Back to Rodina

[DKMM]

OK I'm back hehe.  To be honest, I thought the same things about S.  However, she still calls me several times a day and her emails are much longer than my replies even though her English is poor. 

Not to toot my horn MB, but I am a young good looking loyal relatively rich man.  I have zero worries of a girl coming here and finding a better man (I mean within reason).  There are guys out there though with more disposable income who would be glad to spend there way into her heart. 

I told her I'm a poor man and cannot afford many things.  She says its ok because she can work too and we could survive enough to raise a small family and that she doesn't expect a young guy to have much money.  But honestly I'm losing interest in her fast but that will become clearer in my follow up posts.

[DKMM]

I ran into E outside my flat and immediately hugged her out of happiness to see her.  We set out for a cafe and picked up right where we left off. 

I could tell she was a bit nervous which I always like to see.  I told her we should go to Red Square to meet JazzyClassy and she agreed.  I had talked to JC a bit before this trip so I wanted to meet her.  Jazzy where are you?? hehe, she was a delight and quite the talker.  I'm not very extroverted in multiple person settings so I let the ladies do most of the talking.  I think it set E at ease to meet someone I know from her side of the world.

After we parted from TC we walked back to my place and stopped at a produkti to get some food.  I insisted on champagne and grapes.  Mmmm tasty!  We got ready for a night on the town where I was to meet the friends.  I only had one night in Moscow to impress her friends so it was on me to do my best.

After some drinks we headed for some bar near the Zoo.  The Moscow Metro is a different type of experience with a buzz.  It seemed like I had to force myself not to smile at the dreary faces around me.  Some guy was way better off than I passed out on the floor of the car with people just stepping around him.  Eto Rossiya...

At the bar we met the friends which was fun except for their poor english combined with loud music.  Still, the bar scene is where I thrive so I did the best I could under the circumstances.  We stayed late listening to retro music well after the friends went home (it was a worknight).  I did a lot of people watching and noticed quite a few foreigners.  I met a guy my age from California who was hoping to score but it was hopeless.  You can't just show up in Moscow and expect some girl to think you are cool because you are American, they see it all the time and its nothing special anymore.  I'm sure glad I met E, and I'm sure he was jealous too.

We went to another bar and I was pretty dam drunk at this point, probably 6 or so.  I ordered a double of whiskey like I always do when I've had too much.  Apparently I laid it all out to her at this bar, telling her how much I thought she was great, what I was looking for in a wife and why I was in a hurry so to speak to get married.  I guess she liked it (so she said next day).  At the end I met some Americans at the end of the bar.  The guy I approached was a total ass, but the rest were fine.  E met some American girls in the group and she said they sounded fake and not sincere.  Well yeah honey, that's what I've been saying all along!  They were typical spoiled stuck up AW, good looking to go right along with it.

We caught a cab back and I think I tried to kiss her.  She didn't pull away but didn't reciprocate either.  Probably for the best.  I don't remember the rest of the night but when I woke up she was in her room sleeping and my room was clean so I must have just crashed when we got home.

[DKMM]

The next day I was pretty hung over.  E wasn't too bad but drank less than me.  She went home to get her stuff and I slept till about 2.  I think that was the 1st time I got more than 6 hours of sleep in about 5 nights.

We headed to the station (she's so good about getting cheap rides for us btw and refuses to let me spend more than she thinks is necessary).  We took the aurora train which is the express between moscow and spb.  On top of that, we were in business class as that was all they had left of tickets.  at least we didn't have to bribe our way on to this train.

It was a real treat for her to ride like this and I thought it was fairly nice as well.  The food served was blah but the seats were wide & comfy.  She took a short nap and snuggled up against me.  I could tell E was slowly warming to me the more time we spent together.  I also was taking more frequent fotos of her and I.  It snowed on the way there, probably what you guys were talking about on another thread.  We arrived at the station and I said lets just walk to the hotel as it was only 500m away.

