What kind of immigration bill would you support?

[DKMM]

The birth rate in Mexico is 2.39 children per woman and its slowly falling to the same level as america's 2.1.  So where are the extra 100 million hispanics going to come from Eric?  

[ecr844]

The birth rate in Mexico is 2.39 children per woman and its slowly falling to the same level as america's 2.1.  So where are the extra 100 million hispanics going to come from Eric?  

I have no idea what the population and or reproduction rates of Mexico are. So not having done any research or having any valid sources to look at in front of me. Couldn't tell you. In short I don't know. But thanks for asking "DKMM," why don't you enlighten me. Oh and FYI, why are we just counting MEXICO. Seems to me the majority of these folks are coming from THROUGHOUT CENTRAL AND SOUTH AMERICA. So are you telling me there is not a 100 million or so people in ALL OF THIS LAND AREA?

Thanks,
ECR844

[BillyB]

Good grief erc844, this is not rocket science and if you think I'm making up numbers, go to the CIA factbook or google to prove me wrong. DKMM is correct in his numbers. Do your own research and study trends and maybe, just maybe you won't get so worked up from what you read in the media. Do you know how the media portray men who seek foreign wives? Yes, there are people who would attack and label you with no mercy just as you have attacked immigrants. Most immigrants aren't commiting crimes, and doing drugs and smoking weed like Al Gore's son. They go to work, go home, feed their family love their kids and repeat. The media does not report that because they need stories that shock their readers/viewers.

[ecr844]

You're right "BillyB,". I'm not all that smart. One of the thing I am though is observant.

So let's see. Here's a great example. At one of the major televised 'citizenship pro-make me a citizen rallies' show casing large numbers of 'illegals...errr...guest workers' what did we all see? Were there American flags, and peaceful, well organized, LEGAL protests in english or any other language about how they all want and wish to be productive AMERICANS who are willing to ASSIMILATE to their homeland?

NO

What we saw was any number of Central and South American
flags, UNLAWFUL VIOLENT protesting, and a number of miltant slogans and their desire to spread hatred all the while DEMANDING that they be allowed to stay. Yeah, that's who I want living next door. That's pretty telling don't you think "BillyB,"? Do you think it's a coincidence that militant islam is on the rise in Central and South America? Hmm, and that Hugo Chavez guy he was just joking when he called your democratically elected president SATAN? Why not traaveel to Venezewalea BillyB," and make statemnts like that and see what type of 'justice and equal opportunity' you recieve. Wait, he just wants to be our friend, right? Oh and its just talk after all...he didn't mean it. I'm sure there are people that actually believe that to.

ECR844



 

[ecr844]

Do you know how the media portray men who seek foreign wives? Yes, there are people who would attack and label you with no mercy just as you have attacked immigrants. Most immigrants aren't commiting crimes, and doing drugs and smoking weed like Al Gore's son. They go to work, go home, feed their family love their kids and repeat. The media does not report that because they need stories that shock their readers/viewers.

Let's be clear here for a second "Billy," as obviously you miscomprehended some of the things I have written in this thread. I have nothing against LEGAL immigrants. As a matter of fact I embrase and support that concept. So much so that I have started down the path which will ultimately end with me helping my <at the time wife or fiancee> to come here. How, that's right LEGALLY. Just like you're doing. Additionally like most other americans I've had various relatives at various times in my families long history who have LEGALLY IMMIGRATED here. So I think you've made a false statement above which is TACICTLY UNTRUE. I just hope your able to at least acknowledge that you were wrong, and maybe even apologize.

As far as the media. If I am reading your statement above and comprehending it correctly. I'm not a rocket scientist after all. Is it your position that the media is on the majority biased AGAINST ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION? I think the facts would show exactly the OPPOSITE, that they are biased IN FAVOR of the illegal immigrants.

Also, on one thing I definately agree with you that the majority of LEGAL 'immigrants' are hard working and law abiding, etc... Great people all around and our country is all the better for it.

