What kind of immigration bill would you support?

[ScottinCrimea]

There is quite an interesting industry in the border states related to money going across the border.  Mexican nationals will, through having a child in the US or other means, both legal and illegal, become eligible for welfare benefits.  They will then move back across the border where the cost of living is lower, of course not informing government authorities of this.  Certain lawyers arrange for their monthly checks to be sent to a PO box in the US that the Mexicans use as their "resident" address  These lawyers will then cash these checks and send the money to the participants in Mexico, keeping a nice percentage for themselves.

They have gotten pretty good at scamming the system in other ways.  One told me how they were able to get double payments for quite some time through a very simple method.  When they filled out their forms, they would list themselves as being of the opposite sex.  Once the checks started coming, they would go and inform the officials that there was a mistake on the application.  The way the system worked, they couldn't just change the sex, so they had to prepare a whole new application.  There was a lag of several months between when the nes application was processed and the old one was removed from the system, so they got paid for both.  In some cases the old one never did get removed from the system.  They see Americans as rather stupid because it is so easy to scam the system.

[jb]

I don't know which States you are referring to Scott, however I know it isn't Texas.  Texas did away with "welfare checks" years ago.  Welfare payments are now distributed through the use of a "Debit Card", called the "Lone Star Card".  The State deposits the welfare credit each month and the card is good only in stores in Texas.  Taking it to Mexico would render it useless.

[ScottinCrimea]

My experiences are with the system in California, which isn't known for having the brightest politicians.

[Son of Clyde]

Let's just take a simple look at enforcement.

As it is now many illegals are committing crimes that should (and are supposed to) get them deported. So far, they are not as the agencies still do not cooperate well enough to get the information to everyone who needs it. We cannot even come close to doing that as it stands now. I just saw a lovely piece about Jose Villa who is an illegal alien. He has been arrested 11 times and in jail for several of them. Two of them were for assault. He was just released and raped a 13 or 14 year old girl. Just the kind of person we want to give amnesty to isn't it?

How can this country even consider amnesty if they cannot even get rid of multiple conviction illegal alien felons? Does anyone in power have a clue? I seriously doubt it. Any blanket amnesty, no matter that the majority would be fine upstanding citizens, without fixing the existing problem is beyond ludicrous and would only go to show that our government continues to care more about what they are going to get from some lobbyist than about what is actually good for the country.

I don't give a rat's ass what the numbers say. Fix the problem that we have now! Enforce the laws that we have now! Grows a pair as a country for a change. These are the same people who consider IMBRA a good thing. They are not to be trusted in their motives.

FWIW,
 Ken

I am not for making Mexico a State just posted the link because some think it is a good idea. Another trick Mexicans use is to work using a relatives SSN (or even stealing an SSN). And the US government has to fix the SSA record when the people are caught. I am not sure they can even be reprimanded except maybe a slap on the wrist and a "Do not do this again" threat.

[ScottinCrimea]

I had one Mexican child come into the ER complaining of a sore throat.  I pulled his old chart because the records showed he had visited the ER two days earlier.  At that time he had a severe rash and was diagnosed with chicken pox.  It seems the chicken pox had miraculously disappeared in two days rather than the typical two weeks. He was also measured as being taller and heavier than then what he was two days later.  I'm betting that MediCal card has really made the rounds!

[TigerPaws]

Turmoil in Tulsa: The illegal immigration wreck

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19466978/

[jb]

Actually, things are much worse than anyone here realizes.

25 Reasons to Deport Illegal Aliens... I have included the web links, check it out for yourself.

1. $11 Billion to $22  billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year.
http://tinyurl.com/zob77_ (http://tinyurl.com/zob77) 

2. $2.2 Billion  dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as
food stamps, WIC,  and free school lunches for illegal aliens.
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html_
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html)   

3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.
 