I had a friend in spb that hooked me up with the last minute room and for a good price.  it was a private hotel and a bitch to find but the mobile phone saved me kak obichno.  We stayed on a canal, it was very nice and modern.

That night we went to a British pub and ate chicken wings and had beer.  I couldn't believe my eyes as she ate not only the skin and fat, but also the cartilage off the wings.  I mean she bit right into it you could hear it crunching in her mouth!   

I said a swear word in Russian to that effect and she admonished me right then and there.  She is a conservative modest girl and while its ok maybe in private, I cannot say such things in a public place even though I doubt anybody could hear me.  Just more culture shock I guess.  So we had some good discussion, where she explained that she wouldn't mind if a guy smoked (her ex did) but she would never herself.  I don't smoke but for some reason it kind of bothered me she didn't seem to care.  She explained that most Russians don't care about the long term health effects of such things and leave most of life up to fate.  Then she shared that she used to fake sun tan a lot, like twice a week for 10 years a lot and I could start to see that it was already affecting her skin but only a little bit.  Hmmm ok but she is naturally darker skinned (she is a southern Russian girl) and didn't have to go in for long times so probably not as big of an issue as with us northern whities. 

Anyhow I'm really having fun and she suggests we go to her favorite bar from her student days in spb (about 4 years ago).  Yes I'm quite excited to do that, and I was really feeling good about E.  I was started to realize that she is also very intelligent and has a good matching personality to mine.  Much more so than S.  We went towards the place and everything was just starting to feel great. 

At this point things changed.  We went in and it was Marstall's, which I had stopped by once before not knowing what it was the 1st time.  Its a bar/club but also a strip joint.  Tops only but still, this is not my scene at all.  I thought it was cool when I was a young man but I really don't have any desire for that kind of thing at all.  I REALLY don't have any desire to be with a woman who would go there, much less call it her favorite hangout.  The innocence she was projecting was shattered.  However, she explained that she goes there for the club and ignores the topless dancers.  And that in Russia its not a big deal really.  But I left right away and was just unattracted to her at that point in a big way.  She could tell my mood changed and still tried her best to reassure me that it was just a place she went dancing with her friends when she was younger.  I also knew that place was where foreigners go to try and hook up with the locals (she denies ever doing that sort of thing) and also has a rowdy/seedy reputation (i learned later that it wasn't as bad years ago).

Now I'm not one to judge and I usually don't hold someone's past up in such a light.  But I'm here trying to find a wife and I have to consider all information about someone to get to know what they are really like and not what they are trying to project.  At the same time I have to remember its Russia and things are different there.  She thought I was strange to object to strippers because all men in Russia like that sort of thing.  This was confirmed later by my RW friends too.  I guess it was just that I had some sort of idea in my head about what she was like and that changed it forever.  I went from not being able to say "crap" in a bar to her taking me to a strip joint?  Oy culture shock!

[DKMM]

Oy I wrote a huge part and my computer crashed when I hit post.  OK I will try again:

As we were walking I asked her if there would be a problem to her if I went to a strip club on my own and I was her man.  She said yes!  OK I was confused but at the same time, I got it.  We went to CCCP.  Some drinks and conversation and I went for the kiss a 2nd time!  and a 2nd time denied.

We crashed at the hotel (had two beds of course) and I woke up early to see some snow had fallen, but was gone when I woke up later.  We wandered over to get some bliny and then met her sister.  She was definitely not like E at all at least in appearance.  They laughed a lot and I could tell they were certainly very close.  I was glad to have her there, even though now I was paying for 3 hehe.  Not that I needed to, E is middle class for Russia but I know how it works.  Anyhow, we went on a boat tour and it was very cold.  E was fussing over my cold head the whole time, offereing me her shopka and using her hands to warm up my extremeties.  I could tell she was very close to me, but then again it was very cold.  She said her sister liked me and so did her friends.  OK that was nice to hear. 

