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Author Topic: Boris Yeltsin: Hero of Russia has Passed Away  (Read 11580 times)

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Offline acrzybear

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Re: Boris Yeltsin: Hero of Russia has Passed Away
« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2007, 07:25:52 PM »

brought an end to the most evil and repressive regime the world has ever known.

Interesting, I didn't know Russia socred higher the Hitler or Idi Imin (the two that immediately pop to mind without research) in this category

Bottom line: Yeltsin-Gorbachev = no more evil Empire. No more gulags. No more knock on the door in the middle of the night. No more enforced atheism. No more Cold War. No more people trapped behind an Iron Curtain. No more nuclear missles pointed at each other. No more denial of basic human rights. No more of a sick and sordid list of abusing people that would fill an encycopedia.

Mr. Bond, Er I mean WmGO you are fortunate to make it out of the "Evil Empire" with all of your fingernails and virtue intact. The way you speak, you must have gone through hell living in Russia during the cold war. :o

 
Necessitas dat ingenium

Offline WmGO

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Re: Boris Yeltsin: Hero of Russia has Passed Away
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2007, 09:40:46 AM »
Yes, it was very cold  ;)

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18304207/

Offline Jet

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Re: Boris Yeltsin: Hero of Russia has Passed Away
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2007, 05:29:20 PM »
WmGO hate to play dogpile but I have to disagree with your original assesment in the strongest possible terms!  :naughty:

Everything I've seen/heard/read suggests that Ellen jb and Ste are spot-on. Yeltson will be remembered by most folks as a drunk, an idiot, and an American puppet.
Mistakes? Name me one other world leader in the last hundred years that flew four hours to meet another Head-of-State and got so friggin' sh!t faced drunk on the way that they couldn't even stumble out of the airplane when it landed at the other end!
Every action in company ought to be done with some sign of respect to those that are present. ~ Geo. Washington

Offline Kuna

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Re: Boris Yeltsin: Hero of Russia has Passed Away
« Reply #28 on: April 25, 2007, 05:46:34 PM »
WmGO hate to play dogpile but I have to disagree with your original assesment in the strongest possible terms!  :naughty:

Everything I've seen/heard/read suggests that Ellen jb and Ste are spot-on. Yeltson will be remembered by most folks as a drunk, an idiot, and an American puppet.
Mistakes? Name me one other world leader in the last hundred years that flew four hours to meet another Head-of-State and got so friggin' sh!t faced drunk on the way that they couldn't even stumble out of the airplane when it landed at the other end!

Ummm.. Bob Hawke - former Prime Minister of Australia.  Mind you... 4 hours on a plane doesn't get you far in Oz but he was an ex-union boss and self proclaimed alcoholic who claimed to be dry during his stint in office even though on a few occassions he was noticibly "tired and emotional".

As soon as he left office it didn't take long for him to get involved in the horses again, be seen at public events going past the drunken stage, divorced his wife and marry some hippy named "Blanch"...  :thumbsdown:


Offline ScottinCrimea

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Re: Boris Yeltsin: Hero of Russia has Passed Away
« Reply #29 on: April 25, 2007, 06:04:17 PM »
Ummm...Richard Nixon

It doesn't happen these days - but once an American President was too drunk to speak to a British Prime Minister. It happened at 7.55 pm on 11 October 1973, five days into the Israeli-Arab "Yom Kippur" war, when Edward Heath told the White House he wanted to speak to Richard Nixon in the next half hour.

Informed of the request, Henry Kissinger replied: "Can we tell them no? When I talked to the President, he was loaded." In the end Heath was told that Nixon was "unavailable".


Offline Jet

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Re: Boris Yeltsin: Hero of Russia has Passed Away
« Reply #30 on: April 25, 2007, 07:34:57 PM »
when Edward Heath told the White House he wanted to speak to Richard Nixon in the next half hour.

Informed of the request, Henry Kissinger replied: "Can we tell them no? When I talked to the President, he was loaded." In the end Heath was told that Nixon was "unavailable".


