Acceptable Behaviour and Trip Reports

[ScottinCrimea]

Yes, Batman, it is very different.

In the FSU nightclubs/disco's are little more than a cathouse with a jukebox or a DJ.  After the usual hour when decent folks are in bed resting up for work the next day, you can stumble into a disco and find many lovely ladies dancing together as they display their wares to the prospective clients for the night.

Some of the most beautiful hookers I've ever seen work in Moscow.  Vertually every hotel has a stable of these lovely ladies, spend a night in a mid-priced hotel and you are sure to have a knock on your door about bedtime.  That's life in the FSU.

But I wouldn't marry one.

jb, I don't know where you hang out or who you choose to hang out with, but this is the biggest pile of BS I've heard in a long time.  You're saying that because my daughter goes to the discos, all she is looking for is someone she can hop into bed with for a quick 30 griven? I'd love to turn my wife and her her loose on you! You would definitely get an attitude adjustment in no uncertain terms!

Where I go, the vast majority of women are NOT hookers.  Sure you are going to see a few, but they typically hang out at the bar where they can be approached, not so much on the dance floor.  The FSUW friends I have go to the nightclubs to spend time with their friends and don't really care if they meet or even dance with a man all night.  They don't have large homes to get together in so it's where they hang out to socialize.

Maybe I give off different vibes than you, but I have never had one of those "knocks at the door" at bedtime anywhere I've stayed.  Maybe it's just that this little backwater of Crimea I live in just isn't up to Western standards yet.

[catzenmouse]

My first trip to Omsk (which can be considered a backwater in Russia I guess) I stayed in a hotel and was phoned every night between 10 and 12 with a "You want girl for sex" call and had one come up and knock on the door.

I don't go to disco's so I cannot comment on that part.

Ken

[jb]

Scott,

I wasn't trying to offend you,  I've not spent time in Crimea, but I have spent a lot of time in Moscow, and a few other cities.   I assure you what I wrote is factual of the big cities.  Discos after midnight are full of girls looking to make an easy dollar.  Buyer beware.

[ScottinCrimea]

In the FSU nightclubs/disco's are little more than a cathouse with a jukebox or a DJ.  After the usual hour when decent folks are in bed resting up for work the next day, you can stumble into a disco and find many lovely ladies dancing together as they display their wares to the prospective clients for the night.

jb, this is the statement that offended me.  Crimea is a part of the FSU.  Maybe in the future, better to limit your comments to specific clubs and cities that you have personal experience with.

[SANDRO43]

... and had one come up and knock on the door.

But, knowledgeable that she was, she left on hearing that strange bleating sound issuing from behind your door  ?

[I/O]

As for that "Knock on the Door" or "Phone call" I can confirm the exact same experience from Bucharest to Vladivostock and Odessa to Riga.....and just about every mid to larger sized city in between. It is simply standard issue when one checks into a hotel as a single guy almost anywhere in the FSU.  BTW in my experience, they don't wait until bed time. Mostly I have received a call within the first 15 to 20 minutes of checking into my room. Or the bloody pimps trying to nail you in the foyar.

Can't comment on discos as I don't freaquent them much these days.  Something to do with being a crusty old bastard.

I/O

[catzenmouse]

But, knowledgeable that she was, she left on hearing that strange bleating sound issuing from behind your door  ?

SHHHHH! Sandro you weren't supposed to talk about my wool fetish!

[acrzybear]

SHHHHH! Sandro you weren't supposed to talk about my wool fetish!

With Catzenmouse around there's no such thing as virgin wool

[catzenmouse]

Bear,

 I owe you for that one.... 

 Dueling Pitchers at 20 paces at Beer O'clock!

Ken

[BillyB]

 In “sans report” mode, questions go unanswered.  Without answers and without elaboration, one can assume "grey" is "black".  And a person who would post such a story, knowing that a majority would disapprove it, and then not having the courage to explain much less defend his actions…..well, it says it all.
 