After that we wandered over to St. Isaacs to climb to the top.  Sister stayed in the park to watch us.  At about stair 160 I needed to catch my breath.  Little E grabbed my hand and pulled me up the rest of the way.  I’m in decent shape but I can’t scamper up 200 steps like a gazelle.  On top we took in the admittedly romantic views and she explained things about Dosteyevsky and other cultural highlights.  She’s quite educated and holds a master’s degree in culture and fine arts (or something like that).  We were taking in the sights and she leaned over for a smooch on my neck.  Ahh I see how it is, we are playing by her rules!

We went all the way back to our hotel across town and rested.  Her sister was still with us and I played word games with her in Russian.  Finally I laid down for a short nap and sister left.  E came back in and we layed on my bed and talked for hours.  All subjects, things I’ve never considered to ask and the like.  She was really trying to pry my brain open and figure out what kind of guy I am.  She asked me “what would you never do?”.  That kind of question can lead to many places but she must have liked the responses.  I learned that we actually had a somewhat similar upbringing, as much as possible given our circumstances and also same outlook on life and the world around us.  We discussed children and the proper way to raise them.  We talked religion (never an easy subject) and again we had the same views (believers but not very religious). 

I don’t remember the dinner we managed to go get but I know it was quick and we headed back for some much needed sleep.  I said you are staying next to me tonight in your own blanket and that was that.  It worked.  I’m a sneaky bastard and woke her up at about 4am and snuck a kiss in.  It worked.

[IAmZon]

I suppose the time your are spending with E is an experiment.  Your entire trip is!

No matter who you find, there will be a past with some unpleasantness and a future as well.  Thus is life.  You can't be a very RIDGID guy to do what you are doing? Why not hold your opinions until they or proved?  They may be disproved.

Litmus tests seem not to be well applied here.

Best of luck to you, in any case.  I mean it.

[William3rd]

You are worried about her going to Marstall's but its OK for you to get sniveling drunk a night or two before? Lighten up.

BTW- there is nothing wrong with marstall's. Pretty hot bar the dozen or so times I went there. I would be more concerned if she took me to Golden Dolls and they all knew her by her first name.

[DKMM]

Yes yes well I'm trying to post the TR and how I felt at the time.  My feelings now are the same as you, I could give a crap that she used to hang out there, its nothing really.  And topless dancers at a bar is NOT the same thing as a typcial strip joint no matter what.  I just wrote down my feelings at the time.  Plus I think she was testing me a bit.

This was Sunday and we woke up to go to the Hermitage.  But somehow we managed to not leave the room till after noon.  We connected allright because now things were different.  she was holding me everywhere we went.  You know the ol saying, once a RW likes you, its obvious!  We walked around the Hermitage and I just loved it, the culture and E there next to me curious like a child even though she's been there so many times before.  Her sister came along too and we played games about animal noises (Russians have hilarious versions of noises).  E would have a fit everytime we did it too.  But eventually she came around and did the Russian dog noise (gav gav? LOL).

From there it was to Kazan Cathedral where she was to show me how a service is done Orthodox style.  Interesting but not something I would want to attend often.  Afterwards we hit up the cafe across the street overlooking it.  Nice place to chill and eat.  She had my seat pulled up next to hers and it was obvious that she was claiming me.  I was glad she was too because I was learning so many things about myself even from this remarkable lady.  I can't put all the details of everything on here or it would take days to write....

At some point we said bye to sister and I can't really recall that evening.  I don't want to get in trouble on here but lets say I won't ever forget it either. 

The next morning was my last in Russia.  Now E was calling me sweet names and everything else that comes when you get "claimed."  We went to get a taxi but they charged 700 rur which made her disgusted.  I said lets just take the taxi, but she refused and flagged down cars until she found one that would do it for 400.  Now I can't tell if that was because she was trying to impress me?  It sure as hell worked I can say that.  This is someone I could merge my financial world with, which is a big part of marriage isn't it?

