I MADE THE WRONG CHOICE

[MaxxumUSA]

plus there are no proper men available here, I wish he could be living in Russia with me .. forever:)

Jazzy,

Hmm...  This gives me a thought and question I think it might be worth its own thread?

Here is my thought and question that came to mind when I read this.  When I first visited Russia and see my Elena I am usually the center of attention.  All her friends, family, and new people we meet are interested in me because I am a foreigner.  I am the first and only foreigner that Elena has met in person other than when she was out of the country on holiday.  On my second visit the excitement of me being a foreigner did not fade.  Many people wanted to be in my presence just to make my aquantence because of this.  My being American adds to the excitement.

My point:  If I was moving to Russia to be with her I am sure some of this excitement would remain for the rest of our lives or at least as long as I carried a thick foreigner accent.

My question:  What will happen to a RW's excitement about her man when she comes to the USA and there are millions of foreign men here.  When she finds out he's not "all that" because he does NOT stand out in a large group on his home turf.

For me personally I don't fear this because even here in good ol USA I tend to bring excitement and humor to almost all social situations.  But what about those men who are not the life of the party here?  Will she get bored with him quickly?

Someone else that can think of a good title for a new thread should start it.  I cannot think of it.

[Mir]

For me personally I don't fear this because even here in good ol USA I tend to bring excitement and humor to almost all social situations.  But what about those men who are not the life of the party here?  Will she get bored with him quickly?

Everyone is different. Some women (and men) like their partners to be the life of the party while others get worried if their partners are the life of the party.
You can think that you know a person but it is not always true. You may feel that the woman is attracted to to because you can create excitement and she might say that yes this is true. But then a few months of normal life later she might think well she did not want someone who is so excising etc.
It remains a gamble no matter how hard you try to do it the right way.

[groovlstk]

My question:  What will happen to a RW's excitement about her man when she comes to the USA and there are millions of foreign men here.  When she finds out he's not "all that" because he does NOT stand out in a large group on his home turf.

This excitement based on being a foreigner will fade very quickly, in fact it should have faded long, long before your girl arrives in the US. It's like the infatuation stage of dating and it should be staked in the heart like Dracula before a serious commitment is made. FWIW, on my first few trips I enjoyed the attention from people who had never met an American before, but subsequently I came to loathe it and I think it's dangerous to embrace this energy and allow it to make you think you're somehow "special" over there--you're not, you're simply a curiousity.

[MaxxumUSA]

This excitement based on being a foreigner will fade very quickly, in fact it should have faded long, long before your girl arrives in the US. It's like the infatuation stage of dating and it should be staked in the heart like Dracula before a serious commitment is made. FWIW, on my first few trips I enjoyed the attention from people who had never met an American before, but subsequently I came to loathe it and I think it's dangerous to embrace this energy and allow it to make you think you're somehow "special" over there--you're not, you're simply a curiousity.

Agreed off topic.

I started the new thread for discussion here:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=5022.0

[WmGO]

English is really important,guys,dont ignore this-you may be surprised when your woman learns it finally-you may not recognize her personality.

Pravda.

[WmGO]

... in the USA there are plenty of great women very strong and smart and still not spoiled:)

Pravda.

[WmGO]

Gator,

Sorry to hear about the demise of your relationship. But I really respect your sharing such a detailed analysis of why it did
not work out. There is a LOT in there for everyone to learn from and not just newbies.

Good luck.
WmGo

[Son of Clyde]

Gator,

Very sorry to read this but I know you are a good guy and there is a nice lady waiting for you. Best of luck.

The one thing that bothers me in every relationship is the "letting go" phase. I tend to maintain feelings with women I have broken up with and you need to move on. It is probably a good thing though to leave on good terms it is just the thought of someone once being a large part of your life now being in the past.

People are resiliant so I know you will move on and meet the right woman for you.

[KenC]

Gator,
Sorry for being so late in sharing my thoughts.  Also so sorry things didn't work out like you had hoped.  I find it very interesting that such a respected man as you brings out all the best people on RWD to give a helping thought or at least a sympathetic ear.

You are a very cautious and analytical man.  I remember on the other forum that I would question you as to why you were dragging your feet so much with your Moscow girl.  Your choice of title for this thread is quite interesting too.  Is it possible that you have never really gotten past the Moscow woman?

In reading your opening post to this thread, I would say the one most important point you make is:
"she can not work in America and will feel isolated, and she does not trust that I will provide for her if she marries me and comes to America. "

The "isolation" thought is true and unavoidable, but with having younger children it would lessen the problem greatly.  The part that really bothers me is that your relationship ends on a misconception or a miscommunication.  You know better that she would be provided for more than adequately.  How were you not able to make her understand this?  Or is it possible that this is just an excuse she choose to use?  In reading your following posts it seems as though her real reason for moving on is that she found someone else she preferred over you. (Sorry)  The "other" items on your list of post relationship analysis are well, way too analytical and smack of sour grapes to me.  "It was never gonna work because ...." type of thing.  In the end, it is an impressively long list that doesn't add up to diddly.  But if it make you feel better, so be it.

