Cindy Agency question

[Simoni]

2.  How best to meet women from Cindy Agency. 
Option 2 - Select 4-5 women and trade 4 letters with each.  Then go meet them if the semi-canned responses intrigue you.  Cindy will waive the meeting fee if  you write a certain number of letters. Cindy will arrange other meetings if the correspondents are unsatisfactory.

Excellent post, Gator!  This was the exact strategy I used.  I met one girl from the select group I really liked, and followed up with her the next year....with multiple visits.  Now she lives with me 

This occurred in my second year of dating girls from the FSU, after three failed WOVO trips.  So, my experience says your advice is great...thanks for sharing.

[jakeob]

Simoni

You have decided to believe  after reading my post, that the girls that didn't show up to meet at Cindy agency , is becuase they worked out i have got a bad attitude,  ok let me try to explain

1 I had exchanged 3 or 4 very nice letters with each girl, the girl told me in there letter, just how wonderful they thought i was, and how they would just LOVE to meet me in the very near future.

"2 When i left for the airport things could not have been better

3 if a girl thinks you are an ass hole, she wont write to you Simoni "Thats how it works"


As said before i was the victim of the "Bait and Switch" scam ,,,,and Scam!! it is in my view,,,, if you found a girl there, well bloody good for you, i am not attacking you or how you went about dealing with cindy. So why have you decided to attack me?

[Gator]

I recommend Cindy because my experiences with their women were productive, sincere and not expensive.  However, a man needs to know what is happening at Cindy (and probably many other agencies) so that he does not delude himself.

While waiting at the Cindy offices, I have observed the interpreters calling women, reading letters from men to them, taking notes, and writing replies to the men via email.

The man opens her letter and says "how wonderful".  How much is what the woman said vs. what the interpreter added is a guess.   I think a woman's typical response is partly truthful and spontaneous, partly canned (something the woman wrote in letters to previous men which would be on Cindy's computer), and maybe fabricated/embellished slightly.  The interpreters get paid less than $1.00 to write these letters, so you can imagine that they are not going to take a lot of time to draft something original. 


Women receive many letters, particularly the hot women.  Most men write but never make the trip.  So the women do not take this seriously until they know that you are coming to meet them.  At that time, some go to the Cindy offices (and for some this could be a long trip) to look at a man's photo and to read his profile.  With this information they may decide to cancel.  Also, the interpreters see the men as they arrive and the interpreters may also tell the women that the man is "good", "weird", "fat", "old", etc.  Finally, Cindy staff may encounter some conflicts in schedules (these women have a busy, demanding life) and they do not take a long time to resolve them knowing that there are other women.

The biggest mistake a man can make is becoming too serious before meeting the women.  You know far more about them than they do about you.

[jb]

Gator,

While I know zip about agencies, I do know a little bit about RWs.  What you have described sounds like it might be the typical scene at any MOB office.  Most women have a mental image in their mind about what her future husband looks like.  If in her mind's eye, she pictures herself married to a man with brown eyes, she may reject a man with blue eyes for no reason other than he didn't fit a preconceived idea. 

Many women have bad feelings about things like motorcycles, body art, small towns and farmers, certain professions, different countries, regions and even the local weather.  All of this doesn't begin to address the more important issues such as age, mental attitude, and physical appearance.  I don't think a man should get upset if the woman he has a yen for decides to give him a miss, sooner or later he will stumble up on one or more who think he's the cat's meow.

[Bruce]

Start2 - Sure it is a bummer when things are not working out for a guy on a trip.  However, when that happened to me I would just try to enjoy my 'vacation" in the FSU, with the thought that I am in a target rich environment so good things will happen if I keep my spirits up.  Many men have really had their best luck when their initial plan did not work and just decided to enjoy their time, meet women, relax and see what happens.  I think a lot of the hard working type A guys out there are best off just getting over to the FSU, having their #1 choice not show up, so they can go through the books and meet a bunch of women...............if they relax. 

[groovlstk]

Whenever I was in the Cindy office and they were setting me up on a date, I'd always listen in as the manager phoned a woman and described me to her. I couldn't understand her Russian but she'd always repeat the words "New York City" a few times. I'm guessing she'd say something like, "he looks like a gorilla but he's from New York City," and that was always enough to get me a first date 

[Simoni]

As said before i was the victim of the "Bait and Switch" scam ,,,,and Scam!! it is in my view,,,, if you found a girl there, well bloody good for you, i am not attacking you or how you went about dealing with cindy. So why have you decided to attack me?

