Desperate or not? FSU women

[BC]

And the flip side thread would be DESPERATE OR NOT? USA men. 

Wish this post would have been taken more seriously.

There may be millions of FSU women 'desperate' to leave, but indeed they won't go anywhere without desperate WM who enable a ticket to the proverbial train wreck.

[Jazzyclassy]

    There may be millions of FSU women 'desperate' to leave, but indeed they won't go anywhere without desperate WM who enable a ticket to the proverbial train wreck.

           

Absolutely  and as it was said here :

     There are desperate men in the USA who hope women in the FSU are equally desperate,,, and there are desperate women in the FSU who are not quite that desperate...     

Of course there are , if there were no desperate men there were no desperate women  then:) For sure

and this:

     One way or another a determinations of desperate bitch and  desperate decent woman are different... I think   

Olga
     

Of course we can not compare those categories of women , the desperation is so much different in this cases.

Actually there are any types of desperation , some are desperate just to find something amazing for their life and career , like I had friend who was living in great western country but he always dreamt of something different for himself, wanted to work in another country and it had nothing to do with women , with love , he just wanted to experience other emotions and see the world and achieve something what he wished for himself.

so it is just how people see this term-desperation, I personally think  women to be desperate but in a good positive way, yeah there are different women but am not going to talk about them .
Desperation of decent women is in their desire to love and to be loved , to care and to receive it in return and it does not matter which country it is, if she is so much in love with American man , why not let it be, cos probably with Russian man she would be miserable and the same for him.

[vwrw]

I do not know this story either is true or not but I very much like this story.
The day when the Alexander Great finished his conquests he locks himself in his room and he was weeping. His generals were very anxious – “What is happened with Alexander.” They had never seen him to weep. He was a great warrior. They had seen him in deprivations; in situations where his life was in dangers when death was almost inevitable but he had none of tears on his cheeks. “What is happened with Alexander now when he has succeeded and got what he wanted?”  “Why you weep like a child” – they asked him.
The Alexander said- “I am in desperation. Now, when I have succeeded I have nothing to do…Oh, if only there were other available world to conquer I’d continue (fellow) my conquests”
 
Not only losers may be in desperation.

[Mir]

vrvw

It can be a good symbolic story but unlikely to be true since Alexander never finished his conquests.
In fact once he arrived in Western India his army was much harassed by the locals using guerrilla tactics.In addition his solders and officers were getting tired and homesick.There was almost a rebellion in his camp and so he decided to stop there and return home (he never made it to Macedonia though).
So maybe he was crying at the disobedience of his officers

[Thor]

P/G I can't say I have ever met any lady in any area of the FSU that I could actually term as desperate to get out.  I exploded that myth well before I ever came near any discussion boards and actually before I had even heard much comment in that respect.

I/O

Hi L/O

I have meet some desperate girls here in Ukraine. Every time this has been young girls with child. For them the situation is very hard. They they live home with their parents, cant study like other girls because they must take care of the child. Often the father don't care about the father at all. They have no money, site at home in shitty appartemends all day long while their friends have a funny time at the university. This girls are sometimes just DESPERATE to get out of Ukraine. This girls are sometimes very young and don't care if the forreign man are 20 or 30 years older than them self...They just wants to get out and get out fast. And who can blame them, they just want a better life...

[Jazzyclassy]

        And who can blame them, they just want a better life...     

Nobody can blame them , the same as nobody can blame the other people those men who come in search of women in Russia or  Ukraine and so on.

Just every person chooses what is closer to him, World is so very much different from what we are dreaming about it .

I personally think  why   people are trying to figure out who is desperate and who is not, what will it  change? if you already know about such girls so it is up to you if you want to meet them or not

We actually have no right to judge anyone , as we are not perfect ourselves

[vwrw]

Okay Mir, even if it is only a good symbolic story, not truth. Still the fact that not only loser may be in desperation is true.

[Mir]

Thor

I am sure you have met desperate girls but I don't agree with the description of a desperate girl you have given.
I have seen that majority of young women in Ukraine will have a support network.This would consist of their mothers and their friends.So if there is a young single mother she will rely on this support network.I cannot believe that anyone in this position would think that marrying an old foreign man will make her situation better.If she comes to the US with her child she will have to leave the support network behind and I am sure you will soon find out how time consuming it is to bring up a little child.

[Mir]

vrvw

Yes you point was valid.
Everyone is different. People like Alexander,Cesar, Napoleon etc. need to constantly stimulate themselves by taking on challenges.So when they find that they will no longer be able to face big challenges they can become desperate.
On the other hand there are people who will become desperate whenever they face a challenge or a threat.
Who is the abnormal one? Neither,they are just different ends of a spectram.

