Acceptable Behaviour and Trip Reports

[Admin]

jb wrote, "I'm sure Thor doesn't like it since he goes to the discos,  maybe he choose a wife from the ladies of the disco, woe is to the man who tries to make a housewife of a hooker..."

To me, this statement is completely out of the realm of decency. It's a disgusting and vile implication. You should have your words removed AND apologize.

There are a couple of different 'streams' of thought going on in this thread. I am going to bifurcate, or trifurcate, them in the following posts.

First - I agree that John's post could be taken as a criticism of Thor and his wife. I also see that it may have not been what he intended to communicate, hence, this question:

John, are you trying to state (or imply) that Thor selected a wife who is a hooker?

- Dan

[Admin]

Next topic.

There seems to be some controversy over whether or not the women at discos are predominantly prostitutes, or semi-pros.

Suggest this be taken up as a separate thread.

I *will* take the opportunity to say that my wife enjoyed going to discos - with me, and prior to meeting me. I also know the number of intimate partners she had prior to meeting me, and it is fair to say she was NOT a prostitute.

- Dan

[Gator]

JB can defend himself; however, this comment is not his character.  

Yes, he can be scornful and chidful, but he almost always has some logic behind his remarks.  There is no logic in what he wrote.  JB's post came late at night when he normally sleeps, so who knows what was going on.  

Thor shared numerous photos of his wife, and she is a lovely woman indeed, and seemed classy and a family woman.  She is not what can be implied from JB's comment.  She is young, and young people like to party and go to clubs.  I can also envision Thor and his enthusiasm having a good time there too.  All completely innocent.  

On one hand we have JB at an advanced age going to Moscow discos (or one where oil rig workers hang out) during bad economic times when some women had to do whatever it took to feed their family.    On the other hand, we have Thor and his more vibrant age at a club in much better economic times.   The two are not the same.  

Thor seems like a rugged Viking, and with the way some of you are unfairly treating him, you should not be surprised if he shows up at your door wearing a helmet with horns and brandishing a weapons that will take your head off.

[Admin]

Now back to the original topic.

CaptB raised some interesting points about RWD's "focus" - and I'd like to address that.

First, RWD has a few principles which we founded the site on - and we persist in the belief that those principles are effective for guiding the site. They include:

* Maximum inclusivity. We want anyone and everyone who has an interest in the theme of our site, to participate here freely.
* Minimum moderation and intervention. To the extent possible, we want the board to be self-moderating.

Since the beginning of the board, there have been numerous topics dedicated to the first principle of inclusivity. It has been debated hotly - and continues even today. My suspicion is that RWD, like any thriving community, will be in a constant state of re-inventing itself and re-forming who we are based on ever-changing membership ranks. As BC has stated MANY times - principles before personalities. RWD has a firm foundation with inclusivity, and we will promote that principle now, and in the future.

While we also promote the principle of self-moderation, we also have the Terms of Service which outlines behaviors which are out-of-bounds. One of those would be any topic which promotes pornography. While not explicitly state in the ToS, RWD has a long-standing policy of opposing sex tourism, or promotion of prostitution. We simply will not allow those types of posts to stand. There is a distinction made between the promotion of those activities, and merely mentioning them. For example, in any published tour guide, one will often find brief mention of houses of ill-repute. In part, this is so the traveler may be aware, and avoid, such places. It is also true that some will use that information to seek those places - but the information is not supplied for that purpose.

On the subject of Trip Reports. RWD is very fortunate to have a community of members who are generous in their sharing of their experiences from their trips. We encourage that, and we wish to promote the continued publication of trip reports.

As stated earlier, and some may have missed it - the T/R sans response section was created PRIMARILY so that members could have a choice. They could choose to post their TR in the open section, with the understanding that other members may challenge them and their decisions - OR - they could choose to post their TR unfettered in the closed section without any anxiety.

**THE CREATION OF THE FORUM WAS SO THAT MEMBERS HAD MORE CHOICE** and so that more people would feel comfortable posting Trip Reports. Simple as that.