Sorry--I was reacting to the story by Neil....not you...  Are you saying you are Neil, also?  See your post above that I was reacting to.  I was making comments on Neil's attitude.

Now--my opinion remains the same....letter writing is not the same as meeting in person.  If a guy writes letters and then shows up at the agency....and is in a huff or has body odor...then the word spreads quickly and yes, girls may choose not to meet the guy....and that is fair.

I remember the guy that showed up at an agency in Kharkov in 2004...He was almost 60 and in a wheel chair.  He got really pissed when the girls he had been writing did not want to meet him!  He was verbally abusive to the staff at the agency, and I can definitely see why girls would not want to meet him.

I'm talking examples here-- not about you or Neil. All I'm saying is twofold~
1)  Girls who write letters to guys have the right not to date them when they arrive;
2)  Half a dozen guys here have had good experiences with the Cindy Agency--but success is up to the guy--not the agency.

[Simoni]

Many women have bad feelings about things like motorcycles, body art, small towns and farmers, certain professions, different countries, regions and even the local weather.  All of this doesn't begin to address the more important issues such as age, mental attitude, and physical appearance.  I don't think a man should get upset if the woman he has a yen for decides to give him a miss, sooner or later he will stumble up on one or more who think he's the cat's meow.

Exactly correct, JB.  Girls do have attitudes about all the things you listed above, with physical appearance being a big one.  Many girls will "bail" when they see the guy in person.  That's another excellent reason why guys show make a visit to the FSU to meet ONE girl are really making a big mistake....

Gator-- on target post, too!

[William3rd]

Many of the guys that go over buy into the agency hype-that these girls are all just dying to marry "somebody" from the US or UK or ??? In actuality, we are just one of the available options to them, just as they are an available option to us.

And, as we decline introductions to certain women due to a lack of attraction or background or age, so they too decline introductions due to the same factors.

There was an article in 2004 in the Kiev Post about Love and Money- Welcome to a Marriage Agency. One paragraph stands out in particular.

TO paraphrase- Hey Mr. Fat Bald Grey 50 plus farmer from podunk Ohio, what makes you think that you can have a 21 year old fashion model from Kiev marry you, come back to your rural farm and live happily ever after?

[WmGO]

That story about the 60 year old wheelchair guy reminded me of the EC Moscow social I went to in 2000. There was a 70 year old man from the States. He was a really nice guy, but I was thinking man this guy should be enjoying his grandchildren - and if he goes to a decent sized church back home he can probably have the pick of the litter of widower ladys.......he was going for the 40 year old women....guess he had some stud still left in him 

[phantom]

I've been reading all the posts and reading this one.  I'm beginning to see about the age difference.  I get letters every other day from the 21 year old, sometimes three days go by.  She's talking about wanting to meet me now.  So, soon I think I'll take the advice and before the trip plan on meeting other girls as well.

[BillyB]

I remember the guy that showed up at an agency in Kharkov in 2004...He was almost 60 and in a wheel chair.  He got really pissed when the girls he had been writing did not want to meet him!  He was verbally abusive to the staff at the agency, and I can definitely see why girls would not want to meet him.

Maybe the girls knew his age and that he was in a wheelchair and he's mad because they were interested in him through letters but not on a date. Maybe the guy had a right to be mad since he was on a "pay to play" per letter program which led him to believe somebody was interested in him, which led him to spend more money. Maybe, just maybe, the girls he wrote to didn't know he exist.

You want the best chance at success in this endeavor? There are certainly roads with less risk. Think about it.

[groovlstk]

Billy,

Earlier in this thread you recommended that new guys ditch agencies like Cindy and use freepersonals.ru or other services that cut out the middleman.

I agree with you for the most part, but it's like advising these guys to go to a 4H meeting on a Friday night rather than a strip club.

For a guy who's focused enough in this endeavor to have chosen a particular city to visit (such as Dnepropetrovsk, where Cindy is headquartered), cruising freepersonals.ru for an entire month might yield about 20 new profiles of Dnepr girls. If he's very lucky, maybe 10 will interest him enough to write to, and of that ten maybe five will write him back... and a month later maybe he's still communicating with one or two girls. I did the freeps awhile back and met some interesting women but the attrition rate was downright scary.

