Why so Many 17 to 23 Year Olds

[Misha]

Now let me ask you this.   Have you not also read on RWD that women in Russia tend to marry young and that if a woman hits 25 and is unmarried she is almost considered an old maid?  You have probably read that just about as many times. 

Those two statements directly contradict each other.   Which is right? You tell me.  It is totally impossible for both to be right.

My own two cents worth are that there is truth in both.   I think there are immature women in that age range looking for fun and excitement and mature young ladies looking for a husband and family.  Yes, someone who marries a 20 year old is going to be dealing with issues that those who marry someone older will not.  I think that some of the flaws I see in our discussions here are that we tend to look at RW like they were made with a cookie cutter.   They are people and are different.   

Now let me take that a bit further.  If most of the women consider themselves a failure if they are not married by 25 and most of the men are looking at 25+ women are not those guys in the age range of 25 to 45 missing the mark in some ways?  If you decide to go fishing Kuna, are you not better off going where the most fish are? 

Turbo, a few points. From what I have seen, many men here married women who were ALREADY married and often had children. Therefore, there is not contradiction as these women were already married before the age of 25 and at some point they realized that they made a mistake (i.e. they got divorced).

These women are also an indicator of what social pressures existed in the past: i.e. a 30-year-old-woman who got married at the age of 20, may indicate what was common 10 years ago rather than what is common today. Dar is right that women are not as likely to want to get married at the age of 18 as they were a 10 years ago. Also, in Soviet Times there were advantages to getting married young: you could put your name on the waiting list for apartments. Now, most young couples, are forced to live with their parents and rooms and apartments are outrageously expensive both to rent and to buy. There is therefore less incentive to marry as young as was the case in the past.

Also, according to my wife's experience who is 28 and was never married and did not have children, the most common reason for her friends getting married was an unexpected pregnancy. And, I don't think this is a strategy that most foreign men would want to pursue.

[William3rd]

Why, why, WHY does yet another decent thread have to go back to the extreme age difference question?

Does there have to be a disclaimer on extreme age difference posts? Sort of like the one on cigarettes? "Hazardous to your emotional and financial health" perhaps? Or "your actual results may vary."

[Turboguy]

Who is talking about age difference William.  I agree that has been beat to death.  The subject is younger women, lets say 24 & under.  In my post I mentioned primarily guys in their late 20's and 30's and maybe up to early 40's  I agree age gaps have been beat to death.   I am talking more specifically primarily about a 20 year old woman and a 30 year old guy or a 24 year old woman and a guy in his late 20's to late 30's.

So the trend is now that Russian women do not want to marry young.  Instead they are looking for thier second marriage at 25 since they did not want to marry young and only married becasue they were pregnant and since most of the ones I see that age looking for a husband don't have kids they must have thrown the kid out in the dishwater.  Ok!

[Rvrwind]

Here the words of my husband; "I was not going to write to the girls under 25 but your profile was so different from others so I couldnd resist that".

If that was the case why would he even read your profile? Sorry, I ain't buy in that Supermarket.

And he has his international dating experiance since 2001.

Mmmmm, .... Sorry but I been around a long time. I'll BS my friends & you can BS yours but lets not BS each other OK...

In the past he never wrote to anyone at this young age.

Ain't buying that either. You may have fallen for it but I sure as hell ain't. If he wasn't looking or planning to write to ladies as young as you then he never should have read your profile & therefore you would have never met. Too many holes I can drive a truck through...
I may have been born yesterday, but it wasn't last night...

[Turboguy]

Turbo,

We agree on almost nothing.

Kuna

Yes, I agree.  There is only one thing I have found that we agree on and that is the fact that we agree on almost nothing.

Kuna,  I am not offering advice to anyone here.   I am raising a question.  I see two conflicting statements and I was trying to open some discussion on it.

I was not refuting the opinion of a RW on the topic.  I was questioning it and offering another opinion.   I am sure she knows more about how a RW thinks than I do.   I hope you also noted that after she said RW under 25 are not interested in marriage she than added the information that she was 22 when she met her man.   I guess it is just another case of it is OK for me but don't anyone else do the same.   That is fine.

Personally I think RW are more mature than AW and I do think there are many in the under 25 crowd who do want to settle down.  I don't offer that as advice for anyone.  I offer it as my thoughts for discussion.

Kuna, my great all seeing expert on RW may I ask you how many RW you have met romantically to set yourself up as the leading authority on the psyche of Slavic female homo sapiens?

