Ladies, can you help us understand a "Traditional Woman"?

[Kuna]

A high class, well mannered traditional woman would do even better in a long distance r'ship because such women should be naturally programmed to waiting, patience, monogamy and loyality. This is my very IMHO and many women who are spoiled would disagree.
[/quote

In another thread Lily menitoned the above and I thought it might be interesting to have the ladies here define what they see as a "Traditional Woman" as opposed to someone who is "spoiled".

The marriage sites would like us to believe all RW are a certain type and we know that's not true. 

Ladies, what is a traditional woman?  How would a man know when he has found one?

How about spoiled women?  What would the signs be if someone was spoiled?

[Lily]

Oh what a tough question.. My bad ...    Selber schuld, as a German would say to that 

In my very IMHO, and in very short, I'd tell a traditional woman would be the one who shares a vision that the man is a sort of her senior in a relationship. No age is meant. Generally speaking, this would be her ability to recognise that he is more stronger, more clever, more smart, more able than herself. An ability to rely on him, to submit herself to him.

I did not mean MEN in general. I mean THE particular man that the woman has chosen for herself.

[Jazzyclassy]

To my mind traditional  women are the ones who as Lily told are programmed to waiting, being patient and be so to say one man woman , that means faithful and always support her partner and help him in any possible way , she  should be in harmony to be behind her husband , so is the word in Russian zamuzh , that means to be behind her hubby, that means that she can advise , she can try and influence his  decision for example but the last word always should come from a man , as he is stronger and is the head of the family in some way.
Also traditional woman understands  her options  and large variety of choices as well , she might be simple housewife like a robot, or she can be a housewife with a soul , able to support, help and in some way guide her man but when he never ever notices that kinda leadership from her, she can guide him if she sees he is not coping with the role of a strong man for example but she would never ever let him understand that it was her decisions to do this or that cos she always wants to maintain strong abilities and confident character in her man , she helps him to feel himself stronger and he really does grow in this particular way , so she really does help him to develop within his inner world. That means that traditional women are rather strong women with strong spirit and are able to define their moral values in any situation  and always know what they are striving for and even if they are left alone by any means they wont be alone for a long time, usually such women are always married and have no problems with marital status.
Also traditional women have their own opinion on this or that matter but they wont press men with their own opinion , they would just agree on him saying so for example, if she sees that situation is going somewhere really wrong, then she might speak up  how would she acted in this way ,and usually man agrees with her and admits that this is a fine method to solve the problem for example. Traditional woman  means not a slave, she just allows man to be  a Man not a man like her maintenance tool only


Spoiled women are the ones who are not comfortable with their role as a mother , wife , housewife, physiological support in the family , a person who will  help and support each members of her family , these are the ones who still are searching their ego somewhere in luxurious shops , travelings, all the things which they think housewife will lack of and will never experience  anything in the world apart from washing the dishes, which is obviously wrong.
Spoiled women think that this or that man does not deserve her cos she is much more better and she deserves all the diamonds in the world and if he wants to win her he needs to do something special to commit some deed which could send her  to heaven or something like that , those women usually never want kids and are hardly talk about doing anything about the house, those women do not care about her hubby's career in a way that she wont support and help him when he has tough times at work for example , though she is always willing to ask money from him for her next shopping journey. She does not care how he manages such hard work , all she cares about is how he will support her and give her money everyday for her woman's needs. Those type of women probably realise them being useless maybe only when they are 80 without any kids and their hubbies dead cos of hard work in order to maintain them.

well  but you see it is not like these categories , there are traditional women with a bit of spoiled ones, there are spoiled women with a bit of traditional thing, Life is absolutely various , so are women , they are all different and they hardly can fit into my groups which I depicted just now, women are very deep by their nature , they can experience so many emotions at a time that men would die if they had such kinda blast of emotions at once, so do not please think that there exist only these 2 types of women , there are a lot of categories of them and they are all good in some way

you should treat any women with respect as without them you can not live:)

[Lily]

Jazzy - I applaud

I'd say spoiled woman is the one who believes that she is entitled to get benefits just because of the fact that she is a woman. The one who thinks that men owe her gifts, money, attention and affection. The word 'duty' is not in her vocabulary.

I also have to specify about owing something to someone. This is a very important word here. A traditional woman does want attention and affection, but if she is in love, she will humbly beg for this. She knows that the man does not owe her them.

[Lily]

By the way, I think a successful social climber can be a TW at the same time.
Traditionality reflects in the way she treats her man.

