Experiences with American women -- a question from jen

[KenC]

Bruno,
There are many threads where Jazzy's insight is invaluable, this is not one of them.  Nice and polite has been tried, unsuccessfully.
KenC

[Jack]

Tiger I want to say that you certaintly do not speak for everyone with your comments above, but you do speak for a LOT.  Thank you.   

[Jazzyclassy]

You know guys its fine I can leave , but do not think that with such attitude towards people , you will achieve anything

bye

[Bruno]

Bruno,
There are many threads where Jazzy's insight is invaluable, this is not one of them.  Nice and polite has been tried, unsuccessfully.
KenC

Ken, i know... Jazzy is not a easy lady... and sometime, she is wrong...

But, I/O was able several time to put her back to her place without insult... why not try yourself... of course, I/O know her... but you have nothing to loose for try...

Don't forget, Jazzy is young, she have a lot to learn... and she is ready to learn it too... simply be polite will hurt nobody...

Hey, she is a future bride.... she have a foreign boyfriend... better use some time for guide her on the right way... and for be honest, she is not always wrong !

Myself, i have a very limited experiennnce with AM... maybe not like Jazzy but 6 month and maybe 3 or 4 US ladies is very limited... and it was almost 20 year ago... when i was myself 20 yo... when fat women with patatoes bag like clothes was not existing...

Maybe, us, European, are too much speaking and negociating.... but war is not always the solution to the problem ( sometime needed but very few time )... if jazzy is really a problem for you, simply ignore her... of better, PM I/O and ask advive about how to make with her in a civilized way...

Jen, sorry to be  but like you can see, "our communauty" is not always following the same line/meaning... it is why, it will be very difficult to make a honest study of us... we are all individual, very different from each other... only one common thing... seeking the ideal woman with border limit...and really, this don't make us a interesting "study" group...

Yes, in our communauty, you will discover guy's that you don't like... but remember that we are only a few thousand people from all around the earth... that between these only few thousand, only a few individual will be these that you don't like... i don't know if statistic of from your expertise but please, if you discover someone who is bad in YOUR eyes, don't make a report who show us like bad people...

We have know anthropologist, statistician, sociologue, etc... maybe it is time to make a real study who mix all these speciality... i don't remember if it is in these topic or a other one where you ask about IMBRA... the IMBRA is related on real fact, on murder of foreign bride... yes, it is wrong but it is only a few case related to the several thounsand of foreign marriage each year... do you think that it is right to show us like potential murder people because of these very few case !!! And more, specialy, when one of these case, the RW was not kill by the husband but by man from the extra-marital relation she have!!!

I remember you, i am not US citizen... I am european citizen... but i read a lot... and i think that US feminist give a wrong image of the US man... it is my own opinion... i can be wrong but it will be your task to show it to me ( since you call yourself a US feminist )

Jen, People know me here like a real "a$$hole"... i am not a easy guy... but i am open minded and if you have valuable argument, i will listen to them... Since i am European, our exchange of argument will not be a fight but i wil call it "negociation" 

[Bruno]

You know guys its fine I can leave , but do not think that with such attitude towards people , you will achieve anything

bye

Why "bye"... to be honest, you can be sometime a pain in the "a$$"... but your view is very interresting... you seem to be enough "conservative" in your opinion... funny that in our own newspaper, more of 65% of young people ( below 25 year ) are conservative people... no more sex for fun, more serious, no more soft drugs, etc...

World is changing, and it is your generation who is changing it... i am from 1968, the sexual revolution in Europa ( i know we was late )... but i am not old ( i think ) but the new generation seem to think more like you... so, i am always curious to know why... it will never change my meaning over thing of life... but because of you, i know that i will never date a FSU lady below 25 yo... better one around 30 yo... not that you are wrong... simply a problem of incompatibility... and seriously, thingchange very fast in FSU... you have know the sexual revolution very late... but in a few years, you have reach the "conservative" level where us, we have need several decade...