[DKMM]

When I was in high school (11 years ago) I worked a crappy fast food job.  Quite a few of my coworkers were illegals from Mexico and FSU of all places.  Oh wait, the Ukrainians were asylum seekers so I guess they were legit.  In any case, the illegals were the hardest workers, followed by the natives and lastly the Ukrainians and Russians. 

I do wonder if they were legallized would the Mexicans get lazy or are they just hard workers in general.  One things for sure, they are the lifeblood of our economy and if we actually kicked out the illegals as opposed to finding a way they could stay, we would suffer a major recession.

[Muj]

Fast food a lifeblood

[DKMM]

Yup, I did it for 3 years!  That's how I got my start...

[Mir]

Do you think it's a coincidence that militant Islam is on the rise in Central and South America?

I never thought there was any Islam in South America

I did hear that in South America people celebrated 9/11 attacks much more then in the Muslim word but I am certain they were not Muslims.

[TigerPaws]

 Most immigrants are not committing crimes, and doing drugs and smoking weed like Al Gore's son. They go to work, go home, feed their family love their kids and repeat. The media does not report that because they need stories that shock their readers/viewers.

While most immigrants do not or have not committed or are committing crimes, ILLEGAL immigrants have committed several serious crimes, so a point of FACT ANYONE who is in the U.S.A ILLEGALLY has committed at least one crime and most likely several felony's. They are by ANY definition CRIMINALS.

Sense when it is the responsibility of the American people to provide jobs, free medical care and education to those who have entered our country ILLEGALLY?

TigerPaws

[jb]

Nor do I think it is incumbent upon the US justice system to guarantee the same rights for illegals as citizens under the Constitution.  IOW, there should be no due process for criminal acts.  If they get caught, they should go directly to jail while they await deportation.  I can already hear the liberals whine about unfair treatment for women and children, but somewhere we have to draw a line; a line that says if you come here without legally applying for the visa, there are, and will be, severe consequences.

[Jet]

Nor do I think it is incumbent upon the US justice system to guarantee the same rights for illegals as citizens under the Constitution. 

Yeah, sadly this position has been argued and lost before as the wording of the constitution is ambiguous enough so as to guarantee certain rights to all those standing on US soil without regard to how they got there.

One things for sure, they are the lifeblood of our economy and if we actually kicked out the illegals as opposed to finding a way they could stay, we would suffer a major recession.

Now you're just pulling stuff out of your @$$ 

I hear over and over how these illegals are "taking jobs Americans don't want to do". BULL! They are taking jobs Americans don't want to do for minimum wage or less. I wrote earlier about what I once did for a living, I stuck with it for a while even as pay decreased. Once it became apparent that flipping burgers was soon going to pay better than skilled carpentry (and you didn't need to drag 5-10 thousand dollars worth of tools around to flip burgers) I looked for other opportunities where pay was commensurate with my skills/experience.

With ANY nationality you'll have those who are "go-getters" and those who are not. You happened to see a lot of motived Mexicans, that's great, but just because you don't see the lazy ones does not mean they don't exist. You don't see a lot of "trailer trash" white welfare mothers hanging out on corporate boardrooms, but that doesn't mean there are none in this country. I just haven't seen anything credible that pointed to the economic catastrophe you suggest we'd have, should we ever decide to enforce our own laws.     

[2tallbill]

Bill, there are already many Hispanics serving the in military at a higher ratio percentage wise than whites. Maybe they're patriotic, maybe they're there for a job, maybe they want to be a US citizen.

Billy, Nearly every Hispanic serving in the military is an American citizen. There are 37,000 immigrants currently are serving in the U.S. military. Another 13,000 immigrants are part of the military reserves, many of whom have been called up for active duty. If you serve honorably in the U.S. armed forces for at least three years, you may be eligible for naturalization to U.S. citizenship. The U.S. armed forces include the army, navy, marines, air force, and coast guard. You will not be required to meet the physical presence and continuous residence requirements of naturalization.

This argument is not race related at all.

Although hispanics make up the majority of illegals they are not alone. My arguements apply equally to everyone here illegally. Draft them, jail them or send them back. If they serve our country then they will have earned inclusion to our country.