Has anyone seen the "Guinevere" (1999) by Audrey Wells? Remember the scene when Deborah tells that a mature woman would never look at the man with awe? My opinion is, a TW mostly would. Age does nothing to do with that.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0160338/

Btw, it would be a good point to consider when having lots of arguments on the age difference here.

[TigerPaws]

To my mind traditional  women are the ones who as Lily told are programmed to waiting, being patient and be so to say one man woman , that means faithful and always support her partner and help him in any possible way , she  should be in harmony to be behind her husband , so is the word in Russian zamuzh , that means to be behind her hubby, that means that she can advise , she can try and influence his  decision for example but the last word always should come from a man , as he is stronger and is the head of the family in some way.
Also traditional woman understands  her options  and large variety of choices as well , she might be simple housewife like a robot, or she can be a housewife with a soul , able to support, help and in some way guide her man but when he never ever notices that kinda leadership from her, she can guide him if she sees he is not coping with the role of a strong man for example but she would never ever let him understand that it was her decisions to do this or that cos she always wants to maintain strong abilities and confident character in her man , she helps him to feel himself stronger and he really does grow in this particular way , so she really does help him to develop within his inner world. That means that traditional women are rather strong women with strong spirit and are able to define their moral values in any situation  and always know what they are striving for and even if they are left alone by any means they wont be alone for a long time, usually such women are always married and have no problems with marital status.
Also traditional women have their own opinion on this or that matter but they wont press men with their own opinion , they would just agree on him saying so for example, if she sees that situation is going somewhere really wrong, then she might speak up  how would she acted in this way ,and usually man agrees with her and admits that this is a fine method to solve the problem for example. Traditional woman  means not a slave, she just allows man to be  a Man not a man like her maintenance tool only


Spoiled women are the ones who are not comfortable with their role as a mother , wife , housewife, physiological support in the family , a person who will  help and support each members of her family , these are the ones who still are searching their ego somewhere in luxurious shops , travelings, all the things which they think housewife will lack of and will never experience  anything in the world apart from washing the dishes, which is obviously wrong.
Spoiled women think that this or that man does not deserve her cos she is much more better and she deserves all the diamonds in the world and if he wants to win her he needs to do something special to commit some deed which could send her  to heaven or something like that , those women usually never want kids and are hardly talk about doing anything about the house, those women do not care about her hubby's career in a way that she wont support and help him when he has tough times at work for example , though she is always willing to ask money from him for her next shopping journey. She does not care how he manages such hard work , all she cares about is how he will support her and give her money everyday for her woman's needs. Those type of women probably realise them being useless maybe only when they are 80 without any kids and their hubbies dead cos of hard work in order to maintain them.

well  but you see it is not like these categories , there are traditional women with a bit of spoiled ones, there are spoiled women with a bit of traditional thing, Life is absolutely various , so are women , they are all different and they hardly can fit into my groups which I depicted just now, women are very deep by their nature , they can experience so many emotions at a time that men would die if they had such kinda blast of emotions at once, so do not please think that there exist only these 2 types of women , there are a lot of categories of them and they are all good in some way

you should treat any women with respect as without them you can not live:)

Jazzyclassy,

Of everything you have ever written this is by far your best work, you have put forth the best explanation of what a "Traditional Russian Woman" is I have ever read. Well done.

TigerPaws

[catzenmouse]

Well Tiger Paws got there first so I'll just say I agree with his assessment of your post Jazzy. Well Done!

Ken

[Blues Fairy]

it might be interesting to have the ladies here define what they see as a "Traditional Woman" as opposed to someone who is "spoiled".

I don't think these two are opposites.  A traditional woman ("Kinder, Küche, Kirche") could be as spoiled as a mega-modern career woman.

[Serebro]

Jazzy, I agree with you.

Your message was very informative and I hope that after reading this western men will not write to women that they are very glad to find a sexual slave as they like to dominate...that's exactly what most of them mean by a traditinal woman...

[Wayne B]

Jazzy, I agree with you.

Your message was very informative and I hope that after reading this western men will not write to women that they are very glad to find a sexual slave as they like to dominate...that's exactly what most of them mean by a traditinal woman...

     Serebro, that is not true...in our 'house hold'   Anna rules our home :crackthewhip: :hairraising:

[groovlstk]

Jazzy, I agree with you.

Your message was very informative and I hope that after reading this western men will not write to women that they are very glad to find a sexual slave as they like to dominate...that's exactly what most of them mean by a traditinal woman...