I had purchased a ticket the day before on Pulkovo Air for 85 dollars to fly me back to moscow to SVO1.  I started having visions in my head of Turbo (remember him) on here talking about transferring between airports but I didn't recall the details.  Anyway, we got to the airport and found the special area that handles such flights.  She stayed with me till I had to leave.  It was a sad moment.  E always was so happy and cheerful while I knew her and now I saw a serious not-happy E.  My 2nd painful goodbye of the trip came and went and I got going.

The flight was an interesting experience like taking a time warp back to the 70s.  I found the white bus to SVO2 thanks to my poor Russian: etot avtobus edit b shermetevo dva?

Thus began the long journey home that included a diverted flight to Cologne with the scariest dam ride I've ever been on.  It was like we were riding an avalanche down.

[DKMM]

Postlogue:

It took some time to clear out the cobwebs.  Even while posting this trip earlier I didn't know what was going on.  I was trying to figure out which girl I really like better, but deep down inside I knew E is the one for me. 

We talk several times a day, she sms's me much more than I do her and says such sweet amazing things.  Today I figured out that I will make plans to see her again and drop S.  Its not terribly easy to do let me tell you.  I hope nobody ever has to go through choosing between two ladies he really likes because its like endless second guessing and hard to concentrate.  However the more I come back around to reality here its obvious that one girl is my match long term and one was just my match while I was in Russia for a time.

This is the way its supposed to happen.  If you come home and are wondering if she likes you, then the answer is no!

Now instead of getting all crazy over E and smothering her I've been laying back and letting her make most of the moves.  I know we aren't in "love" yet and need to see each other again before we move our relationship to the next level.  She asked me to be exclusive with her and I can agree to that.  Today was a mad scramble to figure out when and where to meet again ASAP.  We settled on the Dominican Republic based on cost mostly as its fairly last minute and flights to europe are sold out for me.

If things work out for us, my next TR won't be so detailed.  If they don't, I hope to share more learning experiences on here.

[Simoni]

Great Trip Report, DKMM!

Best wishes to you as you get to know "S" better in your next meeting.  My advice to you is to spend even more time getting to know her than you did searching for her.

Cheers,

~Simoni

[DKMM]

Its E, not S that I'm meeting up with Simoni. 

btw i'm bringing a ring just in case, but I'm not planning on using it.  I think the best way to go is to use a fake rock and tell her she gets the real one when she gets here; so she can choose the type of rock of course and also not change her mind and walk off with a 5k diamond. 

[Simoni]

oooppps! 

[IAmZon]

We don't know each other very well, but I almost flew out of my seat when you said the "ring thing".  NO BROTHER, NOT THAT!!!!

You wrote: "Now instead of getting all crazy over E and smothering her I've been laying back and letting her make most of the moves.  I know we aren't in "love" yet"

AND YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY PHUCKING RIGHT.

Let it sit and stew ... get to know her; and her you ... don't calculate, or plan.  Be  cool.  Give yourself months, not weeks.  Dude, you should fight the instinct to EXPECT at this stage.  I cannot think of an exception to this advise for you.  It's not like you can't see her again in a couple of weeks if you want- your FAMOUS FOR THE 3 DAY TRIP:)

Make your steps with certainty

[IAmZon]

How could this thread have ended so abruptly!?!?!?

I feel like I was watching Sopranos and now I am waiting for next season.

[Jazzyclassy]

am sure DKMM is writing the scenario now in order to suit your expectations with his next season hahahahaha

[DKMM]

Well that was the end of my trip Rivardco, what more do ya wanna know?   

Obviously things are going well otherwise I'd be on here posting the details asking for advice.  Its nice not having doubts...

[IAmZon]

I'm happy for you DKMM.  You have applied much effort, and seem like a top flight kinda guy.

OK ...
Will DKMM buy a ring before the vacation?
Will J learn not to take DKMM to clubs with topless dancers?
Will DKMM drink too much and spill out his heart for J to see?
...  Tune in next season to find out.