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html_
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html)   

4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school
education for children here illegally.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html_
(http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html) 
 

5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born
children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html_
(http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html)   

6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.
_http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html_
(http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html)   

7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.
_http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html_
(http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html)   

8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare  &
social services by the American taxpayers.
http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html_
(http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html)   

9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by
the illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html_
(http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html)   

10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's
two  and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their 
children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the
United  States.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html_
(http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html)   

11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that
crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from 
Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroine and 
marijuana, crossed into the U. S. from the Southern border.
Homeland Security Report: _http://tinyurl.com/t9sht_ (http://tinyurl.com/t9sht) 

12. The National  Policy Institute, "estimated that the total cost of mass
deportation would be  between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost
of between $41 and $46 billion  annually over a five year period."
http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf_
(http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf)   

13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to
their countries of origin. _http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm_
(http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm) 

14.  "The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex
Crimes committed  by Illegal Immigrants In The United States".
http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml_ (http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml)

 

15. Every day  12 Americans are murdered by an illegal alien. Another
13 Americans are killed  by uninsured drunk illegal aliens and Eight
American Children are victims of a  sex crime committed by an illegal alien each
day! (Toto, we're not in Kansas  anymore.)
_http://tinyurl.com/2ungbu_
(http://tinyurl.com/2ungbu) 

16. Today, criminal  aliens account for over 29 percent of prisoners in
Federal Bureau of Prisons  facilities and a higher share of all federal
prison inmates. These prisoners  represent the fastest growing segment of the
federal prison population.  Incarceration of criminal aliens cost an estimated
$624 million to state prisons  (1999) and $891 million to federal prisons (2002),
according to the most recent  available figure from the Bureau of Justice
Statistics. _http://tinyurl.com/ahjkg_ (http://tinyurl.com/ahjkg) 

17. "Illegal Aliens  and American Medicine". "Many illegal aliens harbor
fatal diseases that American  Medicine fought and vanquished long ago,
such as drug-resistant tuberculosis,  malaria, leprosy, plague, polio, dengue
and Chagas disease." The Journal of  American Physicians and Surgeons
http://www.jpands.org/jpands1001.htm_
(http://www.jpands.org/jpands1001.htm) 

18. In  2002, HIV/AIDS was the third leading cause of death among
Hispanic men aged 35  to 44 and the fourth leading cause of death among Hispanic
women in the same age  group. Most Hispanic men were exposed to HIV through
sexual contact with other  men. Source (CDC):
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/factsheets/hispanic.htm_
(http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/factsheets/hispanic.htm)   

19. If enacted the Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act (CIRA, S. 
2611) would be the most dramatic change in immigration law in 80 years, 
allowing an estimated 103 million persons to legally immigrate to the
U.S. over  the next 20 years -fully one-third of the current population of the
United  States. _http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/wm1076.cfm_
(http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/wm1076.cfm)   

20. U.S. Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-AL) today unveiled an impact analysis that
shows the Senate immigration bill -should it become law - would permit
up  to 217.1 million new legal immigrants into the United States over the next
20 years, a number equal to 66 percent of the total current population.
http://tinyurl.com/3cawk3_ (http://tinyurl.com/3cawk3) 

21. The number of  illegal immigrants in the United States may be as
high as 20 million people,  more than double the official 9 million people
estimated by the Census Bureau.  1/3/05 _http://tinyurl.com/2rxtwm_
(http://tinyurl.com/2rxtwm) 

22. Cases of Leprosy  on The Rise In The U.S., The New York Times.
"While there were some 900 recorded  cases in the United States 40 years ago,
today more than 7,000 people have  leprosy.." Leprosy is an airbourne virus, it
can also be spread by touching and  coughing.
http://tinyurl.com/3bnukp_
(http://tinyurl.com/3bnukp) 

23. Organizations  Protesting Immigration Reform, State by State. Won't you
join in?
_http://www.oregonir.org/Immigration_Reform_Orgs.htm_
(http://www.oregonir.org/Immigration_Reform_Orgs.htm)   

24. America Welcomes Illegal's Contagious Disease.
_http://www.rense.com/general64/ill.htm_
(http://www.rense.com/general64/ill.htm) 

25.  Mexico is the 4th Richest Oil Nation in the World.
http://tinyurl.com/35qbap_ (http://tinyurl.com/35qbap) 

Illegal Alien Fact  Sheet - Updated: December 10, 2006
http://tinyurl.com/skyf4_ (http://tinyurl.com/skyf4)

Twelve Americans  are murdered every day by illegal aliens which
translates to 4,380 Americans  murdered annually by illegal aliens
(Rep. Steve King, R-Iowa) 

Thirteen Americans are killed by drunk illegal alien drivers for
another  annual death toll of 4,745. That's 23,725 since Sept. 11,
2001.
(Rep.  Steve King, R-Iowa)