[FunIndieBloke]

On Valentine's Day, SkyNews ran an article about women in China who sign up for foreign marriage agencies.  I think the link is here:

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,15410-1251530,00.html

I was kind of surprised, as we all hear about the booming Chinese economy and how it will be the world's biggest economy in 50 years time.  And unlike the shortage of men present in FSU countries, there is a shortage of women in China.  So what motivates these women?

[BradSTL]

I think most 'desperate' women do not show their desperation to
you in an overt way. Just like ANY woman, she will show you her
good side during the dating process- that's only natural. (you'll do that too) 

This makes no sense!   You contradict your own descriptions of this hypothetical woman who is so "desperate".   American english dictionaries provide several defintions of this word;  loss of hope;  using extreme measures to avoid defeat, failure, or to escape a state of despair.

If desperate women do not "show" desperation--- HOW DO YOU KNOW THEY ARE DESPERATE?   Is this a Kreskin-mind reading thing?

Men and women show their better nature during dating?  You think?  Who, pray-tell, shows their worst nature?

Rethink this paragraph.

[Turboguy]

I did not go back and read PG whole original post but it makes sense to me.   He used the term "overt way"   To my thinking that is what red flags are about.  Someone on the surface seems like a good prospect but we notice something that does not quite ring true or something that is subtle that causes red flags. 

[groovlstk]

If desperate women do not "show" desperation--- HOW DO YOU KNOW THEY ARE DESPERATE?   Is this a Kreskin-mind reading thing?

She'll inevitably "show" her desperation by agreeing to marry a guy (who's also desperate, by the way) whom she can't even communicate directly with after spending a few days with him.

[BC]

She'll inevitably "show" her desperation by agreeing to marry a guy (who's also desperate, by the way) whom she can't even communicate directly with after spending a few days with him.

Groov,

I'm thinking the other way around.. think 'Power of the Bush' or 'Blinded by the Light'..

Don't forget that in most cases men are the enablers here.

I'm scratching my head trying to determine the difference between 'desperation' as is being used here and 'cunning', maybe on the lighter side even 'practical'..

After all if someone has little or nothing to loose even a free 90 day holiday doesn't sound that awful bad..

Most of the time though I think women are even talked into a K1 'deal' even though they show clear reluctance..  'Well ok... if you absolutely insist...'

I personally haven't met any woman that rates practicality lower than lust or puppy love.  Unfortunately men rarely notice until long afterwards..

[Thor]

Thor

I am sure you have met desperate girls but I don't agree with the description of a desperate girl you have given.
I have seen that majority of young women in Ukraine will have a support network.This would consist of their mothers and their friends.So if there is a young single mother she will rely on this support network.I cannot believe that anyone in this position would think that marrying an old foreign man will make her situation better.If she comes to the US with her child she will have to leave the support network behind and I am sure you will soon find out how time consuming it is to bring up a little child.

Of course they want to have a close network, but foreign men can also provide them with this network abroad. Have you been to Ukraine to date Ukrainian girls Mir???? If so you would have seen that many singel mothers have a hard life, and they are in many cases desperate to get out of Ukraine, even if the man is much older then themself. A girl at 21 will have no problem to consider to marry a man in his 40"s...if this is a chance to give her and her child a better life Mir. Some of this girls live at home in old and ugly flats with their parents, have no work, can"t study because they have to take care of the child. Only sit at home in ugly flats. I have no problem at all to understand why they would marry a forreign man to get out of their misery.

If any men are going to FSU to look for a easy "catch" in shortes possible time, then look for girls with children...

[Mir]

Dear Thor

I have been to Ukraine a few times.
I first went there in 2004 and made many friends through a charity project I ran there.This brought me into contact with many poor and neglected people in that country and also the doctors who were trying to help them without much resources. Since then I have been to that country at least 10 times and the last trip was June 2006.I have dated 3 girls there and none was through an agency.With one girl I had a 18 month long relationship that ended last year.However through her and other people I met there I was able to visit several Ukrainian homes, yes the shabby flats that you have mentioned though they were by n means dirty.
Yes some people are desperate to leave but I met dozens of young women, men and coupels who are happy to stay there and build a life for themselves.
So the question remains if a young Ukrainian girl with a child marries an old American man and arrives in US how will she survive? The child will take up most of her time. The husband will leave for work in the morning. She does not know the language, can't drive so can't even go and buy food (I don't know if you have ever been to US but public transport outside the city is non-existent). She wants to study and do a job, but there is no mother or sister at home who can look after the child when she is gone.
No I think she is better staying in that old flat in Ukraine.
But then some might be desperate, most I think are sensible.