Now, this same guy goes to Cindy's website. You can point out to him that some of the agency girls are professional daters, some of them will never know he exists because her letters will be written by the agency's office staff, or that each letter he writes her will cost him $5. But when he looks at their site he finds not 10 women, not 20, but 30 or 40 or even MORE women whom he's interested in and, guess what?, they're all located in the same city! 

Therein lies the lure of agencies.

[Gator]

Groovlstk,

Great point! 

Agencies make life easier, and give you a wider choice.  It is almost too easy - like shooting fish in a barrel.   I am old enough to be the father of many men here, yet I had no trouble in finding many women sincerely interested in me and young enough to be dating most men here.

Ukraine and Russia - the greatest singles bar in the world.  Not as good as 5 years ago, but still the best.

To credit BillyB, I met my current girlfriend thru FreePersonals.ru.  She is the best of the best. 

[catzenmouse]

I am old enough to be the father of many men here

Dad,

 Can I have my allowance and borrow the car? 

One thing we've seen quite often over the years that a guy surfing the net will find one girl he's interested in in Moscow, one in Sochi, one in Yoskar Ola, one in Kiev, one in Minsk, etc. You can make yourself insane trying to figure out the travel plans, the visas, and all the while you lose a lot of very valuable in country time with the travelling between cities.

Pick a place that you would like to visit just to visit, then concentrate on that place, write some letters, get the addresses of some agencies and go! Will make you life a whole lot easier in the long run. If nothing works out this time pick a different place next time.

FWIW,
 Ken

[Simoni]

Maybe the girls knew his age and that he was in a wheelchair and he's mad because they were interested in him through letters but not on a date.

Nope, not the case, BillyB.  This was not hypothetical, but  a real happening.  I saw this fat old dude in the real chair, and my interpertor later showed me his profile.   Head shot (maybe10 years old), 47 years old guy on profile instead of his actual almost 60, and no mention of the wheel chair.*

Girls get slammed a lot at RWD and other sites, and some with good cause.  But there are also a lot of bad apple guys in the mix, and they are spoiling it for the honest, serious guys....


*The real problem here is that guys think girls (model types) are desperate and will go for them no matter what they look like or what their age or physical condition is.  That's simply not the case.   Top girls anywhere in the world can be choosy, and they are

[Jumper]

ahem, i guess i should clear this up for the hundreth time LOL

(take no offense twobit,, heck it's hard enough to keep everyones screen names straight much less thier details of relationships,,especially years ago now)

anyway -

no, i did not meant my wife thru Cindy.
She was not listed with thier agency.

 Despite this ,they were a big help to both of us thru the course of our relationship there,helped with logistics countless times and with the wedding planning..  and continued to help us with things for her family. Keep in mind , at this point in time i wasnt looking to use thier agency, ,and  these things were done to simply  be helpful.
The owners attended our wedding as friends, and i was honoured they were there.

I did meet some RW thru the cindy agency,
and honestly was very impressed.

but like all agencies and human interaction situations, you need
to  keep in mind you will meet all types,
so look for the good in people,afterall you get what you look for most often
 but don't foolishly close your eyes to the bad.
or to the common situations and mindset of  the culture you are in.

another point to consider..
yes i was very impreessed with whom i met from Cindy.
and know some of those ladies are happliy married for years now.

but something that may influence who you MEET thru an agency,
any agency, more than anything else.

1. i did not write anyone i met. i simply met the RW who were available to meet, when i was there.who were interested in meeting a goofy WM.
2.all the  RW i met where i belueve within 5 to 8 years? of my age.
Most had children.(i liked that, BTW)
3.While in the office looking thru their catalogs, i told the management what personality type i was looking for , or rather felt i would match with,,
and tried to decribe closely and accurately who i was, my situation and outlooks in life,.
and asked for  guidence in whom THEY thought would be a good match for me to meet.
 i closed the catalog and  told anna and katya that i felt silly choosing who to call or meet this way,,,
as a pretty smile in a photo meant little.. i could choose all day and not be nearly as accurate as they would be..
as a photos smile could hide a mean spirited person,, while a
photo of someone with a rather stern look,
could be of a sweet outgoing fun person..i might really hit it off with.. something they would know , i couldn't.

I think photos in these situationms are practically worthless,, and many  base all of their choices of who to meet on this,,
 as they view it as what else is there to decide?

might as well throw a dart at the wall? (which i think i told
the staff i would do , if they dint help me chose who to meet lol)
 I wanted them to not go off of any photo i choose,
but only off whom they felt would be a good match..
they insisted i at least choose some, as of course apperance is important,,but i left this mostly to them,
and  let them guide my hand every time i could force them to ...