I agree with the suggestions that even the closed TR's should have some opportunity for commentary - and I am working on a process that accomplishes both. It is not a simple problem, and will take me some time to resolve - but I will come up with a plan to achieve it.

In summary - we are trying our best to remain true to the principles of our site. We want people to feel comfortable posting here. I *am* listening to what you all are saying in this topic. I promise. I *will* do something to accommodate the suggestions.

Thanks!

- Dan

[catzenmouse]

 

Thor seems like a rugged Viking, and with the way some of you are unfairly treating him, you should not be surprised if he shows up at your door wearing a helmet with horns and brandishing a weapons that will take your head off.

I think Richard said it very well in another thread about Thor's heart being in the right place but it is his delivery that creates bad feelings in others.

Personally I mostly just ignore him now (no, he is not on ignore) as I find his posts arrogant, pompous, and condescending more often than not. It is a constant stream of "Ukraine is the best", "Use guides (especially my friend)", and disco/party posts. Sorry if he gets insulted by this but it isn't anything that I will lose any sleep over...

On Topic: I voted for the TR to stay but I do NOT approve of Pike or his methodology. I do think it is a very good example of a certain type of individual who goes overseas to boost his ego/score sheet as he surely could not do this at home.

Whether he lies to get his conquest or not I do not know. If not, then he probably finds female versions of himself which is of no consequence to me, (or I think any man seriously looking for a life partner) so they end up both getting what they want.

If he is lying/scamming them to get his way then I hope one of their friends/brothers/fathers carve him a new one and we see his picture on a milk carton as that would make him the second lowest form of life on the planet just a half step above politicians in my book.

FWIW, YMMV, IMO,

Ken

[Sohkay]

Dan,
I like the idea of read-only trip reports. They would certainly be easier to read, and I would assume, write. It could actually have the effect of getting more and better quality trip reports. Members still have the option of starting a thread to comment on a trip report, or anything else for that matter and the T.O.S. takes care of the guidelines. And of course, there will always be those posters who want to write a trip report with comment, and they will have their area.

The read-only trip report could actually end up being a factor that could reposition RWD's competition and set up this site as THE site to read for FSU trip reports. It could be big.

Think about it.

Best regards,
Sohkay

[William3rd]

Postings without the ability to respond has already discussed as being censorship. I certainly agree with this position.

As far as humoring the less than stable, this board gives a lot of leeway, as is witnessed by the Pike thread.

Dan, you are going in the right direction. Some form of response is a mandatory.

[Daveman]

Off the topic of T/R's

On the topic of RWD and how it is viewed... Here's something that is a bit interesting.  When viewing topics as a "guest", there are banner ads placed throughout the threads.  There are certain ads from passion.com which could easily give the wrong impression to a "guest" reader as this being a site which promotes "sex" in some way. The ads don't bother me in the least but they may attract a different group of people to the ranks of posters...

edit: ooops, double posted a pic first time.

[ScottinCrimea]

Scott,

I think you are kidding youself with regard to the purity of the average regular female disco goer, it's a pretty well known fact amongst the experienced traveler that it's easy to get a hottie to trot off to bed for a few USD in these places.  I'm not making a judgement,,, I'm merely stating a fact.  You may not like it, but it still happens every night, regardless.  I'm sure Thor doesn't like it since he goes to the discos,  maybe he choose a wife from the ladies of the disco, woe is to the man who tries to make a housewife of a hooker...

Not my choice... Everyone is entitled to chose for himself,,, I just wouldn't chose a disco girl to marry.

So what you're saying, jb, is that the majority of the women who go to discos are hookers or at the very least sluts?  And you're also suggesting that because my wife and daughter have both gone to discos that they are poor marriage material because they are sluts just looking to make a few US dollars?