Little bit different scenario Scott - Nixon was not specifically on his way to a prescheduled meeting complete with international press corps and marching bands when he decided to get "loaded".

and Kuna, "noticeably tired and emotional" is a far cry from "too drunk to exit the plane under his own power".
Every action in company ought to be done with some sign of respect to those that are present. ~ Geo. Washington

Offline Kuna

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Re: Boris Yeltsin: Hero of Russia has Passed Away
« Reply #31 on: April 25, 2007, 09:12:35 PM »
and Kuna, "noticeably tired and emotional" is a far cry from "too drunk to exit the plane under his own power".

Jet,  Of course you're right... but a drunk for a leader is a drunk for a leader.  I remember watching our former PM (while still in office) being interviewed one night and he was obviously drunk...  It was early evening so maybe a long lunch was responsible?


Offline DKMM

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Re: Boris Yeltsin: Hero of Russia has Passed Away
« Reply #32 on: April 25, 2007, 11:57:56 PM »
jb that is not an accurate portrayal facts but I see your point.  Gazprom (which I own a slice of) was a state controlled venture under the USSR  and still is.  It was Yeltsin who brought it back under state control by outright seizing of assets.  Ditto with Ros telecom, part of Svyazinvest and many more.

I've made obscene returns on these companies so I don't know how my "foreign investment" is being funnled to Switzerland.

If you meant Yukos, then you get the red star next to your name!  :P

Here is an excerpt from an excellent article regarding Yeltsin's passing.

"People ultimately control their own destiny. Whatever others' failings, no nation can ultimately blame another for its failures. And it was Yeltsin's numerous failures to act -- on corruption, on the mafia, on police brutality, on the oligarchs -- that made "reform" a dirty word in Russian, figuratively. Meanwhile, Yeltsin's actions literally transformed words like "democracy" and "privatization" into pejoratives -- dermocracy and prikhvatizatsiya ("excrement-ocracy" and "grab-it-zation," respectively) in the language of the Russian street.

By waging war on the Chechen people -- twice -- for the crime of seeking independence; by shelling his own Parliament, with the people's elected representatives inside; by turning the independent media into a tool of Soviet-style, state-sponsored propaganda in the 1996 presidential election, Yeltsin deprived the word "democracy" of any meaning within the Russian context.

Through scandals such as loans-for-shares, Yeltsin gave away the crown jewels of the Russian state to a team of oligarch bankers in exchange for filthy lucre. Granting carte blanche to USAID-financed locusts like Jonathan Hay and Andrei Schleifer, who robbed Russia blind under the guise of setting up a "stock market," Yeltsin discredited the market economy.

The list of Yeltsin's failures rolls off the tongues of those of us who lived through them, who endured eight years of alcohol-soaked diky capitalism. We watched the elder generation wither away, the workers go unpaid for months on end, while the mob, the bankers, and the Yeltsin cronies got richer. We awoke every Monday wondering: "Did the president get soused this weekend? If he woke up with a hangover, then he'll be firing another prime minister, and who knows what the next Cabinet will look like?"

Those years culminated in the Great Default, and the Crisis, of August 1998, when Yeltsin croaked to a nervous nation: "I firmly and clearly assure you that there will be no devaluation" -- and then devalued the Russian ruble three days later. He banned the repayment of private foreign loans, reneged on debts to the IMF, and sent the ruble tumbling 70% in value over the course of a month.

Russia's economy shattered, its reputation in tatters, Yeltsin entered the final phase of his relationship with the United States. Feuding over Kosovo and NATO, spatting over who owed what to whom, he ultimately named a KGB agent Vladimir Putin first as his prime minister, and then his replacement. And then he exited the presidency, as it were, stage left.

So, you ask me, what is Yeltsin's legacy? It's all of the above, and much more. Because for all of the harm he did to the concepts of democracy, and respect for the rule of law, for all that he did to distort and skew the free market, Yeltsin also accomplished much.

