Overcoming the language barrier

[WmGO]

I think it would be a mistake to absolutely exclude from *initial* contact and meeting a woman who did not speak good Engish (I have found that many can at least put together some choppy English IF they TRY).

The real question IMO is what happens *after* a succesful first meeting where the two desire to further the relations. At that point it is imperative for the lady to seriously pursue English language studies. If she does not it shows her lack of seriousness or sincerity IMO. I have had to cancel more than one second meeting because of the lady's failure to do so. As I have said in those cases, I will NOT rely on an interpreter for a second meeting. Period.

I am amazed at how lazy so many of these ladies are when it comes to this issue. I know women who can't speak any better English today than they did 5 years ago.........

[catzenmouse]

Mark,

 From what I've read here you came into this looking for a fight -then- SURPRISE! you found one. JB complimented you on your success quite some time ago and did so again here but you were still looking for that fight. Why does it surprise you that you got what you were looking for?

 Read I/O's post. He laid it out very well. All your ranting about "who's rules, etc." sounds much more like a snot nosed kid than a happily married man who found success by following his own path.

FWIW,
 Ken

[Markus]

I/O,

Very nice post I must say. It's amazing the different interpretations I read from me just stating the facts. Let me jump to the end of your post about shut up or put up. Shut up what? And put up what? I don't understand what you're trying to convey. But, I will say, you seem pretty cocky for a guy who wants to experience what I have. Yes the risks are high, and I hope to you are sticking to the subject of overcoming the language barrier. I had guys say to me when I was at your stage, full of confidence, to come back later and tell us how it worked out. Otherwise your opinion didn't mean anything. I, on the contrary, appreciate your honesty. Consequently, perhaps my manner is conveying my experience isn't appropriate, but, you don't know some of the old timers on this board like I do. As is obvious, I responded to jb and my facts to show others not to listen to everything he says. jb has some good advice on visiting Russia. By the way, you talk about giving up on being right, well, I gave up on proving that I was right. Because I mention it doesn't mean I'm trying to prove something, it simply means that what I did was part of the experience to get where I'm at today.

You refer to my success as attributed to the time and effort I put forth. You are correct, but moreover, I found a lady who is not mentally lazy and put forth an effort.

You state the risks, but how do you know? A guess perhaps? Any man who decides to go the RW route is taking a risk. I think that risk is less than going for an AW. RW women are feminine, but they expect the man to be the man. There's no controlling, and it's 50-50 with them (at least it is with my wife). On the other hand, my wife expects me to be the man. So there is a balance in the relationship. It's up to the man to make the balance exist.

I disagree with you in that I have done little to answer the question. I stated my facts. Perhaps a book in between would suffice? Yes I skipped all the details and stated the quick facts. But, I was hoping folks will fill in the between.

I also disagree with in that you thought I was saying "phuc you" to folks. All I did was state facts and disagree with jb.

You have taken the liberty to advise me to provide a "road map" to folks to follow in my footsteps. You, sir, have fallen into the emotion factor of interpreting my statements. I only stated facts. Where did I state someone should follow in my footsteps that would require a roadmap. Your roadmap is something I think you want since you are beginning.
But, based upon my 1st post exchange with you, you and your lady will do good.

Mark

Mark

[Markus]

Mark,

I think it might be interesting for those even considering following in your footsteps to delve a bit into the time factor involved..  sort of 'exposing fine print'..

You are correct, it wasn't you doing the advocating, it was you talking about those considering my footsteps. My mistake.

mark

[BC]

Quote from: BC on Today at 20:10:16
Mark,

I think it might be interesting for those even considering following in your footsteps to delve a bit into the time factor involved..  sort of 'exposing fine print'..

You are correct, it wasn't you doing the advocating, it was you talking about those considering my footsteps. My mistake.

mark

come on Mark.. give us the 'beef'..