I'm not so naive to think that there aren't prostitutes or easy women that frequent discos, but to say that the average woman there is one and that any woman who goes to a disco is poor marriage material is an insult to the wives and girlfriends of most of the men here.  to be honest, if you had made this atatement in my presence, you would now be gumming your food.

[Sohkay]

Dave,
I just logged out and took a look. I hadn't seen these ads.

[batman]

So what you're saying, jb, is that the majority of the women who go to discos are hookers or at the very least sluts?  And you're also suggesting that because my wife and daughter have both gone to discos that they are poor marriage material because they are sluts just looking to make a few US dollars?

I'm not so naive to think that there aren't prostitutes or easy women that frequent discos, but to say that the average woman there is one and that any woman who goes to a disco is poor marriage material is an insult to the wives and girlfriends of most of the men here.  to be honest, if you had made this statement in my presence, you would now be gumming your food.

I just read a trip report in another forum which mentions some girls occasionally go to discos just to dance with their friends. Even older women. Apparently there are various types of discos. Some are majorly for hookers, some have both and some have no hookers.

Disco that jb has visited in Moscow and elsewhere were probably the wrong sort. The Discos in FSU may be becoming more like western nightclubs as the years go by with more sexual promiscuity. From what I read in other trip reports the locals of each town or city would know the best places to "just dance"

Scott's wife and daughter obviously went to the dancing discos and not the slutty nightclubs

I'm not into dancing myself and a lot of other guys here so we wouldn't be the ones to ask where to best "discos" are and which "night clubs" should be avoided.

Also, there is a destinction between meeting your wife at a disco... anyone? ... and wives and girl friends who have been to discos just to dance with friends... probably a lot! - Based on the various forums and trip reports I've read so far.

[Jazzyclassy]

Everyone has his own point of view. There are people here  who refuse to understand that there are ones, who are conservative and who understand entertainment as not only going to discos but to attend theatres for example museums or some exhibitions or going just to see nature and spot on the sights of the city, Why it is always so if you are not going to discos that means you are an alien or something and why one can not express his own point of view, you all guys vote against censorship, however you  forbid a person to express his own opinion towards this or that subject .
So where is your tolerance and democracy towards so many public points of view

I personally like discos I go there very rarely cos I do not have money and cos nowadays its indeed a place of very strange  atmosphere and it is sometimes dangerous to go there. Just for a dance as many of you pointed-  am sorry to go for a dance just for 1000 rubles per evening, that is a fee for decent disco. Then those ladies are very rich , plus to buy some food and drinks.
So do not please say that the ones who do not attend discos and express their opinion about the people who go there , that those people  are disgraceful and so on, many people do not like discos cos it is really dangerous place nowadays

[I/O]

The Discos in FSU may be becoming more like western nightclubs as the years go by with more sexual promiscuity.

If you think sexual promiscuity is a recent development in the FSU or Russia you are very much mistaken.

I/O

[KenC]

After reading parts of Pike's TR on his sex tour of FSU I remain troubled that it has been allowed to be posted in a forum where responses and opinions can't be added.

My main concern is that it will appear to future members that we as a community endorse such behaviour and that future trips like that will be accepted as the norm.

Maybe it's me... Maybe I'm a prude... Maybe I'm the only one here that thinks that type of trip and Trip Report is inappropriate.

Where does everyone else stand on that sort of crap?

Well. Kuna, you may not like my answer here, but I see nothing wrong with Pike's TR.  The most serious offense he may have perpetrated is in giving too much detail and even that is subjective.  Unlike Gator, I didn't read his TR as being boastful but told in a rather a matter of fact way.  I read the report as an active bachelor in a foreign country.  No more, no less. 

Pike did state at the beginning of his report that the women he contacted were on "dating sites" and not "marriage sites", so there was no deception of marriage promises.  As for his mentioning of the sexy 16 year old, come on!  He didn't act on anything, he just reported what happened.  If you don't think a 50 year old can get turned on my a seductive 16 yo, you had better hold that judgement until you hit 50!