[Zhena]

Mir,who said that she doesnt speak english? Then,many girls take their moms to usa at least for some months to help with a child.Not immediately,but still. Again,who said she doesnt drive and dont have a car? Maybe she got the license there in a couple months and her husband bought her a car? Again,some men can afford the babysitters...So,a life can be easier for her in usa. If her husband will love her and care about her,of course.

[Thor]

Dear Thor

I have been to Ukraine a few times.
I first went there in 2004 and made many friends through a charity project I ran there.This brought me into contact with many poor and neglected people in that country and also the doctors who were trying to help them without much resources. Since then I have been to that country at least 10 times and the last trip was June 2006.I have dated 3 girls there and none was through an agency.With one girl I had a 18 month long relationship that ended last year.However through her and other people I met there I was able to visit several Ukrainian homes, yes the shabby flats that you have mentioned though they were by n means dirty.
Yes some people are desperate to leave but I met dozens of young women, men and coupels who are happy to stay there and build a life for themselves.
So the question remains if a young Ukrainian girl with a child marries an old American man and arrives in US how will she survive? The child will take up most of her time. The husband will leave for work in the morning. She does not know the language, can't drive so can't even go and buy food (I don't know if you have ever been to US but public transport outside the city is non-existent). She wants to study and do a job, but there is no mother or sister at home who can look after the child when she is gone.
No I think she is better staying in that old flat in Ukraine.
But then some might be desperate, most I think are sensible.

So you had a charity project there? I am impressed!! I cant agree with you in this one, I truly believe that she will have a better life in the US. Go to the outskirts of Kharkov or go to the country side and you will understand why. Living in this cold and dirty houses in the cold winter?? No way, I would rather live in the west. But maybe some men from the US or western Europe who has married girls with a child or children can share they're experience on this one?????????

[Mir]

Zhena

I don't think you are getting my point.
The statement made by Thor was (and I am not saying it is totally without merit) that only a desperate young girl (example given is of a 21 year old single mother living in a old flat with her parents) will consider marrying an older American/Western man (a man aged over 40).
My argument is not what all you have said about language, car, momma cannot happen, but this:
1. Young single Ukrainian/Russian mothers with a supportive family/friends is better off in Ukraine then USA and extending from that:
2. Men in their 40s looking for a young wife in FSU should not look for desperate women as desperation is not often the basis for a loving relationship.

[Mir]

Thor

We all can argue this point from our own angle and perhaps there will be more advocates of moving to US then staying in Ukraine but then......
And don't forget there are Americans who have left US and moved to Ukraine/Russia with a marked drop in their standard of living.

[Zhena]

Zhena

I don't think you are getting my point.
The statement made by Thor was (and I am not saying it is totally without merit) that only a desperate young girl (example given is of a 21 year old single mother living in a old flat with her parents) will consider marrying an older American/Western man (a man aged over 40).
My argument is not what all you have said about language, car, momma cannot happen, but this:
1. Young single Ukrainian/Russian mothers with a supportive family/friends is better off in Ukraine then USA and extending from that:
2. Men in their 40s looking for a young wife in FSU should not look for desperate women as desperation is not often the basis for a loving relationship.

Sorry,I didnt read the first post Ure right,I misunderstood. About desperation and marrying the older man cant agree,as you know The people should marry if they love each other-agree. All other reasons wont work.

[Thor]

Zhena

I don't think you are getting my point.
The statement made by Thor was (and I am not saying it is totally without merit) that only a desperate young girl (example given is of a 21 year old single mother living in a old flat with her parents) will consider marrying an older American/Western man (a man aged over 40).

NJET NJET.....Now this is not my statement Mir. There are several young girls without a child that would consider to marry a older forreign man,not ONLY girls with a child. My statement was that there is easier to find a young girls with a child that will consider to marry a foreigner than a girl without a child...

[Mir]

OK Thor looked like we had our wires crossed.
But seriously if I was a 21 year old single mother in FSU with a loving family and supportive friends I would rather stay there then marry a much older American man just to go to USA, jmho.

[Mila]

But seriously if I was a 21 year old single mother in FSU with a loving family and supportive friends I would rather stay there then marry a much older American man just to go to USA, jmho.

Why? I hope you do not think an older man can’t be a good husband and supportive friend. I think older man could often excel in both of these aspects.

[Vaughn]

Welcome Mila! And I'm sure there are several married "old goats"
like me here who appreciate your vote of confidence!

Молодец!!