Lily invited me ...

[Daveman]

..I ll tell you,many RWs become very insulted if WM becomes to count the money Usually those RW dont have a real experience and have some illusions about WMs. They hate the *greediness* and become to think he seeks nothing but a cheap houseworker who doesnt need many money. On the womnes forums,you can find many advices like *spend as much of his money as you can*. Even some wives(mostly the young ones) follow this policy. They believe that the more a man invests in his woman,the more he appreciates her. *Lets dont be the cheap housewives*. *The russian women cost much!* And so on....

Also be sure,all her friends and relatives will observe how much money does she get from you and make the comments its not enough ;)Maybe relatives wont,but the girlfriends will.

I certainly appreciate the WM compliments, but god, the above is almost gut wrenchingly nauseating.

Maybe "many" are as you describe, but I can assure you that there is at least one lady in Kharkov, and one in Omsk who both have an appreciation for good financial sense, saving money, and spending wisely... Also taking great pride in helping their man spend LESS everywhere they can.  Hmmmmmm, let me think... which kind of woman would I rather have as a partner? Gee, such a tough decision...

For me, even a hint of that above attitude would result in an immediate NEXT... my lady will be a queen, within reason, but she doesn't need to know that... she simply needs to know I will take care of her and provide her a loving family and stable environment.  If that's not enough, then she doesn't deserve the life I can actually give to her.  Throwing money at any woman is just too absurd for words.

Why waste time with a woman who thinks wise financial management is "greedy" when there are others, just as beautiful in every way, who will play a highly active role in being part of a wise financial team??  Color me insane.. I don't get it.  To each his own.

[Turkey]

Also be sure,all her friends and relatives will observe how much money does she get from you and make the comments its not enough ;)Maybe relatives wont,but the girlfriends will.
About a general topic. Of course,the financial ability of a man matters-I think,noone has any doubts about this. Any woman dreams to find someone who will make her dreams come true and will make her a queen. Many women in all countries marry the men not because of love,but because his very rich-in america also,isnt it But such thing as love exists(shut up,cynics ). The truth is the WM are different from RM in many points. I wont tell about some jerks-it happens everywhere-but a normal WM is much better for the family creation than RM. They are just raised in a way of respect to the family. They love the kids much more. They respect the women much more and they dont afraid to help her at home Plus many women with the kids almost dont have a chance in FSU-they have many abroad. The americans much more tolerant to her kids. To sum it up,we can see,there is not just the money-but the money are necessary in some amount 

Thanks for the post.  It was interesting.  Perhaps we should introduce AW to RM? 

[Turkey]

No,HT. You have to get an answer ONLY from your woman. She can find a way to explain,for certain. I ll tell you,many RWs become very insulted if WM becomes to count the money Usually those RW dont have a real experience and have some illusions about WMs. They hate the *greediness* and become to think he seeks nothing but a cheap houseworker who doesnt need many money. On the womnes forums,you can find many advices like *spend as much of his money as you can*. Even some wives(mostly the young ones) follow this policy. They believe that the more a man invests in his woman,the more he appreciates her. *Lets dont be the cheap housewives*. *The russian women cost much!* And so on....I do not like the grredu men also-but I learned to realize the difference between the greediness and smart way of spending money....not immediately though. It took some time. In FSU,many people dont make the savings cos its not safe-they spend the money immediately. As I know,this topic was discussed many times here.

I know from my perspective a lot of this seems pretty short sited.  But, it seems to me that there is an underlying presumption that seems to produce the thinking in your post (your thoughts of how RW think).  That is the absence of the notion that the relationship is a partnership.  If the RW thinks that she should spend 'his' money, it seems to me that excludes the notion that it is 'their' money.  If she spends all 'their' money now, then where will 'their' retirement money come from?  Or is the presumption that the relationship won't last? 

Regardless, this is fascinating reading.  It certainly adds clarity to the profiles one reads. 

[Turkey]

I certainly appreciate the WM compliments, but god, the above is almost gut wrenchingly nauseating.

