Acceptable Behaviour and Trip Reports

[wendaaaal]

 For most of us, it seems, Pike's style is pretty disgusting. However, it seems the posts were widely read. Most readers (and the posts have been widely read) will be able to figure out that his style isn't typical, and ultimately won't lead to the type of successful relationships  most of us are looking for. 
 However, I say let him post, for a couple of reasons. His type of behavior does go on there, so we have to take the bad and the ugly along with the good.
 I think adding the ability to post trip reports "sans responses" is a great feature. Far too many guys in the past have started informative reports, then given up because they were harassed by stupid attacks over their style of visit, comments about their girlfriend's looks, or had the report hijacked over something mostly unrelated to their trip. I think we'll eventually see more guys post who wouldn't in the past. If we get a few oddball reports like Pike's, then it's a small price to pay for this feature. Just my two kopecks worth, Wendell

[I/O]

Far too many guys in the past have started informative reports, then given up because they were harassed by stupid attacks over their style of visit, comments about their girlfriend's looks,

Some examples of these informative reports which went south?

I/O

[Admin]

Some examples of these informative reports which went south?

I/O

Wendell is correct. There were some guys who started to post TR's and then wrote me and asked me to pull them, or told me they would not write them - because we have some members who stand in judgment and pick apart a TR - ostensibly for the benefit of others and so that fallacious information is not left intact - but it often comes across more as a mechanism to ridicule others. The withdrawal, or refusal, to post a TR which would have been valuable has happened on a number of occasions.

The reason I established the "TR sans response" forum is to that guys could feel free to post their reports - in their entirety - and without fear or concern of ridicule. This was done partly in consideration of the fact that some people do not accept criticism well - or they simply fear it, and yet they have a worthwhile story to tell.

As with most freedoms, there are potential abuses. I have read some of Pike's report, and he is careful to NOT post such salacious material as to be raunchy. He is right on the edge - but he is *on* the edge. Obviously, this is a judgment call - and my judgment on the point may be different than someone else's. I do not think it is the salacious material being posted by Pike which is creating this controversy - it is the fact that he is quite forthcoming about the numbers of women he has been intimate with. If I am correct, then the objection raised is more about the author of the posts and his motives - rather than the individual posts themselves.

This becomes a much tougher issue to manage.

Comments?

- Dan

[Mir]

You can criticize Pike for the style and/or content of his posts but I can't see how you can differentiate him from other WMVM travellers, especially the ones who have made several trips to FSU?(I gather some have been there more then 90 times!).

[Sohkay]

I disagree with any attempts to "sanitize" the board. And regarding this concern for what others might think about the board membership if such posts are allowed, sounds to me like the clucking of excited chickens. If someone comes to the board, and reads Albert's "squirting" post, and then passes judgement on this board without reading the other many good, helpful, debated subjects, then I really don't give a rat's popa what they think of me.

And sometimes, our occasionally spicy board can be so very entertaining. For instance, when I followed the above link to Albert's post and then scrolled down the page a little, I came across this gem.

Every woman is a "squirter" with the proper stimulation.  If your g/f isn't "squirting", then you are not doing something right.  It's only a matter of proper stimulation to get her in the proper frame of mind.  She will squirt if you do your job.

I've never had a woman who didn't squirt after proper stimuli, some of you guys must be terrible lovers.

So you see, not only does jb have an extensive working knowledge of geology, geophysics and petrophysics and is successfully married to a lovely Russian woman...there is even MORE. Here at RWD, we have our own resident squirtologist ("der squirtmeister" for our European readership"). And to think that gems likes this could be lost in the sanitizing process, why, why...it's an outrage!

Don't sanitize the board.

[jb]

Dan,

Run the board as YOU see fit.  The Pikes and Alberts will always be with us, that's the nature of the internet.  Relegating him off in his little corner where he can play by himself is probably the best way to handle him.  I'm sure he understands he would be badly mauled if he attempted to debate in the open topic sections.

Sohkay, the post you quoted was a tongue-in-cheek put down for Albert, I'm sorry you read it as serious.

[BC]

So you see, not only does jb have an extensive working knowledge of geology, geophysics and petrophysics and is successfully married to a lovely Russian woman...there is even MORE. Here at RWD, we have our own resident squirtologist ("der squirtmeister" for our European readership"). And to think that gems likes this could be lost in the sanitizing process, why, why...it's an outrage!

