More France Bashing

[SANDRO43]

And let's not forget about their cuisine

I'd rather cite their vines, that conquered quite a lot of territory worldwide, and still hold it (Cabernet, Sauvignon, Pinot, etc.), and Champagne, of course .

[Bluebell]

I'd rather cite their vines, that conquered quite a lot of territory worldwide, and still hold it (Cabernet, Sauvignon, Pinot, etc.), and Champagne, of course .

Very true, but I will let Coco to say more about wines 

[BC]

As someone wrote France suffered more WW1 casualties on the Western front then any other nation.
The debacle in the Second war may in part be due to the French going soft but the incompetence of French generals was more to blame then a lack of bottle among the solders.
   

I believe only the Russians suffered more military deaths than France did in WW I  something along the lines of 1.5 million and in addition over a quarter million civilian, not to mention another 5 million wounded.  Certainly with a population of around 40 million or so these casualties represented a huge portion of men that could bear arms.  The resulting demographics even 20 years later certainly played a role and maybe even a necessity for efforts to 'lie low' in WWII, seeking treaties with the Germans (later broken) instead.

[coco]

The house of my french business partner was not inhabited since 1914 until he bought it around 1970.The last owner had been killed in the first weeks of the war  in 1914.In central France there are still many houses not inhabited since 1914-1918.

Here an example of a farm house abonned since 1920 when the widow of a soldier moved out.

It has just been rebuilded around 2003.

www.medille.com/

[jb]

I think those who credit the French for saving the fledgling USA are overlooking the reasons why the French aid was eventually given.  Ben Franklin, America's 1st ambassador to France, arrived in France in December of 1776 and lobbied for assistance until 1778, when aid was finally given.  Certainly military assistance was not given because the French monarchy believed in what the Americans were trying to accomplish, they did it simply because they saw an opportunity to humiliate their arch enemy, the British.  There were two major powers in Europe at the time, England and France, and they hated each other thoroughly, in fact, had fought each other for 100 years.   I'm quite sure poor old Ben Franklin had to hold his tongue on many occasions since he was such a champion of the common man.  That he was able to achieve success was more a tribute to his Statesmanship than to the generosity of the French crown.

I'm equally sure that if King Louis XVI and his queen, Marie Antoinette, had known what would be the ultimate outcome of that endeavor there would have been no help for the Americans since the seeds of the French revolution were planted by the American colonies.

Some of you guys read history rather strangely.

[WmGO]

This thread brings to mind an interview of various European people conducted by some news show a couple years ago on their attitudes towards America........a lot of negative opinions obviously........then there was this middle age French lady who said:

" It is really just everyone on both sides behaving immaturely in their attitudes........not accepting each others differences.........and immaturely being judgmental about national differences in history, culture, etc.......instead of appreciating differences...........".

She went on to say something to the effect that too many Europeans and Americans translate different views on appropriate foreign policy into indictments on entire peoples/nations/cultures...........I think this lady was wise........

[LTCOLBIEGARD]

Which ever view anyone wants to present, France and it's people have added alot to our history. Whether art,language, or even combat. France is an excellent place to take a loved one, and if you are single, then check out Rue Blondel in Paris!!  ( Something they make movies about).

The countryside is filled with warm people, most likely to pull you out a bottle of homemade calvados. And yes, they will toast our fine country. The only problem I ever experienced in France was in a Burger King, when some worker tried to make fun of me for saying whopper... But then again, I had about the same experience in Kiev at mcdonalds.  BIG MAK, not big mac you know. That is my problem for eating American fast food!!

In general , educated people will not argue, or treat you with disrespect anywhere you go. Having sponsored people from other lands, well Americans can really treat a foreigner like $hit too... I am not going to say the French  won't argue politics, because that happens anywhere you go.

 Just Enjoy yourself and don't act like an American tourist, just as Japanese tourist tend to hang in groups and take a picture of anything unimportant, we tend to try and deal arrogantly  to other people from other lands.