Maybe "many" are as you describe, but I can assure you that there is at least one lady in Kharkov, and one in Omsk who both have an appreciation for good financial sense, saving money, and spending wisely... Also taking great pride in helping their man spend LESS everywhere they can.  Hmmmmmm, let me think... which kind of woman would I rather have as a partner? Gee, such a tough decision...

For me, even a hint of that above attitude would result in an immediate NEXT... my lady will be a queen, within reason, but she doesn't need to know that... she simply needs to know I will take care of her and provide her a loving family and stable environment.  If that's not enough, then she doesn't deserve the life I can actually give to her.  Throwing money at any woman is just too absurd for words.

Why waste time with a woman who thinks wise financial management is "greedy" when there are others, just as beautiful in every way, who will play a highly active role in being part of a wise financial team??  Color me insane.. I don't get it.  To each his own.

This reminds me of a conversation I had with my step brother a few years ago. He was telling me about one of my stepmothers friends and described her as a j.a.p.  I had never heard of this before and thought it was pretty funny:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=J.A.P.

"wise financial team?? "  I think that's the key

[macman]

Why waste time with a woman who thinks wise financial management is "greedy" when there are others, just as beautiful in every way, who will play a highly active role in being part of a wise financial team??  Color me insane.. I don't get it.  To each his own.

Amen to this. . .  If I want a woman that has no concern for fincances and the future thereof - It certainly won't be one that considers me greedy for counting or budgeting.

YO TURK,

JAPS are thick in my kneck of the woods.  The only thing higher than their budgets are their noses.

later.
mm

[groovlstk]

Amen to this. . .  If I want a woman that has no concern for fincances and the future thereof - It certainly won't be one that considers me greedy for counting or budgeting.

You're setting yourself up for failure, then. If you think you can explain the concept of budgeting and finance to your average RW in a few hours or through email, you're mistaken.

Most Russian and Ukrainian people live paycheck-to-paycheck, with little or no savings. There are reasons for this that have been discussed at length elsewhere on the site, so I won't go into it here. Anyway, the concept of retirement plans, federal and state taxes, and the sheer number of montly bills Westerners must budget for are totally foreign to her.

If you find a good woman and want to get serious with her, unless you're exceedingly well-off financially, you'd better make it your business - hell, make it your mission - to explain how you divvy your income up each month for paying bills, make sure she understands that a large % of your salary goes directly to taxes, etc. Be ready for her initial reaction that you "count money" and thus are greedy.

A lot of guys who get hooked up with the wrong women will ignore the voice of reason inside their heads and rationalize her indifference or questionable behavior as "cultural differences;" however, this is one of those rare instances when you need to cut her a lot of slack. And by "slack" I don't mean allowing her to spend your money irresponsibly - simply make it your job to educate her; if she really cares about you she'll understand your planning is in her best interest and, more importantly to her, in the best interests of your family.

[macman]

A lot of guys who get hooked up with the wrong women will ignore the voice of reason inside their heads and rationalize her indifference or questionable behavior as "cultural differences;" however, this is one of those rare instances when you need to cut her a lot of slack. And by "slack" I don't mean allowing her to spend your money irresponsibly - simply make it your job to educate her; if she really cares about you she'll understand your planning is in her best interest and, more importantly to her, in the best interests of your family.

Great advice and I'll take it to heart.  And this will be a point of due diligence for any of us who are making the effort to marry and one in which it would be wise to "PAY ATTENTION" and not be hasty to marry and/or write issues off as cultural.

Thanks man,

mm

[Sohkay]

If you are going to have a successful marriage relationship with a woman, you MUST, absolutely MUST learn how to communicate about money or it will be a perpetual source of argument and frustration, possibly contributing to the demise of the relationship. My fiancee' has learned much about planning and budgeting in the past 2.5 years. She seeks ways to save us money. She saves us money. She and I are also on the same page...we believe in value for the dollar, and we both detest cheapness...and bad design too!