[Jumper]

mark,
 since the title of the thread is
"overcoming the language barrier"
and you want to stick to it in the truest since of that..

it's very title states a premise that there is a barrier.

you posted the fact that you , and your wife, overcame the barrier.

its not beyond reason, within the context of the thread ,
for posters to ask you to expand on the..
"how"  you guys overcame said barrier?

the *Hows* are perhaps a bit more important than the fact it was overcome.

maybe it merits its on thread and you donthave time, thats also understanadble.

but honestly, when you take the time to answer each of the people debating with you in some detail, it seems youd have time, to put forth the *hows" which many would find more valuable and intertesting than

"i did it"

*shrugs*

[Markus]

Do you want the beef on how I overcame the language barrier?

Well, it was a smart husband with a much smarter wife.
Fortunately, we both had patience.

Is this ok? If not ask questions and I will chose which questions
I will answer.

Mark

[jb]

Is this ok? If not ask questions and I will chose which questions
I will answer.

You might try this without a personal attack on me.

[ScottinCrimea]

     Mark, it was nice to see a different tone in your last post.  I also felt that you came into this with a chip on your shoulder.  I kept having this mental image as I read your posts.  I imagined a man jumping off a cliff despite everyone's recommendations that he not do it.  Then after he survives, he looks up and thumbs his nose at them.  If this man then were to go about telling people not to listen to the naysayers because he has proven that it can be done and talks about how beautiful the scenery is down below, this would be irresponsible in my opinion.
     Now what people are saying, and you seem to agree, is that you took a big risk but managed to make it pay off.  So to avoid appearing irresponsible, rather than pointing out the survivors, maybe point out the larger number of crumbled bodies at the bas of the cliff.  Then maybe explain how difficult it is and how you were able to make it work.  Like saying, "Yeah. I did it, but I wore a parachute and a padded suit and aimed for the soft spot."
     I think no one here knows better than me what it is like for these women to move to the US without good English skills and how difficult it can be on the relationship if you're not both very committed.  Moving to Ukraine without good enough Russian skills was very rough, and even though we have made it work, I'm not going to go around telling people, "Hey, go for it!  Of course it can work, look at me!"  I've seen several guys try this and fail.  What I tell men who are interested in doing what I did is advise them of the risks and benefits and then give them specific advice about what worked or didn't work for me and others I have been acquainted with.
     The stories you hear from Las Vegas are the ones about the big jackpot winners.  If you talk to anyone who goes there, they will tell you the story of when they came out ahead, not all the times in between when they lost their shirts.  It's the same here.  Let me ask you, if things hadn't worked out with you and Oksana would you come back on this board and tell about it?  I have nothing but admiration for the guys here who haven't been lucky for whatever reason and are willing to come here, tell about it, look for advice on how to be successful next time, and offer their experience as a lesson to others.

[ScottinCrimea]

After I posted I had some thoughts.  Don't take these questions wrong, it's just that her not having a drivers license after three years is not typical of what I have heard others do here and I'm sondering if there were some reasons why?  Also, does she have her green card yet?

[WmGO]

Please you guys take a chill pill, drink a beer, shoot some Vodka, do a bong hit or whatever it is that you do...bottom line: everyone must assess their own risk level and proceed accordingly...yes, crazy to marry a woman you can't even talk to but that is not what I saw in Mark's post...looked like his lady learned a lot of English after the first meeting and subsequently.......all is well on the Western Front.......he just took a LOT more risk on the front end with one meeting and then boom engagement......but it worked out for him.....and I think there is unanimity that that is a VERY high risk strategy.......let us just say hats off to Mark that it worked for him.......

[Markus]

jb,

my response was to BC about the beef.  It's my fault for not including who it was to. But, it was a quick response to a post. By the way, I sent you a PM and advised the moderator.

Mark

[Markus]

Open Question Time

Ask what you want and I will answer.
I have about 1-2 hours and I have to leave.

Mark

[BC]

Do you want the beef on how I overcame the language barrier?

Well, it was a smart husband with a much smarter wife.
Fortunately, we both had patience.

Is this ok? If not ask questions and I will chose which questions
I will answer.

Mark

Mark,

Was referring to my quite specific question regarding the available time you were able to invest..