 

Sohkay, you made my day and maybe whole week with this one!

My belly aches now..

[Sohkay]

BC,
Glad you enjoyed it.

jb,
You missed it.

[catzenmouse]

Maybe there should be a third option for the poll. Something like:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 No I don't think the behavior in  this TR is appropriate but leave it as it does show a good description of what most members believe a "sex tourist" is.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As far as having a newbie read this and decide that RWD, as a whole, condones this behavior. Well, that person has obviously not read much here and if they are that quick to judge and too impatient to read a bit more to understand what we are here, then they are probably a train wreck anyway. No loss to this community.

Also, we have the ability, shown by this thread, to challenge the thinking and methods of Pike and those like him.

Ken

[Kuna]

Yep....  nothing wrong with Pike's TR...

Strange day for me
« Reply #16 on: 01 June 2007, 01:00:32 »  

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Strange day for me.  First day during my stay that I have not had female company . . . at least yet.  Today was last day of the school year and it is a fairly big event in these FSU countries.  It has cut me off from the ladies.  Even from Sweet Sugar 10 who sent me so many SMS and missed phone calls in days earlier.  

I called Sweet Sugar yesterday afternoon after OL 13 had left.  Oh sorry, but she had much work to do that evening preparing for her dau school activities the next day.  She would call me later.  I thought she meant later last night . . . but nothing.  And nothing today.  I heard from my business associates that today many of the parents will be at school for socializing with the teachers today and this evening, etc., so probably can rule out hearing from Sweet Sugar or anyone else this evening.

Had an interesting experience a couple of hours ago around 3 PM here.  My apt area is very quiet with lookout over courtyard.  But at this time I hear a bunch of teenagers whooping it up, but fairly mildly.  I went down to take my trash out and plan to go get two, 6 liter bottles of water at nearby mini-market.

There were about 15 teenagers around the courtyard and entrance steps to my apt.  So I just spoke out in English: “Is this your last day of school?”  Most of them perked up and started crowding around me speaking in fragments of Russian and some English.  They said: yes, last day.  Then I started asking their names and went around with that.  Then they yelled out questions to me in English about my name, my age, what I was doing there, where I was from, etc.  They were mostly 16 years old and had one more year of school left.

One had a camera and wanted pics of me.  So I motioned for the others to come around with me, which most of them did.  Much giggling from girls, talking in Russian and English with me, etc.  Then I remembered my Camcorder, so told them to wait while I went back upstairs to get it.  They said:  yes, yes, we will wait.

I fired up the CC and had each of them step forward and state their name.  A couple of the girls were really quite beautiful and flirtatious . . . not necessarily to me, just in general they wanted to strut their stuff, toss their hair, blink their eyes, smile big time, etc.  One girl said she was from Chechnia and another was from Armenia.  But they all seemed to fit in with no problems.  Two of the boys were already quite sick from drinking vodka and were sitting down on the steps with their heads down between their legs.  A couple of the girls were a little woosy also, but most seemed quite sober and having a good time.

Two couples were doing lip locks and others had to pry them apart for their time on the camera.  In two instances I saw guys standing behind girls and reaching around pinching nipples and the girls did nothing to stop them.  One other guy put his hand up a girl’s dress and she likewise did nothing to stop him.

After the filming stopped, I set CC for replay and 3 of them crowded around me to look.  One of the beautiful gals put one of her C cups right on my arm and pressed in as close as she could get.  One of the guys started pinching the nipple on her other breast and she just casually pushed his hand away.  Quite different from my school days when there would be loud outbursts of protest, very hard slaps on arms or face, threats to report to parents or teachers, etc.  But then I only saw that happen a couple of times during 12th grade and I was not involved at all.

He's +50 yrs old right???

Those who say "go for it" might enjoy reading his fantasies but it's well below the standards that I find acceptable...

Yeah yeah... 16 years old girls might be of legal age (I'm not sure in Russia) but he's over 50 isn't he?

Still...  he got to post this and other stuff without any comment from others.  

