rounded picture of how different the experience can be.

and i met a few others ladies where a guy back here would saw their pinkie off to have a date with... 

I have to admit, when I first read this sentence, a misread word had a completely different vision in my head...

[jb]

By comparision, anono, you have set yourself a near impossible task.  The woman you seek is out there, I'm sure, and I sincerely hope you eventually find her.

Few of us have such stringent requirements.  I admire your ability to stay the course, and at the same time I wonder if you haven't missed out on a lot of very happy times.  In my view there comes a time when a man has to say to himself, "the chase is over, this is the best woman I'm ever going to find".   It brings to mind the old joke about the math professor standing in front of the blackboard filled with numbers and equations, and he has to pause and wonder, "what was the original problem?".  

My only words to you are; don't get so involved in the search that you forget the goal.

[Landscaper]

Hi anono,

Thanks for the trip report, but I'd have to agree with jb. It seems like you're having a really tough time finding someone who meets your standards of perfection. I remember all the problems you had on "that other" board too, but wasn't that more than a year ago? Is this the thread you keep referring to?

http://www.rwguide.com/thread_22105_split_from_tr's.html

Do you think there could be any psychological issues that would make you reject a lady because the color of her eyes and refuse to let go of the past? Just a thought...

Good luck,

Landscaper      

 

[jb]

Hi Landscaper,

It is possible we have given anono some food for thought.  

I have known anono for a couple of years, via the forum medium, both here and on the "other board".  Nothing he has ever said, here or there, has led me to believe he has a psychological issue to deal with. (what-do-I-know?  He may be as crazy as a loon, he willingly jumps out of perfectly functional airplanes, which is my definition of crazy anyway)

I think he is just extraordinarily fussy.  I do not see anything wrong with that.  However, from the length of visits, the amount of time and resources expended, number of trips, etc., he has been unlucky in finding the woman of his dreams so far.

Perhaps it is time to reassess the goals of the adventure. Time to sh*t or get off the pot, as it were.

[BC]

Perhaps it is time to reassess the goals of the adventure. Time to sh*t or get off the pot, as it were.

Also been following anonos' trips from the beginning I think.. I don't believe I could ever work so hard to find a wife

Maybe over the years he has accumulated too many good choices and simply can't make up his mind...

Might be time for him to post bio's of the 10 best choices and the board can go into conclave to sort it out by secret ballot  

[Turboguy]

I can't really knock his efforts.   I have been doing this longer than some of you have been shaving.   I had a real problem when I started that there were so many drop dead georgeous gals that I was worried that if I settled for one gal,  a better one would come along and I would spend the rest of my life kicking myself.    I won't say I made as many trips or met as many ladies as Anono but I sure did write a bunch.  

I think I finally woke up to the fact that I was coming home to a cold lonely bed with a big stack of letters and photos that were not much company.  I probably kicked myself a bit for not just wrapping up one from Kiev who was a really wonderful gal and that was back in 96 or so.  Or the one in Perm in 98 or ...................  Sure, there may be someone better out there but there is no perfect person.  

Well about a year ago I think I realized that although the hunt was fun, I was getting to the point where they could run faster than I could which took a bit of the fun out of the chase.  I set out to bring the hunt to a close and I have made a lot of trips in the past year.   I thought I found a winner a time or two only to find out otherwise but ended up with a great gal, at least it looks that way.    Even though we are on other sides of the world for a while yet, I am happy to put the hunt behind me and want to go about sharing a happy life with someone special and I do have a very special lady.  Not perfect, but very special.   I am sure Anono will find the right gal when it is time.  In the meanwhile it sounds like he is having fun hunting, perhaps deep down in he really doesn't want to catch one yet and just wants to hunt for a while.   There is nothing wrong with that as long as he does not leave to many broken hearts along the way.   

[jb]

I've always been uncomfortable with looking for the "perfect" woman because I'm so imperfect myself.  Warts and all, we have to eventually recognize what is best for the future, and deal with it.  

I'm sure these thoughts are running through anono's mind as I write them.