[DKMM]

I already bought the ring for E.  Btw J is my friend now and is coaching me from the sidelines (albeit with a tinge of envy).  Before you think i've gone soft, I didn't get it because I plan on using it.  Instead, I have it in case I want it.  Should the moment arise I don't want to be without one.  And its a fake so its not like I went and made a huge investment.

I wish I could let her stew but instead I have to make these plans which requires a constant trying to find common times to communicate.  And a host of other day to day issues. This stage of RW hunting is actually more difficult than the search phase...

[IAmZon]

Excellent!  the ring just in case ... wise thinking.

I appreciate your remarks and the great effort it takes to find common ground.  I have noticed that it is the INTENTION that is most important to communicate.  Often the words get in the way.

When is your trip scheduled?

[groovlstk]

Its E, not S that I'm meeting up with Simoni. 

btw i'm bringing a ring just in case, but I'm not planning on using it.  I think the best way to go is to use a fake rock and tell her she gets the real one when she gets here; so she can choose the type of rock of course and also not change her mind and walk off with a 5k diamond. 

DKMM,

You've taken your time in this pursuit and you've been extremely selective; everything else being equal, you've set yourself up to have an opportunity at succeeding where many fail.

So why are you thinking engagement, now? Putting a ring on a woman's finger is not something you should do with misgivings--if you think there's a possibility she'll walk off with your investment then you have no business proposing.

Get a hammer and beat that fake ring into a pair of cufflinks.

Why not just enjoy your time with E and continue getting to know her?--you obviously have the time and resources. Thus far in your pursuit you've been selective and have refused to rush into anything, why change tactics now? Just my 2 cents, but you've been smarter about this than 9 out of 10 guys here who are pursuing RW, I'd hate to see you toss caution to the wind, now.

[jb]

How tacky is putting a fake ring on the finger of the woman you are supposed to love and cherish?  That's gotta be way up there on the list of the 10 dumbest things a man can do.

[Mir]

[How tacky is putting a fake ring on the finger of the woman you are supposed to love and cherish?  That's gotta be way up there on the list of the 10 dumbest things a man can do./quote]

Hahaha

Girl: 'You said you will get me a car, now why did you get me a diamond neklace?'
Man: 'What can I do, fake cars are not available'

I know boys who would give a ring to get a leg up, maybe.......

[START2]

DKMM,
  I'm inclined to agree with Groov and jb here. Traditionally an engagement ring supposedly means that you are in love and that you intend to marry. Not something you give to a woman to reserve her for a later decision. I don't think you need to rush it even with plans to have it just in case you need it. Maybe re-think it and keep visiting till you're sure. If you want to give her a ring it seems there are such things as promise rings, but that seems weird to me too. Maybe you should ask her if she wants to have an exclusive relationship and that will give time for your relationship to grow. No need to rush things now.

[ScottinCrimea]

It seems kind of strange to me, too.  You're saying that you love her and trust her enough to marry her, but not enough to give her a real diamond.  So what happens when she has the ring checked out and learns that it's fake?  You're walking into a minefield here.

[jb]

There are 4 precious stones, they are: diamonds, rubies, sapphires, and emeralds, all others are semiprecious.  If you don't feel the need to give a diamond, at least give one of others.  Most women are pretty savvy when it comes to good jewelry.  Pawning off a zircon hoping she will believe it's a diamond is pretty poor behavior,,, IMHO.

[KenC]

It seems kind of strange to me, too.  You're saying that you love her and trust her enough to marry her, but not enough to give her a real diamond.  So what happens when she has the ring checked out and learns that it's fake?  You're walking into a minefield here.

Scott,
He isn't trying to hide the fact that the ring is fake as he said he would give her the real deal once she came to America and married him.  This whole deal smells bad to me.  "Fake" ring for a "fake" relationship or he is trying to buy her affection with promises of expensive jewelery in the future.  Bad bad bad.
KenC