 Believe me, the legion is French. AS our army is made of soldiers from different ethinic backgrounds, so is theirs. But, consider that the Legion is probably been an ally to more countries and fought in more conflicts than any other country. Also, consider respecting them for joining us the majority of the time. The French are not are enemies , they are our allies.

As far as the Ben Franklin comment, you hung yourself on that one.  

"There were two major powers in Europe at the time, England and France."  

Exactly, no where was America a super power then, GEE,  wonder if we would have been one without allies???? For whatever reason.. DOUBTFUL !!. It  MAybe be our war, but often it's others problems. Remember, were not in Iraq alone !!

Wonder if we would have destroyed the nazis without the Brits?? Or the Russians?? Exactly...


Every country has it's faults, and every country has it's fine points.

I wonder where we would be right now had we not armed against Russia in Afganistan ?? Talk about shooting yourself in the foot...

Sometimes we don't see the whole picture, and sometimes we don't look long term...


Allies today, enemies tomorrow -- or visa versa...

Now how about them damn IRISH????

[SANDRO43]

I think those who credit the French for saving the fledgling USA are overlooking the reasons why the French aid was eventually given.

JB, international politics are seldom, if ever, motivated by sentimental reasons, regardless of public statements to the contrary.

The point is : did "the French .. save the fledgling USA", or did they not ? If yes, not being eternally grateful to them would put you on par with those Europeans "not eternally grateful" to the USA for their WWII contribution .

[SANDRO43]

Believe me, the legion is French. AS our army is made of soldiers from different ethinic backgrounds, so is theirs.

While most of its commissioned officers are French, approximately 10% are former Legionnaires who have risen through the ranks. The rest of the Legion is made up of men from a wide variety of nationalities, with French citizens representing 25-35% of the Legionnaires. The foreign volunteers are primarily European.

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Foreign_Legion#Membership)

Mon colonel, my point is that the French Foreign Legion, being some 70% non-French, demographically is not a typical representative of the French Armed Forces, although it is one of the most widely known and militarily respected .

[WmGO]

The French are not are enemies , they are our allies.

Although I do not always agree with their attitude,  comments or policies vis a vis America.... to the above statement I must say EXACTLY and Amen!

[Mir]

She went on to say something to the effect that too many Europeans and Americans translate different views on appropriate foreign policy into indictments on entire peoples/nations/cultures...........I think this lady was wise........

Exactly and those who criticize US foregone policy or any other social problems in US should not be branded anti-american as they don't hate American people, only resent the mistakes of US governments that make US so unpopular in the world causing resentment against US citizen, sometimes resulting in wanton acts of violence that cause suffering to Innocent American citzens.

[BC]

I would be the first to agree that the French are proud, even of their modern accomplishments and sense of independence - and they should be .  When the rest of Europe and other parts of the world abandoned atomic energy after Chernobyl, the French forged ahead with new plants and fuel reprocessing facilities - going totally against political and public 'grain'.

Now they supply around 90 percent of their own electric energy needs with atomic and hydroelectric plants, not to mention over 3 Billion in energy exports to other EU countries and reprocessing a good bit of the worlds atomic 'waste'.. a very enviable position.

Their expertise and technology in this area is highly admired and requested throughout the world, even in the good ol' US of A.  In fact, at the moment and for a while to come there ain't no one that can beat em.

But guess what.. they only want your money.. EUR please but they don't expect their a$$ to be kissed every time you turn on the A/C.

Just FWIW and an example how 'independent' thinking is not always wrong thinking.

[BC]

Just FWIW and an example how 'independent' thinking is not always wrong thinking.

BTW and to maybe bring this topic more inline with the RW scheme....

IMHO those seeking RW *should*, or even must have the ability to think 'outside the box'..

It really makes me wonder why many initially had difficulty with this topic..

Maybe 'barking up the wrong tree?'

[jb]

I have been to, and through, France many times,,, and I still don't like them.   

[LTCOLBIEGARD]

I 've been to Miami, New York, Detroit and Chicago and I sitll don't like them either....

But , I really hate Egypt.....

URRRRRRRRRRRRRGH !!!

