Wedding ideas needed. How to keep both families happy?

[dwfunk]

PS  Just having a little fun here since I'm  not getting the advice asked for.   

because there is no happy answer to what you are asking.  I think I read somewhere that this is your 2nd marriage and her 1st marriage?  If so, my advice is that the wedding should be over there, with her family. 

International weddings particularly across an ocean will always leave someone out of the the picture and therefore unhappy. That's life, and then you get to choose who gets to be left out.

Sometimes life sucks!

------
David & Natalia
Republic of Texas/Moscow, Russia
УЛ. КОНЕНКОВА
16th World Spacemodeling Championships

[LEGAL]

MaxxumUSA,

Did you talk about wedding with your bride Elena?
Visa K-1 have a some  difference from Visa K-3.
USCIS demands additional documents for Visa K-3 and  the period under review is more longer than period for Visa K-1.

I think after romantic proposal you, Elena and her parents can discuss together, weigh the pros and cons and come to decision. 

My mother was not against that LEGAL and I had our wedding in America. Before our wedding in America we had two parties with my relatives and friends in Russia 


Olga.

[Jet]

1.  It was not discussing HERE in THIS topis where I'm posting my "thoughts aloud"

 2. Ah I'm not such pragmatic ( and hope my daighter is not too) and would preffer to find those money ( if issue was only about them) 

3. MHO Everyone of you  should deal with your own in-laws I wish you would be more lucky and would not get such mother-in-law like Elen 

1. Lil and I discussed things with them, there was no need to discuss it here as it's nobodies business but our family's.

2. As I recall, the question was NOT "What would Elen like for her daughter's future wedding?", but "What did the married guys do?"

3. I'm counting my blessings 

But you can only hope ( nothing more) that you would get parents who would REALLY be happy with video tape instead of attending wedding, with grandchildren speaking at another language who would visit Russia 1 per year ( in best case) with money through Western Union  intead of talks face to face and with ending days alone in some rest house  with a nurse ( even well paid) instead of children. Good luck for all of you to find such happy with anything parents
( especially with somebody who she couldn't communicate properly with due to language barrier and who was raised in another culture) Also she dose not share an idea that there are no decent males in Russia
And addition to all these ideas what you said has nothing to do with my idea about "happiness" for parents I was speaking about

You make some serious presumptions in these two quotes that in our particular situation are completely unfounded. I inform you, not because I take things too personally, but so that you might learn that your stereotypes can be just as wrong as the ones you accuse AM of having. 
In our case, I was informed that for Lil's parents, attending her first wedding was FAR more important because it was a milestone in her life - the first time she would not live under their roof anymore, but stand on her own legs, as her own woman. It was the transition to adulthood. By the time of her second marriage (to me) she had already lived apart from her parents for many years. Little Kolya does speak a different language, but that does not mean he has forgotten his native one. He studies the Russian language between 1 & 2 hours per night. Reading, writing and of course speaking. This is in addition to his English homework for school. Kolya has also spent an average of 25% of his time per year in Russia, and along with that are the visits from his relatives, to the US so there is no lack of "face to face" talks for him or my wife. When Liliya's Mom died 2 years ago, my wife was by her mother's side for the last 2 months of her life and the funeral after that. So please don't roll your eyes at the men in disgust, some of us do the best we can, given the circumstance. Many of us, including myself & me wife would not be caught dead in a marriage agency - foreign or domestic.

[MaxxumUSA]

MaxxumUSA,

Did you talk about wedding with your bride Elena?
Visa K-1 have a some  difference from Visa K-3.
USCIS demands additional documents for Visa K-3 and  the period under review is more longer than period for Visa K-1.

I think after romantic proposal you, Elena and her parents can discuss together, weigh the pros and cons and come to decision. 

My mother was not against that LEGAL and I had our wedding in America. Before our wedding in America we had two parties with my relatives and friends in Russia 


Olga.

I am curious about the two parties.  How were they presented to your friends and relatives?  As a marriage?  As a reception?  As a celebration of life?

Like I said earlier...  the more parties the better in my mind! 

Please tell me a bit more. 