In my previous post, i was more for you... now, i am more against... don't take it bad... i am simply curious and wish learn... and same with your limited life experience, i can learn from it because i have never follow your way...if one day, i goto Russian again, i doubt about it, i will be happy to share our respective meaning over a ... yep, generation problem... i know, a pool ( snooker ) table... this always work 

[catzenmouse]

Sure doesn't speak for me. Regardless of whether I agree or disagree with the post or opinion of anyone they surely DO have the right to post here. I don't know what is considered a "lot" but maybe 3 or 4 is enough to use that term.

Ken

[TigerPaws]

catzenmouse,

 I believe the point is that while Jazzyclassy's comments are welcome her limited to no real direct experience with AW's seriously limits her ability to contribute anything meaningful to this discussion.

TigerPaws

[Jack]

Well like I said Ken, Tiger could certainly speak for me and I thanked him for doing so.  He was precise, to the point.

You ever notice Ken how some people seem to talk about things they know nothing about?  I am sure you have noticed such before with previous posters over the many years you have observed Russian discussion boards.  Doesn't it just drive you crazy sometimes Ken to see people who you know who don't have an idea as to what they are talking about but yet want to talk and voice an opinion as to try to lead that they do know what they are talking about.  This particular thread is somewhat of a good example.  The starter of this thread was asking it's members for their experiences with American woman.  Little doubt you have a lot of experience with American women, I know I do, KenC sure does, heck a lot of the guys responding to this thread looked as though they had some real experience with American women and thus could probably offer some valid advice to the person who asked this question.

With regards to the term of "a lot" I would think in this particular thread it's probably a figure of well over 10, so I feel the term "a lot" is quite appropriate here, but not to say there will always be those who will agree with people who have limited knowledge in the matter as to which they profess some knowledge.

[Kuna]

jen,

Sorry for coming in so late in this thread...  I've seen a few of the posts (haven't read all of the thread) but wanted to add my perspective for your information.

--was a dissatisfaction with American women (or women in your home country, if you are not based in US) the key thing that motivated you to begin searching abroad?

I'm 38...  relatively successful.... Australian... married young... divorced a long time ago... dated constantly in my "single time" and PROBABLY can blame (in part) my "fear of failure" for not committing to a relationship at some time in the past 10 years or so...  I'd dated girls that were incompatible but if truth be known there were probably a few that would have been "suitable" partners for me...  Not suitable enough to take the plunge though.

I was ready to settle down but hadn't found someone I could imagine spending my life with... therefore I looked further afield. I had planned to follow my European heritage during a holiday to Germany, Latvia and Ukraine and decided I would meet some girls while in Ukraine ...

I short... I wasn't dissatisfied with Australian women.. I was dissatisfied with the ones I was meeting and dating...

--if so, how would you describe that dissatisfaction?  (From conversations with individuals as well as reading boards like this one, I have seen a number of common responses:  unattractiveness, lack of family orientation, self-centeredness, etc.) What is the central problem as you see it?

Central problem?  VALUES AND GOALS!!!

The problems I encountered were different depending on the type of girl I was dating...

Women of an appropriate age for me (approx 30 yrs old);
* Many had too many emotional scars from previous bad relationships.  I'd been a "fixer" once and didn't feel the responsibility to nurse a woman back to emotional health again;
* Some with emotional scars were just too battle hardened to be attractive anymore
* Some were just desperate for marriage and children.  Desperation makes anyone unattractive
* Some had obviously never taken care of themselves physically, emotionally or financially... and again I didn't feel like being a "fixer".  
* Some had buried themselves in work because they'd been convinced they should but they had nothing in their lives EXCEPT work... BORING!
* Some had the audacity to ask me my income before or during the first date. They explained it as not wanting to waste anyone's time because they were looking for a man of a "certain standing".  By the way...  when I played the game with these girls I found they had been aiming way too low!