[acrzybear]

I have been to, and through, France many times,,, and I still don't like them.   

I went to Paris in December 2006 and between the dog feces, the cigarette butts everywhere and the rudeness of the Parisians- If I never go back I can live with that. As much as I hate to admit it I will give the French credit for two things

1) I made it a point to visit Omaha beach and the cemetery there-It (the cemetery) was kept in immaculate condition and very solemn.

2)The statue of liberty

All I have to say about that subject.

[BillyB]

I've been to France for a day to attend a carnival when I was five. Lived in Germany at the time and can't remember everything. But I talked to a lot of people who visited France as adults and they thought the people there to be rude. Many of these same people visited other parts of Europe on the same vacation aand said they enjoy other Europeans better. Italy was a favorite of most. Same tourist, same attitude but a night and day difference of treatment from French and Italians.

[Rvrwind]

Hey LTCOLBIEGARD

If you want to count the wars  that anyone has won  go for it... Ireland?? England?? Austrailans??  JAPAN ?? or  Wait CANADA ??  For the most part them days are over....

Before you go picking on Canada you best recall we are the only country in the world that beat the Americans in a war!! Damn near burned down the Whitehouse IIRC, was a long time ago, yes, but that just goes to show the lesson learned was not to piss off the Canadians!!! 
If I recall we had help from the 'French' to achieve that, go figure.

[I/O]

I guess it is fun to bash the French because.........well it is fun to bash the French.  However I do try to take a somewhat balanced view of things and I have come to understand that France does have at least ONE very fine attribute........it is a bloody long way from here.

I/O

[BC]

I've been to France for a day to attend a carnival when I was five. Lived in Germany at the time and can't remember everything. But I talked to a lot of people who visited France as adults and they thought the people there to be rude. Many of these same people visited other parts of Europe on the same vacation aand said they enjoy other Europeans better. Italy was a favorite of most. Same tourist, same attitude but a night and day difference of treatment from French and Italians.

Yes, Italians do smile a lot more than the French on the street.  I wonder what their reaction would have been visiting RU...

[acrzybear]

Damn near burned down the Whitehouse IIRC, was a long time ago, yes, but that just goes to show the lesson learned was not to piss off the Canadians!!! 

You will be receiving a bill for those damages

[jb]

Before you go picking on Canada you best recall we are the only country in the world that beat the Americans in a war!! Damn near burned down the Whitehouse IIRC, was a long time ago, yes, but that just goes to show the lesson learned was not to piss off the Canadians!!!  Grin Grin Grin
If I recall we had help from the 'French' to achieve that, go figure.

And just what "War" was that?  According to my history lessons the only successful assult on the Whitehouse was by the British in Sept of 1812.
http://americanhistory.about.com/library/timelines/bltimelinewar1812.htm

If there was another war on US soil involving the Briits and the French after 1814 I'm not familiar with it. 

[Mir]

Before you go picking on Canada you best recall we are the only country in the world that beat the Americans in a war!! Damn near burned down the Whitehouse IIRC, was a long time ago, yes, but that just goes to show the lesson learned was not to piss off the Canadians!!!   
If I recall we had help from the 'French' to achieve that, go figure.

To say that Canada beat the US in the 1812 war (yes the White House was burnt and Madison ran away in his pyjamas) is sort of implying that India defeated Russia in the Crimean war! For Canada was nothing but a British colony at that time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_1812

[SANDRO43]

I wonder what their reaction would have been visiting RU...

If you mean RUssia, some 200,000 Italians had a "surprise holiday" there in WWII, but, as you can see, they were NOT smiling much (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_war_in_Soviet_Union,_1941-1943).

[Dan C.]

Mir,

  Canada fought quite hard in its defense.  There were relatively few British troops in Canada at that time, as most of the British Army was fighting Napoleon.  Many of those in British uniform were actually locally recruited Canadians.  Then there were many Canadian militia units that fought quite well. 
  The Anglo-Canadian defenders threw back two US invasions, which is something no other country in the world can say. 
  Those that burned down the White House in the US capitol were British, not Canadian, though.


Dan C.