What kind of immigration bill would you support?

[Wayne B]

VDH, very well stated.....we have to stop the 'Horse sh!t'  Close the south and north borders.....then we can deal with the next step...

[ScottinCrimea]

Isn't that really what most of us have been saying all along?

[jb]

Isn't that really what most of us have been saying all along?

Yeah, but he's so much more eloquent than me.  A more refined and broader brush paints a bigger canvas.

[Mamma D]

Unless the rules have changed ..... Children born of American G.I.s were Americans and not citizens of the country they were born in....

I believe that children's citizenship should match the parents citizenship and passport. Usually the Fathers....

This would stop women in labor jumping the border (TJ & Laredo among others) and giving birth at the American taxpayers expense.....since hospitals cannot turn them away once labor begins.

This is used as a foundation to bring the rest of the family into this country on welfare status.

Mamma D

[2tallbill]

****Warning Crazy Idea *** Warning Crazy Idea****
****Warning Crazy Idea *** Warning Crazy Idea****
****Warning Crazy Idea *** Warning Crazy Idea****
****Warning Crazy Idea *** Warning Crazy Idea****

Ok, next crazy Idea.

Annex Mexico, install Marshal law, tell them they are a territory of the United States, use the Oil revenue of their Nationalized Oil and Gas companies to fix their country instead of lining the corrupt pockets of a few.

Lease the Oil, Gas and other vast resources companies to the highest bidder. Sell the beach front property which will immediately go up tremendously in value.

Once a consistant and stable rule of law is in place and the vast national resouces are used efficiently by private companies not a big corrupt government, then market forces will create good jobs in Mexico and we will have to worry about our Southern border they will have to worry about their Southern border.

Will it ever happen?? No, but Mexico could be just like another California, with good jobs, good weather, nice beaches etc. It would work, which is why no politician will ever promote it.

Just my crazy two kopecks

Bill

[ScottinCrimea]

As it now stands, California is becoming just like another Mexico.

[Wayne B]

Scott, last year....I talked with a young Mexican man.....and in our conversation... He told me, that we will take Texas back....without ever firing one shot

[START2]

Have any of you seen this! A bit off topic but........
: Lesson from Australia

 

We should take a lesson from the Australians!

Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out ofAustralia, as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.
A day after a group of mainstream Muslim leaders pledged loyalty to Australia and her Queen at a special meeting with Prime Minister John Howard, he and his Ministers made it clear that extremists would face a crackdown. Treasurer Peter Costello, seen as heir apparent to Howard, hinted that some radical clerics could be asked to leave the country if they did not accept that Australia was a secular state, and its laws were made by parliament. "If those are not your values, if you want a country which has Sharia law or a theocratic state, then Australia is not for you", he said on National Television.
"I'd be saying to clerics who are teaching that there are two laws governing people inAustralia: one the Australian law and another Islamic law that is false. If you can't agree with parliamentary law, independent courts, democracy, and would prefer Sharia law and have the opportunity to go to another country, which practices it, perhaps, then, that's a better option", Costello said.

Asked whether he meant radical clerics would be forced to leave, he said those with dual citizenship could possibly be asked to move to the other country. Education Minister Brendan Nelson later told reporters that Muslims who did not want to accept local values should "clear off. Basically people who don't want to be Australians, and who don't want, to live by Australian values and understand them, well then, they can basically clear off", he said.
Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques.
Quote: "IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians."
"However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the 'politically correct' crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others. I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to Australia." "However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand." "This idea ofAustralia being a multi-cultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. And as Australians, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle."
"This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom"
"We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society . Learn the language!"
"Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture."
"We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us."
"If the Southern Cross offends you, or you don't like "A Fair Go", then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet. We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from. By all means, keep your culture, but do not force it on others.
"This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom,
'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'."
"If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted."

Maybe if we circulate this amongst ourselves, Canadian and American citizens will find the backbone to start speaking and voicing the same truths !

If you agree please SEND THIS TO EVERYBODY YOU

[ScottinCrimea]

Too bad US politicians don't have the balls to say something like this.

[I/O]

Regarding the comments of the Prime Minister and collegues, it is a fairly accurate reflection of how most Australians feel and think.

We offer every democratic right to any new commer and that includes the democratic right to vote with their feet by leaving and going some place else.  I would point out, just to single a couple of groups out, IE: The Italians and the Greeks who came in large numbers years back, they have fitted in, added to the culture and have generally become honorable citizens. The are very welcome.  We have learned much from them.  They came because they wanted too and were detirmined to do well.  Generally they have done very well within the framework of our laws and our culture.

Some of the other cultural and religious based people have not done so well and they probably never will because they waaaaaaaaaaay underestimate the fierce detirmination of the average seemingly laid back Aussie to retain our relaxed lifestyle.  We are not quite as laid back and relaxed as we appear to many.  You, whomever you are and wherever you come from will receive help from us, probably before many others will chip in, but there is a price to pay if you want that help and a new homeland.  That is "Fit in or eff off".  We reckon that it's a pretty good deal on offer for those who need help or sancutary.  Unfortunately a few dogooders don't see it that way. 

I/O

[Mamma D]

Our problem with the Illegal Latinos, is that they do not want or intend to stay here... They refuse to learn English, or become a part of our society. They have home and family in Mexico and further south....They want to come, and earn American dollars to send back south....

They are becoming more skilled, and are taking jobs that our workers have had for years in the building trades and other journeyman trades,.....for half pay, usually paid under the table and never reported.....