Younger Girls (20 - 23 or so)...
* Cute, young and sexy... but nothing in common - Immature!!!
* Had bf's at the time and after telling the truth wanted to continue "the fling" because "It's fun"

Things that didn't relate to age:
* Drug use
* Drinking too much... AND too often
* Lack of emotional and intellectual connection.  
* Bisexual girls who thought "cheap thrills" was "cool fun stuff". Don't get me wrong, it is, but it's not a good foundation for marriage in my opinion;

--why do you think these problems exist?  Do you think that feminism is responsible for these problems, as I have often seen discussed, or something else?  If so, what do you think "feminism" means or includes?

The modern attitude of "more for less" (Greed synchronised with laziness) coupled with the trend of people not accepting responsibility for their own actions means we're all worse off.

Feminism and the lies taught to women are a big cause - but not the only cause...

Sexual Freedom ripped women off...

Sexual Equality lied to them...

Gender neutral language sterilised them

and

Radical feminist's opposition to marriage reduces the security many women COULD experience if they didn't feel like some sort of loser if the admit to wanting marriage and children.


There's no doubt women deserved a better place in our society than they had in the past but some of the changes and populist modern attitudes are robbing women of the happiness they desire.

[TigerPaws]

Kuna,

 While we disagree on many things and even though this thread is about American women, you bring a similar point of view from a vastly different country. Australia is not America yet many of the same problems exist as you stated so well. Please feel free to continue because your experiences bring to light the more global reach feminism has.

TigerPaws

[BC]

catzenmouse,

 I believe the point is that while Jazzyclassy's comments are welcome her limited to no real direct experience with AW's seriously limits her ability to contribute anything meaningful to this discussion.

TigerPaws

Tiger,

Yes, around 'old hands', probably..

But remember, there are a lot of 'young hands' hanging around.  I think it is quite valuable for them to know a little bit about how FSU women *may* perceive the west on a wide range of topics, including this one.

Look at your tv and turn down the contrast or hue..  not a very good picture.. or?

Cheers!

[catzenmouse]

Tigerpaws,

 In one post you say it is not "welcome, needed, wanted or useful" and in the next it is welcome but just not useful in your opinion. If someone writes a post that is 99% useless but has one gem of information in it should they be considered not useful? 80% useful? 60%? 40%? Where exactly is the line between useful and useless? And if it is only the opinion of some members what is the percentage that we use to cut them off?

 So you don't like jazzy. Fine. But when you make a broad sweeping statement that says that you speak for everyone here not only are you wrong in that assessment but you will also hear about it from some of us here who do not need for you to be our mouthpiece as we can, and do, speak for ourselves.

Mr. Bragg,

 You're right. You always have been right. You always will be right. And I'm sure that the great powers that be will continue to bestow upon you that gift of eternal rightness. I am now, and always will be, your biggest fan.

Ken

[Jack]

Thank you catzenmouse   

[ScottinCrimea]

hey, i think that 99.9% of US men marry US women... that they are able to build happy family... a little part of %, us, have not find locally what we wish... and we seek internationaly...

Bruno, I think you have offered some excellent points, but you forget that even though the vast majority of AM's marry AW, remember that the divorce rate is over 50%, which means that for one party or the other, there is an incompatibility.  I think in the cases where the man senses the incompatibility, he searches in new areas for his next "companion for life", whether that is meeting women in a different setting or a different country.  I see very few here who haven't had a failure in relationships with AW that are searching for something different in the FSU. (failure meaning either party not living up to the other's expectations).  In some cases this is the fault of the feminist movement because they create expectations that are often imcompatible with a happy marriage.

Jazzy has some very strong opinions on this issue.  While we all understand that her level of knowledge and experience is limited, it is important to note that this is the opinion of a young FSU woman and those of us who seek such must be prepared for such an attitude, right or wrong.  What percentage of young FSUW share this attitude is impossible to say, but it's something to think about.