PS - We are going the K-1 route.  Me and Elena (together) made this decision already.  Paperwork is already being processed.

[Jet]

I am curious about the two parties.  How were they presented to your friends and relatives?  As a marriage?  As a reception?  As a celebration of life?

Like I said earlier...  the more parties the better in my mind! 

In our case, we had a party for the WHOLE family, and it was really just a "bon-voyage" celebration at her parent's apartment. Food, drinks, conversation, and songs well into the night.

I took this photo, that day:

We had another small "going away" party in Lil's apartment for her close friends, 2 days before heading to the US

[LEGAL]

I am curious about the two parties.  How were they presented to your friends and relatives?  As a marriage?  As a reception?  As a celebration of life?

Like I said earlier...  the more parties the better in my mind! 

Please tell me a bit more. 


PS - We are going the K-1 route.  Me and Elena (together) made this decision already.  Paperwork is already being processed.

MaxxumUSA,

If you are going the K-1 you should not be married before you come to America. In any case you will have wedding in America.

The parties were presented to my and now our friends and relatives as  the celebration of engagement 

Olga.

[Elen]

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=3955.45
Olga.

As you failed to quote exactly my words then I do it for you
I said I doubt VERY badly after such variant of story
I  was thrown in jail in St. Petersburg just because the cop didn't like the stamp in my passport. My documents have always been legal, my wife makes sure of it, but just because he had a hard on to hassle a foreigner, I get thrown in jail.

has been posted

and asked
. Where could I read the entire story told  by that other member of RWD who was with you but was not arrested though he was a foreigner too ( did I got right you) ?


.Entire story was some different "Difference" was in such "little" detail like not proper documents for that city for that time which first teller forgot to metion ( because he had own idea how those proper document should look like)

 Now you may go to THAT thread , re-read all 9 pages, take time for comprehending and return here 9 in topic "how to make both family  happy)  with my quotes .... in two years  for discussion at next 9 pages

[Muckraker]

We were married in a Catholic church in Vladivostok about a month after we received the K-1.  It was just an "engagement" ceremony, so no bribes involved, all perfectly legitimate.  It was identical to a wedding though.  Her family really loved it, they said it was much nicer than at ZAGS.  They also liked the church, they had never been inside a Catholic church before.

After the ceremony, we did the traditional driving around town for pictures, then we had the bread ceremony at the apartment, and then we had the reception at the top floor of Hyundai.  It was a blast. There are more details in my Vladivostok trip report.  The "second day" was at her parent's apartment and that was nice too.  Then the next day we left for the US.  

I wouldn't have missed the ceremony in Russia for anything.  It can be tough on a couple.  Lots of pressures and getting things done the way you want isn't easy in Russia.  But you really have to commit yourself to what your bride wants, and not let the situation cause too much stress for both of you.  Her parents and the other "advisors" in the family were probably the root cause of most of the stress, so you might have to step in and be the head of your family a bit early to support her sometimes, even if it puts you at odds with her parents. But once you have the reception location, the cake, the dress, the food, the booze, the invitations, the flowers, centerpieces, your tux, the rings, the church arrangements, the dj and music, the limo and other transport, the special champagne glasses, the video guy, the photographer, the tamada, and your wedding night room, the rest is a snap.  Sure gave my wife something to do while we were waiting for the visa anyway.  Probably the best part was taking the pre-marital classes together at the Catholic church over the summer in Vlad - that was fun.  Priest told her that she was a spoiled princess and was going to be trouble for me. Ha!

The family in Russia later got copies of the pictures and a copy of the wedding video, which they enjoyed greatly.  Professional video guy and a photographer are one of the best things about a wedding in Russia.  They are not expensive, and they do a great job of capturing the day for you to see later, since it is really all a blur at the time.  My family in the US also enjoyed seeing the video and our wedding album a lot.

About a month later we did the real wedding in Texas for my family.  Ho hum...

Muck

[DKMM]

Maxxum, do what Muckracker did.  It will pay dividends far more than you invest into such a venture.

