I need Advice.

[Jazzyclassy]

oh well good luck to you:)

I have nothing to advise:)

am glad you are down to earth  that will help you along your trip:)

[LEGAL]

I have nothing to advise:)

 How kind  of you! 


Good point of view of VWRW 

But please, do not teach other people how it is better for them to find some distraction. It is not your business to decide what is better for them. 

Olga.

[I/O]

It is better for WHO? If it is better for you or I/O…then do it so! But please, do not teach other people how it is better for them to find some distraction. It is not your business to decide what is better for them.

Me's a tad confoosed 'bout dis.  What's I/O got to do with this? ??? ???


I/O

[Jazzyclassy]

       It is better for WHO? If it is better for you or I/O…then do it so! But please, do not teach other people how it is better for them to find some distraction. It is not your business to decide what is better for them.

Me's a tad confoosed 'bout dis.  What's I/O got to do with this? 

           

That is what I am trying to tell , why they mentioned I/O's name here, I am totally confused

[I/O]

That is what I am trying to tell , why they mentioned I/O's name here, I am totally confused

J/C  Me thinks someone made an assumtion about who is engaged to who. Maybe it's time to get Jon in here, then it might be assumed you are engaged to two guys.   Even more confoooooooooosion then.

I/O

[Jazzyclassy]

       J/C  Me thinks someone made an assumtion about who is engaged to who.  Maybe it's time to get Jon in here, then it might be assumed you are engaged to two guys.    Even more confoooooooooosion then.

I/O         

hahaha yeah he will be laughing:)

[LEGAL]

I/O You were here buddy  


LEGAL

[Mir]

Jazzy

Well you wouldn't know how some rich men risk their lives jumping in the unknown for various reasons. Richard Bronson to name one.Anyway I don't think going to Kiev and Odessa is anymore risky then going to London or Paris.Personally the two times I was a victim of credit card crime was in Paris and Chicago!

I/O

It is the confusion you created by your post welcoming JazzyC that is persisting despite your clarifications!

[Zoro]

I met my wife in this manner after exclusively using agencies and free personals for two years. Don't put all your eggs in the agency basket, diversify and spread out, there is no single method that will guarantee you won't be fleeced.

I have read your trip reports, Groovistk, and for you there was quite a "learning curve".   You must have made half a dozen trips, many using agencies.  So you were experienced in the lay of the land in the fsu when you met your wife.

And I'm glad you met your wife online, without agency assist. But I question your advising a newbie to go it alone, without agency support.   You advise not to put all "your eggs in one basket," but there is one basket~~icq ~~that newbies should not use until they have multiple trips under their belt.

Makkin~ Go alone in a bar and you may get drugged.  Meet a girl online, and you may discover she also has a boyfriend with a steel bar.

Heed the advise of most here, and use an agency. It will cost you only a few bucks, and you will have girls who pass agency standards for listing.  Look at the poll at this site...the vast majority of men who have been successful here met their girls via the agency route.  After making 6 trips to the FSU, maybe you can go it alone like Groovistk.  But until then, use a dependable agency.

[LEGAL]

This is more interesting than my day in court 


LEGAL

[BC]

I have read your trip reports, Groovistk, and for you there was quite a "learning curve".   You must have made half a dozen trips, many using agencies.  So you were experienced in the lay of the land in the fsu when you met your wife.

And I'm glad you met your wife online, without agency assist. But I question your advising a newbie to go it alone, without agency support.   You advise not to put all "your eggs in one basket," but there is one basket~~icq ~~that newbies should not use until they have multiple trips under their belt.

Makkin~ Go alone in a bar and you may get drugged.  Meet a girl online, and you may discover she also has a boyfriend with a steel bar.

Heed the advise of most here, and use an agency. It will cost you only a few bucks, and you will have girls who pass agency standards for listing.  Look at the poll at this site...the vast majority of men who have been successful here met their girls via the agency route.  After making 6 trips to the FSU, maybe you can go it alone like Groovistk.  But until then, use a dependable agency.

Biggest load of BS I have seen posted here so far..

Go to the FSU and as long as you aren't looking for trouble you won't get it.  It's sorta like talking people out of visiting southern Italy because of the Mafia.. - and I live here.

I don't know what poll you are looking at but I do not see the 'vast majority' of successful men meeting their mates via agencies that you do...

FWIW

[LEGAL]

It is  the content of ones charactor not the content of ones wealth nor should anyone use that to chastise  someone in a public forum.

I find it very interesting how a young woman sitting in Moscow can give authoritative advice to American men in American culture.   I would like to know how many men sitting in America are giving advice to Russian woman having never even been to Russia?    ???

LEGAL

[Mir]

An interesting article by a recent visitor to Ukraine along with some helpful advice.

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/travel/sns-trvmain2-wk4,0,3479142.story?coll=sns-travel-headlines

[Mir]

Beautifully written as well

[groovlstk]

I have read your trip reports, Groovistk, and for you there was quite a "learning curve".   You must have made half a dozen trips, many using agencies.  So you were experienced in the lay of the land in the fsu when you met your wife.

Thanks, man!

And I'm glad you met your wife online, without agency assist. But I question your advising a newbie to go it alone, without agency support.   You advise not to put all "your eggs in one basket," but there is one basket~~icq ~~that newbies should not use until they have multiple trips under their belt.