I wonder if getting back with Miss Moscow is the right thing to do?  Of course you and only you can make that decision.  But be careful of the old "absence makes the heart grow fonder" thingy. 

I will share a little story about my life with you.  I had broke up with the original Mrs.C and began dating others.  I ran into her by chance and had a rush of old emotions over come me.  We were soon engaged and went on to over 20 years of marriage together.  Although there were many good times and accomplishments (including two great children) the very same things that had caused the break up, kind of haunted me through out the marriage.  There were valid reasons for breaking up with her and they never really ever changed.  Just some thoughts to share with you.  Point being that Miss Moscow isn't necessarily the "right" choice either.  The "right" choice may still be out there somewhere else.

Best of luck to you with whatever you decide.  Sorry for the rambling thoughts, but I wanted to share them with you.
Sincerely,
KenC

[Simoni]

The "right" choice may still be out there somewhere else.

Gator, that is my sense, too.

But by all means satisfy yourself that Miss Moscow is not the one for you first....and only then move on.

Good luck!

[Gator]

And I thought this thread had died. 

Thanks everyone for the encouragement.  It has been overwhelming.

KenC, in your usual pragmatic and analytical style, you are probably correct about both women.  I am withholding comment on the Moscow woman because we continue to talk. 

Regarding the Cossack, a Russian man probably caught her fancy.

-   On one hand there is a Russian man speaking her language, acting in the way she wants, and lavishing her with gifts (she told me at the end, “you do not buy me machine, Russian man buy me new Audi - many money”). 
-   On the other hand, there is me, speaking a language she was having trouble learning, moving her to a foreign culture where she would feel isolated and vulnerable to mistreatment, and behaving differently from Russian men.

Because she is capable of earning a good income in Russia, she does not need me or any man as a provider.   Thus, only love would compel her to move to America. 

Was it possible to win her heart?  She told me early that she has not loved a man in 15 years (two marriages in that period).  So maybe I was attempting the near impossible mission.  She is beautiful, most sexual, and has panache and joyful personality, when in a good mood - I should feel proud, lucky and honored that she stayed with me for over a year.  However, I still feel a little depressed about what could have been (in my dreams).

Over the weekend I decided to try UW and RW one more time.  As Leslie remarked at the beginning of this thread, I do not have a lot of time remaining, so no more 3-year relationships.  Where is that guideline for One Week Wonders!

[Mir]

“you do not buy me machine, Russian man buy me new Audi - many money”). 

And she accepts the expensive gifts before she ends the relationship with you?

[Serebro]

Gator, I am sorry about your broken relationship.
I know that you will be able to find your Lady!;)

[IAmZon]

Perhaps this is overly philosophical, but you should fight the instinct to feel pressured by time.

I think I am 20 years younger than you, but I may die before you.  Everyday is a gift, and a long life is a blessing, not a certainty.

All of life, even relationships are a journey, not an end in themselves.  There is not secret the to one week wonder ... it is attachment.  You have had two!  Likely to have three, maybe more? 

Enjoy the ride

[KenC]

And she accepts the expensive gifts before she ends the relationship with you?

Mir.
Due to lack of English (and facts) we do not know if the car was given or promised.  We also do not know if Gator ever established an exclusive relationship with her.  Besides, what does it matter now?

Gator,
You asked:
Where is that guideline for One Week Wonders!

There is only one guideline: Don't do it or you're an idiot!  I know you were trying to be funny because you could never do it---EVER!  Good luck to you, my friend.
KenC

[Gator]

Me a OWW!  No way, Jose.

For the curious:

The car was not given, only promised I presume.  She asked me for a car in late March and I naturally declined saying that in 6-7 months she would be in Florida where I would buy her a great car.  This was probably about the time this RM was promising an Audi and writing her poetry and doing whatever else he needed to do to attract her.  I guess the RM promising a car was probably a past boyfriend (and she had several).

The Cossack was frugal.  However, no one can take a RW to Italy and not buy her some stylish Italian fashions, so I had already spent some good but not extravagant money on her when we parted.  She wanted to give the presents back to me, and  I declined. 

We had planned to spend our final afternoon to buy some good shoes in Milan, yet the day before we ended everything.  She could easily have played me for those shoes, but she did not.  In fact, she could have continued to receive the monthly support I gave her up until my next visit.  She did not.

Were we exclusive?  She said so, and I tend to believe her based on her actions and many other clues (e. g., she had long ago stopped taking birth control pills because I have a vasectomy). 

I think I have talked enough about this episode.  It is behind me, although some thoughts still linger.

[KenC]

Gator,
I apologize in advance for prolonging this thread, but I think there is something very valuable to be learned here by others:
Do not underestimate the competition of from Russian men!