Frankly I think I have met a much greater cross section of women from the age of 19 to 45 than you have and I have seen 19 year olds who seemed quite mature and ready to settle down and 40 year olds with the maturity of a preteen.

One of my feelings about the American dating scene is that if you are dating the 25+ crowd you end up with a woman with both a bunch of kids and a bunch of baggage and finding a good prospect to spend your life with is not the easiest thing.  I watch my son in his dating efforts.  The local gal he sees right now has 4 kids.  He is happy with her and likes the kids so that is all that matters.   I think the fact that it is possible to find a woman in the FSU who does not have as much emotional and maternal baggage is one of the lures for men.    

[Misha]

Who is talking about age difference William.  I agree that has been beat to death.  The subject is younger women, lets say 24 & under.  In my post I mentioned primarily guys in their late 20's and 30's and maybe up to early 40's  I agree age gaps have been beat to death.   I am talking more specifically primarily about a 20 year old woman and a 30 year old guy or a 24 year old woman and a guy in his late 20's to late 30's.

So the trend is now that Russian women do not want to marry young.  Instead they are looking for thier second marriage at 25 since they did not want to marry young and only married becasue they were pregnant and since most of the ones I see that age looking for a husband don't have kids they must have thrown the kid out in the dishwater.  Ok!

What exactly do you mean by "most of the ones I see that age"? Who are you still seeing? But, you are confusing a number of things.

Yes, many women who are looking over the age of 25 were married or have a child. When they were first married (18-20) it was still common to marry young and this was anywhere from 5 to 10 years ago. Now, young women in cities have a harder time. Few young couples can afford to buy even a room in an "obshezhitie" without the help of their parents, so most will have no choice but to live with their parents after marriage. This makes for a difficult marriage to say the least. So, given the present housing challenges, younger women are less likely to jump into early marriages.

And, again, there are differences in the range 18 to 25. A woman closer to 25 will have had more life experience than an 18-year-old. She will begin to look at life quite differently than the 18-year-old. She likely has had one serious relationship and has likely worked. Simply put, she will have had more life experience and will have a better grasp of what it means to be in a serious committed relationship and what to expect out of life.

[Eastguy]

My concern with that age group is exploitation - from both sides. Personally, I think agencies should not post photos of teenage girls.

Despite the dehumanization that occurs in a  decadent civilization such as ours ,and the curious alliance of puritamism and feminism propagating this mindset in this country the opposite is true IMO.

i.e. teenage years in women are the perfect time to start looking for men most seriously.

It comes natural.

When you observe the social dynamics of  a highschool it is all about jockying for postion in the mating game, since those young minds havent been polluted by the abstract ideas of our "zeigeist" telling them whats "proper" yet.

The trend by AW's to often not look for husbands  seriously, until they are late 20's, flys in the face of human nature.

a womans fertility is at its peak from the mid teens to the mid 20's declining from 27.
The late year, high medical support, child bearing so often quoted in US media misleads women.

half of women over 32 need medical help to have children.

In other words, why articifially rob women of their fertile years and arbtitraily say "teenage girls shouldnt be advertised".

Keep in mind all human beings have the majority of thier ancestors born by teenage mothers as life expectancy in neolithic times was mid 20's...

And we are the exact same human beings we were then, cars and air condtioning nonwithstanding.

The more we deny this, the more we dehumanize oursleves

[Dar]

Also, according to my wife's experience who is 28 and was never married and did not have children, the most common reason for her friends getting married was an unexpected pregnancy. And, I don't think this is a strategy that most foreign men would want to pursue.

Exactly!

[Eastguy]

deletede cuz I doube posted when i tried to edit

[ScottinCrimea]

So if I understand correctly, those RW that are now 25+ would consider themselves "old maids" while those who are currently 18-25 wouldn't  consider themselves as such if they are not married by 25.  I think this makes sense with all of the changes that have occurred in the FSU over the past few years as some have mentioned.  I think in general there really is a difference in attitude between the two groups.

I also think that what many here are forgetting is that just because a 20 year old wants to get married, it doesn't mean that she is ready for marriage.

[Dar]

If that was the case why would he even read your profile? Sorry, I ain't buy in that Supermarket.
Mmmmm, .... Sorry but I been around a long time. I'll BS my friends & you can BS yours but lets not BS each other OK...
Ain't buying that either. You may have fallen for it but I sure as hell ain't. If he wasn't looking or planning to write to ladies as young as you then he never should have read your profile & therefore you would have never met. Too many holes I can drive a truck through...
I may have been born yesterday, but it wasn't last night...

What a "nice" post!
Henry can answer at these questions better then me.

