Experiences with American women -- a question from jen

[IAmZon]

I just scanned through the PDF file of a scholarly paper critiquing the mail order bride phenomena.  I do not relate to any part of that!

Jen, I think it is important that you distinguish!  I am not saying you do not. I am just saying your should.  Dumb people are dumb.  Ugly people are ugly.  Lazy people are lazy ... so on and so on, and visa versa.

I related to some of the tone and points in the essay in two distant and unrelated experiences: 
1, one was a birthday party I attended for a employee who was Filipino. Here I saw a strange mix of 20 young Filipino ladies with their much older American husbands.  All I can say was very, very strange. I did not have the feeling I was seeing an injustice.  All seemed happy and content. 

2, The other experience, was in Coast Rica.  Here I saw the local working girls ( I honestly could not differentiate between the working and non working) and the Tourists meet and mingle. The foreign men (mostly American), possessed a rich and wide variety of negative characteristics. Both the men and the women had their angles.  Both, their own problems.  Both left with their own scars.  Here I DID feel I was seeing an injustice.  Although I noted to myself that the women did NOT seem to mind. 

Now, you take the FSU arena.  From my experience, and from the experience I have seen from others, there is little in common. 

I have known and dated  six girls with Russian citizenship over the last 24 months.  All have already been in the US.  But I wish to stress to you ... these ladies have choices in men.  They are all attractive, smart, and hard-working.

I am certain the story is different for the much less fortunate around the world; the truly poor and inwardly bankrupt.  You do not need to travel to third worlds either - moral bankruptcies occurs in every poverty zones in the US too.

(Jen, I hope you are different ... balanced and good natured.  Remember that scene in the movie Porky's?  Where the female PE coach was obsessed with the penis that poked through the shower?    Much of the feminists writing has that tone to it.  Do you see it?)

[BC]

Rivcardo,

The problem with research is that the whole 'pie' must be considered, or at least a strictly defined subset which is quite difficult to do with MOB.

The difficulties with published research in the past was the failure to recognize that one slice of the pie can taste quite different from another.

I think Jen has visited a few other i-net RW resources and recognizes the unique flavour offered here.

[jen]

Rivcardo,

The problem with research is that the whole 'pie' must be considered, or at least a strictly defined subset which is quite difficult to do with MOB.

The difficulties with published research in the past was the failure to recognize that one slice of the pie can taste quite different from another.

I think Jen has visited a few other i-net RW resources and recognizes the unique flavour offered here.

Hi BC and all,

Thanks for the comments and tips. Yes, I have visited other RW resources and I do see that this is a special community, although I am still learning...I am interested to hear more from anyone who wishes to comment on how you think this board is specific or a "cut above" (if you agree with that), how you think others whom you have encountered on other boards or while in the FSU are different (though I'm not sure whether it is allowed to mention names of other boards here), etc. This is getting away from the original topic of this thread but I am interested in the question; and I will post a new thread with a related topic when I am back at my desk next week.

Rivardco -- yes, I try to be balanced and good-natured    I can't say I know the reference from Porky's although it does not sound too flattering!  I think I was too young to be allowed to see that movie when it came out and it never seemed like "quality" viewing material to seek out later! Maybe I should see it as a piece of Americana, though...

Good weekend everyone, j.

[BradSTL]

Hi jen--- "Porky's" is a comedy about teens coping with their emerging sexual desire--- THAT'S ALL!   

One element has not been mentioned in this discussion about the differences between American (western) women and Russian (FSU-eastern) women . . .

MEDIA! (television-film-literature)

The stereotypes incubated in TV dramas and comedies, movies, talk shows have had a PROFOUND influence on the behavior of the genders, at least in America, perhaps elsewhere in the west.

Given the amount of time Americans spend watching television (at least what they used to spend consuming television programming), compared with the more limited amount of consumption in the east. . . its no surprise there are different attitudes, or outlooks, on life.

This might be changing as the FSU continues to be exposed to more western television programming, unless the FSU states begin establishing limitations on market access for western programming (as France pursued in the 80's and 90's)  .

I will say I subscribe to the theory that current American media can leave someone with a general sense of * dissatisfaction * with their life.  If American media does not outright say living more traditional/familiar lifestyles is wrong, it seems to me it is often suggested.   Over time many Americans seem to adjust their personal perspectives because of the suggestions, altering their own sense of self-worth and their sense of well-being.

Incidentally, what author most closely resembles your view of feminisim:   Susan Faludi, or Camille Paglia?

[jb]

I had promised myself not to become embroilled in this silly topic, however there is one thing I feel needs to be interjected.

Many, if not most of the men involved in this pursuit are on the downhill side of 35-40,,, many of them downhill of 50+.  It's a whole 'nother demographic when he dates an age appropriate AW as opposed to a RW.  The divorced AW is probably either living on child support and spousal alimony, or has a terrible job, and is a very bitter person.   The divorced RW on the other hand, is more used to being on her own and is more fully capable.  The RW will dress better and take better care of herself.  You'll never see her go to the shopping mall or even to the "magizine" in sweats and with her hair in curlers.  She has better self esteem.

