Different perceptions of RW and UW

[Mir]

Wayne 

Neither Jb nor you upthread have said anything about president Yushchenko and his illness!

[IAmZon]

Mir, I have come to appreciate you. so please change your avatar.

I don't know if it is just me.  but everytime I see it, I am reminded of Liza Minnelli.

No good can come from that:)

[Pike]

To repeat what some others have said (and disagree with what some others have said.)  I have spent considerable time with several RW and UW.  I discerned no difference between the two groups.

Many differences between the UW as a group and many differences between the RW as a group.  No generalizations could be made with respect to type casting RWs as having X characteristics or UW as having Y characteristics.

Also, I fully agree that the population statistics shown are correct and reflect that there is not a shortage of men in either Russia or Ukraine except in the upper age brackets.

However, there may still exist somewhat of a shortage of available local men for the women in the 30-50 age bracket.  This is because the local men may be hooked up with women several years younger than themselves.  Of course the women in the 30-50 age bracket could then expect to hook up with local men several years older than themselves, but then they do face the very real shortage of such older local men.

In this situation, another real shortage may be women for the younger local men.  That is to say, since the ratio of men to women in their 20s is about the same, and older local men are plucking off many of the women in this age bracket, then there aren't enough 20 something women for the 20 something men.  Of course there is an abundance of babushka shoulders for these younger men to cry on about the situation!! 

[Wayne B]

Wayne 

Neither Jb nor you upthread have said anything about president Yushchenko and his illness!

nyet nyet Mir, President Yushchenko is for Nat in a different perspective...  'crossthreaded and loggerhead' is banishment thread...ok moy friend?

[Chelchov]

Seeing all of this arguments about demographic... 

There are one camp arguing about the overall and general demographic of women vs men...  I think it's pretty vague... 

other camps saying about demographic of local single bachelors...like what Kat is saying that there way so many good men that are already married...  what about the demographic of bachelors vs married male???   

I think all of this come down to who's single or who's married...   

[wiz]

Wiz

Looking at English women is different as they are where you live.
For FSU you have to make a lot of effort.
You offer a dim openion about them and yet you take all the trouble to meet them, there must be a reason?
As for my view, I don't believe in generalizations, both countries will have all type of women and men who marry them may like them for different reasons.
Maybe some men don't like women who are mysterious and they like to find everything about them, maybe others are only interested as long as there is a mystery, everyone is different.
Yes as we have told Jazzy before, her perceptions of Ukrainians may be based on what she was told during her upbringing and confirmed by her personal bad experiences with Ukrainians. In the same way your views may be based on your experiences coupled with your frustration with FSU women (or one specific woman).
Although I always feel generalizations are wrong no one can stop you from giving your openion, so this brings us back to my question. Given the openion that you have, why do you keep chasing them?

Why English women are different because they are where I live?

Are you trying to say that English women are easy and you don’t have to make any effort?

Women all over the world are the same and you have to make a lot of efforts to get to know them as persons.

I do not have a dim view of the FSU women. I like them and earlier I described my impressions and how they come across to me. Of course there are exceptions which prove the rule.

There is nothing mysterious about the FSU women and I don’t find their secretive nature very appealing and that is why I try to get to know them well. After all any man who married an FSU woman will tell you the same, that he did not married his woman because of her mysterious character but for her other qualities and I am sure he did exactly as I do. I have always tried to get close to them, getting to know them well before going to the next important step and asking them to marry me.

But of course, I don’t think, you know anything about getting close to a woman……. You are nearly 50 yrs old, never married and you are meeting women below 25 years. You are only looking for fun and Arm candy and not for a serious relationship. Your housekeeper will not approve of you bringing home a foreign woman and don’t give me the excuse that you have a woman living with you because you don’t, otherwise you would not have been able to travel so often to Ukraine and other places…..now you have changed plans and you are going to Russia.

My own experience and views are not based in one specific woman but I have met several FSU women before meeting Sofia and I did exactly the same. I always have tried to get to know them well unlike you who, in your own admission, don’t go any further from the first initial meetings. You have not made any efforts of this kind because, as I told you before, you are only a sex tourist and nothing more.

I am looking seriously to find a woman to share my life and I make my efforts and make no difference if I happened not to have met the right woman for me yet. I am bored with English women, feminism, PC etc and I like chasing beautiful FSU women who, at the moment, have more traditional values. Between all the women I meet I expect soon or later I will come across the right one for me.

[Mir]

Dear Mr. Wiz

Anyway I have no intention in starting a slanging match with you once again.
Enjoy your next trip to Russia or Ukraine since I know that despite all the negative impressions you have about Ukrainians and now Russians you will keep going there, why? Only you know that.