Look... I don't even have a big problem with sex tourists.  If a loser wants to pay thousands for a trip to FSU so he can bang the hottest hooker on earth I say "go for it"... BUT if someone uses marriage or dating sites or travels under the pretence of wanting a wife and acts like Pike does then its wrong!

Pike wasn't honest with the women otherwise he wouldn't have been switching his phone off when with one woman in case another called or messaged him.  After meeting so many cool, funky, free loving ladies that couldn't resist him would make you think he also got some hot and nasty threesomes too huh???

Naah.. this is the guy bitching about some woman that wasn't impressed when he showed her photos of his big flash house and when he told her about giving his kids money etc...

He was a sex tourist... anyone that thinks otherwise is naive!

[William3rd]

Perhaps he would like to post his video on these girls-just to prove he isnt closeted up somewhere with an inflatable Olga-doll and writing down his dreams.

Oh yeah - those 16 year olds just love pressing up against elderly americans.

[Gator]

Mir,

I can't see how you can differentiate him from other WMVM travellers, especially the ones who have made several trips to FSU?

Numbers of trips is not a determinant.  I have taken perhaps 20 trips to Russia and Ukraine, frequently for a month or more.  Twice I met more than one woman.  Even then, I did not have concurrent intimate relationships.  

There are probably others from RWD who have done the same type of trip as Pike because it can be done.  However, few even wrote something, and they wrote so little or it was so disguised that one could only infer the “Pike shuffle”.  

Pike’s objective to bed many women was blatant, and his style of reporting was boastful.  

Pike has been before to Russia/Ukraine (perhaps several times) and has met many women, yet he could not find one woman good enough to develop a relationship for a WOVO return trip.  Why?  He does not want an emotional connection; he wants sex.  And that is what separates him from the vast majority of us.

[Kuna]

William...

We know he watched that video over and over and over...  right up until he ran out of viagra!

Pike was a sex tourist and those amongst us that enjoyed the "titilation" should remember he was an elderly american getting his jollies from fantasies like I posted above...

Make you feel good about your peers and their conduct when abroad???  

Do you kinda understand why some women have had such a crap time with some of them?

Do you think men posting crap like this should be challenged?

[Gator]

Dan,

There is merit in having a TR sans response section, but sans response only while reporting the trip.  All such reports should be open for responses at their conclusion.  

Thus, if you do decide to keep Pike’s report in an isolation bubble, I think you should attach this thread to it.

Censorship is a complex issue.  By the way, I looked up “sans response” in the Thesaurus and found the synonym “censorship”.

[Wayne B]

Perhaps he would like to post his video on these girls-just to prove he isnt closeted up somewhere with an inflatable Olga-doll and writing down his dreams.

Oh yeah - those 16 year olds just love pressing up against elderly americans.

                                                                                                             William, you took the words out of my mouth

[William3rd]

Actually- I feel his posts have no place where civilized people gather.

When the sex tourist first started posting this crap, he was being challenged and began to protest and tried to justify his actions. Then he let it slip as to what his intentions were. Of course, he CLAIMS to be straight with the women. We have his WORD for it.

Faced with challenges and unable to face up to the challenges, he went whining and slithering off and ended up on a sans response page where he still talks the SOS. I read just enough to be sure that he was continuing the same course and then stopped reading.

In this world, there are men and then there are the Pikes of the world-something less than a man- locked forever in a state of juvenile behavior. Past his prime and unable to face reality.

To my mind, posting him without response is to accept him and condone his behavior, if it is real behavior.

He may well be making it all up. I would like to hear what the psychiatrists among us think. Perhaps a diagnosis might be possible from the posts.

[BC]

Actually- I feel his posts have no place where civilized people gather.

There are enough titillating visuals in threads provided by another member on this board.  Those that believe Pikes saucy tales can somehow corrupt newbies should also take another look at the picture threads that seem to be tolerated so well as a TR.  After all they say a picture says a thousand words and I really don't see much difference as to what is being implied. 

In terms of relevance, Pike's TR certainly wins.

I do believe that both formats cheapen RWD and detract from  but I would be against any determination that proposes a double standard.

[batman]

I agree with Kuna, William3rd etc. I read the part of the trip report about the young kids and I just can't beleive this is on a dating/marriage website forum.