In the case of the sloppy AW I see every day at Wal-Mart, her low self esteem is just common sense and is well deserved.

Just my 2 cents

[Wayne B]

I might add that the care that  RW put into themselves, also reflects in their environment also.... home, yard, etc, always clean and in its place...

[jen]

Incidentally, what author most closely resembles your view of feminisim:   Susan Faludi, or Camille Paglia?

Hmm, neither. At some point after I am back to work late next week I will try to find some texts/quotes/passages that reflect my sensibilities better...

Thanks everyone, and I will start a new thread when I am back next week and have more time for following all the posts, since this thread is increasingly on to new ground.

Enjoy the rest of the weekend, J.

[TigerPaws]

jen,

 Get used to the wandering nature of these threads, if you want to keep the posting more focused on a specific topic simply post a quick note that the topic is wondering a little to much, believe me most will understand and try to refocus on the topic at hand.

TigerPaws

[jen]

Actually, the wandering is very interesting to me as it leads on to new topics that people are thinking about and have something to say about. I just figured that if I start a new thread more people will know what is being discussed currently and chime in again. I'll do that next week but the fact that the discussion continues to develop here is great.

More soon, J.

[USCFAN]

Here is what I found.  There were the younger ones who had never been married.  They were looking for either the hot body stud, the rich guy who could give them things to show off to their friends or they were too involved in preparing for a career with no desire for a family until they were well established in their career  Then there were the previously married ones with young children.  They were looking for a provider for them and their kids.  It was more important to them that you had a good job and a nice house than that you were compatible as a couple.  Their priority was their children and a husband was looked upon as a work horse and only secondary in their affection.  The older women already had established themselves in their career and looked on a husband as the last piece of their happiness puzzle.  Of course, the career always took precedence over the husband.
     You will note that in every case, the goal for them was a very selfish one.  In general, AW are very egocentric.  The world revolves around them and the only purpose of a husband is to meet their needs.  There is really no thought for what the husband's needs and wants are, and unfortunately, the feminist movement preaches that the wants and needs of the woman supercede the wants and needs of the man.  Men are made to feel guilty for having wants and needs.

I know I'm late to the dance ... on this thread ... but Scott, your post here was excellent. I don't think I've seen someone put my thoughts into their words so well.

[KenC]

I had promised myself not to become embroilled in this silly topic, however there is one thing I feel needs to be interjected.

Many, if not most of the men involved in this pursuit are on the downhill side of 35-40,,, many of them downhill of 50+.  It's a whole 'nother demographic when he dates an age appropriate AW as opposed to a RW.  The divorced AW is probably either living on child support and spousal alimony, or has a terrible job, and is a very bitter person.   The divorced RW on the other hand, is more used to being on her own and is more fully capable.  The RW will dress better and take better care of herself.  You'll never see her go to the shopping mall or even to the "magizine" in sweats and with her hair in curlers.  She has better self esteem.

In the case of the sloppy AW I see every day at Wal-Mart, her low self esteem is just common sense and is well deserved.

Just my 2 cents

Some good points made here jb,
Thinking back to my single days, you are correct in the fact that comparing an AW 7 to 10 years older to a RW is maybe not a fair comparison.  But I will also say that many of the AW I dated during that period were very independent and had pretty good jobs too.  Of course there also were the Wal Mart, sweat suit wearing women living off the spoils of their lucrative divorce proceeds, but I surely didn't date them.  When comparing RW to AW, I think it is only fair to compare those women of equal class too as there certainly many different levels of RW as well as AW.
KenC

[IAmZon]

Scot wrote:
"You will note that in every case, the goal for them was a very selfish one.  In general, AW are very egocentric.  The world revolves around them and the only purpose of a husband is to meet their needs.  There is really no thought for what the husband's needs and wants are, and unfortunately, the feminist movement preaches that the wants and needs of the woman super cede the wants and needs of the man.  Men are made to feel guilty for having wants and needs."

To be fair we are ALL - men and women - too EGOCENTRIC in the USA.  Implicit in your comments were sentiments of egoism too:)  Let's admit this.  I not only seek a different balance in the RW I find, but I also intent to create a different balance in me.

On additional evidence to the SUPREME difference in independence and fight of the RW compared to the AW ...

I am going to visit a Russian girl friend (it is an uncommon relationship ... we are not going to get serious; yet remain good friends that fully enjoy each other); I am going to stay with her for three weeks in August.  I know she is very, very tired.  She gets up at 5:30, has two jobs and is a full time student. 

I said, "When we live together, you can catch up on your rest ... I will take care of you."  Instantly, almost in a tone of  an adversary, she replied, "No! Teem.  we must take care of each other."

Subtle, but powerful difference.  One that produces completely different results.

[ScottinCrimea]

To be fair we are ALL - men and women - too EGOCENTRIC in the USA.  Implicit in your comments were sentiments of egoism too:)  Let's admit this.  I not only seek a different balance in the RW I find, but I also intent to create a different balance in me.

I agree with this idea.  I think perhaps it was my progression to becoming a less egocentric person that led to my attraction to FSUW women and the attitudes of the culture as a whole.  Certain events caused me to see this, reject it and look for something different, both in myself and in my wife.