Take care,

Bill

[2tallbill]

The National Defense Authorization Act for FY 2004 contains a provision to speed the naturalization process for permanent residents serving in the military. The Act allows permanent residents to naturalize after serving one year in the military during peacetime, authorizes naturalization interviews and oath ceremonies to be performed abroad, waives naturalization fees for those in the military, enables permanent residents who are members of the Selected Reserves or the Ready Reserves to speed up their naturalization in times of war or hostile military operations, allows spouses, unmarried children and parents of those killed in military service to file or preserve already filed applications for permanent residence, and speeds up the process for granting posthumous citizenship to those killed in battle.

Bill

Why not expand it into a draft?

[ecr844]

I never thought there was any Islam in South America

I did hear that in South America people celebrated 9/11 attacks much more then in the Muslim word but I am certain they were not Muslims.

Here are just 2 quick sources with some numbers and citations to look at in regards to islam in South-Central America.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44636
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country

HTH,
ACE844

[Dan C.]

Looks like we have more in Canada than south of the border. 

[BillyB]

I have nothing against LEGAL immigrants. As a matter of fact I embrase and support that concept.

Also, on one thing I definitely agree with you that the majority of LEGAL 'immigrants' are hard working and law abiding, etc... Great people all around and our country is all the better for it.

Many of those hardworking, law abiding LEGAL immigrants that you embrace were once illegal. Amnesty will make you feel good about the current illegals by making them legal. They will be the same people but with a different label.

I just hope your able to at least acknowledge that you were wrong, and maybe even apologize.

I didn't mean to hurt your feelings but I do not owe you an apology. You have attacked my population numbers which are easily verifiable on the internet and given false numbers yourself. You have criticized me for not giving references but you  didn't give reference to a Harvard study that may or may not exist. You have tried to set off alarms for the enforcement argument by mentioning the increasing amount of militant Islamist south of the border but America has more Muslims than all of South America combined. America has, by far, more Muslims than any country in North or South America.

While most immigrants do not or have not committed or are committing crimes, ILLEGAL immigrants have committed several serious crimes, so a point of FACT ANYONE who is in the U.S.A ILLEGALLY has committed at least one crime and most likely several felony's. They are by ANY definition CRIMINALS.
 

I blew off illegal fireworks on the 4th of July and by definition I'm a criminal. Who here has not done anything criminal? I am one of many people who buy illegal fireworks on an Indian reservation in the State of Washington. Like the harsher laws created by the British due to the Boston Tea Party and prohibition, when large amounts of people don't obey, it's silly and expensive for the government to enforce properly and put massive people in jail.

Sense when it is the responsibility of the American people to provide jobs, free medical care and education to those who have entered our country ILLEGALLY?

It's not America's financial responsibility to give free medical care and education to illegals although it could be America's ethical responsibility. I'd like for these people to freely use their real names through Amnesty so they could pay for it themselves.

What do you think is better? Taking a hard line stance and refusing to give medical attention to an illegal immigrant mother who is crying because her baby is about to die if the child doesn't receive $20 worth of medicine or giving up a few tax dollars to do the humane thing? Our government has alloted a certain amount of money for charity and we give hundreds of millions of dollars in humanitarian aid to other countries every year.

What would your wife say if she knew you're a man who'd turn away help for a child? If life and circumstances were different, the child could be yours and your RW's. Sure there are adults abusing the system but in this case, is it worth hurting children to stop the abusers?

I do not like lame and lazy people. I do not like people who intentionally do not pull their load in society. I will not give money to a beggar who stands all day on the street corner with a sign asking for money. I do not like the fact illegal immigrants are a burden to society but they can be productive if we allow.

It's hard enough to catch thousands of terrorists on land the size of Texas. It will be even harder and more expensive to catch 12 million of illegal immigrants on land the size of the USA.