[MaxxumUSA]

Jazzyclassy,

 While you are very welcome to provide a Russian woman's perspective your limited to nonexistant knowledge of American women is neither welcome, needed, wanted or useful to this thread.

TigerPaws

Inappropriate enough for me to say so.

[Jack]

it is important to note that this is the opinion of a young FSU woman and those of us who seek such must be prepared for such an attitude,

Scott this is a wonderful point and one in which I have mentioned before.  I think ALL men here who are pursuing a Russian bride should examine as many Russian women's attitude as possible. If so, and in the process, I think many men will see a great many Russian women's attitudes that they do like, that they would like to be part of. As well I think some men will also see a certain type attitude that they do not like, would not want to marry and spend one's life with.

The RWD offers this type education, this type comparison, and I encourage, and I know catzenmouse will agree with me as he has expressed such, men to try to understand some of the attitudes of some of the Russian women that are seen here and ask yourself if that is the type Russian woman attitude you want to marry. 

And of course the answer is, as again catzenmouse will agree to, is that as all men are different some men will like the attitudes of some of the Russian women here, others will not.

[Makkin]

Hi,

  Miss Jazzy is always welcome in my book. She makes great posts and also delivers great ideas. She is always willing to help a fellow member.(she is a fellow marine to me)

  On many occasions Jazzy has been very helpful and very HONEST. I believe no matter her opinion at least she is HONEST.

  Please continue to post Jazzy and continue to be exactly who and what you are.

  Your Friend Indeed,

Makkin

[BC]

Bruno, I think you have offered some excellent points, but you forget that even though the vast majority of AM's marry AW, remember that the divorce rate is over 50%, which means that for one party or the other, there is an incompatibility.

I wonder how many out of the 50% or so that divorce, do not remarry..  Second, third and even more marriages are becoming pretty common I think.. eventually, most do find their partner IMHO, or at least 'carry on' being married.

[Bruno]

Bruno, I think you have offered some excellent points, but you forget that even though the vast majority of AM's marry AW, remember that the divorce rate is over 50%, which means that for one party or the other, there is an incompatibility.

I hate that number but locally, the divorce rate for local people is around 66%... but in case of foreign marriage, it is around 40%... yep, i have try and miss... like in all statistic, it is need some people who compensate the extrem... Hey, when i read YOUR Ciz hanbook ( i don't trust it )... themself write that foreign couple are more strong build and last more long that local couple... divorce rate lower that the national one.... if i was American and with some brain ( able to think ) .... why not try foreign bride.... the result will be lower divorce...

Is the man seeking a foreign bride better that other... i don't know... but they invest more monety and more TIME in the relationship... this lead them to give up not so easily... difficulty on the way CAN BE a reason why foreign couple stay more long together... What the hell the reason... only final result count ... people who aremarried to FSU women Know a relationship who last more long that local one... is it now what we all ( almost ) seek... a long lasting relationship...

In some cases this is the fault of the feminist movement because they create expectations that are often imcompatible with a happy marriage.

Here, i fully agree... feministm can be a problem... but for how much % of the global population... never forget, same if we are numerous, we are the execption... same at the FSU level... people estimate 100.000 FSU bride year... it is really little when compare to the hundred million of FSU ladies...

Jazzy has some very strong opinions on this issue.  While we all understand that her level of knowledge and experience is limited, it is important to note that this is the opinion of a young FSU woman and those of us who seek such must be prepared for such an attitude, right or wrong.  What percentage of young FSUW share this attitude is impossible to say, but it's something to think about.

Here, i fully agre with you... i respect Jazzy but i think that i will never marry someone like her... she can almost be my own daughter... it is what, here, we call the generation conflict... no one is wrong... simply both are different... and seriously, the situation don't surprise me... with FSU have a evolution at 1000%... We, western country have already know a evolution like it happen now in FSU... but we have use a few hundred year to make it... FSU have follow a similar way in only 20 year or a little more... take 3 RW, one of 20 yo, one of 25 yo and a last of 30yo... all will be very different...

