A "Dear John " letter, or effecient scam?

[Jack]

I saw one of the members in the Starting Out section had wrote about his 'Dear John" letter.  I really don't think it was a Dear John letter and as such wanted to reply to phantom in the area I thought my response was most correctly suited.


A Dear John letter phantom? 

Not likely my friend. You have been scammed since your first letter exchange.

phantom I have seen scenarios like yours played out time and time again, nothing more than an elaborate scam.  Am I 100% sure?  No, I am not. Only 98.5% sure. There is that 1.5% chance this was not a scam, but as you can see, I seriously doubt it. And of course I am only expressing to you my own opinion. Others may believe and tell you she was 100% legit.

Too many little red flags here phantom.  You did not catch them the first time out, but you will for sure the next time.

A Russian woman telling you she loves you before even meeting you?  Telling you she loves you just from your photo, e-mails and phone calls?   Nope, does not happen.

A Russian lady who writes no English and now she begins to write EVERY day!  ($$$$$)

A Russian lady who speaks no English and tells you to please call you often and whenever you would like?  ($$$$)

A Russian lady who suddenly does not have her phone with her. Possible.

And now, within two weeks of your trip, guess what phantom, just as Baracuda Baranova has long done, just as the man is about to arrive and the scam can go on no longer, as the woman you think you have been writing really does not exist and cannot be produced, the scam has to come to a halt. So the lady says she either (1) finds a new man by accident, she did not mean to fall for this other man, or (2) she has second thought's now and has decided against meeting.  And guess what?  At this point they have completed the scam cycle. And NO ONE can prove otherwise.  Another successfully completed scam.   

$300-$400 from translations, letters, phone calls. Not to bad.

By any chance phantom did you get this ladies home address?   Do you have her cell phone?    This needs to be one of the first things a man must get.  If after a few e-mails a woman will not give you her home address or cell phone, it's time to move on.

This phantom was not a Dear John letter, do not feel like you have been rejected, you have not.  You have simply been scammed and they have milked the scam as long as they could, up to the point where the man was about to come and see this lady, who did not exist. So now was a good time for the scammers to put an end to this successful scam.

[Phil dAmore]

The whole part about not having the phone should have been a major tipoff.   An RW would sooner go outside naked than not take her phone with her. 

[tim 360]

Well said Jack.  For some agencies the $ to be made in letter writing and translations can be quite large and they are very happy to perpetuate a fantasy which the guy may think is the real thing.  

 I don't think any real relationship exists until the guy and girl have spent real face time together in person.  Hence, no dear John letter exists.  

[USCFAN]

An RW would sooner go outside naked than not take her phone with her. 

... gives me an idea ... looks like I'll be 'temporarily' swiping some phones while I'm over there

 

[Shadow]

I agree with Jack that this is a classic symptom of agency-based scam.

[Rvrwind]

Not likely my friend. You have been scammed since your first letter exchange.

Yep, & damned efficiently too, I might add. Get 10 guys like you a month & they are rolling in the cash.
Damn I could just kick myself sometimes.
Chalk another score up for the bad guys & kick me for being honest!!
Got to love livin' in a society where the crooks & trash rise to the top & the good guys can't get ahead!! Go Figure!

[ScottinCrimea]

Perhaps it would be nice to have the name of this agency for future reference.

[Simoni]

Yep, & damned efficiently too, I might add. Get 10 guys like you a month & they are rolling in the cash.
Damn I could just kick myself sometimes.
Chalk another score up for the bad guys & kick me for being honest!!
Got to love livin' in a society where the crooks & trash rise to the top & the good guys can't get ahead!! Go Figure!

Some girls in good agencies do scam guys.  Some girls make a choice between two guys and the guy left out yells "scam!"   

Even Richard says that agencies can have bad girls, talking about his own agency....see his quote below...

I had one slip by me a couple of months back, very slick, but sooner or later they screw up, she did, she's gone in less than a heartbeat. Already off the site & replaced! I caught on a week ago but couldn't call her on it imediately, but did today & she was history before the door hit her in the butt.

Guys, write less and meet in person sooner.  That is the key.

[Rvrwind]

Yes, they do Simoni, The difference is I remove them imediately, I don't keep them around to make money no matter how good looking they are!! Unlike 95% of other agencies.
In 2 years of business i've had 2 that I have removed. Word gets out & the players don't try to even join. For what it costs them to join & then to get the boot when I figure them out just isn't worth the hit to the bank account!  Because they don't get a refund.
But I do agree that less writing & more on the ground time is more productive!

[Simoni]

Yes, they do Simoni, The difference is I remove them immediately, I don't keep them around to make money no matter how good looking they are!! Unlike 95% of other agencies.

Actually, I know of several good agencies that removed girls like this immediately.  That's why it's important to have a good agency.  It does not guarantee success, but it sure keeps the same girl from tricking another guy.

And good agencies also allow a girl to opt out when she picks a man.  In the case of this thread, we don't know the facts.  Maybe the girl decided between two men and the guy left out is unhappy.  Or maybe it was a girl an agency was riding for bucks. 