With enforcement we will drain law enforcement in other areas and the citizens will be outraged when the cops could not put much effort catching a child rapist or murderer because they are busy catching the "dangerous" illegal immigrant. If you think immigration will be backed up with Amnesty, just think how backed up law enforcement will be with Enforcement. If needed, we could tap into unemployed workers to go and catch illegals but they certainly won't be effective because the truth is, many of those unemployed are there for a reason. Does anybody notice, as I have, since homeland security has hired more airport security, they are mostly immigrants? We are shorthanded when it comes to hiring more law enforcement officers.

Tigerpaws, I read the article you submitted in the other thread. I noticed it said Japan and Germany has low birth rates and need immigrants. Japan will hurt much more because they don't accept many immigrants.

If a nation is to be less dependant on immigrants, the citizens need to have more babies as they are huge consumers which contribute to society and pay taxes. Gentlemen, if you want your nation to be less dependant on immigrants which in turn will promote your government to keep immigrants out, have lots of sex and don't pull out. Make babies. If not for yourself, do it for your country.

[DKMM]

Its far cheaper to have immigrants come here than to pay for raising our own babies.  Just from a numbers perspective.  We are all benefitting from men coming here at the prime of their lives and working their butts off in our fields and factories.

People saying that illegals don't benefit our economy are about as clueless as the people against free trade with China.

[ecr844]

Many of those hardworking, law abiding LEGAL immigrants that you embrace were once illegal. Amnesty will make you feel good about the current illegals by making them legal. They will be the same people but with a different label.

I didn't mean to hurt your feelings but I do not owe you an apology. You have attacked my population numbers which are easily verifiable on the internet and given false numbers yourself. You have criticized me for not giving references but you  didn't give reference to a Harvard study that may or may not exist. You have tried to set off alarms for the enforcement argument by mentioning the increasing amount of militant Islamist south of the border but America has more Muslims than all of South America combined. America has, by far, more Muslims than any country in North or South America.



I blew off illegal fireworks on the 4th of July and by definition I'm a criminal. Who here has not done anything criminal? I am one of many people who buy illegal fireworks on an Indian reservation in the State of Washington. Like the harsher laws created by the British due to the Boston Tea Party and prohibition, when large amounts of people don't obey, it's silly and expensive for the government to enforce properly and put massive people in jail.

It's not America's financial responsibility to give free medical care and education to illegals although it could be America's ethical responsibility. I'd like for these people to freely use their real names through Amnesty so they could pay for it themselves.

What do you think is better? Taking a hard line stance and refusing to give medical attention to an illegal immigrant mother who is crying because her baby is about to die if the child doesn't receive $20 worth of medicine or giving up a few tax dollars to do the humane thing? Our government has alloted a certain amount of money for charity and we give hundreds of millions of dollars in humanitarian aid to other countries every year.

What would your wife say if she knew you're a man who'd turn away help for a child? If life and circumstances were different, the child could be yours and your RW's. Sure there are adults abusing the system but in this case, is it worth hurting children to stop the abusers?

I do not like lame and lazy people. I do not like people who intentionally do not pull their load in society. I will not give money to a beggar who stands all day on the street corner with a sign asking for money. I do not like the fact illegal immigrants are a burden to society but they can be productive if we allow.

It's hard enough to catch thousands of terrorists on land the size of Texas. It will be even harder and more expensive to catch 12 million of illegal immigrants on land the size of the USA.

With enforcement we will drain law enforcement in other areas and the citizens will be outraged when the cops could not put much effort catching a child rapist or murderer because they are busy catching the "dangerous" illegal immigrant. If you think immigration will be backed up with Amnesty, just think how backed up law enforcement will be with Enforcement. If needed, we could tap into unemployed workers to go and catch illegals but they certainly won't be effective because the truth is, many of those unemployed are there for a reason. Does anybody notice, as I have, since homeland security has hired more airport security, they are mostly immigrants? We are shorthanded when it comes to hiring more law enforcement officers.

Tigerpaws, I read the article you submitted in the other thread. I noticed it said Japan and Germany has low birth rates and need immigrants. Japan will hurt much more because they don't accept many immigrants.