In othe topic, some make comment about Turbo having a girl with a lot of age difference..... remember that htese girl is more near 30 yo that the 258 yo or the 20 year old... she have already grow up in the old system...i will more worry from a guy like me ( below 40 yo ) dating a lady from 20 yo ( lower age diference that in Turbo case )... Turbo, sorry to bring your situation here... but you are the example where the age difference have almost if not nothing to make with the build relationship... remember, you have make a K1 for a lady a few year younger that your actual one but i think that you realise that these few year are like you are in a other world...

Now about jazzy, she have a relationship... She is young and she know a young man... something really different that us , the majority know... but it is how think age changing now... take a look at russian site like http://love.xa-xa.org , RW seek men around his own age ( of course, don't count the hooker who are not what we seek )...

Myyy genral point in these case is that same if i don't afree with a opinion/meaning, i try to reply with argument and not with insult... i know, i say "try" because sometime it have happen that i have lower myself to the lower level and post insult too... nobody is perfect...certainly me not !!!

EDIT : About marriage think... statistid can be bad thing... specialy, in the case of foreign relationship, in some country, cohabitation become a option... i don't know the actual situation of shadow now... but the original move was about cohabitation... since the statistic give info about married or not... it is not more a realistic image  of the world "internatinal relationship"...

Don't forget, US is maybe around 50% of the "customer"... we cannot forget the other 50%... And i was surprised that in case of honest business, more that 50% of customer ware not from US... I am curious, Richard... you have a honest business.... how mcu %  of your customer are from US... How much % of customer ask the lady to visit man's country beforemake any proposal ( possible in all Europa )...

I will not be surprised that Richard reply positively to question with non US people.... don't forget, i was two time agency owner... for scammer; almost only US citizen are a potential objectif... specialy sinceIMBRA... you have russian language site who explain how to "fµck off" american system... how to obtain a GC before the 2 yaer time delay...

The Jen feminism have not help the honest foreignwomen... if have only hepl the bad one... result will be a bunch of men who choose  to be alone that be in any type of relationship... foreign or national relationship.....

Jen, i am a pro-feminist..... but if i exexplain how i think about it, how are law are bout it... you will be in schock... reason iis very simple, here, we seek equality... very different of reveange or domination

Ps; sorry for thhhhe poor english but each tile tha i try a "speell Check", it know problem with software

[jen]

Hi all,

Still traveling but I had a minute to check in and saw that a lot has happened just since this morning! I wanted to reiterate what all of the posts have said re: everyone's postings being welcome. You all know each other better than I do, so whenever anyone adds in a few words in their own posts to explain what their opinions are based on (i.e., what country they are from if it's not obvious, whether they've traveled to the FSU before, etc.), that will be helpful of course. Usually people do something along these lines anyway. Regardless, everyone's opinions (incl. Jazzy Classy's) are indeed welcome to me.

Bruno, your comments about the diverse community represented by this board are valuable and is something I'd like to talk about more in a future thread.

Both to an extent, but most particularly social acceptability.
I/O

I/O, could you explain what you mean about social acceptability? Do you mean in their personal views, how they approach dating in FSU, or...?

I'll be back next week to follow up on some of the points that have been raised and start a new thread...

Thanks everyone and have a good weekend,
J.

[catzenmouse]

Scott this is a wonderful point and one in which I have mentioned before.  I think ALL men here who are pursuing a Russian bride should examine as many Russian women's attitude as possible. If so, and in the process, I think many men will see a great many Russian women's attitudes that they do like, that they would like to be part of. As well I think some men will also see a certain type attitude that they do not like, would not want to marry and spend one's life with.

The RWD offers this type education, this type comparison, and I encourage, and I know catzenmouse will agree with me as he has expressed such, men to try to understand some of the attitudes of some of the Russian women that are seen here and ask yourself if that is the type Russian woman attitude you want to marry. 