[Jazzyclassy]

oh dear Mirushka and Wizushka

there is no need to argue

you are both good guys , everyone of us has his own point of view on things

I do not agree with you almost all the time, but still I consider you to be very smart good guys, and respect your experience and your age.

Ukraine girls are probably so happy that Ukraine might get into NATO , so it will be much more easy for them to relocate to US and to Europe so we will see that situation, I wont be Columbus if I discover Ukrainians to be spread all over the Europe and US:P

and Russia will never be in NATO , so it is hard to gain Russian girl , not that simple to win her!:)

so Wiz and Mir soon you can fully enjoy Ukrainian women  just how you like:) cos they are much more better than Russian ones:P

and I beg your pardon I have my right for my opinion , and for now it is firm and strictly like that about Ukrainian women!

[Mir]

Riv

Ok I will try to find another pic hehe

[wiz]

Dear Mr. Wiz

Anyway I have no intention in starting a slanging match with you once again.
Enjoy your next trip to Russia or Ukraine since I know that despite all the negative impressions you have about Ukrainians and now Russians you will keep going there, why? Only you know that.

Dear Mir

No I did not made a personal attack to you, because of your previous snide remarks…… but I just replied to your comments making comparisons about your approach and actions when it comes to FSU women and my own approach.

I have many times explained my reasons for looking to find a woman in the FSU countries but obviously you missed all, even the last post, so I am not going to write again about it!

[IAmZon]

Name calling is a peculiar thing.  One person's insult is another person's compliment. This "sex tourist" thing is a slippery slope is it not?  I think we are all sex tourists.

Even you JB ( in your younger days, of course)

The real insults under the label are:
- insincerity;
- deception; and
- being opportunistic. 
These traits are NOT a compliment to anyone. Worse when they applied to the disadvantage of the opposite sex.

[wiz]

Name calling is a peculiar thing.  One person's insult is another person's compliment. This "sex tourist" thing is a slippery slope is it not?  I think we are all sex tourists.

Even you JB ( in your younger days, of course)

The real insults under the label are:
- insincerity;
- deception; and
- being opportunistic. 
These traits are NOT a compliment to anyone. Worse when they applied to the disadvantage of the opposite sex.

I can accept or not the "Sex tourist" name but what I can not accept is the slur on my sincerity.

[Turboguy]

Name calling is a peculiar thing.  One person's insult is another person's compliment. This "sex tourist" thing is a slippery slope is it not?  I think we are all sex tourists.

Good point Rivardco.  I think most of us look at sex tourists as the lowest form of scum.   Most of us would define a sex tourist as someone whose sole goal is to have sex with women with no intention of a serious relationship.   I am sure there are not too many here who never had sex with someone they did not want to have a relationship with.

I can remember in my very young years before I had probably even kissed a girl talking to a kid a couple of years younger about the girls he had sex with and him saying his favorite line to get a girl in bed was saying "This is where we will build our house"   Good or bad line I think it qualifies him more as a teen wanting to get laid than a sex tourist.   

Perhaps it is a matter of degree.  I would rather think of myself as someone who was persuing a serious relationship but I am sure we all draw a line somewhere and some may put it in a different place than others.

[IAmZon]

Yes ... intentions, honesty, and respect are the real issues of the label.

I presume there is a special element that creates a STING to this model, and it is that the "sex tourist" is opportunistically / pathetically out of his league. 

US History: Remember the Clarence Thomas hearings ... the heat this guy took!  If Clarence looked like Denzel Washington what would have happened then?

Hard universal truth.  The LEAGUE THING is all around us and applies.

[Mir]

Wiz

I don't want to get into nonsensical arguments with you so you keep believing in things as you see them.
As regards the tourism thing, to be honest I even forgot you have are a tour operator of some sort.I have never purchase a product from this company nor do I know anyone who has done so.
Therefore I have no knowledge to comment on this company.
My comment is only directed to you as an individual and if you disagree then you have the right to seek satisfaction, in fact I would welcome the chance to produce the evidence substantiating my remarks in front of a third party (yes not only emails but photos sent on MSN can be traced to the source).
That is all I have to say to you.

[Nat]

nyet nyet Mir, President Yushchenko is for Nat in a different perspective...  'crossthreaded and loggerhead' is banishment thread...ok moy friend?

Ops, my English is not SO good to understand your post

[Mir]

And my Russian is not good enough to understand it either

[wiz]

Wiz

My comment is only directed to you as an individual and if you disagree then you have the right to seek satisfaction, in fact I would welcome the chance to produce the evidence substantiating my remarks in front of a third party (yes not only emails but photos sent on MSN can be traced to the source).
That is all I have to say to you.