One thing, I guess, must be said here. I am not typical kind of a woman. So my profile was VERY different from many others. It is not about photos only.
 And.... I do not believe that if a man is not interested to date a lady under certain age, he doesn't read or look occasionally at  the other women's profiles or photos in order to simply look at them  

P.S. As Henry thinks, it is important, I add that He received my profile along with my letter. That he couldn't resist

[Turboguy]

What exactly do you mean by "most of the ones I see that age"? Who are you still seeing? But, you are confusing a number of things.

I am not seeing any.  I have not read any profiles for a year.  I am sure things have changed in that year but I doubt if it is a night and day difference.

Yes, many women who are looking over the age of 25 were married or have a child. When they were first married (18-20) it was still common to marry young and this was anywhere from 5 to 10 years ago. Now, young women in cities have a harder time. Few young couples can afford to buy even a room in an "obshezhitie" without the help of their parents, so most will have no choice but to live with their parents after marriage. This makes for a difficult marriage to say the least. So, given the present housing challenges, younger women are less likely to jump into early marriages.

Personally I think even girls of 15 and 16 dream of finding their Prince Charming. marrying him and having a family.  They may see it as a few years in their future but I think a lot of the boys they look at they evaluate as future husbands.  Isn't the problem with affordable housing and other economic issues some reason to look in another country?  Don't you think some of them see marriage with a foreign man as an exotic adventure that may appeal to even the very young?

And, again, there are differences in the range 18 to 25. A woman closer to 25 will have had more life experience than an 18-year-old. She will begin to look at life quite differently than the 18-year-old. She likely has had one serious relationship and has likely worked. Simply put, she will have had more life experience and will have a better grasp of what it means to be in a serious committed relationship and what to expect out of life.

I would have a hard time arguing with the fact that the average 18 year old will likely be less experienced than the average 25 year old.  I do think there is a lot of difference in the maturity levels of people as individuals.   I look at my former fiancee and see someone who had the maturity and experience of a 12 year old and I look at my current fiancee as someone who has the maturity of someone much older than her years on this planet.  I think Dar may well be a good example of a mature women who at 22 was ready to settle down in a marriage.   

To me what it boils down to is that if a girl has less experience and decides to get married that the marriage may be more challenging than it would be otherwise.  If the guy is in his 20's or early 30's he too is going to lack some experience but that does not mean it will not work.   When I look back on my first and only marriage, she was 18 when we married.  She wanted nothing more than to settle down to marriage and family and was not interested in wild parties and discos as some here would say would be typical.  Personally I think there are RW who want to settle down with a good man and have a family and have no interest in being a party animal.  Yes, there are some who have no interest in a husband at that early age and they may be the smart ones.

Dar, I can relate to what your husband told you and I belive it even if Richard does not.  I too had made up my mind to look for a little older woman on my last go round.  I sat and looked at my fiancee's listing for a long time.  I just was so attracted to the things she said about herself and I liked the photo as well.   I could not resist even though I had planned to target my search in the over 30 set.  I had dated some younger women in the past and been engaged to one and I think her listing was about the only one I wrote to who in her twenties. The things she said and the way she said them were just too good to resist. 

[Misha]

Turbo, you quote your first marriage. When was this? 50 years ago? 40 years ago?

[Turboguy]

Yep, and it was a different world in those days but women are still women, at least I hope so.

[Simoni]

If that was the case why would he even read your profile? Sorry, I ain't buy in that Supermarket.
Mmmmm, .... Sorry but I been around a long time. I'll BS my friends & you can BS yours but lets not BS each other OK...
Ain't buying that either. You may have fallen for it but I sure as hell ain't. If he wasn't looking or planning to write to ladies as young as you then he never should have read your profile & therefore you would have never met. Too many holes I can drive a truck through...
I may have been born yesterday, but it wasn't last night...

Sorry, Richard...but you are wrong here. I personally know both Henry and Dar.  Both are great people...and honest.

And it's true that Henry did search for Dar for several years....but was patient until the right girl (Dar) came alone.

And if you have read Dar's writing here over the last year or so, you are likely surprised that she is only 24.  She is extremely mature, and it comes across in both her writing and in person.  So yes, when Henry read her profile, IT WAS DIFFERENT and so he did decide to write someone under 25.

Age is relative.

[Dar]

Thanks, Simoni, for the kind and wise words!

[SANDRO43]

With this latest information, the time is now ripe for yet ANOTHER, nice, stimulating age-gap debate .

[Turboguy]

With this latest information, the time is now ripe for yet ANOTHER, nice, stimulating age-gap debate .