I know it is popular here to generalize that all RM are inept drunks unable to support a family or more to the point, support a real effort to romance their women.  WRONG!  You guys better think again if you think your financial advantage is going keep you safe from RM taking a run at your girl.  From what I hear, RM have all the moves (and more) and are willing to spend their last ruble to gain a lady's fancy.  And let us not forget the fact that there are at least a few RM that are loaded in their own right.  Never assume your pretty woman is not going to still be getting major attention from the locals.
KenC

[macman]

My fellow Floridian,

That is if you are indeed from Fl.; I have read all the posts - you have continued to discuss this woman.  Being over a woman means not discussing her further - I learned this recently from a female friend!  You are light-years futher than the neophites (us) that are on the board.  My point?  Talk and share until it's done.  You will know, we will know.  Racehorses - be it in Russia, or America, leave us with an indegestion that nexium won't cure.  Love does that I suppose.  Maybe I'm wrong here. . . maybe not!

later my bro.

mACmAN

[ScottinCrimea]

I don't see Gator dwelling on it so much as reflecting on it and offering himself up as a model of what can go wrong and right with a relationship.  This thread has provided some excellent points for everyone to pay attention to.

[Turboguy]

Sometimes the best way to get over a woman is to talk about it.   I think we are like and respect Gator and I hope his sharing the story here will both let us learn and help him forget. 

Time cures all things like that but not as quickly as a really great woman.   My feelings are that Gator needs to not sit and think about things so much as he needs to resume his search.  Maybe his former gal was the right for him, maybe the right one is one he has not met yet.   Keep your options open Gator and go have some fun.  I can relate to not wanting to spend years in the search.   Whoever is the right one will be a lucky woman and you will know it is right.   Good luck.

[Lily]

Gator,
I apologize in advance for prolonging this thread, but I think there is something very valuable to be learned here by others:
Do not underestimate the competition of from Russian men!

I know it is popular here to generalize that all RM are inept drunks unable to support a family or more to the point, support a real effort to romance their women.  WRONG!  You guys better think again if you think your financial advantage is going keep you safe from RM taking a run at your girl.  From what I hear, RM have all the moves (and more) and are willing to spend their last ruble to gain a lady's fancy.  And let us not forget the fact that there are at least a few RM that are loaded in their own right.  Never assume your pretty woman is not going to still be getting major attention from the locals.
KenC

KenC, if a woman is over 35, there is no local competition for her in the FSU, no matter how great she is.

[Mir]

KenC, if a woman is over 35, there is no local competition for her in the FSU, no matter how great she is.

What does that mean, please elaborate?

[Lily]

Mir,

KenC's point was that men always compete for a good woman in the FSU, so that an AM have to take local male competition into account.

My point was that this statement would rather be not applicable for a woman who is over 35 years old approximately. The RM don't really compete for a woman who is above certain age. Even in case the woman is beautiful, healthy and kind, she is likely not to get male attention. She is out of the dating market in most cases. There may be rare exceptions to this rule, though.

Hope this elaborates.

[MaxxumUSA]

Gator,
I apologize in advance for prolonging this thread, but I think there is something very valuable to be learned here by others:
Do not underestimate the competition of from Russian men!

I know it is popular here to generalize that all RM are inept drunks unable to support a family or more to the point, support a real effort to romance their women.  WRONG!  You guys better think again if you think your financial advantage is going keep you safe from RM taking a run at your girl.  From what I hear, RM have all the moves (and more) and are willing to spend their last ruble to gain a lady's fancy.  And let us not forget the fact that there are at least a few RM that are loaded in their own right.  Never assume your pretty woman is not going to still be getting major attention from the locals.
KenC

Ken...

I agree to an extent.  My Elena is a beautiful woman in any country.  You have seen photos but they don't do her justice because she also has such a wonderful personality and air about her in real life.  Women like this are sought after all over the world by men from all over the world.

I never have, and never will, think that I don't have competition.  Not that I am afraid of it but I certainly am aware of it.

For the record most of the AW women I have dated also are beautiful in this way...  So I am used to the competition.

[ScottinCrimea]

KenC, if a woman is over 35, there is no local competition for her in the FSU, no matter how great she is.

I really can't totally agree with this.  We have one friend who is 41 years old and who would be a great catch for anyone.  She has two RM who are pursuing her pretty heavily. One is a gynecologist and the other a very successful owner of a construction company.  Both shower her with money and gifts.  The gynecologist seems to be a good friend who she will have over on occasion when she needs some "male companionship" but would never consider marrying him.  The construction owner has bought her a car, paid to remodel her apartment, you name it, even though she has been only willing to provide him with companionship and good conversation.  Even though she enjoys the perks of being his friend, the catch with him is that he already has a family. Despite all of this, she still feels something is lacking in these men and is learning English in the hopes of finding a wonderful husband like my wife has (her words, not mine).  I think that there are many women like this in their 40's and beyond who will not settle for being the "other woman" and hope for something better, but there are also many who would jump at the opportunities she has to be taken care of by a RM without all of the hassles of dealing with an AM and long distance relationships.  In short, with women like this, you are competing with the short term mentality of the RM who will provide certain perks now versus the long term Given the situation of most women in the FSU, if you were them what would you choose?