  It shouldnt be a surprise, that i  think this had far more to do with me meeting quality sincerely interested individuals ,
than any amount of me picking a nice attractive photo could have..
or for that matter ,me writing a few girls ahead of time.

I have a question for you guys?
as i've seen guys going for years now,,

 how many will go into an agency , after taking the time
and money for a trip.. and simply not pick anyone on apperence or attractiveness ,
and just let the agency , after hacving dinner or a day with you.. to know you a bit,,
decide on a few sincere RW whom they think will really be intetested in you, and you them?

afterall they see gents just like you weekly,,
we all like to thibnk we are special, but we arent

and  they know many of the ladies,and thioer personalities and interests,..

if even a half way honest agency,
they are going to *match you* up as a couple attractiveness wise fairly closely.. as is this is natural for the most part..
(or they wouldnt think the two of you might hit it off, right?)

who they pick, should be a pretty good assesment for you at the least? if you then wanted to pick a few more Rw to meet as well..

isnt it worth that just out of curiuosity of how they percieve you, and how thier RW clients likely will as well?

just a thought or two..




and jb stated:

Many women have bad feelings about things like motorcycles, body art, small towns and farmers, certain professions, different countries

dang, you been talking to my wife again John?   

seriuosly,, she did NOT like my profession, my hobbies, my small town  (called me the *man from the village*, still does jokingly)
nor did she want to move to America,and had big reservations
and worries  about it, the culture and life here long before ever moving..
in fact , ,, she wasnt all that interested in me as a husband.. 
Her mother was the one that kept showing her all my good attributres offsetting all those other things..LOL
 to convince her i was worth keeping around and being interested in ..
but if you can somehow manage to win a nice RW's heart,,
(just be funny, devastatingly charming ,and humble like me , that will work )  you cant possibly shake them then , even if you have all these things,  NOT going for you..LOL

[Rvrwind]

1)  Girls who write letters to guys have the right not to date them when they arrive;

Sorry but I disagree with this statement.
If the guy is good enough to write to & string along  & he fly's halfway around the world to meet her, she is damn well gonna meet him. At least if she wants to remain in my agency she is. We actually just had this happen with a client & the lady in question now has one strike against her, three strikes & your outa here, paid member or not. It reflects bad on her & it reflects bad on my company & it ain't gonna happen very damn often without concequences.
I don't care if 5 minutes into the meeting she don't like him & chooses to leave, but she will do the courtesy of meeting him.
Caveat Empoter:(sp)

Nope, not the case, BillyB.  This was not hypothetical, but  a real happening.  I saw this fat old dude in the real chair, and my interpertor later showed me his profile.   Head shot (maybe10 years old), 47 years old guy on profile instead of his actual almost 60, and no mention of the wheel chair.*

If he has lied in his profile or lied by ommision then he will deal with me long before he will get to meet any ladies. I won't take it from the women & I damn well won't take it from the men!
If a man has been forthright in his profile & pics & has been corresponding honestly I see no reason for the woman to refuse meeting him & will take action against that woman if she does without good reason. After my chat with the lady in question you can bet your ass she will think twice before she pulls this stunt again.

[BillyB]

For a guy who's focused enough in this endeavor to have chosen a particular city to visit (such as Dnepropetrovsk, where Cindy is headquartered), cruising freepersonals.ru for an entire month might yield about 20 new profiles of Dnepr girls.

I'm not so sure a guy is focused if he looks for a wife based on a city. If we're saying we're expanding our dating pool and flying over millions of women to find one, then why not travel over millions more if necessary? A guy who's expanding their dating pool to find the best of the best should be prepared to travel any distance to find that gem. How about a guy, with a clear head and sound mind, focused enough to find a decent woman through correspondence, and then make a good judgement to fly thousands of miles for her and based on the city she just happens to live in, he could find an agency there and/or pre write other girls in the city for back up if necessary? If all else fails, meet women on the street.

I do recognize the benefits of using an agency. Bride.ru and freepersonals.ru does not provide interpreters, tour guides, assistance with accommodations, or make calls for quick dates if plan A fails.

Here's my near surefire way of finding a quality woman: Spend more time doing your homework with the ladies as much as you do purchasing a car. I wrote to hundreds of women increasing my odds of finding that "gem" and she looking at me as a "gem" of a man.

