Desperate or not? FSU women

[Kvinna]

On my first trip a good wage in Moscow was about $ 200.00 a month, in the smaller cities of Ukraine $ 60.00 was good.   Now the wages have become much higher but if they are tired of living in a one room apartment in a Stalin era building, look at what has happened to real estate.   To dream of a multi room new apartment for the average Russian is nearly an impossible dream.

Have to mention, this post about "white" wage. Don't forget Most of Russians have black salary, so it is even more high than you can imagine, also only few Russians has credit and other debt, plus if the Russians own real estate, it means they really own it

[I/O]

I think the worst thing, particularly about Russia is who can say with any certainty what the future holds.

T/G I think the East, like the Mid East lives on the hope that the West continues to look East for energy supplies.  The day this changes, both the East and the Mid East will get awfully ugly IMHO.

I/O

[Bruno]

On my first trip a good wage in Moscow was about ....

Yes, wage grow each year from a few %... but what about inflation... i remember my ex-wife having enough money on her bank account for buy a good car... in one week time, the value of these money was just enough for buy a Ferrari... in the matchbox model 

Here in Belgium, i am lucky... my income is linked to the index... if life become more expensive of 10%, my income raise of 10%... in Russia, income have raise of more slower that the life expense...

A good recent example of the better life in Russia :
Thousands of Retirees Protest Russian Pension Cutbacks
http://www.globalaging.org/pension/world/2005/cutbacks.htm

by the Jan. 1 law that gives retirees, the disabled and war veterans cash stipends instead of free benefits such as public transportation and medicine. Protesters charge that the payments don't match the benefits they are meant to replace.
...
Tamara Larionovna, 66, said a monthly compensation of $13 wasn't enough to pay for public transport costs, let alone medicine. "It's a robbery of retirees," she said.
...
The average monthly pension in Russia is about $80, but people of retirement age remember Soviet days when rents, medical care and utilities were free and food and many other basics were heavily subsidized by the state.
...
Many observers said protests were likely to grow when people start receiving heating and other utility bills for January. They will increase significantly after the Jan. 1 end of government subsidies.

And who will help all these retirees when they have not enough money for pay medical care, transport, food, etc... the younger generation who have already difficult for live... and what about the old widow who have loose her two son in tchechenia and who is alone... she can only die !!!

[Turboguy]

I can agree that for many life is far worse now than it was in Soviet days.  However back before the turn of the millennium not only were pay for pensioners and the army low but the payments were arriving 6 months late so from that standpoint things have improved.

I agree too that there are two kinds of income in the FSU but I think too the opportunities for the hidden incomes have improved with the economy. 

I think a pensioner with no children and no savings is definitely as we say up the creek without a paddle.  I am sure if you asked any of them as they sit along the underground crosswalks with tin cups out they will tell you the same.   I think as the economy improves this may too but it will not help those who find themselves in dire straights now.

[mspanky]

Yes and a light hearted joke about nationalaties (I have omitted Russia and or Ukraine for obvious reasons)

A worldwide survey was conducted by the UN. The only question asked was:

 "Would you please give your honest opinion about solutions to the food
 shortage in the rest of the world?"  

The survey was a huge failure,

In Africa they didn't know what 'food' meant,
In India they didn't know what 'honest' meant,
In Europe they didn't know what 'shortage' meant,
In China they didn't know what 'opinion' meant,
In the Middle East they didn't know what 'solution' meant,
In South America they didn't know what 'please' meant,
And in the USA they didn't know what 'the rest of the world' meant!

Mir,
  I know this is light hearted, but I wanted to respond.
 Though many Americans are not aware of world politics I have to say they do what what the rest of the world means. Americans are some of the most charitable people in the world. In every place I ever travelled there were American missionaries,charities and they sure are even willing to adopt foreign children,some with Aids and health issues though most of their own ignore them.

We may be loud, we may be brass but when it comes to a willingness to do something for the world,we care. There are tons of schools and programs where young American children participate in rasing money for charity to help the less fortunate in the world. We are charitable o the world. More so than any other country.

[Elen]

Smart Americans an the rest of the world

http://www.fishki.net/comment.php?id=18396  

[Mir]

m

Yes agreed there are lots of charitable Americans, Bill Gates being one of the prime examples.

The joke is about the ignorance of some (not all) Americans about the real issues that other people of the world face.
I think your responce is quite predictable from an American
And why do you feel upset when a Russian launches a defence when it is stated that bribery is the norm in Russia? And that as a statement rather then a joke.

[Wayne B]

Smart Americans an the rest of the world

http://www.fishki.net/comment.php?id=18396  

Elen, a funny site    I would like to add that here in America that we also have young and old people living in the streets   and our share of people that live from week to week and if prices keep going up.....I will be one of them!

[DKMM]

Inflation in Russia is about 9%.  Try to plan a fixed income on that!
So the average wage in Russia is up 50% in the past few years.  Yup, its up to just over $300 a month now.  But look how much prices have climbed!  You can't ever hope to buy your own place if you live in Russia without being above average salary or living in a communal situation (which is what most of them do anyhow).