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=4076.msg82642#msg82642

[jb]

Yes, you sent me a scathing PM, one I'll not forget for awhile. 

Mark,  Please grow up, not everyone who criticizes you is your enemy, not everyone who agrees with you is your friend.

[Markus]

As far as the driver's license, let me state that the facts were not completely read. But, that's ok, I only got past the 1st two pages before I began to respond.

My 3rd year anniversary is in July, but my wife didn't get to the U.S. until
Nov. 2005. So, she hasn't been here 3 years. I got married in Russia, had a
(duh for me) Russian wedding with all her family. I have taken my wife out
driving and I must admit, it's been ok, but at times I'm a nervous wreck. That's
why I use rent a cars instead of my redneck F150. So, we have decided to
hire a company to teach instead of me. But, she has read through the driver's
manual and there's some things she doesn't understand. We will have to review
to things beforehand. You see guys, that's the loveliness of marrying a lady who
is learning English. But, I love it (sometimes)

Mark

[jb]

That's lame, Mark,,, really lame.

[Markus]

jb,

I love you.  Can we kiss and make up?

BC,

I didn't understand your question but now I do. I have a job that pays me good and I have vacation above the average person. So, I can use miles on airlines and time off to fly to Russia. Of course, 4 times in 1 year was my max. Now, only 1 or 2 times a year.
Is this ok?

[ScottinCrimea]

Mark, some states, for example Washington, have the driver instruction manual in Russian.  While the rules might not all be the same, it would help her understand general driving rules better.  You can look online and find these.  So you're saying that up until now her English wasn't good enough to pass the driver's test?  Also, what about the green card?

[William3rd]

Uhhhh- actually, I am not still looking but I cant get the little thing to change.

And I have been involved in FSU relationships for ten years now.

I think you are picking  a fight with the wrong person. . . .

But then, since you are picking a fight with just about everybody on the board. . . .

You are a one in a thousand success. Count your blessings-but dont come in here telling everyone to do like you did unless you are giving a moneyback guarantee.

With zero English, what does a couple really have in common and how would they know that they did have something in common?

[Gator]

Mark,

I am asking for more info because it could help me as I endeavor to build a relationship with a RW who started with level I English.  We have been at it for 15 months and there is still more work.

How did you know that your personalities were compatible?

How do you resolve conflicts (big ones and little ones)?

What are her long-term goals?  Are they aligned with yours?  Do you discuss these goals frequently (3-4 times per year) because women do change, especially as they become adjusted to a new culture and understand the abundance of opportunities here?

[Markus]

William3rd,

Dang, pipe down there big boy. Zero English? Go back and read the facts that I stated. You are jumping to emotional conclusions. I had to go back and read what I posted to you see why you are all sensitively emotional. Dude, your thick skin needs some rubbing. You said there were flaws and I asked you to point out the flaws, something you failed to do in your most recent post. I said it emphatically because you made a strong claim, a claim I know you can't substantiate. I said you are beginning and it appears I'm wrong. I apologize for that.  But, you state you have been involved in Russian relationships for 10 years. Are you married? Do you even think that dating a RW is the same as being married to a RW? Don't get so emotionally unscrewed with somebody who challenges your opinion.

Mark

[BC]

BC,

I didn't understand your question but now I do. I have a job that pays me good and I have vacation above the average person. So, I can use miles on airlines and time off to fly to Russia. Of course, 4 times in 1 year was my max. Now, only 1 or 2 times a year.
Is this ok?

Yeah 'vacation above the average person' will do just fine and narrows the 'playing field' considerably.

In my direct experience, with my wife who could speak English well, the amount of time invested was enormous. I can only imagine the burden of time you experienced.  Luckily I am self employed and could devote my time (and resulting financial loss) accordingly. Not many share such luxury.

[Markus]

Gator,

Excellent questions. I will begin typing now. Give me a moment.

Mark

[Markus]

Gator,

You state you have been waiting 15 months. Have you been to visit her yet?

Mark