Gator, the superior man is fair even to people he think is beneath himself. To be fair to Pike, he did explain his actions and defended them in his original trip report. After a WMVM vs. WOVO war and heavy criticism of what he's doing, he offered to end his trip report and then he actually did end it and offered to anybody to get it in PM's. The trip report with poster's responses and his answers to their questions still exist if anybody wants to re-read it.

It was wrong to have a WMVM debate in a trip report. It was wrong for Pike to receive more than two cents of heavy criticism in a trip report. Dan regularly tells people to take it to the NHB area when two people don't like each other. Should we make a special exception for guys like Pike where we could go ballistic on him anytime, everytime, and anywhere at this forum? The sans trip report forum is not a product of Pike but of the guys who want to break the rules of conduct.

[Daveman]

My first trip to Omsk (which can be considered a backwater in Russia I guess) I stayed in a hotel and was phoned every night between 10 and 12 with a "You want girl for sex" call and had one come up and knock on the door.

I don't go to disco's so I cannot comment on that part.

Ken

That's it... no more local apartments for me! Hotels "all the way" from now on... 

Same here with the discos. I think I went to one once in the early 80's...

As far as Pike's TR... I couldn't be more apathetic about it.  It is a good example of one aspect, perhaps a good example for some of the ladies to come through here too.

However, I think the "reflection on us" card is a bit overplayed.  Pike is not a reflection of my character in any way, T/R thread or not, or whether I 'challenge' his thread or not.

I don't see any adult woman who is willing to go back to his apartment and spread her legs as being "exploited". I just don't buy it.  There was some talk about a teenager.. which could be exploitation but I haven't read any more of the thread because it wasn't my cup of tea. 

If he's doing something illegal, then can his threads and his ass from the board. If not, then it simply isn't worth my time to worry about it.  People do what they do. I couldn't possible care less if his threads are there or not and morality debates hold my interest for less than a nanosecond.

If it's within the TOS, then fine. If not, can it.  We are guests here under the guidelines of our host.  It's Dan's call and I'll support whatever decision he deems appropriate.

Dave

[Jazzyclassy]

I do not read Pike's reports after I read couple of his first ones, I  recognised from the start such type of men , in Moscow I can absolutely tell for many women that if they read his trip reports one day or something they would never ever wanted to know him and to hear anything about such type of guy
Yes we know that the man can not be blamed alone and he met the women who were  like him ,  so let it be his own experience, why would he ever considered  enlighting people about such  things, sometimes like many people told , some things should be unspoken

We are not kids and know that in every country there is this crazy thing as prostitution so he met the women of these particular class, so why shout about it so loudly, who needs this?

I never thought that you guys would discuss this topic  and even try to tolerate such behaviour, some of you even voted for Pike - that means you like his trips so why then you are criticizing him , I do not understand this double standards behaviour

The way out of this situation is the following as somebody said, either do not read his posts  or do not criticize him if you read- it is simple as that

And for newbies for example one can mark this topic as some warning or something , red colour like do not go there unless you have strong nerves or something

[jb]

Scott,

I think you are kidding youself with regard to the purity of the average regular female disco goer, it's a pretty well known fact amongst the experienced traveler that it's easy to get a hottie to trot off to bed for a few USD in these places.  I'm not making a judgement,,, I'm merely stating a fact.  You may not like it, but it still happens every night, regardless.  I'm sure Thor doesn't like it since he goes to the discos,  maybe he choose a wife from the ladies of the disco, woe is to the man who tries to make a housewife of a hooker...

Not my choice... Everyone is entitled to chose for himself,,, I just wouldn't chose a disco girl to marry.

[jb]

I never thought that you guys would discuss this topic  and even try to tolerate such behaviour, some of you even voted for Pike - that means you like his trips so why then you are criticizing him , I do not understand this double standards behaviour

Yes, we do discuss this crap, and no,,, most of us do not like it.  It shames me that you are able to read this tripe.  I'm sorry I could do nothing to spare you from reading it.