You are a pathetic little creature, throwing mad around without foundation and I have reported this personal attack to Dan, as I do not want to create havoc on this board, which is your intention so I can be banned. This board is moderated unlike TIU, so you better substanciate your allegations against my character.

[Mir]

Wiz

I will substantiate it when asked.

[Mir]

PS

And I will also get Stu and Mark to also give their openions from what you told them

[Chelchov]

Also, I really don't like your avastar, Mir.  It's way too bloody and violent-like.  Can you please change the avastar to be more civil and decent? 

[LEGAL]

I like Mir's avatar - I have some philosophical thoughts looking at it.

And UW cook very tasty galushki and vareniki with cherries 

Olga.

[Mod1]

Mir & Wiz,

 Please take your personal issues with each other to PM, e-mail, or other off board methods.

Thank you,
 Mod1

[Admin]

PS

And I will also get Stu and Mark to also give their openions from what you told them

Mir,

I see Mod1 has stepped-in to address things.

I want to also BRIEFLY comment. If the "Stu" you reference is who I think it is (ref: Brama), the 'law of unintended consequences' could intervene with a result you would not favor.

As Wiz says, this board *is* moderated - at least a little - and as Mod1 suggested, please take your personal disagreements/issues off-board.

You have both been valuable contributors at RWD - please do NOT allow any personal animosities to become problematic.

- Dan

[supranatural]

I wanted to do some checking into the actual numbers of male -ver- female in Ukraine and Russia from all of the posts and hype of this subject so here is what I found. 

Ukraine Population:
46,710,816 (July 2006 est.)

Age structure:
0-14 years: 14.1% (male 3,377,868/female 3,203,738)
15-64 years: 69.3% (male 15,559,998/female 16,831,486)
65 years and over: 16.6% (male 2,635,651/female 5,102,075) (2006 est.)

Median age:
total: 39.2 years
male: 35.9 years
female: 42.2 years (2006 est.)

Population growth rate:
-0.6% (2006 est.)

Birth rate:
8.82 births/1,000 population (2006 est.)

Death rate:
14.39 deaths/1,000 population (2006 est.)

Sex ratio:
at birth: 1.07 male(s)/female
under 15 years: 1.05 male(s)/female
15-64 years: 0.92 male(s)/female
65 years and over: 0.52 male(s)/female
total population: 0.86 male(s)/female (2006 est.)

Infant mortality rate:
total: 9.9 deaths/1,000 live births
male: 11.48 deaths/1,000 live births
female: 8.22 deaths/1,000 live births (2006 est.)

Life expectancy at birth:
total population: 69.98 years
male: 64.71 years
female: 75.59 years (2006 est.)

Total fertility rate:
1.17 children born/woman (2006 est.)
---------------------------------------------------------

Russian Population:
142,893,540 (July 2006 est.)

Age structure:
0-14 years: 14.2% (male 10,441,151/female 9,921,102)
15-64 years: 71.3% (male 49,271,698/female 52,679,463)
65 years and over: 14.4% (male 6,500,814/female 14,079,312) (2006 est.)

Median age:
total: 38.4 years
male: 35.2 years
female: 41.3 years (2006 est.)

Population growth rate:
-0.37% (2006 est.)

Birth rate:
9.95 births/1,000 population (2006 est.)

Death rate:
14.65 deaths/1,000 population (2006 est.)

Sex ratio:
at birth: 1.06 male(s)/female
under 15 years: 1.05 male(s)/female
15-64 years: 0.94 male(s)/female
65 years and over: 0.46 male(s)/female
total population: 0.86 male(s)/female (2006 est.)

Infant mortality rate:
total: 15.13 deaths/1,000 live births
male: 17.43 deaths/1,000 live births
female: 12.7 deaths/1,000 live births (2006 est.)

Life expectancy at birth:
total population: 67.08 years
male: 60.45 years
female: 74.1 years (2006 est.)

Total fertility rate:
1.28 children born/woman (2006 est.)

So as you see in younger age group the female to male ration is 1:1 or even 1.05 to 1 and in the over 65 group it is 2 or more women per male.

Mir and others, I think what you are missing here is not that the ratios are similar.  Rather, if you look, there are in the 15-64 year age group, in Ukraine there are approximately 1.3 million excess women, and in Russia approximately 3.4 million excess women compared to men.  You can tell them all about a nearly 1:1 ratio but it doesn't matter, if *everyone* paired off and got married, there would be still approximately 4.7 million women in Russia and Ukraine who cannot pair up with a man.  In the US the ratio is closer and there is only a slight exess of men compared to women.