Houston we have a problem

[DKMM]

I just got a sobbing phone call from my recently engaged to E.  Apparently she forgot to tell me that she had been previously married for 2 years.  Now that we are filing paperwork I need to put that sort of information down and she must have realized it.

I previously encountered strong resistance from her when I asked about ex's.  I knew she lived with a guy before yet she seemed against the concept of living together without being married.  Some of the dates and questions of that time also didn't quite add up and now it all makes sense as to why.  Also, my gut told me a bit that she was hiding something and now I see what it was.
 
Its understandable in that she wanted to forget about it, as it sounded like a pretty bad situation she was in (he was severely controlling, abusive etc).  She really doesn't want to tell anyone and wants to live like it never happened.  Also, I told her early on in the relationship that I don't care about her past men as long as she wasn't divorced (which at the time she was claiming she wasn't).  So I probably made it harder for her to out with the truth.  But she listed herself as not divorced on the websites because she thought she could pretend it never happened (and just referred to him as an ex boyfriend).

But at the same time I feel a bit peeved that she lied to me before about it.  I don't give a crap that she's divorced, but to find out while filing the K-1 paperwork?  It would have been nice if she didn't make up a nice little patchwork of lies to cover it up, of which there were many because I quizzed her hard on her past.
 
Am I being a bit overboard when I think this is a huge red flag?   I'm having issues with trust now, even though I reasonably don't think there is anything else about her that she is hiding from me.  I mean we are still rather new in the relationship and its not like she waited till we were married but at the same time it feels weird.   I told her there better not be anything else she is hiding from me but she swears that this was the only thing.   I was free to ask her anything else and everything seems OK.  Still, when I marry someone I have to trust her with everything and I thought I had all the bases covered...

[wxman]

Without trust there is no marriage. I'm not going to say it's a big red flag. Ignore the fact that you are filing a K1. Don't mix the two.  If you met someone in your own city and proposed marriage, and she said she was never married prior to becoming engaged to you, and then told you after the engagement, how would you react? Again this has nothing to do about the K1 and paperwork, don't get upset about that. What you must decide is how honest she is being to you with everything else. Only you know her and her character. We all make mistakes in life. If you feel she is a wonderful person and she made a mistake, and was sincere with her reason, then don't hold it over her, and move on with forming a life together. 

[catzenmouse]

I started to post but wxman said all that I was thinking. I'll just add that you need to have a very serious talk with her about this, about trust, about openness, and about how these things will happen in your future.

Good luck and hope it works out for the best for both of you!

Ken

[ecr844]

Wxman, well said!!!

[Jazzyclassy]

Dear DKMM:)

you are super guy, just never worry, cheer up!

maybe it is not that bad , Yes it is a lie, I partially told you that I feel something was wrong , but that is not my life or life of anyone of us here. It is yours, you need to think things over and take the right decision.

You know if you really do feel this love building for her, then you just have to forgive.....

it is hard but , you've stepped this far with her, somehow you need to move on

I do not agree 100% with what the other guys told, you know my opinion, am not gonna disclose it again

I just would like to wish you all th best and you are not weak :)you can take the right decision. I am sure in you!

But just do not rush with things in your next life when you will be a king living in Monaco:)

[catzenmouse]

Jazzygirl,

 If it is not intruding on something private can you elaborate on what you do not agree with in our posts?

Thanks much,
 Ken

[Jazzyclassy]

I do not agree with the thing that you advise him to close his eyes on lies

and carry on with such serious business as marriage

but I know he wants family and he explained in his posts that she is so perfect for his personality

I think he needs to summ up my opinion and yours together and find the way out

[KenC]

DKMM,
Damn it all, I KNEW you should have gone with the CZ!
KenC

[catzenmouse]

Thanks Jazzy.

I didn't quite read it as closing his eyes on lies but what I said was that he needed to clear the air (meaning to get ALL the truth) on all these issues.

Ken

[Jazzyclassy]

yeah english language keeps surprising me all the time Catzushka:)

Yes he needs to find  the truth in order to carry on with her, otherwise I doubt this marriage will be -they lived happily ever after , no matter how bad it sounds but marriage can not be build on lies

[DKMM]

Actually Ken she offered to have the ring delivered if I wanted to end it.  And my lady J could pick it up for me and bring it to me when she comes out here next month. 

I've certainly had the talk with her about how important it is that we hold everything in the open in the future with no holding back.

[KenC]

Actually Ken she offered to have the ring delivered if I wanted to end it.  And my lady J could pick it up for me and bring it to me when she comes out here next month. 

I've certainly had the talk with her about how important it is that we hold everything in the open in the future with no holding back.

My advice is to take and run!

[Daveman]

...Also, my gut told me a bit that she was hiding something and now I see what it was...
 