The agricultural situation in Russia is dismal.  The largest landmass country in the world is a net importer of food.  On top of that, nobody ever expects Russia to compete in manufacturing.  They can't compete with Japan, Europe and the US on high tech/value added products and they sure can't beat China etc. on efficiencies either.  All they can do is continue to sell their resources and raw materials which might catch them up to Brazil soon.  And most of that $$ goes to the oligarchs and their foreign investors.

I am not trying to bag on Russia, in fact I believe they have a brighter future than Europe economically but that will take a lot of changes and perhaps a good 40 more years.  Law, order and regulation are the 1st big step and there is zero progress.  Too bad their oil production will peak in a few years and commodities prices are already falling...Natural gas is one of the few stable supplies they hold.

As for those who think the future is all rosy, tell me what the worst performing stock index in the entire world is so far for 2007?  Anyone? 

[Mir]

As for those who think the future is all rosy, tell me what the worst performing stock index in the entire world is so far for 2007?  Anyone? 

Russia?

You can slect your future Russian wife here:

http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20061218/57074135.html

[ScottinCrimea]

Definitely look like a lot of desperate FSU women there!

[DKMM]

Good guess Mir!

Wow ms. Irkutsk is about as good looking as I've ever seen.  I wonder if there are any agencies there?   

[WmGO]

I/O, you failed to understand my post re Russia and Ukraine. Obvisously you will find differences from place to place in Russia  and Ukraine - just like you find differences between Australian cities and regions. You would not however suggest that because the Outback is different from Sydney that they are not part of the same cultural organsim would you? Of course not. All academics on all continents agree that Russia, Ukraine and Belarus represent a single cultural organism. Of course, just like your country and mine, you will find subtle differences from place to place. Take a look at America. There are plenty, many even radically different subcultures from the Anglo-European host culture (like the black, Hispanic and Indian subcultures). And the West Coast is very different from the South. But it is still one country and one cultural organism. I was in France last summer. I traveled to Paris, Normandy, the Rhone Valley and the Mediterranean Coast. Each place was different - but still and obviously French. Of course, Russia is a very large country and hence, yes, east of the Urals and far south you will see different subcultures involving the the Asiatic and Caucasian peoples. But that is irrelevant to my macro point. As I said before, and I stand by this, Russia and Ukraine are virtually identical and if you have been to one you have, virtually, been to the other.

The point was that because Russia and Ukraine are the same historically, culturallly and ethnically (East Slav) it is not reasonable for Russians to have a superiority complex over Ukrainians. That would be like folks from Perth thinking themselves superior to folks in Adlelaide -  A vain and illogical proposition.

Jazzy, every country has problems. It is important for people to start with themselves - to make sure that have personal moral standards, then work to extend those standards to the community and up to the government. People have more power than they realize. In your country's case, there are many very talented and morally upstanding people who want to work for the betterment of their country. That is why it is imperative that the Russian people reject a one party autocracy. No country can reach it's potential under autocratic rule or when freedom of speech, press and assembly are nonexistant. 

[Mir]

The point was that because Russia and Ukraine are the same historically, culturally and ethnically (East Slav) it is not reasonable for Russians to have a superiority complex over Ukrainians. That would be like folks from Perth thinking themselves superior to folks in Adlelaide -  A vain and illogical proposition.

Well that is not all true.
Ukrainians and Russians are both Eastern Slavs but are not the same. Ukrainian language is similar but not the same as Russian. At one time Ukraine was under Polish domination. Ukrainians sought the help of Russia to through away the Polish yolk and as a result Russia became their overlords.
At the great battle of Poltava the Ukrainians sided with Sweden's Charles xii in a bid to gain freedome from Russia and Charles defeat sealed the fate of Ukraine. During the subsequent years it was a crime to write the Ukrainian language within the Russian empire and we all know what Stalin did to Ukraine.
Folks from Perth never suppressed those from Adelaid or vice versa.
In some ways Russians and Ukrainians are like English and the Irish.

[I/O]

I/O, you failed to understand my post re Russia and Ukraine. All academics on all continents agree that Russia, Ukraine and Belarus represent a single cultural organism.

WmGO You've kinda shifted tack a little here.  These are your words I don't agree with.............

Russians and Ukrainians look the same, act the same, think the same, walk the same, dress the same.

Not correct. 

To focus on the  bigger picture, with very general observations, then there is validity in your statement, but the detail differences are very stark from area to area.  Academia can agree on whatever it likes, I make judgements on what I see with my eyes at street level. That is where most guys who are likely to visit a Lady in the FSU will draw their conclusions from I suspect.

I/O

[Zhena]

WmGO You've kinda shifted tack a little here.  These are your words I don't agree with.............Not correct. 

To focus on the  bigger picture, with very general observations, then there is validity in your statement, but the detail differences are very stark from area to area.  Academia can agree on whatever it likes, I make judgements on what I see with my eyes at street level. That is where most guys who are likely to visit a Lady in the FSU will draw their conclusions from I suspect.