[Shadow]

Simoni I can understand the 'we do not know' part. As someone who has seen a lot of tactics let me tell you that it is a common trick that a man gets letters until the moment he makes plans to travel. At that time there is a sudden brush off.
There can be hundreds of legitimate reasons for this, however when dealing with sincere women you could see signs like slowing down of communication (fade out), less enthusiasm in letters and such things.
If a man receives one day a letter full of loving language, and the next day a 'dear John' letter, there is something strange going on. And unless the man has lots of time to play detective, the best thing is to take his loss and move on, preferably with another service.

[Simoni]

the best thing is to take his loss and move on...

Even better advice is not to fall in love via email. Instead, write no more than 4 letters, then meet the girl in real life.

[Shadow]

Even better advice is not to fall in love via email. Instead, write no more than 4 letters, then meet the girl in real life.

Good strategy if you have the means and opportunity to take a lot of trips.
Other people like to be a little more sure that their time will not be wasted.
You should always try not to fall in love until you meet face to face. Everything before is none other than pen-pal communication.

[purpletib]

Agreed.  About 3 month writing time should be good.  The soonest I can take a trip will be January, but I have no plans on going in the winter, so i will go as soon as Spring comes.  Therefore, I am waiting to even start writing until December.  I have considered trying a trip around Thanksgiving, so I could start writing next month, but It still seems like it would be too cool out.  Since the first trip will be more of a vacation where I meet some girls, I'd rather it be durring warmer weather.  If the sole purpose was to simply meet FSUW, a trip at the end of November wouldn't be a big deal.  But from what I have read, it is smarter to treat the first trip as a vacation than a dating opportunity. 

[viking]

Just remember that there are real women out there who will correspond with you, phone, email and so forth. Who do have a valid address and will meet you in person. They are very real. But not necessarily honest. You meet them in person, everything goes ok, you come home thinking I have a winner and THEN, comes the scam. Your guard is down because you met her,  spent time with her, and she asked for nothing. Now something happens, she asks for some small money, then more and..... Professional daters. The worst. (From personal experience)

[Bruno]

Just remember that there are real women out there who will correspond with you, phone, email and so forth. Who do have a valid address and will meet you in person. They are very real. But not necessarily honest. You meet them in person, everything goes ok, you come home thinking I have a winner and THEN, comes the scam. Your guard is down because you met her,  spent time with her, and she asked for nothing. Now something happens, she asks for some small money, then more and..... Professional daters. The worst. (From personal experience)

From personal experience, you have more worst that professional dater...

You have these that you mmet, marry, spend some year together... one evening, you make passionate love together... the next evening, she say that you can go out, that she don't need you anymore since she have receive their paper ( green card )... yes, i mean a GCG... here, since the "DV" thing is not like in US, she will be passionate, good wife, good mother, etc... but you have a limit date... it is the date when she receive the nationality... in some case, i think that so women need to receive a oscar for the best actress...

Very difficult to detect them... and they hurt a lot... all these scammer and pro-dater are mainly financial loss... a GCG is a financial & emotional lost... and i don't speak about the years used for nothing... gold digger are similar, professional in long term act... i was lucky, i am not rich enough for attract a gold digger...

The only advice who protect against so ladies is these that JB and KenC have repeat several time... "too much good to be true"... if you are ugly, old, but rich... and that you attract a cute, young, sexy, sexual, attractive, etc... young woman, be suspicious...

[phantom]

Well, actually it was not a scam, it was handled through the cindy agency, where many men have met there wives through.  Secondly, we did talk on the phone more than once.  She never asked for money, she just met somone and that was it.

[Shadow]

Well, actually it was not a scam, it was handled through the cindy agency, where many men have met there wives through.  Secondly, we did talk on the phone more than once.  She never asked for money, she just met somone and that was it.

Read the comments of Jack once again. If she declares her love for you, 'meeting someone' is not an option unless you screwed up in a royal way.

[phantom]

She didn't actually declare love, just "Concern' and important person in her life.  Had no passport at the time, so I think yes, what a screw up, so she got tired of waiting.  Have it now, just waiting to get the time off, and over this wonderful virus I caught.

[Shadow]

She didn't actually declare love, just "Concern' and important person in her life.  Had no passport at the time, so I think yes, what a screw up, so she got tired of waiting.  Have it now, just waiting to get the time off, and over this wonderful virus I caught.

Your own earlier writing:

The letter before the Dear John, she was talking about soul-mates, and love.  We really should try to make our aim.

While I thhink that an answer in the line of "I must first get my passport and can visit in about three months" would be enough for her to cool down, I guess that you were reading more in to her letters, or have gotten different insight since.

[phantom]

Yes, different insights.  No big deal now, since that time.  Just waiting for the time off, and to get better.  Then probably Tver.  Plus, one of the ladies that I was writing, in Ukraine, with the other "Dear John", just sent me a letter, she's still waiting, and will wait.  Who knows what I'll do, just go soon.