By shelling the Parliament, he kept hard-liners from undermining his administration. By invading Chechnya, he maintained the structural integrity of the Russian Federation. By giving away the nation's greatest companies to insiders, he created vested interests that would fight to keep their property from the Communists. By rigging the 1996 presidential election, he kept those Communists from regaining the levers of power; some would say he headed off a looming civil war.

In so doing, Yeltsin set the stage for Russia's revival. He created an environment in which entrepreneurs could establish businesses.  In so doing, it turns out that Yeltsin left us a market economy after all. One in which individuals -- both in Russia and abroad -- can participate in the wealth creation of Russia's greatest companies."

Which is exactly what I'm doing.


Offline swindoom

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Re: Boris Yeltsin: Hero of Russia has Passed Away
« Reply #33 on: April 26, 2007, 01:41:00 AM »
he was a hero and great leader who cared more about his people than himself.
Are you one of the oligarchs who made billions raping Russia under Yeltsin? ???

I have not met a single Russian in the past few days who have anything good to say about him. Many that lived through the early 90's, through the food shortages, no pay, bank savings vanishing and all the other problems despise him.

Offline Shadow

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Re: Boris Yeltsin: Hero of Russia has Passed Away
« Reply #34 on: April 26, 2007, 02:19:43 AM »
Yeltin will not be remebered as a hero, but he will be remembered for being a true human being who was not afraid to show it. He put his health on the line for trying to realise what he thought was right, and discovered that the enemies in Russia are too strong for any president to handle.
Those in Russia who like him do it for his openness. His famous dancing and jokes are what should be remembered.
No it is not a dog. Its really how I look.  ;)

Offline Rvrwind

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Re: Boris Yeltsin: Hero of Russia has Passed Away
« Reply #35 on: April 26, 2007, 06:32:28 AM »
Quote
I can if I want to - and I do! You see, that is what students of history do. Of course, you represent the racist and xenophobic aspect of the Russian soul that does not believe that anyone but a Russian is entitled to say ANYTHING about Russia or Russians. I categorically reject any such notion!
Better watch yourself WimGo. Putin passed a law that says foreigners that publicly critisize the Russian government in Russia will be arrested & physically removed from Russian soil never to return.
In my opinin if your leaders cannot take critisim they don't deserve to be leaders. However they are so paranoid in this country the mere act of taking a picture on a train or in a nightclub can give you no end of headaches!! ::)
My Russian families opinion of Yeltsin was & is - he was a drunk & a thief who left office rich & made his friends rich while regular Russians starved, Hero, not bloody likely. Some are also starting to feel the same way about Putin & his cronies who are controlling all the money from Gazprom & the like. Millions that the regular people will never see but keeps him & his buddies in thousand dollar suits!!!
Nothin' changes but what remains the same. ::)
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Offline groovlstk

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Re: Boris Yeltsin: Hero of Russia has Passed Away
« Reply #36 on: April 26, 2007, 08:55:02 AM »
There's a long but interesting piece about Yeltsin by Matt Tiabbi here:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/14272792/the_low_post_death_of_a_drunk

Here's an excerpt:

"Inconsistent reformer" is exactly the kind of
language the American media typically used when
describing Yeltsin during a period when he and
his friends were robbing the Russian state like a
gang of New Jersey truck hijackers. When I sent
bits of this obit to a friend of mine who had
also been a reporter in Russia during Yeltsin's
reign, here's what he wrote back:
"Yeah, it's a hoot. He simply had no power, for
example, to prevent the misuse of the $1-$3
billion a year that his tennis partner at the
National Sports Fund (Shamil Tarpishev) was
getting from duty-free cigarettes...much of which
inexplicably ended up in his daughter's foreign bank accounts."

What we were calling "reform" was just a
thinly-veiled mass robbery that Yeltsin
perpetrated with American help. The great
delusion about Yeltsin was that he was a kind of
Democrat and an opponent of communism. He was
not. He was, like all politicians who grew up in
that system, an opportunist. He read the writing
on the wall and he threw his weight behind a
"revolution" that turned out to be a brilliant
ploy hatched by a canny group of generals and KGB
types to privatize Soviet assets into the hands
of the country's leaders, while simultaneously
cutting the state free of its dreary obligations
toward the rank-and-file Russian people.