I/O

The detail differences you will find also in the different regions of Ukraine and Russia. But what are the general differences?

[I/O]

The detail differences you will find also in the different regions of Ukraine and Russia. But what are the general differences?

Zhena That was the point I was making, there is many detail differences.  I was not focusing on the general comparison.

I/O

[Jazzyclassy]

Russians and Ukraines are indeed different really they are

Yes in so many ways they are the same but again like Mir told Ukraines were under Polish power so......

and I/O is absolutely right about street level consideration, about personal experience, I trust experience more than What they wrote in some wise books sometimes:P

[wiz]

Once again you see only tv propaganda , the same as I see tv about your countries:) but thank to my online friends my blue dreamy outlook about the world is getting better:) and I know that there are problems in every country But , here comes a huge But:

Living standards of the  US and the  UK and Europe will never be  compared to Russia, many people got low salaries here and prices are  raising all the time,  in the US and the UK and Europe they got stable salaries , donations from governments if it is single parent, insurance some social benefits people actually can live ok while being on the job market queue, they are being supported while searching for work.
In Russia it is all different nobody cares about you , you are not protected by Government, if you lost your work that's your problem you can die and no Putin will help you ,
Russia lost its manufacture, agriculture, villages are dying , no one is working the soil,  weather is getting very unstable which prevents to normally grow plants, 

Money are gathered only in Moscow and Saint Petersburg if you go to the other cities as Rostov on Don , Saratov, Krasnodar and moreover to Siberia , you will see the real life of people , how they live sometimes there is no hot water, there is no heating  , Russia is messy and if you still did not work that out , what can I do , I invite you all here to our Russia and take a huge great trip all over Russia travel along these towns villages and cities and you will see the real life, when people are living from hand to mouth

I actually thought that many of you guys who have russian or ukrainian wives , you actually knew the situation how poor and miserable Russia is still  and no matter that  it improved a little bit, We do not feel this, living standards are very low ,

there are very rich people and very poor people and you can count those who are middle class,

What can I say about myself , yes I live in Moscow but that does not mean I am rich bag of money girl, I am normal close to middle I hope:) but I am poor if we speak about traveling and buying clothes everyday and eat in the restaurants everyday , in this case I am poor , cos I can not afford this everyday,

I can travel to some country if I save money during the year but not every season
cos I pay for University still

so life is ok here but not brilliant

Nice frank post Jazzy but

you forgot to mention the corruption which is rampant and part of your culture and affects every part of your daily life.

It is nearly impossible to do anything in your country without having not to bribe somebody.

[Jazzyclassy]

        you forgot to mention the corruption which is rampant and part of your culture and affects every part of your daily life.

It is nearly impossible to do anything in your country without having not to bribe somebody.

           

Oh yes Dear Wiz unfortunately

but that is am sorry Government's problem not mine  how will I survive in this corrupted society if I wont live according to their theif in law  orders??? they will just simply kill me or wont let me live properly , so it is cruel to blame simple people cos they live in such bribed society , we actually have no rights here so what are we talking about dear Wiz.......

I am sure other countries have their special issues about bribing and they punish people and the Law is working there , in our case am sorry  it does not work....

[Makkin]

Hello,

  Sometimes it takes a revolution ! ! !

  Bush was elected by the silent majority in both elections as will Rudolph G. in 2008.

  Makkin

 

[Bruce]

Makkin, if only our country is smart enough to elect a man as capable as Rudy G.  Two terms of Rudy G would be amazing, but alas............I just do not see the Republican party nominating a guy who is pro choice, gay tolerant and in favor of gun control for big cities and as soft on immigration as our present administration.  Other than that he is strongly conservative, tough, smart, does not take gump from special interest groups and I am sure would have a nuanced foreign policy.   He would have street thug as well as white collar type criminals throughout our country pooping in their pants within a month of office.   How he would work with Russia?  I do not have the slightest idea, though he is highly principled.  The guy really can transform an organization, thats all I know.  I saw it in NYC, which is pretty amazing for a Republican with no support in City government to do. 

[WmGO]

I/O you will find "detail" differences if you travel from New England to the Midwest down to the South over to Texas up through the Mountain West and over to the West Coast. But it is still the same country and same cultural organsim with more in common than that which is different. As far as that goes, Russia, Ukraine and Belarus are some of the most homogenous cultures in the world. If there were no border check points you would not know you had crossed from Russia to Ukraine or vice versa. It is all one flowing continuum. And yes by all means I agree to let the individual travelor form their own observations. I am sure they will see big differences between Kursk and Kharkov, Saratov and Odessa, Chelyabinsk and Donetsk...and will probably never notice that half or more of "Ukrainians" are actually Russians since they are so radically different....

[Mir]

WM

If all border posts are abolished in Europe and you travel from Russia to France it is unlikely you will know when you cross each border.

[SANDRO43]

If all border posts are abolished in Europe and you travel from Russia to France it is unlikely you will know when you cross each border.

If you have plugs in your ears, and don't hear people speak .