I think the only way we members can make an impression is to vote with our feet, we need to go elsewhere with our fourm, and our sncere comments, if RWD is content with the likes of Pike, then we must assume the management is thus mis-aligned.   I will look for another fourm, free from the Pike's, the Aberts, and TurboGuys, et al weirdos,,, a heaven for regular people without an agenda.  Even if I have to start a new fourm for legitimate RW seekers, I'll do it, and I will not be so kind to the abusers.

I'm so disgusted I could puke.

[Gator]

JB,

I have been inside just one Russian disco (a date took me during my first trip to St. Piter -another reason not to date young women).  

Because I am naive, I have no idea of what actually took place.  Most of it looked like clean fun, mainly Russians having a good time.  A few were being overserved with vodka and getting rowdy.   And there were a couple tables of frowning men in black suits with some oddly dressed women, who may have been attractive if someone washed the pancake makeup off their faces.  I observed few unattached women - the MO for a working girl. However, I was not looking as I was too busy showing how one danced in the 70s.  My date kept rolling her eyes, and refused to do the Jamaican grind to a slow song.

My point is that what you saw many years ago may differ remarkably from a more economically vibrant Russia of today.

[Gator]

Jazzy,

I never thought that you guys would discuss this topic  and even try to tolerate such behaviour, some of you even voted for Pike - that means you like his trips so why then you are criticizing him , I do not understand this double standards behaviour

There is no double standard.  Those who were critical voted "No".  Those who voted "Yes" were silent, and silence is appropriate for "sans report" supporters.  But there is a small victory: "Yes" voters are a minority.

[CaptB]

John,

Hopefully there are not too many members interested in such a "trip report" as is illustrated in this thread. You may remember a guy on the RWG who was going to Tver via LTP. This was something like FSU trip #22 ........searching for a partner. He was the guy attacking LTP's owner Witchdoctor.......when the doc did'nt own LTP at that time. I called him on his dating methods....stating he might possibly try some different approaches to finding a "partner". His response: "Who said I was looking for a partner....this is the Russian Women's Guide......not the Russian Women MARRIAGE Guide". I called on Spencer to clarify the intent of the RWG forum. Is the purpose expressly for folks looking for a "partner" from the FSU.....will this forum also accomodate folks whose end result is just "dating"......or even "sex tourism". I never received a deffinitive answer. Obviously......the bottom line is "the dollar" (or insert pound, grivna, rubble etc.) What some owners of such forums don't realize.....is that by catering to folks whose interest are really outside the original intent......(ie folks looking for a life partner from the FSU).....of such a board..

Although my skin may be a little thicker than my friend John's........when the board starts to allow things such things as a trip report on "sex tourism" .........I too would have to ask the question (originally.....now......and for the future)......"What is the focus of this forum?" I will say for the record.....as it is his board.......I am directing this question to Dan. My intent is not to put the owner of the board on the spot. Many of us came from that "other forum".....for the very reason of "loss of focus" (among other reasons...also). When you have to sift through much more, than we already do, to find solid information on the subject at hand (finding a partner in  the FSU ?)......then you may start to question its usefullness to your endeaver.

Men are men. I am far from being a prude. Kuna made mention that this really is'nt  a question of censorship........but maybe of (my word) focus. Although cameras and sailboats are subjects dear to my heart.......I would never expect a thread on Rangefinder.com to be allowed......about a description of a boatbuilding project. A quilting forum allowing a thread about "gutting a deer".
Yes ......extreme examples. I visit here to help others finder a "partner"........."not multiple partners".

I think most guys are here to find a partner. A natural extension of the process is discussing topics unique to international couples "after" marriage. And to get the point of view from a womens (FSU) point of view.....we encouge the women to join in here also. Is sex tourism part of the process ? I don't think so. It really is'nt censorship......but.....is this a relevant topic to a forum such as this? I have seen whole threads started on this forum.....on topics such as "breast size"......allowed to stand. Are they really helpful in your search......or were you just to lazy or bored to go out to the bar that night. Because we have invited women to participate here......do you think they really want to read such tripe. You can try to make "everyone" happy.
You won't. Or define the focus of this forum.....and keep the kind of customers......you want to attract. Many guys left the other board....because of lack of focus. Everyone should really be a student of history. If a similar set of circumstances presents itself.......history can repeat. No business survives......without focus.