Again, just do things in small, success-oriented steps, and over a period of time, together you will learn to be successful and control  money together, without letting your money control you.

[SANDRO43]

One of the things I REALLY like about talking with women with whom I have an interest with good, but limited English, is that conversation becomes very basic, meaningful, and honest.  This is not just by chance, but because there exists a more conscious focus on what is being communicated rather than style, slang, metaphors, and social reference.

Or, much more probably, because with limited language skills one CANNOT do otherwise .

[ScottinCrimea]

Like it or not, there are cultural differences on how money is viewed.  In the FSU, things have not always been stable and the future was a very changeable concept.  They have needed to think short term, not long term to survive.  Money saved now could easily be lost in the future for many reasons.  In addition, because many do live paycheck to paycheck, they have a list of necessities that they have put off getting because of lack of money, so when a time comes when they have a little extra, they will spend more to try to catch up.  It will appear that they are not frugal with their money at these times, but this couldn't be farther from the truth.  They are as a rule very cost conscious and make the most of their limited funds, knowing when to spend money on quality and when it is better to not to.

I think you might find that in the beginning, as more money is available because of you, she will spend more in the short term, until she understands that this is not a one time influx of money but that a regular income will be a consistent thing and she can plan on a stable future.

Another thing that comes to mind as HiTech discusses his airplane is that each partner will have some expenses that may seem frivolous on the outside but provide a happiness beyond the price tag.  Just as she should not object to the money spent on this, you should also understand that she will have something that is important to her that you may or may not understand.  She needs to have the freedom to indulge in a few "frivolous" things same as you without having to justify the expense.  Otherwise you will appear selfish and greedy.  This doesn't mean that she has carte blanch to spend on anything ane everything.  She needs to be aware of the concept of budgeting and be allowed to choose an extravagance on occasion as long as it fits in the budget.

I know I'm not a RW, but these are what I have observed.

[HiTech]

Another thing that comes to mind as HiTech discusses his airplane is that each partner will have some expenses that may seem frivolous on the outside but provide a happiness beyond the price tag.  Just as she should not object to the money spent on this, you should also understand that she will have something that is important to her that you may or may not understand.  She needs to have the freedom to indulge in a few "frivolous" things same as you without having to justify the expense.  Otherwise you will appear selfish and greedy.  This doesn't mean that she has carte blanch to spend on anything ane everything.  She needs to be aware of the concept of budgeting and be allowed to choose an extravagance on occasion as long as it fits in the budget.

I agree

[Daveman]

Well I think there's a bit of apple and orange comparison going on here.

I don't believe that there is NOT a need to educate a loving woman about financial matters... and take the time to explain and explain again if necessary with a woman who wants and thrives on a partnership...

When I read this:
On the womnes forums,you can find many advices like *spend as much of his money as you can*. Even some wives(mostly the young ones) follow this policy. They believe that the more a man invests in his woman,the more he appreciates her. *Lets dont be the cheap housewives*. *The russian women cost much!*

I simply do not get an impression of a woman who loves her man, who wants a happy family life together, who will be a team player.. I get the message RUN Forest RUN.  These women need to be avoided completely no matter how beautiful they may be.  It's part of the process of picking the right partner.

Educating a good and loving, team playing woman begins with CHOOSING a good and loving team playing woman.  Of course there is a possibility of misunderstandings over money matters and those are very important to resolve.. but the above quote? Come on.. that's not a cultural difference, that's gold digging at its finest.

[Nat]

HiTech, I can understand why you wrote such a letter. It’s really important to discuss this topic from the very beginning. But you see, in my opinion it’s a little bit too... well... direct. You start with the phrase about “your expectations”. And then say that you have 20 year old TV and don’t want to upgrade things which are working, but you spend a lot of money on your airplane, because it’s your hobby. If there was no phrase about expectations, it’ll be quite ok, very logical and would show you from the best side. But in my opinion with this phrase it sounds like this: “I’ll spend money only on the things with I like, but don’t even think I’ll spend something on some modern things you can possibly see in the house of our friends”.