Elen it does not surprise me at all to see you on this thread.  Anytime someone is successful at this "business" you seem to want to sneak your opinion in that its a bad thing.  Yeah we get it, you want to bring others down to your level of unhappiness (not unheard of in RW).  Your insecurity is right there on your sleeve for all of us to see.

That's all I have to say, but seriously Maxxum, have a ceremony in Samara or whereever her family is from.  It won't mess up your K-1 if its not a legal wedding.  She will want one there even if she does not say it.  She wants to prove to her family that this is the real thing so the Elen's among them will be put at ease.  And her family being at ease will put your marriage more at ease.

[Elen]

 

Lil and I discussed things with them, there was no need to discuss it here as it's nobodies business but our family's.

If you are going to follow a way which double-headed poster Legal followes and take ANYTHING what posted on board like something which had been posted EXACTLY about your family  you risk to end up in the same mess - with endless bazzar with "clarification" instead of discssion

 So personally for you. A question was asked not by you so answeres should not be seen like made for you only. Those who think it's nobody business to discuss such issue at open board just don;t ask such questions. A posability to invite parents to wedding in America ( or carry a ceremony in FSU)  was not discussed HERE in THIS topic by ANYBODY ( to that time I posted my words It was only an offer to make vide tapes and your story where there was no variant of attending wedding ceremony too)  That what I reffered to and that what I meant. that what my question was about ( if it's possiblle to invite parents to the USA then why it 's not discussied here)  You are free to post or not to post what have been discussed in your own family I don;t "forse" you to post anyting from your life experinece.

2. As I recall, the question was NOT "What would Elen like for her daughter's future wedding?", but "What did the married guys do?"

You see I'm a dunderhead in thast matter. So next time you wish to shut me up you should say that straight " I wish to hear an opinion of anybody else but Elen" That may be spare you from my noisy posts. But I though can't guarantee you that. Because there is no such a metode to shut up a Russian woman for sure ( except banning But that's a business of Dan but not yours for sure)

Also the main idea of question was about how make PARENTS from BOTH side HAPPY but not what  married guys did.  You failed to get an idea it seems or you would not think that an opinion from "parents'" side ( one of those sides) has not a right to be posted here.

You make some serious presumptions in these two quotes that in our particular situation are completely unfounded. I inform you, not because I take things too personally, but so that you might learn that your stereotypes can be just as wrong as the ones you accuse AM of having. 
In our case, I was informed that for Lil's parents, attending her first wedding was FAR more important because it was a milestone in her life - the first time she would not live under their roof anymore, but stand on her own legs, as her own woman. It was the transition to adulthood. By the time of her second marriage (to me) she had already lived apart from her parents for many years. Little Kolya does speak a different language, but that does not mean he has forgotten his native one. He studies the Russian language between 1 & 2 hours per night. Reading, writing and of course speaking. This is in addition to his English homework for school. Kolya has also spent an average of 25% of his time per year in Russia, and along with that are the visits from his relatives, to the US so there is no lack of "face to face" talks for him or my wife. When Liliya's Mom died 2 years ago, my wife was by her mother's side for the last 2 months of her life and the funeral after that. So please don't roll your eyes at the men in disgust, some of us do the best we can, given the circumstance. Many of us, including myself & me wife would not be caught dead in a marriage agency - foreign or domestic.

 You do take things TOO personally because anything I said "in general" and what I posted about my own viewpoints about issue you took like said about YOUR personal case.

What I posted in first my quote was not a "stereotype" or "presumption" It was my opinion got from my life experience  of living day after day next door to one of such a mother, supervising her life alone, hearing her stories and talks which she never told to her own daughter for the sake of her happiness. It is that side of "story" which neither you nor your wives could see.
 Also I saw that life for about 15 years and could tell you what problems for PARENTS poped after SUCH period ( with language of kids, with desire to visit Russia every year, with problems with health which make hard to visit even next shop leaving alone traveling abroad and etc)
If your (" all of your") parents prefer not to distrub you ( "all of you") with their problems it dose not mean those problems do not exist And if your ( "all of your" ) parents don;t face some of those problems just now it does not mean it would be the same in  N years.