Why is ICQ any less dangerous than using an agency? I talked with dozens of FSU women via ICQ and didn't encounter any sharks (or at least never got to a point in those relationships where the teeth were revealed). Chat is not a very efficient medium for scamming--almost all of the women I chatted with did so via work computers (read: they had decent jobs and weren't using internet cafes, which are favored by scammers for the cloak of anonymity they provide). Also, the immediacy of live chat makes using pre-written scam letters quite useless. Our i-net cafe-cruising Yuris can find much more fertile ground at freepersonals.ru and large or unethical marriage agencies.

That said, there are dangers involved in using ICQ or even the most honest marriage agency. I've written of this before, but the foremost danger is getting attached to an otherwise decent woman who is so desperate for a better life that she's willing to take a chance on marrying a guy she doesn't know very well. Under the best of circumstances, she trusts her mule and genuinely hopes to fall in love with him. But what are the odds of success? I have no stats, but I'd bet "longshot" is about the best description. I met my share of these women at various agencies and dated another gaggle right here in the US before I met my wife. The latter women all came to the US on K1s or K3s with the highest hopes only to find they were incompatible with their one or two-week wonders, and now they're looking for the real thing and have the luxury of taking their time.

Maybe I'm giving most new guys too much credit, but I think spending a weekend reading the many TRs and posts about logistics here can give a guy enough knowledge to chart his own path.

[BC]

Solid post Groov..

Your experience is worth much more than conjecture.

[LEGAL]

Hello,

 Actually I do have a plan to meet the burned child and my friend who is coming along with me has people to meet and such so I would not say I don't have a plan..lol I am just interested in meeting a few ladies at this point and am doing what it takes to do this.
 Makkin

Oh yes ....now it should be clear for everybody , a few ladies? is that how you call  some very doubtful traveling  in modern language

similar with Mr.Prohorov (some new russian business man ) in French resort , he was also meeting a few ladies:)

Jazzy,
I don't think it's fair to compare Makkin with Mr. Prokhorov.

http://www.wikio.com/search=Mr+Prokhorov.rss

Olga.

[Zoro]

I don't know what poll you are looking at but I do not see the 'vast majority' of successful men meeting their mates via agencies that you do...

... worth much more than conjecture.

Conjecture?  No....not at all~ rather, data...See the poll at this site~  see at http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=2904.0

But I should have said "most," and not "vast majority".

Still, more than 60% met their wives or GFs online or via an agency...

So, agencies should not easily be discounted, as some were advising here...

[Zoro]

I talked with dozens of FSU women via ICQ and didn't encounter any sharks (or at least never got to a point in those relationships where the teeth were revealed).

Perhaps I overstated my doubts about ICQ; however, remember I was referring to advising someone like Makkin to go blind into the FSU without agency or guide support to meet a girl he had chatted with on ICQ.  I still maintain that practice is for more experienced guys like you, Groovistk.

On his first trip, he had a local girl to guide him :-) LOL 

But can you imagine the newbie who arrives in the FSU and has to deal with getting a taxi and then getting to the apartment and then using the skeleton key to get into the apartment?  Those things are learned from experience.

Start with a guide supporting you Makkin, or use an agency to provide you a terp and an apartment and access to a list of girls you can meet.  Save the free lance stuff for later on...

[LEGAL]

  Very well said.

LEGAL

[I/O]

It all comes back to the "KenC" idea presented some time ago as being the most logical and ethical.  Maybe arrange to meet one lady via online methods and also form an association with an on the ground agent, front load the trip with meetings and leave the backend of the trip open. 

The agent can or should be able to provide the logistical support early on and also meetings with women if the visitor goes that way.  This gives the degree of security for the freshman and flexibility to play his own game as and when he chooses.

I/O

[LEGAL]

I/O I absolutely agree with you. These new guys need to think safety with their big head  I never go anywhere without a backup plan.

LEGAL

[LEGAL]

WOW 
even to toilet?  ???

Olga 

[groovlstk]

Perhaps I overstated my doubts about ICQ; however, remember I was referring to advising someone like Makkin to go blind into the FSU without agency or guide support to meet a girl he had chatted with on ICQ.  I still maintain that practice is for more experienced guys like you, Groovistk.

On his first trip, he had a local girl to guide him :-) LOL

I agree, I didn't intend to condone a guy going it alone and unarmed on his first trip to the FSU. Although I don't think the odds of getting drugged and fleeced are even remotely as possible as the likelihood of him spending his time isolated and unable to communicate, ultimately seeking out expat bars and having a dreadful time.

I'd wager that a new guy who chats for a day or two on ICQ with women at his intended destination will yield a handful of friends who are willing to meet him. One thing I find so blessedly disarming about women in that part of the world is that they don't have the same inhibitions that Western women have--meaning they don't assume you're a psychopath and that it's your (painstaking and excruciating) obligation to convince them otherwise before they hand over personal details. Many girls will be willing to meet you and show you around (even those who aren't interested in you romantically--it's simply interesting for them to meet a foreigner).

I'm not philosophically opposed to using agencies, quite the contrary. I simply think it's in a man's best interest to diversify and not rely on a single source during his time in Russia or Ukraine. For the most part I was treated fairly by the agencies I used, but at the same time I was nickel and dimed to death and my comings and goings were a bit too "controlled" for my liking.

[BC]

Conjecture?  No....not at all~ rather, data...See the poll at this site~  see at http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=2904.0

But I should have said "most," and not "vast majority".

Still, more than 60% met their wives or GFs online or via an agency...

So, agencies should not easily be discounted, as some were advising here...

The question asked in the poll you mentioned was "How did you meet your wife or fiancee or serious girlfriend?"

If the poll asked just still married guys, the picture would probably be quite different.  Fiancee's and girlfriends come and go rather quickly around here..