 
Am I being a bit overboard when I think this is a huge red flag?

Well, Wxman is dead on in that this is completely unrelated to the K-1 and the paperwork.. and that trust is a big issue...

You ignored your gut the first time, and now you are looking perhaps to ignore it again...Personally I agree with you that this is a monstrous red flag.  It's not that the lie is about an abusive marriage or whatever, it's that she is willing to deliberately deceive and create lie after lie to continue the charade... What can I say? If it were me, I'd have an extremely difficult time staying with her. She did not come clean, she was forced to tell the truth for the sake of the paperwork. IMO this is BAD NEWS (in all caps). 

This is one of the reasons why living together in her home city and interacting in her daily life *IS* important.  Others will disagree, so be it.  Put the K-1 on hold, take your next trip and go live with her for a while.  This marriage thing is simply to important to brush things under the rug, or rush the process of getting to know your partner. 

I know you care about her, cool, don't tell her to f-off, but at least SLOW DOWN and get on the right track bro.. seriously... I'm with Jazzy on this one... something is wrong... I'm about the biggest rah rah cheerleader in the world once someone proposes, but not this time DKMM..  This is not a simple forgive and move on with the marriage situation... you don't KNOW this woman... give it time to get to know her and then proceed to the K-1.. be engaged for a while and enjoy it...

Man, I truly wish you the best... but I can't rah rah on this one...

David

[DKMM]

I should clarify, that she did not tell me because of the paperwork.  She had no idea that she had to tell me because of it.  Originally I thought she did, but she's never seen the application and told me that she didn't know she had to.  She thought everything was cleared up when the court put her surname back.  I told her during the conversation that it would have screwed up the K-1 and she was all the more upset.  In her mind she wanted to forget it ever happened and just start a new life over with me.  (this also explains why she wanted to K-1 instead of a marriage in Russia).

She told me today because it was eating at her mind and I know enough about her to tell its true.  Really I'm just focused on the why did she delay thing.  I have her in fits now because she can tell i'm taking it very seriously...

[Jazzyclassy]

DKMM

I will tell you brutal truth

you allow them to lie to you and to trick you

this case with her will never teach you !

[ScottinCrimea]

Boy, I've gone back and forth on this.  I know that RW have a different view of hanging on to the past and discussing it, and I understand how a simple lie in the beginning can be compounded as time goes on, but in the end I have to agree that, while not necessarily a red flag, it is an indicator that there needs to be a bit more time to learn about each other.  If you choose to go forward, you're going to have a long life together, and to give her the impression that withholding necessary information is easily forgivable is not a good thing.

I do know that my wife withheld some information from me with the idea that it wasn't that relevant to the present.  To be honest, some of it might have been dealbreakers.  In the end I had to focus on what she was now and how I felt about her now and understand that the things in her past that weren't so agreeable were also things that shaped her into the woman that I grew to love.  Still, I wrote to her for over a year and lived with her for nearly two years before we married so I knew exactly what I was getting into.

[KenC]

I should clarify, that she did not tell me because of the paperwork.  She had no idea that she had to tell me because of it.  I told her during the conversation that it would have screwed up the K-1 and she was all the more upset.  In her mind she wanted to forget it ever happened and just start a new life over with me.  (this also explains why she wanted to K-1 instead of a marriage in Russia).

She told me today because it was eating at her mind and I know enough about her to tell its true.  Really I'm just focused on the why did she delay thing.  I have her in fits now because she can tell i'm taking it very seriously...

This is NOT what you said in your opening post:

I just got a sobbing phone call from my recently engaged to E.  Apparently she forgot to tell me that she had been previously married for 2 years.  Now that we are filing paperwork I need to put that sort of information down and she must have realized it.

Now YOU'RE lying to cover up for her?  Maybe you two lyers deserve each other after all.
KenC

[catzenmouse]

DKMN,

 You went on this trip with the ring in hand thinking "Make it or break it." That in itself is a red flag on you. Time, learning, understanding, honesty and trust are all mixed up here.

 My Elena does not like to talk about her previous marriage. Heck, neither do I. But we did, and we talked about all the reasons and feelings that were involved.

 If she cannot give you that and if you cannot give her that then you both need to step back and take the time needed to get there.

Ken

[DKMM]

Yeah I'm doing pretty good at making her understand how much I won't tolerate even the smallest of lies.  Everything needs to be up front and I need to hear about things the day they happen and not later.   I have not the slightest doubt that she understands my views on trust and openess at this point.  Maybe this gives us a chance to tackle the issue head on.

We've always had completely fluid communication and she is feeling my heat now now.  I feel kind of bad being harsh since she had no sleep and is starting a new job today.  But I have to do it, tough love.  If I let it go by now, it will just get worse right?