[Gator]

Lilly,
You are remarkable (in a good way)!  Few of the RW I met have your understanding.

HiTech,
Maybe you should start talking with Lilly.

[Sohkay]

Gator,

Maybe you should ask Lilly for her number.

At the very least, maybe she knows someone that might be good for you.

Crazier things have happened.

[Turkey]

sorry wrong post

[Daveman]

Sohkay, you should PM Nat... then after the dust settles, the multi board shuffle should be quite intriguing! 

[Zhena]

I know from my perspective a lot of this seems pretty short sited.  But, it seems to me that there is an underlying presumption that seems to produce the thinking in your post (your thoughts of how RW think).  That is the absence of the notion that the relationship is a partnership.  If the RW thinks that she should spend 'his' money, it seems to me that excludes the notion that it is 'their' money.  If she spends all 'their' money now, then where will 'their' retirement money come from?  Or is the presumption that the relationship won't last? 

Regardless, this is fascinating reading.  It certainly adds clarity to the profiles one reads. 

I am sorry to ruin your illusions guys,but I know how most of RW think,I just know that-and believe me please. Sometimes I am shocked myself,but what can I change? And those women finding the men also-the smartest will never show you that she has a financial interest first. Women know how to manipulate...Of course,I didnt deny that there are the good girls too happen. But even a good girl the first time may not understand your attitude to the money.

[Zhena]

Well I think there's a bit of apple and orange comparison going on here.

I don't believe that there is NOT a need to educate a loving woman about financial matters... and take the time to explain and explain again if necessary with a woman who wants and thrives on a partnership...

When I read this:
On the womnes forums,you can find many advices like *spend as much of his money as you can*. Even some wives(mostly the young ones) follow this policy. They believe that the more a man invests in his woman,the more he appreciates her. *Lets dont be the cheap housewives*. *The russian women cost much!*

I simply do not get an impression of a woman who loves her man, who wants a happy family life together, who will be a team player.. I get the message RUN Forest RUN.  These women need to be avoided completely no matter how beautiful they may be.  It's part of the process of picking the right partner.

Educating a good and loving, team playing woman begins with CHOOSING a good and loving team playing woman.  Of course there is a possibility of misunderstandings over money matters and those are very important to resolve.. but the above quote? Come on.. that's not a cultural difference, that's gold digging at its finest.

First I even didnt want to reply cos didnt see a sense-you wanna see only what you wanna see. You somewhat idealist in a good sense...Now tell me how will you understand that your girl loves you and not the financial security she will get? Cos she doesnt ask for the money? That doesnt tell much,she may know the rule of a game. I think that many men would get very angry if they could read russian and russian women forums. Dont think that this is my point of view. You just have to be realistic. No need to answer me on this ok.

[Zhena]

From my own experiance: I didnt have an inborn knowledge about how to budget. I was spendidng my little money easily cos actually there was nothing to save. I needed all that little things which eat all your money and you wont notice. And I am very generous by a character
When I met my future husband,I noticed his way of spending was much more accurate that mine. Also he preferred to spend for certain things he considered to be important-and much less on things he thought are unnecessary. Our point of view on importance was different in some ways,in other I would agree. After a couple visits,I still had misunderstanding and I decided to let him to know all my fears. I wrote a letter where I explained what I dont understand and what upsets me. He wrote me a very long and clear responce which made me feel uncomfortable about my suspicions-I realized that this man is a diamond and outstanding person. All my bad thoughts were solved,my husband wrote me very good and genuine letter where explained everything exellent.
Still,after my coming to america,I didnt know how much I can spend and what are the main subject of expenses-I didnt know about the taxes,mortgages,and other sort of bills. All that appeared complicated to me. But now I have an imagination of all this and dont make an irresponsible spendings Of course if I want something bad,I ll get it. But I not a capricious child anymore.

[Daveman]

Now tell me how will you understand that your girl loves you and not the financial security she will get? Cos she doesnt ask for the money?