And of course the answer is, as again catzenmouse will agree to, is that as all men are different some men will like the attitudes of some of the Russian women here, others will not.

Mr. Bragg,

 Yes, I do agree with what you wrote in this post. It is very true that RWD is quite unique in being able to offer the opinions of a great variety of diverse opinions. We get to see the good, the bad, and the ugly all in one place.

 And yes, there are all types here, in the various countries that our members are from, and of the personalities that would be attractive to them.

 Just because "I" know that you are always right about everything does not mean that "I" always agree with you. Of course, we "all" know that is just because "I" am wrong and/or misinformed.

As always,
 Your #1 Fan

[BC]

Both to an extent, but most particularly social acceptability.
I/O

I/O, could you explain what you mean about social acceptability? Do you mean in their personal views, how they approach dating in FSU, or...?

I'll be back next week to follow up on some of the points that have been raised and start a new thread...

Thanks everyone and have a good weekend,
J.

A 'cut above the rest' maybe?

I've participated on a couple of RW related boards for several years now. I think here at RWD the number of active posters are somewhere on the order of 200 or so..  The total member count around 2000. 

I really think you are relating with the top 10% here - those that have a serious interest in this quest. 

Whatever you glean from this board is not indicative of the rest of RW seekers.  Totally different worlds IMHO.

I'd like to say you are observing the 'cream of the crop'.. but sometimes I even wonder about that..

 

[Simoni]

Russian fathers usually never ever call their daughters any kinda princesses of the Universe and never make them feel that they are the greatest of all  and that they should count only on their own in order to achieve the goals they've made in their lives.

JC:  My wife Marina totally disagrees with your statement...

Maybe it's because your experiences are different?  You are very young, and did not have the traditional russian ussr upbringing?

All I know is that her father did call her a special princess and made her feel great and smart and successful.

I'm in Ukraine now, and I see many young fathers telling their little daughters, their princesses, the same thing.

There is a special relationship between fathers and daughters.

[I/O]

I/O, could you explain what you mean about social acceptability? Do you mean in their personal views, how they approach dating in FSU, or...?

Jen: Yes that, but that is the precipitant effect of a "Better Class" of person. Sound snobbish? Maybe, but not meant to be.  BC added quite a bit in this area with his comments.  I guess to be crudely blunt, largely the population of many countries who go seeking abroad are not the type of people I would want to associate with. Poor in attitude, poor in knowledge, poor in social behaviour, poor in personal standards, even simple things like dress standards and so forth, no idea of how to even try to fit in when in another country, plain slobs/losers and tarts. Yes I am somewhat critical of a goodly amount of the women involved also.

I note that largely the people who inhabit RWD are quite a cut above that.  I consider myself to be at the lower end of the knowledge/experience level of the more prolific posters here and that's exactly why I stay. A wise man once said to me, "Always rub shoulders with those better than yourself, you will learn from them, don't waste your time with grubs, they will drag you down".

I've been involved on boards largely dominated by my countrymen and to be frank, with the exception of two guys, it was a waste of time because most of them are people not capable of articulating what day of the week it is, much less expound on the issues of international relationships, albeit if some of them are married to a lady from the FSU.  Grubs married to Tarts.  Rough? Yes indeed, but reality.

RWD has it's share of numbskulls also, but by and large I've noticed a whole nother demographic here, which, IMO is far above the average international partner-seeker, hence my comment that on RWD you would IMO be seeing a skew to the higher end of men and women involved in this pursuit.

KenC and Tigerpaws: I happen to agree that JC's posts in this thread have been well outside her realm of experience and would have been better if they had been much shorter and more restrained, however for men of your age/s and experience, your methods of dealing with her/posts in this thread have left a lot to be desired IMO. 

I/O 

[Jack]

Again catzenmouse, I sincerely thank you.