[Turboguy]

I know what you mean about the perfect woman.  When I was hunting for American women I was happy if they had their own teeth and could sit in a chair without it breaking.   

I think one of the problems is that the Russian women almost seem so perfect you think you might find "Perfect" if you hunt long enough.

[jb]

Please define "perfect"...

[Turboguy]

Perfect would mean different things to different people.  A perfect Amercan woman has at least 20 teeth and can put both feet on the scale at the same time without it bottoming out.

The perfect woman in general would have a personality like the nurse you would dream of having if you were really sick, would have the looks of a magazine model which is actaully easy to find in the FSU, would have a wonderful body which she shares just with you.  She would be very educated and in a profession that would pay big bucks in the USA so you are prepared when Social Security goes backrupt on your 65th birthday.    She should be at least 20 years younger so she can support you till you are 85.  That is enough to keep most normal men happy but I do realize that some peopel want more.

My own personal idea of perfect is doesn't break mirrors, taller than she is wide, has moments when she is not scraming.   Does't drink till she is out of bed and doesn't get out of bed too much.   Smiles once in a while when she is not screaming.  I think I will do a post over on Married about cooking and my real gal.

[jb]

The perfect woman in general would have a personality like the nurse you would dream of having if you were really sick, would have the looks of a magazine model which is actaully easy to find in the FSU, would have a wonderful body which she shares just with you.  She would be very educated and in a profession that would pay big bucks in the USA so you are prepared when Social Security goes backrupt on your 65th birthday.    She should be at least 20 years younger so she can support you till you are 85.  That is enough to keep most normal men happy but I do realize that some peopel want more.

My wife meets most of your criteria, altho she is not 20 years my junior,  I don't expect to live to reach 85.

However, I'd add to the list:

Someone who cares for you.
Someone who places you above herself.
Someone who carefully monitors your money more closely than you.
Someone who defends you when you are not present.
And,,, the list could go on and on....

Good looks not withstanding, there's more to a mate than most men really understand.

[anono]

good posts guys...some truth to some of it but i'll try and explain.

"perfect" the way i use it here, is what is perfect for me. i also recognize this is a two way street and i try and look at it from the ladies perspective and hope i am perfect for her.

i have dated beautiful AW in my past. my mother and two sisters are beautiful women so i am not intimated as much as some men are by beauty. U/RW has raised that bar considerably. i still have some difficulty walking up to a total knockout and maintain my sense of confidence.

when i have a meeting with a lady, i usualy get around to explaining there are three major areas, along with a lot of other areas of course, which i think are necessary to maintain a long term relationship of any kind. one is having similar levels of intelligence, two is having similar hearts or souls, meaning two hearts looking for the same or similar thing, and (three) good close relations. i go on to say that if one or more of those levels are not similar, there will be problems sustaining a relationship. i have met women who had two of the three going for them but were lacking in one of those major areas.

also, if i am going to try and make something like this actually happen, bring a woman back into my world and my family (limited as that may be depending on my family) this is going to have to be one remarkable lady. i want to do this once and do it with as close to what i consider perfect as possible.

most of my trips were to go back and spend time with one lady. i have had two major girlfriends. my first trip was 10 days in kiev just to see for myself. my second trip i met svetlana. third and fourth trip was to go back and see her. fifth trip i met dasha. sixth trip was to see her, seventh to witness the orange revolution and see a couple ladies, one i have a good friendship. the other was new. so all this time i have had in ukraine, a smmall portion of it was actually meeting ladies.

i do know what i am looking for, it gets further refined with each trip. if brown eyes are just too plain for me, they are too plain. some guys only want a blonde. hair color is a lot easier to change than eye color and i look deep enough to see what their true colors are.

i am sure i have passed up some very good women but we are not for everybody are we? today i received an email from an agency that was given my contact information by a lady i have been trying to meet for a year. i spent my last two days in kiev trying  to meet her and it turns out she "found her love" over the weekend. she was snatched right out from underneath me. she could have been the one, but i'll never know now. it's the risk we take. i have been dealing well with the risks for far. as jb says, it's how you define crazy :-)  i look at some of the things rockclimbers do and say "no way". i am sure there are rock climbers that see what i do and say "no way". the guys who are really puzzled are pilots. there are two kinds of pilots; those that go down with the airplane and those who jump. those who go down with the airplane do not understand those of us who will jump any better than i'll understand why they go down with the airplane...

i came close with one lady, i went as far as the k-1. but had i continued and not paid attention to that inner voice, i am sure it would not have been the relationship i am looking for...