If a nation is to be less dependant on immigrants, the citizens need to have more babies as they are huge consumers which contribute to society and pay taxes. Gentlemen, if you want your nation to be less dependant on immigrants which in turn will promote your government to keep immigrants out, have lots of sex and don't pull out. Make babies. If not for yourself, do it for your country.

"BillyB,"

     The leaps you make are quite interesting. You have yet to back ANYTHING YOU SAY here up with facts, no proof. Just idle typing and words with supposition. I have done the exact opposite. You made a false and untrue statement, about me twice now, so yes, if you were man enough and able to admit the truth that you were wrong. You do owe me an apology. As for hurting my feelings, not even close, nice try and you can continue to tell yourself what ever you need to to feel better By the way, admission of a crime, on an internet 'forum' probably wasn't the smartest thing you could have done.

     The Harvard study exists and if you did some homework and or research you would find that out for yourself. As far as setting off alarms for enforcement there are many things that we as Americans should be concerned about and I have presented numerous factors here not just the 'islam' card in this thread. Your attempt at misdirectionand using personal attacks to that end are unsucessful. If you can't support your position admit your defeat already. I won't even get into your the other ludicrious statements made farther in your response.

Truely though your hypocrisy shines right through with this statement.

I do not like lame and lazy people. I do not like people who intentionally do not pull their load in society. I will not give money to a beggar who stands all day on the street corner with a sign asking for money. I do not like the fact illegal immigrants are a burden to society

Yet, you've spent all this time arguing the opposite. That told me all I need to know. The champion of amnesty who has stated here again and again that ILLEGALS are hard working law abiding contributing citzens and in a moment of weakness. THE TRUTH COMES OUT!!

HERE YOU ARE LADIES AND GENTLEMEN... TAKE A GOOD LOOK AT HYPOCRISY IN ACTION!!! One more time for the cheap seats...

I do not like lame and lazy people. I do not like people who intentionally do not pull their load in society. I will not give money to a beggar who stands all day on the street corner with a sign asking for money. I do not like the fact illegal immigrants are a burden to society

Now come on folks....let's give him a chance I mean he ( "BillyB") did say this, didn't he ?

Most immigrants aren't commiting crimes, and doing drugs and smoking weed like Al Gore's son. They go to work, go home, feed their family love their kids and repeat. The media does not report that because they need stories that shock their readers/viewers.

Oh wait this is the part where you claim you really were talking about LEGAL IMMIGRANTS...NOT ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS, right? Oh, is this the part where you will try to argue strict sentence construction and literall meaning? If so please explain why in the mojority of your posts while refering to ILLEGAL IMMGRANTS you merely call them IMMIGRANTS?

Well hold on now, lets not get to far off topic and your hypocricy. I'm curious if they are what you said above...then how could they be a burden to society (using your logic)? Hmmmm...

Yes I believe in amnesty for illegal immigrants.  Different crimes require different punishment.

Aren't criminals a burden to society?

One good thing about some of these illegal immigrants, who are labeled as criminals, is that they have a drive and motivation for a better life.

Wow, so after reading the above I have to ask myself..which of your statements do you actually think is the truth? The one above or this one below?

I do not like lame and lazy people. I do not like people who intentionally do not pull their load in society. I will not give money to a beggar who stands all day on the street corner with a sign asking for money. I do not like the fact illegal immigrants are a burden to society

Your words speak for themselves....

ECR844

[Dan C.]

ECR- You left off the end of Billy's phrase, and that changes what he means.  You quoted Billy as:

I do not like lame and lazy people. I do not like people who intentionally do not pull their load in society. I will not give money to a beggar who stands all day on the street corner with a sign asking for money. I do not like the fact illegal immigrants are a burden to society

HOWEVER you left off:

but they can be productive if we allow.

That changes the meaning, so he is not a hypocrite.  He is saying that there is a way to improve things, and it is through amnesty. 

  By the way, could you please show the two exact quotes where he attacks you?  I am not really following your line of argument after reading what you wrote twice. 

  I tried to find the Harvard study you refer to, and I found one about housing.  Is that what you are referring to?  Please provide a link to the study you are talking about.  If you can give a page number(s) in the study even better.   