Ok, Dar, just for the fun of it, how old is Henry?   I agree with Simoni.  You do seem mature for your age.  I have no idea how much of an age difference you have but I doubt that it will be a problem if you do have some differences in your age.

[Misha]

Yep, and it was a different world in those days but women are still women, at least I hope so.

They are still women, but 50 years ago women got married because they felt they HAD to, not because they WANTED to.

[Turboguy]

Had to???   Well, I would say it was crowd psychology at work.  That was what thier mothers did and thier friends did so in that sense yes.  Kinda like the thing the agencies try to fool us into beliving RW are like now.

[Dar]

With this latest information, the time is now ripe for yet ANOTHER, nice, stimulating age-gap debate .

  

Ok, Dar, just for the fun of it, how old is Henry?   I agree with Simoni.  You do seem mature for your age.  I have no idea how much of an age difference you have but I doubt that it will be a problem if you do have some differences in your age.

Ok, guys, I'll give you this pleasure 

Henry is 23 y.o-er then me. Looking at our pics none can tell that, right? (at the Gallery)  My family couldn't believe, they thought he is 35!
It would be naive and foolishly to think we wont have any problems or arguments living together. But we are both smart and ready for cooperation. I think, this is important in family life.
Besides, I dated an older man and Henry was living 4 years with a girl who also was just couple years older them me now (not eastern European girl), so he has this sort of experience as well. I think, we both can learn something from each other.

We argue sometimes.... mostly because our political points of view are different. Also we can not find a right for both of us solution - who actually has won the second world war 
well... these debates make our life kind of interesting. Generally speaking, I believe that some pepper in the relations is a good thing! You must admit that any dish is much tastier with a little spices 

[55North]

Beautifully off topic, but no country won World War 2 / Patriotic War!  Better to say that 3 major countries lost it (best to ignore their allies as they probably had little choice).

[Turboguy]

So then Henry tries to tell you that Russia won the war and you tell him America one it, right Dar?   I have to agree with North.  No one country won it.   I was going to say more but I think this is not the place or time to start another discussion of WWII or the Great Patriotic war.  I think you two will do fine and I hope your arguments are never about more than who really won the war.

[vwrw]

 After girls and boys celebrated their 18th birthday most of them are responsible adults. If most of 18 y.o. people were not ready for marriage at this age there would not be a law which allow girl and boy marry each other without an authorization of their parents.

IMHO, many of 20-25 FSU girls find themselves ready to marry but their problem is that they do not still have developed the appropriative skills to capture a serious attention of the men the girls would like to marry.  They may catch attention of the desirable men for month or months but after the novelty of the relationship disappears the desirable men disappear too. Of course, there are a lot of men who can be easy seduced for marriage but the girls do not find them to be a good marriage material.

I do not agree that the most common reason for marriage is the pregnancy.

IMHO, I think the most common reason why 18-24 y.o girls get married is lack of self-confidence and having the inferior complex which bring them to situation where they marry the first men who offer them to marry. They haste/rush because of a fear that if they refuse the nice guy, the next nice guy wanting to marry such an “ugly” and “fat” girl may never appear. The saddest thing is that the “ugly” and “fat” girls are such only to THEIR own opinion and most healthy and normal guys could be not agreed with the girls’ conclusion.

IMHO, the second common reason (10-5 years ago) why my 18-24 y.o female-friends get married was a desire to live separately from their parents and out of the parents’ control. And the easiest way to materialize their desire was to marry someone. So, they did it. And as result (just for an example) the grandparents came to live with the parents and the “children” moved to live in the grandparents apartments.   

 
I think the pregnancy is reason number three.

[Blues Fairy]

I think the most common reason why 18-24 y.o girls get married is lack of self-confidence and having the inferior complex which bring them to situation where they marry the first men who offer them to marry. They haste/rush because of a fear that if they refuse the nice guy, the next nice guy wanting to marry such an “ugly” and “fat” girl may never appear. The saddest thing is that the “ugly” and “fat” girls are such only to THEIR own opinion and most healthy and normal guys could be not agreed with the girls’ conclusion.

Bravo vwrw, very sharp point.  Sadly, many kids in Russia were and are still being brought up in a very repressive way.  Low self-esteem is instilled from very young age through constant slaps and derogatory remarks.  Hence the intense urge for self-assertion in both young girls and guys.  Marrying early is one way to prove to your elders you are "worthy" and grown-up enough.  Unfortunately the spouse who was chosen to provide for this psychological need may often be in need of a substitute parent himself.  Such marriages are often short-lived.