 You may only HOPE that no one of such problems would appear in your life ( but that's hardly)  or you may hope that dealing with those problems would be seen like "happiness" for parents ( but to my mind it's hardly as well )

That's my "story" You have your own And like my one could not be taken like "a dogma" ( I fail to see where I lay a claim for that  ) like your own story could not be seen like something "typical"

 Others could only hope to get your happy variant of story ( THAT was my point if you missed it. Also my point was that "happness because you have what you wish" and "happiness because your child gets what he/she wishes" are different cases. )

As for rolling my eyes in disgust then I do know that some of you ( but FAR from all of you) do try to do your best. But I also know that there are enough objective circumstances in marriage abroad which make life of PARENTS far from happy. I 'm "rolling my eyes" at posts of those who refuse to admit existance of them prefering to speak about ONLY how parents are happy for their child. ( PS I'm not going to discuss a death of your mother in law but you do know by yourself ( but though may be you don't know if you didn;t live next to people in older ages)  that 2 monthes are not enough in majority cases for taking care about them.  In some cases it could last for years What would you do in such cases I have not idea. So your personal case is just only personal case which is not typical at all.There are enough "another" variations ( at this board as well) per your one personal case

In second quote you posted "she" was my own daughter So HOW that my quote could be "presumption" is above my understanding ( as well as what it has to do with discussed here topic and your explanation about your own life situation. )

[Elen]

Elen it does not surprise me at all to see you on this thread. 

Why would it surprise you if a topic is about how make PARENTS happy? I told how  - I wished to attend a wedding of my child. Video tapes, photos and a trip for buying rings would not make me happy . Something wrong with that?

Anytime someone is successful at this "business" you seem to want to sneak your opinion in that its a bad thing. Yeah we get it, you want to bring others down to your level of unhappiness (not unheard of in RW).  Your insecurity is right there on your sleeve for all of us to see. 

The same advice for you like I gave to Legal
 Let post what exactly is wrong with my opinion EACH time you saw that and in EXACTLY that place where you saw that
 Otherwise such post like you made here is nothing more than personal attack for starting one more war It seems you ( all of you)  got them not enough during last time.

( PS And next time please without deviation into psycho annalysis of my personal life You are neither a specialist in that sphere nor you do know someting about my personal life to make even  dilettantish conclusion)

That's all I have to say, but seriously Maxxum, have a ceremony in Samara or whereever her family is from. 

That "all you had to say" was "out of topic" That part of your post where you said something "seriously" was not too much different to my "wishes" and "viewpoints."  ( except that part where you said a girl would need wedding ceremony to "prove" something there I'd prefer to have no doubts in my child's desision to marry somebody and wedding ceremony could not be for me like a "prove" if I had some doubts

[Jet]

OK Elen,
You have made your point and I've made mine so I'll let it rest there.
Perhaps the main idea Maxxum can take from these "clarifications" is that consideration of parent's happiness should be an ongoing concern, not just the wedding ceremony, but all days after that as well.

Have a nice weekend 

[Elen]

No no
 Where is a duty comment about my psyche and duty advices what I should do with my own life    You can't be soo cruel to leave me for the whole weekend without instructions and stuff for self psychoannalysis

[MaxxumUSA]

But once you have the reception location, the cake, the dress, the food, the booze, the invitations, the flowers, centerpieces, your tux, the rings, the church arrangements, the dj and music, the limo and other transport, the special champagne glasses, the video guy, the photographer, the tamada, and your wedding night room, the rest is a snap.

About a month later we did the real wedding in Texas for my family.  Ho hum...

Muck

Oh my!  twice you did this!  Good job muck!  I'm not sure if I have this much energy but I guess if it keeps all involved happy, it will need to be done.

I will search for your trip report but maybe others would be interested in a link?  I am. 

Thank you all for your input and ideas.

I now have some options to be open to and present when the time is right.


And... for the record, my mother visited me yesterday to help me with some business paperwork...  I asked her about the wedding business.  She wants me to have a huge wedding here in the USA.  Sheesh...  I don't know about all that.  Remember - my first wedding was at Justice of the Peace because I was called to war and had 48 hours to report.  My mother told me she felt robbed of her sons wedding the first time and does not want it to happen again.  I took a deep breath, told her thanks for the help, and left the house to go have a few beers.   