While they are often very skilled... they also have meager educational skills. In most other immigrants...the 1st generation is limited due to communication abilities. But the second generation will usually excel....These children have no wish to learn and few will graduate from High School and fewer still from University. They do utilize the Trade schools.

They have become a huge factor in Mexico's economy....and have left many American workers with no jobs....

Our people are being told to learn SPANISH.... to fit in!
We are rapidly becoming a bilingual nation... Good or Bad ... Who knows..? But tough on us older ones that do not have the learning abilities we once had!

[ScottinCrimea]

The trend I have seen with Mexicans, legal or illegal, is that the first generation comes in with a very strong work ethic. Unfortunately, they generally don't value education.  Many have told me that their parents have encouraged them to drop out of high school to work, especially the girls.  Their attitude is that any education beyond around the 8th grade is a waste of time and at that age it is more important to get out in the workforce and help to support their family.

Unfortunately, what you see with the second and third generations is that many lose this strong work ethic but hold onto the negative attitudes toward higher education.  So what you end up with is a lot of high school dropouts who don't know how to work hard.  This is one of the reasons why you see so many Hispanic youth in gangs.

[BillyB]

I can only surmise that BillyB and DKMM do not live in a region which has a lot of illegal immigrants.

In my State of Washington, some governmental forms come in 27 different languages for a reason. A few months ago I went to traffic court with a Ukrainian truck driver of mine. There were Hispanics, FSU citizens, Asians and court translators for everybody. I think there was only one guy that day, besides me, who spoke to the judge without a translator. Besides living and working on the farm with nothing but immigrants, I work next to them nearly everyday since landscaping follow my earthwork. You'd be lucky not to see a Mexican in a restaurant working here. They're everywhere in landscaping and the food industry. Guys from India has a monopoly on taxi service. There are immigrants from Somolia, FSU, Asia, and Iraq all over the place. Still there are not enough people to fill the jobs available. The labor union has put out all kinds of advertising for labors for months. But not many takers. I asked my Mexican employee if he knew any people who could work labor in the Summer since the company is very busy. He could not find any Mexican although they are all over the place. Before my trip to st. Pete, I stacked up to 200 90lb blocks a day for a retaining wall just because I was shorthanded. I'm not afraid to get my hands dirty.

I hear immigrants are taking jobs away from citizens but until I see unemployment go out of control, I don't believe it. These immigrants also tend to be less educated speaking less or no English and the demand for them in skilled trades are minimal. They continue to dominate the food and landscaping market harvesting and cooking your food and cutting your grass.

I also heard the argument that terrorists are crossing the Mexican border. The government knows the easiest way for terrorists to come to the US is to go to Europe and then be able to come here without a visa. Crossing the desert for days with a good chance in getting caught is not the brightest idea when they can easily and legally stay in the US as a European.

I'd like to comment in red on VDH's solutions in black for illegal immigration.

fine employers for hiring illegal aliens. They do fine and put out of business employers who hire legals for straight cash which are few employers who'd do that. Must employers unknowingly hire illegals.

actually build the approved fences. Why wait for the federal government to do it, the States could act on their own if it was so important to them. I talked to a Mexican the other day and I asked him what was the best way to cross the border successfully. He said if one had money, one could enlist the help of border agents at $5000 a person. They will tell you where the weakest links are and where to cross. What good will a fence do when it is just a speed bump and there are just enough border agents out there willing to help illegals find a hole in the border?

beef up the border patrolThere's only so much money to go around for law enforcement and I think it's better spent hunting murderers and rapists.

issue verifiable identification. Can anybody tell me what VERIFIABLE IDENTIFICATION is? I like to think I'm an expert at detecting counterfeit money, forged signatures and fake ID but no court of law will ever accept me as an expert witness. Nor will any court of law convict me for my lack of expertise in detecting this stuff as an employer. We could issue everyone a card with a computer chip in it and issue every business in the US a machine that could read it but there are always ways around the system. People have counterfeited those computer chip cards that give you the right to watch satellite TV. They get Satellite TV for free and get all channels as computer savvy programmers have unlocked the program in the authorized chips and inserted programs in new chips they bought overseas on a fake card

If the American public wants the border closed first, and discussion of everything else later, is that really such a bad thing? Congress don't work that way. If one congressman says he wants a highway to be built in his State first and then later talk about building a highway in other congressman's States, it won't fly. Each bill will have to have compromise from all sides. If a congressman wants to have stricter enforcement and walls, then he must give something to the congressmen who want to give out guest worker visas and have amnesty.

Billions in earnings would stay in the United States to help our own entry-level and legal immigrants from Mexico, not be sent back as remittances to relatives. Absolutely wrong. Legal Mexicans love their family as much as illegal Mexicans and will continue to send money home. If legal immigrants have no love for their family, I wouldn't want them here.

The basics is that LEGAL immigration helps our economy.  Illegal immigration does not.  I challenge you to show any proof that illegal immigrants give more to our economy then they take away.  We have seen numerous studies on this thread that show the costs of illegals, but not one that shows that it helps the economy.  So since you are so sure, please share the documentation that you have that shows otherwise.  I'm sorry, but to believe otherwise is just plain ignorance.

Scott, you'd be hard pressed to find the media put out a story of a happily married American man and immigrant woman but many are out there if you used common sense or researched on your own. You'd also find it difficult to find a story of all the contributions immigrants make. But nobody has to be ignorant but use common sense pertaining to this issue too. We know immigrants use false documents for work and put money in for social security but that is all is said by the media and your government but common sense will tell you they contribute more. If you work in America, look at your pay stubs. If you make about $22,000, you will give about $1300 to social security, $300 to Medicare, and $4000 to federal withholding. Also, the employer contributes taxes to the government for the employee. But unlike you, when the illegal immigrant is at retirement age, he will not collect SS and can't benefit from the Medicare. In some ways he's giving to the government more than you. The taxes he pays to the government just like you will pay for his kids education but most likely his kids will dropout and not maximizing on that benefit. But special agenda groups will swear up and down they are not contributing anything to education and costing the American taxpayer, not true.