The word "corruption" when applied to Boris
Yeltsin had both specific and general
applications. Specifically he personally stole
and facilitated mass thefts at the hands of
others from just about every orifice of the
Russian state. American journalists, when
chronicling Yeltsin's "corruption," generally
point to minor cash-bribery deals like that
involving the Swiss construction company Mabetex,
which was given the contract to renovate the
Kremlin in exchange for cash payouts to Yeltsin
(at least $1 million to a Hungarian bank,
according to some reports) and no-limit credit
cards in the names of his two daughters, whose
bills ultimately were paid by Mabetex. (According
to reports, charges on the Eurocards in the names
of the two women ran to $600,000 in 1993 and 1994
alone). This is the kind of simple,
Boss-Tweed/Tammany Hall corruption that Americans
understand, and in the eyes of most of the
Western world, for a Yeltsin to dip his beak in a
few million here and there in the midst of such a
violent societal transformation was not really a
big deal. A guy's gotta get paid, right?

Well, not exactly. What Americans missed during
Yeltsin's presidency -- and they missed it
because American reporters defiantly refused to
report the truth of the matter -- was that under
Boris Yeltsin the Russian state itself became
little more than a cash factory for gangland
interests. This was corruption on the larger
scale, a corruption of the essence of the state,
corruption at the core. Some of the schemes
hatched by Yeltsin's government were so
astonishing and audacious in scope that they almost defy description.

Offline WmGO

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Re: Boris Yeltsin: Hero of Russia has Passed Away
« Reply #37 on: April 27, 2007, 12:31:59 PM »
What most everyone has said about Yeltsin is true. He really did fumble the post Soviet transition period. No doubt about it. But the many positive things he did are also true, the most important being bringing an end to the totalitarian system in Russia. Although most Russians do not focus on that part of his legacy, I think that future generations will, and certainly that is his real place in world history. I must confess though that I intentionally inserted the "hero" designation in the title of the thread to put a burr under "someones" saddle which I should not have done (although I truly believe bringing an end to the Soviet system at great personal risk is heroic and clearly changed the global dynamic for the better).

And REMEMBER, it was the end of the USSR that allowed WM and FSUW to get together! So go forth WM and plunder the Booty of Russia ;D

Offline ScottinCrimea

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Re: Boris Yeltsin: Hero of Russia has Passed Away
« Reply #38 on: April 27, 2007, 01:09:13 PM »
WmGo, Did I just hear you issue a booty call?

Offline WmGO

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Re: Boris Yeltsin: Hero of Russia has Passed Away
« Reply #39 on: April 27, 2007, 02:01:03 PM »
That's a big 10-4!  ;D

Offline ScottinCrimea

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Re: Boris Yeltsin: Hero of Russia has Passed Away
« Reply #40 on: April 27, 2007, 02:51:22 PM »
Let me check with my wife first.  (pussy whipped  :crackthewhip: :crackthewhip: :crackthewhip:)

Okay, in deference to the RW here who won't appreciate this type of humor, go check another thread.

Offline WmGO

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Re: Boris Yeltsin: Hero of Russia has Passed Away
« Reply #41 on: April 28, 2007, 09:18:27 AM »
Oops! I meant it more in a macro Global sense!  :cluebat:

Offline ScottinCrimea

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Re: Boris Yeltsin: Hero of Russia has Passed Away
« Reply #42 on: April 28, 2007, 09:22:40 AM »
Thanks WmGO, after I just spent hours explaining the term booty call to my wife, you go and clarify!

 :seething:

Offline WmGO

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Re: Boris Yeltsin: Hero of Russia has Passed Away
« Reply #43 on: April 28, 2007, 09:31:05 AM »
Sorry!! ;D

 

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