Eight American children are victims of sexual abuse  by illegal aliens
every day a total of 2,920 annually.
(Rep. Steve King,  R-Iowa)

K-12 school expenditures for illegal aliens cost U.S. Taxpayers  $7.4
Billion a year
(US Rep.. Gary Miller)

Illegal aliens consume  $3.7 Billion annually in Medicare and Medicaid
benefits since 40% of illegal  aliens are on U.S. Welfare
(Federation for American Immigration Reform) 

$1.6 billion is spent annually in prison costs to house, feed and
clothe illegal aliens who fill 32% of our federal and state prisons
(Fox News  Channel O'Reilly Factor)

$10 billion dollars are sent back to Mexico  annually by illegal aliens.
(according to the Pew Hispanic Center), an amount  which now makes it
Mexico's 2nd largest industry.

Leprosy, (Hansen's  disease), was so rare in America that in 40 years
only 900 people were  afflicted. Suddenly, in the past three years America
has more than 7,000 cases  of leprosy. Leprosy now is endemic to northeastern
states because illegal aliens  and other immigrants brought leprosy from
India, Brazil, the Caribbean, and  Mexico
(Thomson American Health Consultants; 2003)

Tuberculosis was  virtually absent in Virginia until in 2002, when it
spiked a 17% increase, but  Prince William County, just south of Washington,
D.C., had a much larger rise of  188%.
(American Medical Association (JAMA) June 2005)

Illegal aliens  make up 32% of State & Federal Prison populations
(FNC O'Reilly Factor) 

There are an estimated 240,000 illegal alien sexual predators currently  in
the USA (Violent Crimes Institute - May 2006)

Over 1,000,000  sexual crimes are estimated to have been committed in
the USA over the past  seven years by illegal aliens
(Violent Crimes Institute - May 2006) 

90% of all crime in Brooks County Texas is committed by illegal aliens.
(Brooks County Sheriff's Department April 2006)

In the Jan/Feb of  2006, of the 120,000 illegals caught in the Laredo
sector, 2,500 of them were  from the Middle East!!!

A large, but unknown, number of al Qaeda  terrorists and Chinese
nationals are infiltrating our country virtually anywhere  they choose from
Brownsville to San Diego. One al Qaeda terrorist was held for  several weeks after
being captured on our border and is currently under FBI  custody.

A large number of Islamic individuals have moved into homes in  Nuevo
Laredo and are being taught Spanish to assimilate into the local culture. 
--unbelievable!

Texas Border Sheriffs have found uniform patches from an  elite group
of Islamic suicide bombers
(Verified by Israeli intelligence) 

The rate of non-Mexican aliens (or OTMs) and special interest aliens
(or SIAs aliens from so-called countries of interest ) apprehended on the
northern and southern borders has increased from 30,147 in 2003 to 44,614 in
2004. - 
Congressman Tom Tancredo

By June 30, 2004, the number of SIAs had  swelled 42.5% to
6,022 from "Countries of Interest" such as those the State  Department
considers sponsors of terrorism (Cuba, Iran, Libya, North Korea, Sudan, Syria) and
others where militant Islam simmers (Afghanistan, Egypt,  Indonesia,
Iraq, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia,  Somalia,
and Yemen). --Department of Homeland Security

Numerous law  enforcement officers have been beaten, stabbed and shot
by illegal aliens over  the past few years.  Officer Rodney Johnson, 40,
Houston, Texas.  Officer  Brian Jackson, 28, Dallas, Texas.  Deputy Brandon
"Brandy" Winfield, 29, Marion  County, Ohio.  Detective Hugo Arango, 24, of the
Doroville, Ga. o Deputy Saul  Gallegos, 35, Chelan County, Wash. Deputy Sheriff
David March, 33, Los Angeles  County,  Officer Tony Zeppetella, 27, Oceanside,
Calif,  Officer Daniel Howard  Golden, 27, Huntsville, Ala,  And
Dozens More... 

[TigerPaws]

Please try not to confuse people with to many FACTS that might contradict their preconceived ideas. It could cause brain damage.

TigerPaws

[jb]

I'm merely trying to make the point, (however badly), that the detriment to our society done by illegal immigrants far exceeds the possible benefits gained by the rich man being able to hire a cheap maid or gardner.  If you add up all the costs over the past 25 years illegal immigration has cost the US taxpayer, you would begin to see the cost of the Iraqi War on Terror is just a drop in the bucket.  The only difference is the illegal Mexicans didn't hijack 3 airplanes to do their damage. 