There are actually few illegal immigrants who work for cash and that is because a tiny amout of companies and your next door neighbor is hiring them for cash to work and cut your grass. But with amnesty, these guys can start paying taxes too and have a real name and address to send their medical bills to. Even if it's true the argument is that wages of citizens are suppressed because of the illegal immigrant, but like Chinese, the illegal immigrant works cheap to improve every American's standard of living by keeping more money in your pocket, making it cheap to eat and saving your health so you don't have to break your back cleaning up the yard. They are your modern day slaves and like slaves from any era, they must eat and have their health looked after if they are ill.

  Look how many people complain about gas prices going up although we have some of the cheapest fuel in the world. Certainly people will complain if everything else goes up in price just a tad bit.

Illegal immigrants are here and won't go away. We need immigrants anyway as even Ron Paul agrees in the Youtube video earlier. Although Ron Paul may not agree while he's on the campaign trail, Amnesty is the best and cheapest solution for dealing with them.

[ScottinCrimea]

BillyB, You continue to ignore any and all studies and statistics, as well as the experience and opinions of the majority of the people in the US.  Sometime go visit one of the border states, talk to the people who are most affected by illegal immigration, and see what they think. They certainly dont' need statistics to see there is a problem, and You'll be hard pressed to find anyone who agrees with your ideas of a solution.

[TigerPaws]

BillyB,

 One fact which is indisputable is that the people we are talking about are ILLEGAL immigrants, they have knowingly committed a crime, if they are working in the U.S. for anything other than cash they have had to fill out documents stating they have a LEGAL right to work in the U.S. That is a CRIME in America today a FELONY so by definition these same people are CRIMINALS.

 Now you can argue that the laws need to be changed but for now these people have committed a number of very serious CRIMES against the United States of America and that fact is indisputable.

TigerPaws

[BC]

Many, if not all statistics I have seen include legal immigration in the form of 'anchor babies'.. at the rate of 300,000 a year.  See my upthread post.

So... the problem is only half as big as you think..

Feel better?

I don't know why, but political talk on this board seems exactly the same as what I see on CSPAN.. all jabbering about trying to fix things that can never be fixed, totally avoiding solutions that WILL have guaranteed positive results and can be implemented with a few pen strokes.

[William3rd]

It can be fixed-if we have the political will to do so. Strict enforcement of IRCA would be nice for a start.

However, since illegal immigration is only one issue of many that we look at when we elect our "representative" the likelihood of the problem being solved is pretty low

[Kuna]

Have any of you seen this! A bit off topic but........
: Lesson from Australia

 

We should take a lesson from the Australians!

Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia, as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.
A day after a group of mainstream Muslim leaders pledged loyalty to Australia and her Queen at a special meeting with Prime Minister John Howard, he and his Ministers made it clear that extremists would face a crackdown. Treasurer Peter Costello, seen as heir apparent to Howard, hinted that some radical clerics could be asked to leave the country if they did not accept that Australia was a secular state, and its laws were made by parliament. "If those are not your values, if you want a country which has Sharia law or a theocratic state, then Australia is not for you", he said on National Television.
"I'd be saying to clerics who are teaching that there are two laws governing people inAustralia: one the Australian law and another Islamic law that is false. If you can't agree with parliamentary law, independent courts, democracy, and would prefer Sharia law and have the opportunity to go to another country, which practices it, perhaps, then, that's a better option", Costello said.

Asked whether he meant radical clerics would be forced to leave, he said those with dual citizenship could possibly be asked to move to the other country. Education Minister Brendan Nelson later told reporters that Muslims who did not want to accept local values should "clear off. Basically people who don't want to be Australians, and who don't want, to live by Australian values and understand them, well then, they can basically clear off", he said.
Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques.
Quote: "IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians."
"However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the 'politically correct' crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others. I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to Australia." "However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand." "This idea ofAustralia being a multi-cultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. And as Australians, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle."
"This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom"
"We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society . Learn the language!"
"Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture."
"We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us."
"If the Southern Cross offends you, or you don't like "A Fair Go", then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet. We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from. By all means, keep your culture, but do not force it on others.
"This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom,
'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'."
"If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted."

Maybe if we circulate this amongst ourselves, Canadian and American citizens will find the backbone to start speaking and voicing the same truths !

If you agree please SEND THIS TO EVERYBODY YOU

Start2,

As I/O said the article you posted above is very much the attitude of MOST Australians and our PM and other senior conservative politicians have taken a stand on immigration that is very unpopular with the "bleeding hearts".

We had a problem with illegal immigrants entering Australia on boats from Asia. You should have heard the bleeding hearts when our Government responded to that threat.

What the government did was set up arrangements with the small Pacific Island nation of Nauru.  The deal??? The Australian Patrol boats would take the illegals to Nauru instead of bringing them to Australia because once here, they had to give them legal resources to fight for the right to stay through the courts. 

This went on for YEARS at times and then the bleeding hearts would demand they let them out into the community because it was inhumane to lock them up.

The Nauru solution meant our government would pay to have them kept, fed and clothed while the GENUINE refugees were identified.  All others were flown back to their nation of origin and the genuine refugees got to stay. 