Capt B

[batman]

Spot on Captain B

[Son of Clyde]

I thought boasting about sexual exploits was a "high school" type behavior. To believe adults behave this way gives me even less respect for those braggards. Now, to say you made 35 trips and had success with a few women (no details please) might be acceptable. We want the trip reports and to know of the rapport with the women, so some details are permissable. But not all the details, please. We do need to know what to expect on the trips so some detail is necessary. Please keep the "squirting" comments to yourself. This is not the RWD Porn site.

[Voyageur]

Although I found Pike's trip report distasteful, I voted along the non-censorship lines. If you don't want to read it, do not read it.  There was nothing that I saw in the trip report that was R or X rated (remember Matt123 in the old RWG?). I don't think that any causal reader would ever think that this type of TR represents the majority opinion of RWD.  There are too many decent fellows here and there is much evidence to support this, even in a casual read of the forum.

However, IMHO you must consider that all the males that frequently post on this board are not choirboys.  It is not out of the realm of possibility that some posters may put their best face forward in their posts but behave differently when presented opportunities far away from home. Although I would not want people whom try to exploit women as a next door neighbor, at least I have to recognize the guts to post a truthful alternative to the typical TR.  And honestly, the type of TR in question probably happens more than we would care to admit.

[Simoni]

JB:
My point is that what you saw many years ago may differ remarkably from a more economically vibrant Russia of today.

I only stayed in hotels my first two trips, and was never offered a prostitute, either by phone or in person.  After those first two trips I got smart and got a flat.

And yes,  I did go to discos in 4 FSU cities, and found lots of girls who just wanted to dance.  But I was in Tver and in Ukraine.  And I was never alone...always had a woman to guard me.

Maybe the problem is more severe in Moscow.  And to be frank, we were always out of there by 2.

Marina and I have never been to the disco together...I'll check it out on my next trip and give you guys an update....roaming reporter Si at your service 

JB-- Think I can get a light beer there? 

[Son of Clyde]

However, IMHO you must consider that all the males that frequently post on this board are not choirboys.

And honestly, the type of TR in question probably happens more than we would care to admit.

I agree with both comments.

I also think when someone boasts of their many conquests, they are either lying or may have an inferiority complex and a need to impress others. And maybe they do not respect the women they are meeting.

Why post "locker room" talk on a public message board?

[Sohkay]

Scott,

I think you are kidding youself with regard to the purity of the average regular female disco goer, it's a pretty well known fact amongst the experienced traveler that it's easy to get a hottie to trot off to bed for a few USD in these places.  I'm not making a judgement,,, I'm merely stating a fact.  You may not like it, but it still happens every night, regardless.  I'm sure Thor doesn't like it since he goes to the discos,  maybe he choose a wife from the ladies of the disco, woe is to the man who tries to make a housewife of a hooker...

Not my choice... Everyone is entitled to chose for himself,,, I just wouldn't chose a disco girl to marry.

jb wrote, "I'm sure Thor doesn't like it since he goes to the discos,  maybe he choose a wife from the ladies of the disco, woe is to the man who tries to make a housewife of a hooker..."

To me, this statement is completely out of the realm of decency. It's a disgusting and vile implication. You should have your words removed AND apologize.

[Mir]

To me, this statement is completely out of the realm of decency. It's a disgusting and vile implication. You should have your words removed AND apologize.

Agreed
I can't understand how anyone can say that about another person's wife.
Unless there has been some mistake and it was not supposed to read like it does.

[Son of Clyde]

I think you have to read between the lines. I really don't think jb really tries to offend people. His posts can be heavy handed one day and encouraging the next. I think some peoples moods, at the time, are reflected in their posts.