[Elen]

And... for the record, my mother visited me yesterday to help me with some business paperwork...  I asked her about the wedding business.  She wants me to have a huge wedding here in the USA.  Sheesh...  I don't know about all that.  Remember - my first wedding was at Justice of the Peace because I was called to war and had 48 hours to report.  My mother told me she felt robbed of her sons wedding the first time and does not want it to happen again.  I took a deep breath, told her thanks for the help, and left the house to go have a few beers.   

well try to promice her a good video from wedding in Russia , say she wold be allowed to buy you a tuxedo and to pay for your wedding rings, tell her it's more practical and  advice her not to bring others down to her level of unhappiness ( because it;s typical only for Russian) and tell me what happy reaction you would get
  I'm very curiouse to hear how she would react Because what have been posted like an answers at my own reaction at such a prospect of wedding of my child made me doubt my psyche. ( after all so many people  here saw my "wish" like too abnormal that I really got doubts about what should I be happy with 


    kidding 

[Admin]

Oh my!  twice you did this!  Good job muck!  I'm not sure if I have this much energy but I guess if it keeps all involved happy, it will need to be done.

I will search for your trip report but maybe others would be interested in a link?  I am. 

Thank you all for your input and ideas.

I now have some options to be open to and present when the time is right.


And... for the record, my mother visited me yesterday to help me with some business paperwork...  I asked her about the wedding business.  She wants me to have a huge wedding here in the USA.  Sheesh...  I don't know about all that.  Remember - my first wedding was at Justice of the Peace because I was called to war and had 48 hours to report.  My mother told me she felt robbed of her sons wedding the first time and does not want it to happen again.  I took a deep breath, told her thanks for the help, and left the house to go have a few beers.   

David,

Amidst the rancor, I think you have gotten some good advice. In fact, while it would be BETTER for Elen and others to start different topics - much of what she says is VERY important to consider.

As for the marriages, I won't describe what we did - but I'll offer what I've read over the years that seems to work well for people.

First - you have very little flexibility with the K-1, so consider meeting the government demands as a bureaucratic requirement that is separate from your desires to commemorate and celebrate your union. They are separate and distinct.

Another simple fact is that it will be nearly impossible for most to have both families together for any of the celebrations. If someone has a great deal of money and gets creative with the marriage venue, then perhaps it is possible - marriage in Cyprus where everyone could gather relatively easily, for example - but for most, this is not practical.

The other principal consideration is whether you have the flexibility to return to the FSU reasonably soon after your K-1 marriage in the US. If the answer is Yes - then it takes you down one path. If the answer is No - then you take a different path.

Taking the option of a return shortly after the K-1 - the sequence would look something like this:

* If you are in the FSU when your fiance departs for the US to join you in the US (and maybe even if you are not), maybe throw a small 'going-away' party in her home-town for her friends and family. I think this is important to have a demarcation - for her and for her friends. It is highly-significant in creating a mindset of a 'new life' and beginning the difficult adjustment and transition she will face.

* Arrive in the US and jump the hurdles set-up by the BCIS. Plan the celebration separately - and if convenient and it fits within the 90 days, then a formal wedding in the US is doable.

* As you plan a return to the FSU, your 'WIFE' can coordinate with your MIL for a formal wedding back in the FSU. One way to rationalize it is - the church wedding in the US is not recognized by ZAGS, so this will be the opportunity to make it all 'legal' in her country - with the corresponding entries in her passport and such.

This seems to be an approach which satisfies the families, involves them albeit separately, and respects traditions and cultures.

Just a thought.

- Dan

[Admin]

BTW - I saw at least four other topics in this thread:

* RW who face old age alone when they marry older men. Great topic for discussion! It *is* real.
* RW Moms who want to be present when their daughters marry.
* Children of RW should speak Russian to communicate with their grandparents.
* Purchase of rings.

Maybe there were others - but these were the ones I recall from a quick read.