How would a woman convince me to meet her?
1) She must display an effort to get to knowing me by writing me letters and asking me serious questions since she's supposedly looking for a serious relationship.
2) She must be willing to give me her phone number when I ask for it. If she is sincere about me, she will always be enthusiastic when I call. Insincere women can play a game for only so long and they will not maintain a high level of enthusiasm for a guy they don't have the hots for. Also I realize I could be boring a woman on the phone and although she's a good person, we may not be compatable and should not be meeting.
3) She must be willing to give me more photos of herself when asked. Men aren't the only ones who deceive. I send a new/recent photo of myself in every letter I write. When I send less than stellar photos of me in my dirty construction work clothes, I pay attention to the reaction of the ladies in their next letter to me.
4) If a lady could be excited about a decent, normal guy who works in construction, but has displayed some brains through correspondence and I get what I want through correspondence, then I may ask to visit her and where. She had better say to meet the parents, not Paris.

Note: If you do not have the ability to judge a person's character and intelligence through the words they write, then letter writing is a complete waste of time for you and ignore what I say.

[ScottinCrimea]

In all of this we have to keep in mind that strange things can and do happen.  Remember that I met my wife by way of a scammer who was using her photos without her knowledge or permission.

[phantom]

Hey, four of the ladies that I've been writing too, are also on all the AFA sites, does anyone know if they have a connection to the cindy agency?  It's the same girls, same age, bd, etc.  But, different photos, and some look younger also.  Any advice on this?

[William3rd]

AFA PURCHASES many of their profiles from other agencies and then posts them as theri own. They used to give about 10 bucks each or less if they could get away with it. They were usually buying in bulk. There was no verification done, just a purchase and posting.

Cindy agency has been its own agency.

They have provided women for tour parties in the past. Before Cindy Agency, there was another agency providing women until they didnt get paid enough and terminated their relationship, moving on to work with Anastasia.

[Donhollio]

I used them in Nov.05  However I went to thier DNK office and had them call the girls I wanted to meet. Not all agreed to meet me and the manager even told me quietly that she's not the best materail to be wanting to meet. But dam she had a huge rack ! Anyways I also have met with some and one girl who Im staying with right now was a member of this agency, she later told me they do fabercate latters and than once the guy requests to have her phone number ,they change their tone and say " I don't think were compatible" So in the end they milked the guy for 5 -6 letters and all along it was BS.
 If you use them, go direct, they can't fake a girls presents in front of you ,and it'll only cost $15USD per date.
 Also avoid any chick that expects to bring her "friend " along she burning your cash to have a good time.  DON'T BE A MULE !

[Thor]

It is odiously that Cindy agency staff write letters on the behalf of the girls. I had a profile at Cindy and I received so many letters in the beginning. Is it a scam that the agency staff do this? Yes I think so!!! Cindy is not a honest agency, I have heard about so many men coming there to meet girls they have been corresponding with for several moths, but when they are in Dniper the girls have no time to meet them....If you use this agency it could be a good idea to set up the dates with the girls BEFORE your arrival to Dnieper. then you will see if they want to meet you. But remember that Agency's runned by local owners are only business and dirty business. They only wants to earn money...But of course if you go for only the fun and be taking to restauran gs by pro daters, then agency's like this would be good:)). But you need to bring a LOT of dollars:)).

[Simoni]

Well, each to their own...

Readers will have to read this strand and decide for themselves.  However, I would urge the reader to most carefully consider comments made by RWDers who have actually been to Dnepr and used Cindy--not those who have "heard" this or that.

So--I used Cindy in Oct of 2005.   I wrote half a dozen girls.  I met all of them during the 8 days I spent in Dnepr.   I had more time, so I went to the agency and selected a number of other girls I wanted to meet.  The agency called the girls, and many agreed to meet with me.

One of the original six was my favorite.  After those eight days in Dnerp, I continued to write her and then met her, and only her, a few months later.  Her name is Marina, and she is my girl of almost two years now.

Cindy worked for us.

Now, in terms of the charges of made up letters by the agency, I think they are false.  What does happen, is that the agency  will call the girl when she receives a letter.  She dictates her answer over the phone to the operator at the agency.  That operator answers the letter for the girl.  Thus, it's not a direct letter in the sense the girl composed it.  Hence, you could say the girl did not "write" the letter.  But the jest of the letter is accurate.