Actually no, it's because she has no idea what I am actually worth financially. Not yet anyway. I don't live flashy, I don't travel flashy.  I saw many other western guys flashing their "wealth" in the FSU, but I do exactly the opposite in every way.  I gave her only reasonable gifts that I would normally give to any woman whom I am dating, nothing extravagant, no fancy wining and dining.  Of course I spent money on her, on us, taking care of all expenses for us while I was there. Flowers, fun stuff to do, etc.. we did a ton of stuff together, but I didn't throw money at her in any way.

She should have gotten the impression "I will take care of things" and nothing really more than that.

The next trip, I'll probably buy her a nice pair of earrings or some sweet jewelry purchase, but still nothing over the top.. it'll be exactly along the lines of how I would progress in a relationship with an American woman. Something pretty. something nice, but exactly matching the stage of the relationship we are currently in.  I don't see a problem with that.  If there IS one, I'd like to hear it and why.

I could give example after example of ways the two ladies I mentioned just naturally handled money wisely and actively 'protected' me from spending extra money.  You really think that might be 'playing the game'?  I guess it's possible, but when weighing in all the different aspects of behavior, not simply taking any one something out of context, the overall picture seems clear - normal caring women who weren't trying to slip fingers into the wallet, but just enjoying being with *me*.

Both had degrees in economics so maybe that had something to do with their more laid back spending habits but I doubt it. I think it had more to do with having different priorities than the ladies posting on that forum.

That doesnt tell much,she may know the rule of a game. I think that many men would get very angry if they could read russian and russian women forums. Dont think that this is my point of view. You just have to be realistic. No need to answer me on this ok.

Never said it was your point of view.  I don't know you personally and have no idea what your real thoughts on the matter are. I haven't seen you post much here at all actually.  I said the quotes indicated to me that those types of women should be avoided.  All women need/desire/whatever security.  But you would have to admit that "spend as much of his money as you can" is considerable different from security.  I know every Russian woman isn't like that. Maybe all the ones who post most vocally on forums are.  People have different dreams of happiness.

Dave

[wxman]

Zhena,

Do you think that attitudes towards saving and budgeting may be changing in Russia and other FSU countries? Seems now that people are earning more money there and people are buying cars with bank loans, using credit cards and even buying property with mortages.

[Lily]

Zhena,

Do you think that attitudes towards saving and budgeting may be changing in Russia and other FSU countries? Seems now that people are earning more money there and people are buying cars with bank loans, using credit cards and even buying property with mortages.

That's right that there are some new opportunities available now like you mentioned. However, the attitude towards budgeting is more like an individual thing developed since the person's early years rather than adopted from changing environments.

I know some people in Russia who prefer to live from paycheck to paycheck, but I also know those who believe that the best thing they can do with their disposable income is to make bank deposits, deposits and even more deposits. Not a wise approach, especially given the long history of unfair cash exchanges and banking defaults in the country.

[Gator]

Lilly,

Real estate is usually a better place for parking money than a bank. However, the extrordinary increase in prices over the past few years seems like a bubble. Then again, a mortgage system would create even more demand for housing.

How can Russian invest in stocks of Russian companies?  Stocks of foreign companies?  Stocks of well managed growth companies is over the long term one of the best investments.

[Lily]

Lilly,

Real estate is usually a better place for parking money than a bank. However, the extrordinary increase in prices over the past few years seems like a bubble. Then again, a mortgage system would create even more demand for housing.

How can Russian invest in stocks of Russian companies?  Stocks of foreign companies?  Stocks of well managed growth companies is over the long term one of the best investments.

You are absolutely right about the real estate Gator.

Your other question is a complicated subject indeed. Yes there are some options and I'd be definitely curious to learn on them some more. As far as I could understand from my general info about this market, the stock investments make sense only if one is able to invest some really large amount in stock and can go for a longer term investments.

Therefore, mostly those Russians who can mobilize very considerable amounts of cash apparently could be successful in stock investments.