  Lastly, the weakness of your rebuttals is that Billy is constructing an opinion based argument.  He lays out very well what he thinks.  In my opinion you have not.

  Billy's last sentence is something we can all agree on:

have lots of sex and don't pull out. Make babies. If not for yourself, do it for your country.

 

[ecr844]

ECR- You left off the end of Billy's phrase, and that changes what he means.  You quoted Billy as:

HOWEVER you left off:

That changes the meaning, so he is not a hypocrite.  He is saying that there is a way to improve things, and it is through amnesty. 

I fail to see how a criminal is valued and productive member of society. Perhaps you could enlighten me? Drug dealers make and spen money, they are part of the 'economy' does that also mean they are welcome productive members of society "Dan C,"?  Is your logic that they just deal and or the criminals are just criminals because we (as a society) didn't give them a chance? Please explain to me how that works?

[ecr844]

    By the way, could you please show the two exact quotes where he attacks you?  I am not really following your line of argument after reading what you wrote twice. 

Let's see. Here a subtle one...Implication is that I can't think for myself.

Reply #44 on: July 04, 2007, 12:30:11 AM
ecr, In the past I've read similar stuff that you've presented and I used to think like you on this immigration issue. I'm not buying the BS from special interest groups. Now, I can think for myself.

In the very same post the implication I am not generous to friends or family and that I should take a 'note' from a CRIMALIEN.

Reply #44 on: July 04, 2007, 12:30:11 AM Also you seem to be disappointed in the amount of American dollars getting sent back home by immigrants. I sure hope you are as generous to your wife, kids and parents as the immigrants are.

The implication here again, that all of this is a very simple problem and even I (a simpleton) should be able to understand it as 'it's not rocket science'.

Reply #127 on: Yesterday at 12:05:21 AM
Good grief erc844, this is not rocket science and if you think I'm making up numbers, go to the CIA factbook or google to prove me wrong.

 

Here he claims that I have attacked LEGAL immigrants and berated them. When in fact this is a false statement.

Reply #127 on: Yesterday at 12:05:21 AM
Yes, there are people who would attack and label you with no mercy just as you have attacked immigrants.

Just to highlight a few. Are you now going to say that because they were implied and passive-aggressive that they don't count as an attack "DanC,"?

[ecr844]

Lastly, the weakness of your rebuttals is that Billy is constructing an opinion based argument.  He lays out very well what he thinks.  In my opinion you have not.

So, because I made an evidence based arguement highlighting the various facets and ways in which illegal immigration has and is harming the country. "BillyB," has made an opinion based soapbox-town cryer style argument with little in the way of 'evidence' to support what he says. That in your opinion makes his position more credible? Is that your position on this??

[ecr844]

"DanC,"

   You were looking for concrete numbers. here is one report for ya.

http://www.amren.com/Reports/Hispanics/HispanicsReport.htm

I will look for the 'Harvard' study and post the link and or study here when I have it.

Here are some facts for ya.

Every year, the states of Arizona, California, Florida, and New York spend a total of about $600 million more on criminal aliens than they receive from the federal government. Four local jail systems with large criminal alien populations spend a combined $160 million a year over their reimbursements.(81)

Federal law requires hospitals to treat all comers, whether they are legally in the country or not. In California alone, the heavy cost of free medicine for illegal aliens — the overwhelming majority of whom are Hispanic — forced 60 hospitals to shut down between 1993 and 2003; many more are on the verge of collapse.(82)

Hispanics are a relatively disadvantaged population that can be expected to require social services. However, their need for services is not independent of their own financial decisions. In 2004, Mexicans sent $20 billion in remittances to their home country, and other Latin American immigrants sent another $10 billion, sums that could have paid for a considerable amount of medical insurance.(83)

Children of illegal immigrants cost public schools $28.6 billion annually,(75) and 70 percent of the increase in enrollment in public schools from 1991 to 2001 is due to immigration.(76)

Major Findings
Income and Wealth
Per capita income of Hispanics is one half that of non-Hispanic whites, and household net worth is less than one tenth.