Guess what???  When the illegals realised they wouldn't get in (not even to the detention centres in Australia) the boats virtually stopped coming. 

By the way...  per capita Australia has the highest intake of refugees in the world...  BUT our current government won't stand for illegals.  We have an election coming up and MANY things may change by the end of the year...   

[ecr844]

Here's an example of what can happen when the current laws are 'unenforced'...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,289165,00.html

Even if it happens 1x, that's too many.

Illegal Immigrant Sex Offender Held in Murder of Kidnapped Tacoma, Wash., Girl
Friday, July 13, 2007

TACOMA, Wash.  —  A 42-year-old convicted sex offender from Thailand who entered the U.S. illegally was being questioned by police Friday after he provided information that led to the discovery of the body of 12-year-old Zina Linnik, who police believe was kidnapped July 4 while watching a fireworks display.

Terapon Adhahn, who was convicted of incest in 1990, was being held for questioning, Tacoma Police Chief Don Ramsdell said. Adhahn, who lists a Parkland, Wash., address, was being held by federal immigration officials on a charge unrelated to Linnik's apparent abduction.

“Our hearts and prayers are with the Linnik family and we will continue to put forth our best efforts to bring the perpetrator of this senseless and horrific crime to justice,” Ramsdell said at a brief and hastily arranged news conference Thursday night outside Tacoma Police Headquarters.

Ramsdell did not specify where Zina was found, saying only that it was “within Pierce County.”

Tacoma Police Detective Chris Taylor said the girl’s body was discovered at about 6 p.m. PDT, about the same time a meeting was taking place to organize a neighborhood search of Tacoma's Hilltop area, near where the girl last was seen at 9:45 p.m. on July 4 in the alley near her family’s home.


Person of Interest Held in Case of Missing Washington 12-Year-Old Girl Police:
Washington 12-Year-Old May Have Been Abducted Washington Police Issue Amber Alert for 12-Year-Old Girl Police and FBI officials said Adhahn is a convicted sex offender and is charged with failing to register. He has denied having anything to do with the girl's disappearance.

Immigration and Customs Enforcement officials said Adhahn's 1990 conviction of first-degree incest is the basis for his detention, which should have led to the man’s deportation.

But a search by FOXNews.com of the state's voter registration records shows that Adhahn registered in 2002, and his registration was current.

Court documents state he underwent court-ordered psychological evaluation and was diagnosed with pedophilia as part of the case, the Tacoma News Tribune reported.

The newspaper reported that investigators conducted a search of Adhahn's home on Sunday and Monday and removed items, including a gray van.

Witnesses reported seeing a gray van in the alley near Linnik's home immediately before she vanished.

Search warrant records also list “girl’s undergarments” removed from Adhahn's apartment, the newspaper reported.

Police reportedly located Adhahn by running a computer check of his van, and it matched the color and model, and the license plate number fit the partial description of a vehicle that Linnik’s father told police he saw driving out of the alley the night she disappeared, the newspaper reported. The father told police he heard a scream just before he saw the van speed away, police told the paper.

Adhahn told police his original plates had been stolen months earlier, and that the ones on his van were stolen.

Adhahn came from Thailand to the United States in 1977 and later enlisted in the Army, the newspaper reported.

The news that Linnik's body was found brought "great anguish" to her family as well as Tacoma police and FBI agents who had worked to find the girl, Ramsdell said.

"Our hearts and prayers are with the Linnik family and we will continue to put forth our best efforts to bring the perpetrator of this senseless and horrific crime to justice," Ramsdell said.

There was no immediate word on the cause of death or when the girl died.

[ScottinCrimea]

I think anyone who favors illegal immigration and granting them amnesty would do a 180 degree turn in attitude if this was their daughter, even someone so firm in their beliefs as BillyB.  Here is a case where, if the borders had been closed and immigration law properly enforced, this child would be alive today.  Is it worth the cost of even one innocent life?

If anyone pops up and says, "Hey if it hadn't been an illegal, it would have been someone else" they should be banned from the forum.

[ecr844]

Here are some stats directly from the White House

Fact Sheet: Acting This Year to Pass Comprehensive Immigration Reform
President Bush Discusses Progress Securing Our Border And Outlines Five Objectives For Comprehensive Immigration Reform


  White House News
  En Español
 

      President Bush Discusses Comprehensive Immigration Reform in Yuma, Arizona


Today, President Bush Toured The Yuma Sector Of The Border In Arizona And Made Remarks On Comprehensive Immigration Reform. In May 2006, President Bush visited the Yuma Sector Border and announced Operation Jump Start, under which up to 6,000 National Guard troops have been deployed to the Southern border to complement the work of the Border Patrol. Today, President Bush checked on progress in securing the Yuma Sector Border and dedicated the new Yuma Border Patrol Station.

The President Called On Congress To Act This Year To Pass Comprehensive Immigration Reform That He Can Sign Into Law. Our Nation deserves an immigration system that secures our borders and honors our proud history as a Nation of immigrants. There is a desire on the part of Republicans and Democrats alike to get this problem solved, and by working together, we can enact comprehensive immigration reform into law this year.


The Lessons Of Past Experience Is Clear: All Elements Of This Issue Must Be Addressed Together – Or None Of Them Will Be Solved At All. Illegal immigration is a serious problem that has been growing for decades. Past efforts to address it have failed because they did not do enough to secure our Nation's borders, failed to address the underlying economic reasons behind illegal immigration, and failed to provide sensible ways for employers to verify the legal status of the workers who they hire.