A small percentage of guys here seem to get there jollies out of these types of stories. Why don't you order some Russian Playboy/Penthouse instead? (Don't forget to tell your UW/RW about them)

I haven't learnt anything useful from reading several pages of Pike's trip report.

I think the owners should re-evaluate the purpose of this forum.

To give dirty old men their jollies? or what?

[ScottinCrimea]

I have to agree with Gator.  To not allow other members to respond to his posts is also censorship.  If he doesn't like the comments made, he can exercise the same right we have, which is to press the ignore button and carry merrily on with his BS.  At least he has the choice whether to respond or not, something that has been denied the rest of us.

[batman]

Pike has been before to Russia/Ukraine (perhaps several times) and has met many women, yet he could not find one woman good enough to develop a relationship for a WOVO return trip.  Why?  He does not want an emotional connection; he wants sex.  And that is what separates him from the vast majority of us.

And That's why his sex reports don't belong on any decent forum 

[BillyB]

To not allow other members to respond to his posts is also censorship. 

Actually we're responding to Pike's posts and thread in this and other threads so it's not quite censorship as our posts are allowed to stand.

I saw what happened when Pike tried to write his report. Instead of people chipping in their two cents on how they felt, they kept pouring it on as if they were beating a dead horse. I've seen this happen other times when a guy goes WMVM, fails, and gets endlessly criticized by WOVO guys or a guy goes WOVO and the same from WMVM guys. Trip reports shouldn't be a place to hash out debates. I understand Dan's position. I've seen other forums give posters an option to not have anybody respond in their trip report because of complaints.

batman, even with Pike's sex report, nobody's going to get the impression this is an indecent forum. Have you ever criticized a church when they speak of evil the devil could do? It doesn't mean they promote it, but let you understand what it is and warn against it.  After the criticisms Pike is getting, less people want to be just like him. That's a good thing.

The only reason I haven't criticised Pike as much as the others is because I believe he is targeting women that are just like him and not hurting sincere women. You're not going to convince me women that open their legs for strangers within hours are sincere women.

[Muj]

Pike's reports may actually open the eyes to newbies.  The newbies are more aware of the type of women empowering Pike in his behaviour and they may identify a "Pike woman" more easily.  Also an FSU woman reading Pike's report may be a little more savvy and may choose to avoid a Pike type of guy.  No crime here if Pike is honest to the women and promises nothing more than sex, Pike and the women are consenting adults.  However, protecting Pike from comments seems to betray the purpose of the forum by preventing more experienced members from providing insight.  This is not RWR (report).  Does Pike write of his sexual exploits on some US board?  If not, why not?

[Leslie]

I want to make a couple of points here.

1.  Allowing a guy to post a trip report without "cat calls" from the gallery is just plain good manners.
 
2.  This is not the first thread that has been opened as a vehicle to criticise Pike's behaviour.  The simple fact that these threads remain undeleted demonstrates Dan's open approach.

3.  A lot of guys are insulting the intelligence and judgement of the members of this board. This community is quite capable of forming it's own judgements on the behaviour of others.  It does not need to be "told" how to think.  The content of this board does not need to be censored.  We are a community of adults - NOT CHILDREN.

4.  The coterie of "moralists" are entitled to their views but they do not have the right to silence those with more liberal attitudes. 

5.  In terms of damage done to the public perception of our community the "sex tourists" pale into insignificance compared to the train wrecks caused by the "one week wonders".  The sex tourists play mostly with "prostitutka's and both sides get what they want   The pathetic lonely guys who hold on to the first woman who will have them wreck lives...  Do we ban guys like this from posting their stories?  OF COURSE NOT!

Some members of this community need to grow a skin.  The whole world does not have to be just like you...

[William3rd]

And they dont have to be like you either, sport. Wanna intro your sister in law or daughter to ol' Pike? Liberal minds want to know. . .

[Kuna]

Let's be honest... there's a stigma associated with men who go to Russia to seek marriage and a healthy family BECAUSE of people like Pike.

What I'm more surprised at is the feable excuses and defenses offered by 30% of the men (so far) that have responded to the poll.

If those sort of proportions translate to real life I'm certain that My Girl and I won't be associated with other International couples.  I just don't like men that support the exploitation of women.