Fifty percent of Hispanic households use some form of welfare, the highest rate of any major population group.

Crime
Hispanics are 3.3 times more likely to be in prison than whites; they are 4.2 times more likely to be in prison for murder, and 5.8 times more likely to be in prison for felony drug crimes.

Young Hispanics are 19 times more likely than young whites (and slightly more likely than young blacks) to be in youth gangs.

Education
Hispanics drop out of high school at three times the white rate and twice the black rate.

Even third-generation Hispanics drop out of school at a higher rate than blacks and are less likely to be college graduates.

From 1992 to 2003, Hispanic illiteracy in English rose from 35 percent to 44 percent.

The average Hispanic 12th-grader reads and does math at the level of the average white 8th-grader.

Families and Health
At 43 percent, the Hispanic illegitimacy rate is twice the white rate, and Hispanic women have abortions at 2.7 times the white rate.

Hispanics are three times more likely than whites not to have medical insurance, and die from AIDS and tuberculosis at three times the white rate.

In California, the cost of free medical care for illegal aliens forced 60 hospitals to close between 1993 and 2003.

Attitudes
Only 33 percent of citizens of Hispanic origin consider themselves "Americans" first. The rest consider themselves either "Hispanic/Latino" or their former nationality first.

Federal law requires hospitals to treat all comers, whether they are legally in the country or not. In California alone, the heavy cost of free medicine for illegal aliens — the overwhelming majority of whom are Hispanic — forced 60 hospitals to shut down between 1993 and 2003; many more are on the verge of collapse.(82)

Sounds like what "Scottin crimea" mentioned...

Hispanics are a relatively disadvantaged population that can be expected to require social services. However, their need for services is not independent of their own financial decisions. In 2004, Mexicans sent $20 billion in remittances to their home country, and other Latin American immigrants sent another $10 billion, sums that could have paid for a considerable amount of medical insurance.(83)

Table One. Latino Immigration to the United States 1821-1996. Immigration Period Latin America ImmigrationPercent Latin American of Total Immigration
1821-1830 9,287 6.5
1831-1840 19,800 3.3
1841-1850 20,746 1.2
1851-1860 15,411 0.6
1861-1870 12,729 0.5
1871-1880 20,404 0.7
1881-1890 33,663 0.6
1891-1900 35,661 1.0
1901-1910 182,662 2.1
1911-1920 401,486 7.0
1921-1930 592,201 14.4
1931-1940 51,319 9.7
1941-1950 10,457 0.1
1951-1960 605,681 24.1
1961-1970 1,193,645 35.9
1971-1980 1,618,884 36.0
1981-1990 3,111,760 42.4
1991-1996 2,689,757 43.8
Notes: This table reports on immigrants to permanent resident status. No reliable source of data exists onannual levels of undocumented immigration.The table also excludes immigrants from Latin America who arrive with temporary visas, such as Bracerosin the 1940s, 1950s, and 1960s, or, more recently temporary agricultural workers. The 1991-1996 category includes immigrants from earlier decades who legalized their status under theImmigration Reform and Control Act of 1986. Source: Author's compilation based on U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service 1994: Table 2

Anyone else noticing a trend in the numbers?



 

[Dan C.]

ECR,

  I was in the other room watching tv and boy, you have been busy since my last post.  A few comments:

  Earlier in this thread I have stated why I favor amnesty.  The idea I can "enlighten" you is absurd- we have our positions and there is little common ground. 

  Your accounts of Billy's attacks are very implied, and yes, you probably are being passive-aggressive.  I am certain they count in your mind as attacks.  They barely make the grade in mine. 

  Billy's opinion would be stronger if he had some specific points of evidence.  However, this is a subject where our opinions starts with what we believe inside, and both sides will amass what ever facts they can find to support their positions.  I'm sure myself or Billy can find our own facts to rebut your facts then we will go round-and-round with our dueling facts to no end.   

  Its late, I'll read the link you provided later.  See if you can come up with the Harvard study one too. 

  In the end this is an agree to disagree subject, and that is where I am content to leave it. 

Dan C.