[Sohkay]

...The only difference is the illegal Mexicans didn't hijack 3 airplanes to do their damage. 

That's right, it was the Iraqis that attacked us, wasn't it.

Unbelievable.

Really it was the Mongolians.

Damn Mongolians.

[IAmZon]

Those that work hard; possess intelligence; are beautiful and or athletics; and are moral and virtuous receive Automatic Full citizens - 40 acres and a mule.

Those that work less hard (especially union members); not especially bright, 4 s, 5s and couch potatoes; morally inconsistent are selected iny meny miny mo.

Those that work or apply effort at all; dumb; lazy; and morally ambiguous must live in Mexico and apply for Visas in the US, much like AM apply for visas in Russia.

[Mir]

Really it was the Mongolians.

Damn Mongolians.

Just because he is retarded doesn't mean that he has Down's Syndrome (previously called Mongolism)

[Sohkay]

Mir,

Shut up.

[Mir]

I suppose if I don't you will put me on ignore, I am quivering in my boots

[William3rd]

Oh well- the Brit Twit rides again. . . . . Talking about something he knows nothing about.

It is much more restful not reading his flatulence. Ignore is a very fine place for him.

[Sohkay]

Damn Mongolians

[Mamma D]

During the 40-50's there was as a *Bracero program for farm workers....

The farmer/rancher provided bunkhouse type housing and I think meals. These workers were documented. Probably not paid wages that Americans would demand.. but were not taken advantage of as the Illegals are today.

If the illegal jobs dried up, so would the stress to come here and send home the wages....

If and when the money dries up ... I believe the largest part of the problem will also dry up...

My take as an old Californian....yours will likely differ as this is a problem spread over most of the American economy.

Employers want cheap labor and as long as it exists so will the BREAKING of the LAW!

[ScottinCrimea]

Great list of statistics and facts, jb, though I'm sure there are those who think that if we just legalize all of these people they will all suddenly become law-abiding, well educated citizens.  Of course it is only their illegal status that forces them to rape, murder and abuse the welfare system.  Once they are all legalized, we will have a utopian society, just like in Mexico.

I think those here who favor this wave of illegal immigration would think twice about their views if it had an impact on their lives more than that it provides them with cheaper fruit, such as a child abused or a family member killed in a criminal act by one of them or an auto accident caused by one of them.

[Mir]

Oh well- the Brit Twit rides again. . . . . Talking about something he knows nothing about.

It is much more restful not reading his flatulence. Ignore is a very fine place for him.

At least mine comes out of the back passage, your flatulence comes out when you open your mouth

And who told you that you know anything about anything?

[Mir]

I swear on my life I did not call any member of this forum retarded nor do I think that any of them have any hand in any terrorist attacks.

[Son of Clyde]

Mir, you have to try harder. Only 3 people are ignoring you and I am not one of them.

[jb]

Why is it that when someone tries to provide real facts, not liberal fiction,,, the left comes out of the woodwork on the attack?

No one can document a single case where illegal immigration has helped, rather than hurt our country. 

[TigerPaws]

During the 40-50's there was as a *Bracero program for farm workers.... Yes I remember the proram well and it worked for a while until they stsrted to stay and get on our welfair system.

The farmer/rancher provided bunkhouse type housing and I think meals. These workers were documented. Probably not paid wages that Americans would demand.. but were not taken advantage of as the Illegals are today.

If the illegal jobs dried up, so would the stress to come here and send home the wages....

If and when the money dries up ... I believe the largest part of the problem will also dry up...

My take as an old Californian....yours will likely differ as this is a problem spread over most of the American economy.

Employers want cheap labor and as long as it exists so will the BREAKING of the LAW! Yes and that is the point they are criminals and we should treat them as such.

TigerPaws

[BC]

As with many things in life there is a balance.. obviously the weight of illegal immigration has negated many if not all the benefits.

OTOH it seems that over time, a dependence on cheap labor has grown.

The question is not so much what can be done about bringing the numbers down but if the demand can be reduced.

One can almost draw similarities between illegal immigrants and illegal drugs.. -in the end there probably isn't a darn thing we can do about either.

[TigerPaws]

BC,

While I fear you are right I do beliveve that something can be done, now if washington will do something is another story.

TigerPaws