As for Pike choosing to not allow responses to his TR, that is an option offered by this site and he is free to choose it.  Many do not want to debate every little thing posted in a TR and it is Pike's choice to do so.  I think it was a good choice too.

As for this TR or others like it to be allowed or not here, again, give me a break!  This is the real world and that was a real report.  It was informative in many many ways.  Not every man going to Russia is seeking a wife.  My original trip to meet Lena was not with marriage in mind at all.  I was much like what Pike described: "Not looking to get married, but open to the idea."  Hell, I was not even that open to the idea of getting married when I first went.  Pike's TR also describes many different types of women that one can come across in his travels to the fsu.  Sex tourist?  I think not.  I think Pike went to Russia on business and being an active bachelor made the most of his time there.  Did he have sex?  Yes, but he also turned down opportunities to have it too.  Again, all normal behavior in my book.
KenC
(Let me say that the TR is the only posts of Pike's that I have read, so if he shows a different face in other threads, I don't know about it)

[Admin]

Off the topic of T/R's

On the topic of RWD and how it is viewed... Here's something that is a bit interesting.  When viewing topics as a "guest", there are banner ads placed throughout the threads.  There are certain ads from passion.com which could easily give the wrong impression to a "guest" reader as this being a site which promotes "sex" in some way. The ads don't bother me in the least but they may attract a different group of people to the ranks of posters...

edit: ooops, double posted a pic first time.

Dave,

Yes, you are correct - there are a number of advertisements which appear to Guests of RWD, and which are not visible to members. I will be happy to make them visible to members too, if you really want them 

As for Passion.com - as I understand it, they are a member of the FriendFinder group. Their ads are racy, but not overtly sexual, as far as I am aware.

BTW - there is a separate Terms of Service which advertisers must accept, and you are free to read it here -- http://www.goodwife.com/payment/mod.php?mod=siteinfo&id=7. If anyone finds one of the advertisers operating outside the bounds of that ToS, please advise.

- Dan

[ScottinCrimea]

KenC, What hopes was Pike trying to create in these women by showing them pictures of his house and discussing his finances?  He was obviously trying to suggest that there was the possibility that this could be more than just a one time date even when he had no such idea in mind.  To even suggest he was straightforward with these women about his true intentions is baloney.

No matter how benign you think his details were, he shows no class at all and not the slightest respect for women.  It embarasses me to be associated with him in any way, even on a forum.

[William3rd]

This will be my last post in this area. Pike is not worth the attention he is garnering.

From the few times he slipped up and let people have a glimpse of his plans and his modus operandi in the early going before he went sans comments, its pretty clear he lied his AZ off. False in part, false in whole.

Scott, you raised a very serious point. WHY would he be talking about home and money?

AND-why would these women be traveling from out of town and taking time off of work-even if Pike is paying their way? Just to have sex with a man past his prime?

BECAUSE- he is posing as a serious suitor.

That is the only reasonable explanation.

And if you all want to believe his assurances- well, my client just died leaving 5 million in an account and I need you to stand in as his heir. We will split 50/50. Just send me some processing fees. . . . . ..

[KenC]

KenC, What hopes was Pike trying to create in these women by showing them pictures of his house and discussing his finances?  He was obviously trying to suggest that there was the possibility that this could be more than just a one time date even when he had no such idea in mind.  To even suggest he was straightforward with these women about his true intentions is baloney.

No matter how benign you think his details were, he shows no class at all and not the slightest respect for women.  It embarasses me to be associated with him in any way, even on a forum.

Scott,
Let me be clear in that I am neither a fan of Pike or terribly against what he reported.  I think it was a report that was made in a matter of fact manner.  I guess one could assume that by showing off his house was baiting the hook, but who hasn't done that in some manner or another?  If you drive up for a date in a fine automobile, or dress in expensive clothes, or take your date to a high end restaurant, it all could be in the same vein of baiting the hook.  Where does showing someone who you are become baiting the hook?  And what is wrong with baiting the hook?  Pike said from the beginning that he was not opposed to getting married, so there was always the possibility.