[BC]

Looking around at some of the pics of married couples here and elsewhere I don't see real 'model' couples. Yes good looking couples where the wife does seem quite 'fit' and maybe a bit younger and good looking but not models for the most part.

Happy compatible couples that found common ground but not the 'optical lure' appearing on homepage hype of RW/UW sites.

nothing wrong with that.. 'Perfect' is in the eye of the beholder.

[jb]

anono,

As you've probably figured out, I'm a pilot.  I've driven about everything from a B-26 on down to a Cessna 150, and I've never seen the need to jump out of a perfectly good  airplane.  Until the engines swallow their tongues and turn themselves into boat anchors, I'll ride the bit*ch home. Jumping is your choice.

I've never been one to compare that experience to picking a woman to marry.  Actually, I was more concerned with her ability to put up with my wild and crazy BS than me being able to deal with her needing a new sewing machine.  The gentler sex have very different needs than we do.  It takes a lot of patience to deal with a woman, AW, or RW, I'm sure you already know that.

It is my guess you've already passed up more than one good woman in your zeal for the perfect mate, you've alluded to as much before.  I wish you well, just don't sit on the fence too long.  Life is happening while you ponder.

[anono]

we skydivers have a saying. "we know why the birds sing".

as a pilot, i know how you'll winch at this one. if i have a parachute and we reach 3000' the airplane becomes secondary.

i can fly pilot in command up to a 185RG and i've sat right seat in many types, mostly in the commander. i love flying. but without the aircraft, it's even more real.

i would not trade my decade of skydiving for anything.

it's all good.

i'm already getting things ready to return to ukraine. if i could take my toys over there, i'd be tempted to spend six months of the year in one stretch. but i think i'd get bored after awhile living in kiev. doubt they need an english speaking skydiving instructor over at the chaika sports complex. i did ride the go-karts there. any time i am in a big city i try and find the drop zone or race tracks. there is a drop zone just outside of tver. the russian 4-way team placed third in the last world meet. i think we beat the french for first place. as it should be.

[jb]

anono,

Right after I got my SEL rating, I flew a Cessna 185 for the University of Michigan's sky diving club just to build PIC hours.  They had stripped the aircraft interior of everything but the pilots seat in order to cram more jumpers in, and I usually took off with less than 10 gallons of fuel just to get it under gross.... Ah~! those were the days

[anono]

i've met quite a few pilots getting their hours taking us to altitude. most never jumped but we got a few to go for it.

[jb]

LOL,, I was born at night,,,, but not last night.

There's no way you are going to get me to willingly jump from a perfectly good airplane.

Stuff it, fat boy~!

[anono]

we have another saying "there is no such thing as a perfectly good airplane". :-)

[ConnerVT]

we have another saying "there is no such thing as a perfectly good airplane". :-)

And there's such a thing as a "Perfectly good parachute?"

As for the French team only finishing second, I hear they have a new statagy for next year -- leaving the parachutes on the airplane. (The judges score: 10 - 10 - 10 - and a 1 from the French judge...).

To keep this post on topic (uhh... RW), here is a recovered mistake I made one time.  While having dinner at my (now) in-laws, we were discussing my father-in-laws time in the Soviet military as a paratrooper.  He made quite a number of jumps during his service.    After previous discussions about sometimes the military would be ... uh... poorly provisioned or equiped, I jokingly commented "... with a Russian parachute?"  All eyes were on me as Papa spoke how glorious his parachute was, the Sprite d'Corp in his voice and eyes.  Knowing I stepped into dangerous territory, I said, "I'm sure you thought that every time you saw that canopy open!"  His laughter was enough to calm all the nervous people at the table.