Thanks To The Coordinated Efforts Of The Border Patrol And National Guard Members Deployed Under Operation Jump Start And Other Enforcement Efforts, Illegal Border Crossings In The Yuma Sector Are Down. More than 600 National Guard members are serving at the Yuma Sector as part of Operation Jump Start. In the months before Operation Jump Start, an average of more than 400 people a day were apprehended trying to cross the Yuma Sector Border. That number has dropped to fewer than 140 a day since the start of the operation.
Comprehensive Immigration Reform Must Accomplish Five Clear Objectives

1. Securing The Border

Securing The Border Is A Critical Part Of Our Strategy For Comprehensive Immigration Reform, And We Are Increasing Manpower And Improving Infrastructure And Technology At The Border. Since the President took office in 2001, we have more than doubled funding for border security – from $4.6 billion in 2001 to $10.4 billion in 2007. We have expanded the Border Patrol from about 9,000 agents in 2001 to about 13,000 agents today. By the end of 2008, we will have a total of more than 18,000 agents, doubling the size of the Border Patrol under the President's leadership.

Under Operation Jump Start, National Guard Members Are Supporting The Border Patrol In Texas, California, Arizona, And New Mexico. As we work to complete upgrades at the border, Operation Jump Start is providing the Border Patrol with immediate reinforcements. National Guard Troops deployed under Operation Jump Start are assisting the Border Patrol with surveillance, intelligence, construction, and logistics.

Operation Jump Start Has Put More Manpower On The Border And Allowed The Border Patrol To Move 563 Agents Into Front-Line Positions. The number of people apprehended for illegally crossing our Southern border is down by nearly 30 percent in 2007 from this point in 2006.
We Have Effectively Ended The Practice Of "Catch And Release" For Every Non-Mexican Apprehended At The Southern Border. More than 85 percent of the illegal immigrants caught crossing the Southern border are Mexicans, and virtually all are sent back home within 24 hours. For years, however, most apprehended non-Mexican illegal immigrants were released back into society on this side of the border – with a notice to appear at a future court date – because the government did not have enough detention space to hold them. The President believes this practice is unacceptable, and we have effectively ended it for every non-Mexican apprehended at the Southern border.

We Have Added Thousands Of New Beds At Detention Centers Across The Country. Since the President took office, we have provided funding for 7,798 new beds to accommodate apprehended illegal immigrants – a 40 percent increase over 2001.


We Have Expedited The Legal Process To Cut The Average Deportation Time. We are also making it clear to foreign governments that they must accept back their citizens who violate U.S. immigration laws.
2. Creating A Temporary Worker Program

We Cannot Fully Secure The Border Unless We Take Pressure Off The Border – And That Requires A Temporary Worker Program. By creating a lawful and orderly channel for foreign workers to come to America on a temporary basis, a temporary worker program would help reduce the number of people trying to sneak past the Border Patrol, freeing agents to focus on apprehending violent criminals and terrorists who pose a threat to our security.

3. Holding Employers Accountable For The Workers They Hire

Enforcing Immigration Laws At The Worksite Is A Vital Part Of Any Successful Reform. We are cracking down on employers who knowingly violate the law. To make worksite enforcement practical on a large scale, the President has called for the creation of a tamper-proof identification card for legal foreign workers and a better system for businesses to verify the legal status of their workers. By taking these steps, we will make it easier for businesses to obey the law – and leave them no excuse for violating it.

4. Resolving The Status Of The Millions Of Illegal Immigrants Already In The Country

The Administration Is Working With Democrats And Republicans To Find A Practical Answer That Lies Between Granting Automatic American Citizenship To Every Illegal Immigrant And Deporting Every Illegal Immigrant.

The President Opposes Amnesty. Amnesty is the forgiveness of an offense without penalty. It should not be given to people who entered our country illegally.


Illegal Immigrants Who Have Roots In Our Country And Want To Stay Should Have To Pay A Meaningful Penalty For Breaking The Law, Pay Their Taxes, Learn English, And Work In A Job For A Number Of Years. People who meet a reasonable number of conditions and pay a penalty of time and money should be able to apply for citizenship, but approval would not be automatic, and they will have to wait in line behind those who played by the rules and followed the law.
5. Finding New Ways To Help Newcomers Assimilate Into Our Society

We Will Honor The American Tradition Of The Melting Pot And Help Immigrants Assimilate By Learning Our History, Our Values, And The English Language.

Last June, The President Created The Task Force On New Americans To Look For Ways To Help Newcomers Assimilate And Succeed In Our Country. Many organizations, from churches to businesses to civic associations, are already working to answer this call.

Enforcement works....

Here is a related link to the below: http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/newsroom/news_releases/07072007.xml

If you want to get an idea of what is coming across your borders...

http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/newsroom/news_releases/

Border Patrol Turns to 'Virtual Wall'
Thursday, April 26, 2007

By JULIE WATSON, Associated Press Writer

MEXICO CITY —  A high-tech "virtual wall" will detect more than 95 percent of illegal crossings at the busiest jumping-off point along the U.S.-Mexico border, the U.S. Border Patrol chief said Thursday.

In a videoconference with reporters in Mexico, David Aguilar predicted the so-called "virtual wall" of lights, ground sensors and cameras _ reinforced by more agents _ will essentially halt illegal crossings along the Arizona border, the busiest section for clandestine entries.

Officials expect to complete 28 miles of the high-tech system in Arizona by June, and by next year it should run into New Mexico and parts of Texas.

Eventually, the integrated system will cover sections along the entire border, from San Diego to Brownsville, Texas.

"We will be able to identify, detect and classify more than 95 percent of illegal entries with the virtual wall," Aguilar said.