Look, when I was single I didn't flaunt my wealth nor did I hide it.  If I took a woman to my country club for dinner it wasn't to impress her, but because I liked it there (and had to spend X amount of $ per month too)  It was who I was, not to create undo expectations, but that didn't stop women from hoping to be the next Mrs. C.  Should I have rented a wreck of a car and taken my dates to Micky D's so as to not bait the hook?
KenC

[KenC]

This will be my last post in this area. Pike is not worth the attention he is garnering.

From the few times he slipped up and let people have a glimpse of his plans and his modus operandi in the early going before he went sans comments, its pretty clear he lied his AZ off. False in part, false in whole.

Scott, you raised a very serious point. WHY would he be talking about home and money?

AND-why would these women be traveling from out of town and taking time off of work-even if Pike is paying their way? Just to have sex with a man past his prime?
BECAUSE- he is posing as a serious suitor.

That is the only reasonable explanation.

And if you all want to believe his assurances- well, my client just died leaving 5 million in an account and I need you to stand in as his heir. We will split 50/50. Just send me some processing fees. . . . . ..

William,
Why wouldn't a woman accept an all paid adventure in a big city with a man that obviously knows his way around women?  I look at what Pike did as more realistic dating than anything else.  He didn't go there with marriage promises looking to fill a wife vacancy.  He went to a foreign country and dated a few women.  For the life of me, I do not see the big deal.  he didn't force any of the women into sex, or even guilt them into it.  If anything, he was a gentleman about it and even showed some integrity by turning down the offers from a woman that he wasn't interested in.  Bottom line is he went to Russia prepared to meet a bunch of women.  He got sex from some of them.  So what?
KenC

[batman]

How do the guys dating these women feel if these RW and UW were sleeping with other guys during this time too?  Not good right?  Pike also didn't like it.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

[KenC]

How do the guys dating these women feel if these RW and UW were sleeping with other guys during this time too?  Not good right?  Pike also didn't like it.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Batman,
I see no reference to that in Pike's TR at all.  In the beginning of a relationship there usually is a period of "don't ask, don't tell" and Pike does make a reference to that.  He said he didn't want to talk about "other" girlfriends or boyfriends if I recall correctly.  Nothing at all wrong with that as I see it.  Hell, I didn't even detect any bitterness when the one young woman used Pike to test out her feelings of leaving her husband.
KenC

[batman]

Pike Said:
"There a very scary thing happened.  Maryanne took a phone call on her mobile, and I was surprised to hear her talking in English.  Then . . . oh my God . . . she said ‘Jerry (real name) I can’t talk now.  Bla, bla, bla.  Call me later . . . maybe in a couple of hours.  I am thinking holy sheeeet, it’s OK for me to date multiple women . . . but now this woman is going to be dating another English speaking man while I am in town . . . it just ain’t right!!!!"

I had to dip my hand back into the you know what to dig this out. It's a dirty job but someones got to do it.

[batman]

It's ok for him to do it but not ok for the women? How stuck up and arrogant is that? Give me a break Ken. I actually can't believe you are defending this guy and his actions. What does your wife think?

[KenC]

Pike Said:
"There a very scary thing happened.  Maryanne took a phone call on her mobile, and I was surprised to hear her talking in English.  Then . . . oh my God . . . she said ‘Jerry (real name) I can’t talk now.  Bla, bla, bla.  Call me later . . . maybe in a couple of hours.  I am thinking holy sheeeet, it’s OK for me to date multiple women . . . but now this woman is going to be dating another English speaking man while I am in town . . . it just ain’t right!!!!"

I had to dip my hand back into the you know what to dig this out. It's a dirty job but someones got to do it.

I stand corrected.  (Maybe tongue in cheek?)
KenC

[Mir]

I think he was OK if the other boyfriends were Russian, only one English-speaking boyfriend at a time

Personally I think KenC is talking a lot of sense.