I'm going to take some time to think and not talk to her for a day or so.

[DKMM]

Ken,
I know I said that because I thought that when I wrote the 1st post, but put it together in my head and no she didn't know that.  She knew I was doing the K-1 and that it asks where she lived but I already knew she lived with this guy.  The fact that they were married she thought had no bearing on the paperwork.  She was surprised to learn that it was. 

I slipped up in my original post with all the emotions going on in my head.  I wouldn't lie on here, I couldn't care less what you guys think of E, and I'm not here to protect her.  I'm trying to get advice on what to do and I am giving as accurate information as possible.

Catzen, yes I was silly to say that but it wasn't actually a make or break trip for me.  In any case, the trip was make it for me.

We spent about an hour discussing her marriage and she promised to answer anything I ask about it from here on forward.  That's fair I think?  I asked all sorts of grating questions that I would have never otherwise asked and she answered them all.

I think the way forward is how she reacts to this all.  She's already quite sorry and promises to be open about everything with me.  So I guess we'll see where it goes from here.  We do love each other terribly and I can feel the pain she's going through after falling in love with me.

[KenC]

Ken,
I know I said that because I thought that when I wrote the 1st post, but put it together in my head and no she didn't know that.  She knew I was doing the K-1 and that it asks where she lived but I already knew she lived with this guy.  The fact that they were married she thought had no bearing on the paperwork.  She was surprised to learn that it was. 
I slipped up in my original post with all the emotions going on in my head.  I wouldn't lie on here, I couldn't care less what you guys think of E, and I'm not here to protect her.  I'm trying to get advice on what to do and I am giving as accurate information as possible.

Catzen, yes I was silly to say that but it wasn't actually a make or break trip for me.  In any case, the trip was make it for me.

We spent about an hour discussing her marriage and she promised to answer anything I ask about it from here on forward.  That's fair I think?  I asked all sorts of grating questions that I would have never otherwise asked and she answered them all.

I think the way forward is how she reacts to this all.  She's already quite sorry and promises to be open about everything with me.  So I guess we'll see where it goes from here.  We do love each other terribly and I can feel the pain she's going through after falling in love with me.

So the "truth" took a 180 degree turn in less than an hour and a half?  You know the problem with lying?  You get your BS "facts" all screwed up.  Like you still did in this quoted post.  DKMM, get your lies straight before you post OK?
KenC

[ScottinCrimea]

KenC, back off!  Good Lord, you talk about others' rush to judgement and then you post the comments you have made here.  You have few facts but you say this: "My advice is to take and run! " 


DKMM, the bottom line is, do you love her?.  Sure she made a bit mistake, but none of us is perfect and part of building a relationship is accepting the faults and mistakes of the other.  I think she is sincere but imperfect.  I agree that you need to take a hard stand to show that issues of deception will not be tolerated, but you also need to temper it with some understanding and love.  Allow her the time to show that this is an abberation, not the norm.  How you respond to this and how she does can have the potential to make your bond stronger or weaker.

[Mir]

I think it sounds crazy to hide something like this. But then they are Russian women and one should be ready for surprises

[KenC]

KenC, back off!  Good Lord, you talk about others' rush to judgement and then you post the comments you have made here.  You have few facts but you say this: "My advice is to take and run! " 


DKMM, the bottom line is, do you love her?.  Sure she made a bit mistake, but none of us is perfect and part of building a relationship is accepting the faults and mistakes of the other.  I think she is sincere but imperfect.  I agree that you need to take a hard stand to show that issues of deception will not be tolerated, but you also need to temper it with some understanding and love.  Allow her the time to show that this is an abberation, not the norm.  How you respond to this and how she does can have the potential to make your bond stronger or weaker.

Scott,
I listened to all DKMM's crap before and originally took him seriously but now that he cannot even keep his lies straight, I know it's all crap.
Maybe if he would take matrimony seriously, I might take him more serious.  You want to know what kind of me are dangerous to newbies?  It's DKMM.  Planning on getting engaged to woman he spent a few hours with before.  Asking the forum what it though about pawning off a fake ring on his "beloved."  Or telling her it was fake and if she performs up to his expectations, he would give her the real thing.  And you want to defend this guy?  Maybe he should join your Ivory Tower group.  Perfect candidate.
KenC

[DKMM]

Ken, again i originally said she must have realized it but that wasn't the case at all because she couldn't have realized it.  Its not even possible, unless she has a friend that does K-1s that I also don't know about.  When I threw my original post on here, it was very quick and with lots of emotion and i said that without analyzing her timing.

If you don't want to believe me then please I don't really need the personal attacks at a time like this, or at least share it in private? 

I'm certainly going to follow Scott's advice.  I'm definitely holding on to that paperwork for a while!