Detentions along the U.S.-Mexico border already have dropped by 30 percent from October 2006 to this week, compared to the same period last year, Aguilar said _ a reduction officials attribute to fewer attempted crossings. In 2006, 1.1 million migrants were detained.

He attributed the fall to President Bush's deployment of 6,000 National Guard troops to the border, the addition of more than 700 Border Patrol agents this fiscal year and new strategies.

Along a 210-mile stretch in west Texas, detentions have dropped 65 percent since the start of a federal project called Operation Streamline, which jails and prosecutes any illegal immigrant caught crossing there.

Aguilar said far fewer immigrants have been seen at traditional staging points in Mexico and that agents have not seen a shift to new crossing areas along the border.

Congress has approved 700 miles of fence for the border and has allowed officials to decide whether to build metal fences or virtual walls.

Aguilar expects most of the distance will be covered by the virtual barrier, with metal walls kept to a minimum.

The U.S. government is adding 70 miles of metal walls this year and 225 miles next year. The barriers are being built primarily in Arizona, which has seen the largest flow of illegal migrants since a U.S. crackdown in Texas and California more than a decade ago funneled people into its remote desert.

Mexican President Felipe Calderon has likened the barriers to the Berlin Wall.

Copyright 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

No one left to work the farms...It seems CO. hass found a solution.

Colo. May Put Inmates to Work on Farms
Wednesday, March 07, 2007

By CHASE SQUIRES, Associated Press Writer

VINELAND, Colo. —  Farmer Phil Prutch isn't sure about putting Colorado convicts to work in his fields this summer. But then again, he says, he doesn't have much of a choice.

Somebody has to pick the crops. Prutch has 15 acres of rotting peppers to show what happens if someone doesn't.

Faced with a severe shortage of migrant farmworkers that many blame on Colorado's crackdown on illegal immigrants, state officials are considering an experimental program that could have prisoners laboring on a half-dozen farms by May.

The idea has horrified some activists, who see it as a return to the plantation system.

"It's just chain gangs and slave labor. It's been tried before," said Ricardo Martinez, co-director of Denver-based Padres Unidos, an immigrant rights organization. "It's not like there's mental giants at the state Capitol developing solutions here."

Colorado has enacted one of the nation's toughest crackdowns on illegal immigrants, denying most nonessential services to people in the country illegally, requiring more identification to get driver's licenses, and putting pressure on state and local law enforcement officers to cooperate with federal immigration agents.


Normally, perhaps 10,000 migrant farmworkers _ some legal, some illegal _ come through Colorado each year, planting, cultivating and harvesting such crops as onions, peppers, melons and pumpkins, said Larry Gallegos, an advocate for farmworkers in the state Labor Department. But he predicted their numbers will be down as much as 40 percent this year.

Prutch, like other small farmers, said the labor shortage is dire. The five to 20 migrant workers he and his family typically counted on for decades have disappeared, and his peppers went unharvested last fall because he couldn't find anyone to pick them.

"Our problem in Colorado is we chased them off," said Prutch, who farms 250 acres. "Legal or illegal, we made them feel unwanted. These people just want to work."

Migrant farmworkers in Colorado are typically paid $8 to $9 an hour. Under a plan under consideration by prison and agricultural officials, farmers would pay the state an hourly wage _ $10 is one rate under discussion _ for each inmate.

The inmates would get the state's standard 60-cents-a-day credit for prison labor, while the rest of the money would go toward their housing, food, transportation and guards while they are working.

Some worry that many convicts are city dwellers who lack the know-how to work on a farm and are unaccustomed to the backbreaking work. Prutch, for one, said he fears he will constantly have to train convicts how to recognize a ripe pepper, how to distinguish a pepper plant from a weed, and how to wield a hoe without damaging the roots.

State prison officials say the program could help inmates learn a trade, practice teamwork and develop a work ethic that will help them return to society. It would be open strictly to low-risk, minimum-security inmates who volunteer.

"We're very excited about it," Corrections Department spokeswoman Alison Morgan said. "We probably have 4,300 to 4,500 inmates who would qualify for this."

Colorado inmates already work at a dairy that provides all of the milk for the prison system, and build furniture, tame mustangs and export farm-grown fish. But those enterprises are run by the state or nonprofit organizations. This would be the first time Colorado convicts have been put to work for private businesses, Morgan said.

In Arizona, state inmates have been working on private farms for more than a decade. Arizona egg farmer Clint Hickman said he is thrilled with the program, which delivers up to 50 inmates a day to work for him. He said he would jump at a chance to hire inmates to work at an egg farm his family just bought in Colorado.

Austin Perez of the National Farm Bureau said the farmworker shortage is nationwide as the government cracks down on immigration. Both legal and illegal immigrants find it easier to land steady jobs in landscaping or construction than take a chance traveling from state to state with the growing seasons, he said.

"We can't replace those people. People may think it's unskilled labor, but it's not unskilled," he said. "Get up on a ladder 20 feet in the air to pick apples or stay up all night calving, to help a dairy cow give birth, it is not unskilled."

Prutch he worries not only about the cost and the need for training, but the possibility that the inmates might be casing his place to rob it someday. But he said he will take any help he can get, and suggested the publicity might force lawmakers to come up with a guest worker program so he can get his skilled crews back.

"Probably the farmers are more skeptical about this than anybody. We're skeptical about everything," he said. "No way is it going to fix the problem. It might not even be a Band-Aid."

Copyright 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

Food for thought....
ecr844

[BC]

Here's an example of what can happen when the current laws are 'unenforced'...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,289165,00.html

Even if it happens 1x, that's too many.