[KenC]

Scot wrote:
"You will note that in every case, the goal for them was a very selfish one.  In general, AW are very egocentric.  The world revolves around them and the only purpose of a husband is to meet their needs.  There is really no thought for what the husband's needs and wants are, and unfortunately, the feminist movement preaches that the wants and needs of the woman super cede the wants and needs of the man.  Men are made to feel guilty for having wants and needs."

To be fair we are ALL - men and women - too EGOCENTRIC in the USA.  Implicit in your comments were sentiments of egoism too:)  Let's admit this.  I not only seek a different balance in the RW I find, but I also intent to create a different balance in me.

On additional evidence to the SUPREME difference in independence and fight of the RW compared to the AW ...

I am going to visit a Russian girl friend (it is an uncommon relationship ... we are not going to get serious; yet remain good friends that fully enjoy each other); I am going to stay with her for three weeks in August.  I know she is very, very tired.  She gets up at 5:30, has two jobs and is a full time student. 

I said, "When we live together, you can catch up on your rest ... I will take care of you."  Instantly, almost in a tone of  an adversary, she replied, "No! Teem.  we must take care of each other."

Subtle, but powerful difference.  One that produces completely different results.

rivardco,
Be careful there.  I went to meet Lena as a "friend" and look what happened!

Scott,
Your comments about AW are right on the money!
KenC

[catzenmouse]

Be careful there.  I went to meet Lena as a "friend" and look what happened!

Yeah you poor thing you!  What is it now? 8+ years of pure hell? Do we need to start a "Save KenC Fund"? 

[TigerPaws]

Well based on KenC's advanced age I would suggest Mega Vitamins, tailored injections of Testosterone and Viagra   

TigerPaws   

[2tallbill]

Here is my bold prediction:
This will be just like every single other blatant twisted report that has ever been made on this
subject. You will all be pissed the way things were twisted to make all men seeking an RW losers
and all RW desperate or scammers.

Why do I make this bold prediction? because
1. Every single other time in Feminist history it has happened.

2. She will be ignored, shunned and disgraced by her Feminists friends, followers and faculty if she puts any kind of positive outlook on this regardless of the truth. It is not allowed in the Feminists community to have original thoughts and especially not thoughts that contradict the Feminists Mantra. It would be easier for her to end womens suffrage!!! or to overturn Roe V Wade

3. She must add stories of Russian women who are beaten and killed and must insist that men travel to Russia for a submissive wife. She is NOT allowed to show statistics comparing foreign wife deaths to natural borne American wife deaths. She is NOT allowed to show happy married couples. She must find sex tourists and show how they are typical of the guys who travel to the FSU.

Just my two kopecks,


Bill

PS. I honestly hope I am wrong, but its not possible for her to do this.

[KenC]

Yeah you poor thing you!  What is it now? 8+ years of pure hell? Do we need to start a "Save KenC Fund"? 

Ken,
Jack was right!  You are a GREAT guy!  Thanks.  I'll open a Pay Pal account tomorrow for you to forward the funds!
KenC
(Will be married for 8 next month, together for almost 9)

[PrincetonLion]

It seems to me that Jennifer is bothered with the fact that a lot of American men are  going for Russian women

Hehe, do you think several hundred for all America is "a lot"?
Everywhere at all these "russian-brides-shipping-and-handling" sites I see a dozen of exactly the same guys... 

[CLB1973]

You classify yourself as a feminist but have difficulty in defining it.  Maybe that's a clue to AW in general, who can't define who they are and what their role in society and marriage is.  there certainly isn't that problem with RW.

You NAILED IT Scott!

[Jazzyclassy]

Hehe, do you think several hundred for all America is "a lot"?

sure it is a lot

you seem to be interested in russian girls as well so  what are you trying to say

I broke my promise not to post in this strange thread which smells like only useless debating thing which can lead to insults and crazy scandals

[PrincetonLion]

KenC, you are wasting your time    if you think you can make any sense from a Russian woman who has only met one American woman in her life       and is going to try to offer advice in a thread  "Experiences with American women".     

That's really marvelous one!
Most of you guys met only one Russian woman in all your life and dare to speak about "Russian woman" as a species (Uxor Ruthenica) !

[TigerPaws]

Hehe, do you think several hundred for all America is "a lot"?
Everywhere at all these "russian-brides-shipping-and-handling" sites I see a dozen of exactly the same guys... 

The only real benchmark available is the official numbers of K1 and K3's which are issued every year but even those do not tell the whole story but at least it is a start if you want a number.

TigerPaws

[TigerPaws]

That's really marvelous one!
Most of you guys met only one Russian woman in all your life and dare to speak about "Russian woman" as a species (Uxor Ruthenica) !

I challenge your statement, how would you or anyone else know how many ladies from the FSU any given gentleman met?

TigerPaws

[ScottinCrimea]

PrincetonLion,  I have spent the past two years living in the FSU and married to a RW.  You need to spend more time on the forum and get to know the guys here better before you start blowing smoke out your anal orifice.  Two posts so far and two negative comments.  What are you "trolling" for?