- Dan

[Elen]

  As you plan a return to the FSU, your 'WIFE' can coordinate with your MIL for a formal wedding back in the FSU. One way to rationalize it is - the church wedding in the US is not recognized by ZAGS, so this will be the opportunity to make it all 'legal' in her country - with the corresponding entries in her passport and such.

 If "make it all legal" means to have a ceremony in ZAGS then I don;t think it would be possible as Russia officially recognizes marriages which counted like "legal: in countries where they have been made So if marriage in church in the USA is counted like legal ( by American laws)  then person is counted like married already ( in any case for ceremony in ZAGS a paper from American side that fiance is not married currently  would be in demand)

 Russia just does not recognize marriage made at Russian territory in Church without registration in ZAGS So in other order to marry firstly Russian church and then have civil ceremony in the USA (I have not idea how it would be good to go to Church second time) like JB told could be a choice ( if her family is into religion of course which is far from any case in Russia)


But if you meant just "formal explanation" for family and friends then I don't see there is a need in any explanation except a wish to have a party with Russian family

[MaxxumUSA]

Thank you Dan for the ideas.

If anyone else has some ideas that are not mentioned here I would like very much to hear them.

[jb]

The other principal consideration is whether you have the flexibility to return to the FSU reasonably soon after your K-1 marriage in the US. If the answer is Yes - then it takes you down one path. If the answer is No - then you take a different path.

Dan, nice idea, but it won't work.

K-1 couples will not have the flexibility to return soon after the marriage, they will have to await the arrival of the Advance Parole travel documents.  Without the AP, the bride will not be allowed to return to the USA.  Remenber folks, the K-1 visa is a single entry visa, if she leaves the US without proper documentation, she stays in the FSU until she gets it.  This is not a good way to start a marriage with the new wife in exile for about 3 months.

K-3 wives do have that flexibility, since the K-3 is a two year, multi-entry visa, so the new bride can travel on it back to the homeland until the AOS is filed. 

[Admin]

Dan, nice idea, but it won't work.

K-1 couples will not have the flexibility to return soon after the marriage, they will have to await the arrival of the Advance Parole travel documents.  Without the AP, the bride will not be allowed to return to the USA.  Remenber folks, the K-1 visa is a single entry visa, if she leaves the US without proper documentation, she stays in the FSU until she gets it.  This is not a good way to start a marriage with the new wife in exile for about 3 months.

K-3 wives do have that flexibility, since the K-3 is a two year, multi-entry visa, so the new bride can travel on it back to the homeland until the AOS is filed. 

Good point about the AP John. My understanding is that it can be gotten pretty quickly in most offices - though like many things in the BCIS, processing times vary widely. In our case, we had the AP within 2 weeks of the marriage (and AOS filing) - pre-9/11.

- Dan

[jb]

In our case, we had the AP within 2 weeks of the marriage (and AOS filing) - pre-9/11.

Post 9-11, paperwork travels slower than molasses in January, I wouldn't count on the AP showing up sooner than 3 months now-a-days.

[gabrielo]

Maybe the option outlined by Muckraker seems the most viable, considering the importance of have a ceremony in Russia, even if it's difficult organize it.

but to be sure ask a lawyer about what if after having the K-1, but not yet in U.S.,  a religious ceremony abroad will be recognized instantly on entry the States, as a legal means of marriage or not.

Having two ceremonies for the families in my opinion have more importance than USCIS,   I mean if you meet the requeriments of USCIS,  try your best to have two ceremonies for the respective families and congratulations.

Gabrielo

[jb]

Why not have two weddings?
You could do the Orthodox Church wedding (not legally binding) in her home city and then do the second wedding in your home city.  That would get everyone in the loop.

I suggested this back on page one, however I think it got buried by Elen's rant.  Anyway, I think it's a good idea if you want to include her family as well as yours for the event.  Thanks to Muckraker for bringing this idea back to life.

[catzenmouse]

I saw jb's original comment and thought "Perfect" no need to comment or pay attention any more. Now I come back and see a continuing argument which is totally off topic, as is this post by the way, and I'd like to suggest that the parties involved start a new topic where they can continue with fight (or argument, or clarification, or disagreement, or whatEVER) this without hijacking other topics. That would only be fair don't you think?

Ken