Sad.. a nightmare for any family.

I was a bit 'miffed' reading:

Adhahn came from Thailand to U.S. in 1977, and later enlisted in the Army, the newspaper reported.

How is this possible?

Would half a trillion dollars (cost of war in Iraq) help physically secure the borders?  Heck 2000 miles at 5 million per mile is only 10 Billion if my math is correct..  Wire the Canadian border as well!..

Something just ain't quite 'right'.. We're raising hell thousands of miles from home when a terrorist only has to walk a mile or two.
 

[ecr844]

I think anyone who favors illegal immigration and granting them amnesty would do a 180 degree turn in attitude if this was their daughter, even someone so firm in their beliefs as BillyB.  Here is a case where, if the borders had been closed and immigration law properly enforced, this child would be alive today.  Is it worth the cost of even one innocent life?

If anyone pops up and says, "Hey if it hadn't been an illegal, it would have been someone else" they should be banned from the forum.

Now I have a question for the legal experts here. Is the govt legaly and civilly culpable for failure to deport this individual, especially since there is a clear trail of information where they knew he was here illegally?

ECR844

[Sohkay]

But you see, the central argument of those favoring letting illegals stay is...jobs, jobs, jobs and money, money, money. "Oh my gosh, what will it do to the economy if we send the illegals back", Chicken Little clucked?

In reality, we would survive.

And so would have one more child.

[ecr844]

But you see, the central argument of those favoring letting illegals stay is...jobs, jobs, jobs and money, money, money. "Oh my gosh, what will it do to the economy if we send the illegals back", Chicken Little clucked?

In reality, we would survive.

And so would have one more child.

"sohkay,"

If you take alook at one of the articles I posted above we could just as easily use inmates to work the farms or those on 'welfare' etc... There are plenty of people already here able to do the work.

Here are some more statistics from on of the more sucessful enforcement initiatives:

Congressmen praise Border Patrol 'Operation Streamline' initiative

July 7, 2007
By Bill Sontag
Feature Writer

“We’ve been able to see ‘Streamline’ at work here, and it’s just a great model we need to put to use everywhere.” U.S. Rep. David Price (D-North Carolina 4th District), chairman of the House of Representatives’ Homeland Security Subcommittee, was effusive, Friday (July 6), in his praise for the U.S. Customs and Border Protection agency’s “Operation Streamline.”

The thus-far highly effective measure for detaining, prosecuting and deporting or incarcerating captured illegal immigrants was born here in the Del Rio Sector of the U.S. Border Patrol, and Chief Patrol Agent Randy Hill is unabashedly proud of its effectiveness. Streamline is aimed at “other than Mexican (OTM)” immigrants who cross into the United States illegally, expecting – hoping, really – to be apprehended and turned loose after perfunctory paperwork processing.

Until Operation Streamline came along, government officials asserted that deportation to Central- and South American origins – and even to other continents – was too expensive, while Mexican immigrants were simply returned to the border they had crossed and sent packing across bridges and highways back into their homeland. Border Patrol agents detested their new roles in this period, as well as the OTM immigrants’ nose-thumbing understanding of it as a “catch-and-release” avenue to an unearned slice of the American pie.



U.S. Border Patrol Chief Patrol Agent Randy Hill focuses attention on inter-agency cooperation to reduce smuggling of drugs and other contraband, now that a tide of illegal immigration by “other than Mexicans” has been slowed by the deployment of “Operation Streamline,” now being lauded as a model for other borderland sectors. (LIVE! photo/Bill Sontag)
click to enlargeBut, on December 6, 2005, that “golden door,” immortalized by Emma Lazarus in homage to the Statue of Liberty, closed just a bit as Operation Streamline got underway, and in Fiscal Year 2005-2006, OTM immigration dropped 38 percent. Already, in FY 2006-2007, Hill told LIVE! (June 19), OTM captures have dropped another 52 percent. Friday, a trio of congressmen descended on Del Rio for their first-hand look at border problems and solutions in practice, both of which have become part of the daily diet on the legislative menu of Washington lawmakers.

Price was accompanied Friday by U.S. Rep. Ciro D. Rodriguez, (D-Texas 23rd District), and U.S. Rep. John Culberson (R-Texas 7th District), all determined to visit the Texas/Mexico border to personally observe the challenges, attempts and successes of stemming illegal immigration. In Del Rio, the entourage spent time with Hill at the Del Rio Sector headquarters, 2401 Dodson Avenue, and at the International Bridge and Del Rio Port-of-Entry with Port Director Mike Perez.

For lunch, the congressmen met at Memo’s Restaurant for a closed-door confab with local politicians, law enforcement officials, judges, and borderland landowners. Price and Rodriguez each affirmed that the landowners – ranchers and residents – gave excellent presentations about the importance of controlling immigration without the heavy-handed approach of a “wall” between the two countries.

Valdez told LIVE! that local rancher Bill Moody expressed great concern about the proposed “border wall” or fence, already authorized by Congress to theoretically stem the tide of illegal immigration. In the private meeting, according to Valdez, Moody told the congressmen that a wall would “really damage his ranch” stretching 32 miles along the Rio Grande for livestock production and wildlife habitat. “He told them a wall would just ruin his ranch, and that he would do everything to prevent a fence being built on his property,” Valdez said.

Valdez pointed out that three federal judges, Alia Moses Ludlum, Dennis Green and Victor Garcia, all participating in expedited adjudications under Operation Streamline, told the congressmen that the program is working, and that local input on any initiatives to stem illegal immigration must be considered. “I think this was a very good meeting,” Valdez said, “because we had the judges, elected officials, landowners, and law enforcement officials, and this was the first time the congressmen had heard from this kind of group,” said Valdez.

Rodriguez agreed, as the group emerged from the private dining room at Memo’s, explaining that “the chairman” (Price) hears about the importance of defense and homeland security across the nation, but that he’s now hearing a different perspective from Texans on how and what’s necessary to achieve it.

But the congressmen hold divergent views on the immigration bill that a 46 “nay” vote to 53 “yeas” defeated in the U.S. Senate recently. On the day of the compromise bill’s demise, June 28, Culberson said (in a press release issued by his office), “Helping to stop this dangerous and destructive amnesty bill will rank as one of the most important things I will ever do in Congress.”

Rodriguez told LIVE! Friday, “We’re going to continue to push it, but I don’t know whether it’s going to happen or not.” He reiterated the importance of halting illegal immigration, but said of legislation to that end, “We’re not going to hear the last of it, because it’s a critical issue.” Price was less optimistic. When asked if there is a chance to revitalize the immigration bill, Price replied, “Not right now.”



U.S. Rep. Ciro D. Rodriguez opened his Del Rio office nearly two months ago in the historic jail annex of the Val Verde County Courthouse, amidst justice of the peace offices. Field Representative Ginette Magaña, center, staffs the office. Here, Magaña is flanked by Rodriguez’s Washington office legislative director, René Muñoz, left, and Fort Stockton Field Representative César Blanco. The Del Rio field office, 209 E. Losoya St., can also be reached by calling 830-774-5500. (LIVE! photo/Bill Sontag)
click to enlargeFor now, Hill pushes for continued congressional support of Operation Streamline, citing a host of statistics along the 493 miles of “exposed” border in which the thrust was implemented, his 59,000-square-mile sector. “That area was being overrun by Salvadorans [OTMs from El Salvador],” Hill said. El Salvador (The Savior) is a Central American country about the size of Massachusetts with a population of 6.9 million, the most densely populated nation on this continent. “The issue was where to detain them all in centers that could accommodate,” Hill said.

In the absence of such detainment space, the OTMs were released, confounding the northward influx when word of such leniency got back to the homelands. Now that federal judges, prosecutors, and public defender attorneys have stepped up to the plate to process arrested illegal immigrants, federal laws are being enforced, including misdemeanor charges for first offenses and felony indictments for second offenses.

By May 2006, the White House and Department of Homeland Security Secretary Michael Cherthoff were aware of Operation Streamline, and received daily briefings. “I certainly appreciate them supporting the operation in that regard,” Hill said. “They were seeing Streamline as an example of how operations should be conducted here on the border.”

Hill’s sector is divided into 53 “border zones,” and by June 26, 2006, all were operating under the Streamline procedures. “We had some pretty interesting reactions [from OTMs] when they found out they were going to jail,” Hill said. Hill praises the unprecedented backing from all agencies involved, including the U.S. Marshals Service, the U.S. Attorney’s office, the Customs and Border Protection attorneys’ district office in Houston, and the federal courts system.

Still, Hill chalks up manpower investments of his agents’ appearances in court, transportation of detainees, prosecutions, alien property management (items taken from detainees for safekeeping), court details for security, clerical assistance and other tasks. “It’s a good investment for the community, because it reduces crimes of the transient population in the area,” Hill said, adding that Val Verde County Sheriff A. D’Wayne Jernigan reports a 76 percent drop in major crime in the county.

Hill calls attention to drug and contraband interdiction initiatives here, thanks in part to agents freed up by Operation Streamline from apprehensions among a flood of illegal immigrants. “The Lake Task Force, for example, is a really great success story,” Hill said. His thrust toward interagency cooperation is paramount in this effort to reduce waterborne drug traffic on Lake Amistad. Hill cites an alphabet soup of strategic and logistical collaboration involving Customs and Border Protection (CBP), Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA), National Park Service (NPS), Val Verde County Sheriff’s Office (VVSO), the Texas Department of Public Safety (DPS), and the Texas Parks & Wildlife Department (TP&WD).

“All these agencies got together and agreed that there needed to be a major effort on the lake … We’ve apprehended some narcotics, and I think we’ve prevented [transportation of] much more,” Hill said. He’s added to his fleet to increase the chances of running down fleeing traffickers, including high-speed boats, helicopters on call for quick response, “And an unmarked boat we use to just blend into the crowd.”

Hill doubtless appreciates the comments of the visiting legislators, but local support is felt and acknowledged daily. “Del Rio has been a Border Patrol town since 1924,” Hill said, adding, “There are huge numbers of Border Patrol retirees living here, so there’s always a lot of interest in what’s going on.”

The efforts to find and detain illegal border crossers are undiminished, but Hill expects the encouraging statistics of apprehensions and prosecutions to level off. In part, it’s because the word has spread south to Central and South America that the certainty of release into an American population, increasingly vexed by immigration that seems to be spiraling out of control, has narrowed. “And this is our slow time, anyway, because of the heat,” Hill said.

But, in addition to a reduction of OTM crossings, Hill believes Operation Streamline has significantly slowed the importation of drugs into the Del Rio Sector. In 2005, agents dealt with human traffic and seizures of 51,330 pounds of marijuana, and 400 pounds of cocaine. In 2006, the “take” was down to 20,000 pounds of marijuana, and 10 pounds of coke. Hill commands 900 uniformed agents now, and expects another 100 reporting as graduates of Federal Law Enforcement Training Centers soon.

ECR844