Serebro, I think you'd find a wide variety of definitions for what men consider a "traditional women." Authors of shlock studies like those cited by Dan in other threads always assume the most extreme definition (i.e., a traditional woman is a subservient scullery maid and child-bearing machine for her domineering husband) and then smugly paint us all with the same brush.

FWIW, my definition of a traditional woman is one for whom family comes first and foremost; one who is willing to fight hard to make our relationship work rather than considering it disposable like so many other aspects of contemporary life in the US. It has nothing to do with her wanting to cook and clean for me or stay home and be a homemaker. My wife fits my definition of a traditional woman yet she had a brilliant career in Moscow which she will resume soon here (she just received her Employment Authorization Card), we share all household chores (although there are definitely some chores that she "owns" and some that are strictly mine), etc.

It's easy to clump all of us RWD guys together as wanting the same things in life, but when you look closely our needs, desires, and goals are as varied as those of the women we pursue(d).

[Serebro]

Serebro, I think you'd find a wide variety of definitions for what men consider a "traditional women."

I agree with you, but I speak from my own experience, that's all.

[jen]

Hi all,

I'm curious what you think - the original question was about "traditional women," not necessarily specifically Russian (although it was implied). Do you think there is some cultural specificity to what a "traditional woman" is like in the Russian context? As opposed to U.S. or other countries? I know that there has been plenty of discussion about the idea that there are more "traditional" women (which can mean different things to different people) in Russia than in the U.S. But presumably, there are still some here, too. I think Blues Fairy and others have made a good point about variability and the danger of stereotypes. However, if we are talking about cultural ideals, does being "traditional" mean the same thing in Russia as it does in the U.S.? Has anyone, in their cross-cultural experiences living in both countries, had ideas about this?

j.

[Kuna]

Hi all,

I'm curious what you think - the original question was about "traditional women," not necessarily specifically Russian (although it was implied). Do you think there is some cultural specificity to what a "traditional woman" is like in the Russian context? As opposed to U.S. or other countries? I know that there has been plenty of discussion about the idea that there are more "traditional" women (which can mean different things to different people) in Russia than in the U.S. But presumably, there are still some here, too. I think Blues Fairy and others have made a good point about variability and the danger of stereotypes. However, if we are talking about cultural ideals, does being "traditional" mean the same thing in Russia as it does in the U.S.? Has anyone, in their cross-cultural experiences living in both countries, had ideas about this?

j.

Jen,  I haven't lived in the FSU but I have a short comment about the concept of a "Traditional western woman" in Australia.

Just this morning on TV I saw a high profile TV presenter (a feminist) make me wonder if any Australian woman remembers what "traditional" is.

There was a bit of joking about men waiting around for women (apparently a whole year during his lifetime)... You know... waiting outside of shops... waiting for her to get ready... etc.

The TV presenter said, "What, you don't want to wait for us but you expect us to cook and clean for you"?

It's been a LONG time and many experiences since I met a woman who invited me over for dinner and cooked. I'd be invited several time to dinners but most of the time food was bought in or at times we ended up going out for dinner.  (Yes, I frequently cooked for dates...  I enjoy it).

When I was married it seemed more important to work that extra hour or two and then go to a restaurant.

I meet many women that don't want children, or even worse, ridicule women who do want children.

Not only do I not see many "traditional women" - I don't think many people have a concept of what that is.

For me, a traditional woman (like my mother, grandmother and my sisters to some extent) are woman that put family first and take pride in nurturing their families.  It doesn't mean they didn't work... it means work was a way to help provide for the family and not just provide for ones self.

Our consumer driven society has created many opportunities but families have suffered.

What I was looking for when I went seeking a partner in Ukraine ws someone that would put as much effort into family as I want to...

Kuna

(Oh, a traditional woman in the outback used to be "the lady on the homestead"... now it's the gravel-voiced she-man that can outdrink most city men)   

[jen]

Hi Kuna and all,

The last few lines of your post reminded me that the counterpart of the "traditional woman" is, I guess, the "traditional man," although people seem to talk less about that...maybe that is a little off track for this thread, but I am curious as to whether men here think about themselves as "traditional men" or if that is something they aspire to...

j.

[Kuna]

jen,

I definitely see myself as having "traditional values" but I'm honest enough to admit that I haven't always lived by them. 

The turing point in my decisions was when I was ready to settle down...  I didn't find the type of girl I imagined building a family with so I decided to look further afield.  It was ironic that I'd met smeone at home that "could" have been the one if we'd met at a different time...  but after travelling and meeting My Girl there was really no decision to make.  She's everything I could have hoped for.

Kuna

[Dar]

A traditional woman? it depends on what you mean by "traditional" and what country you are implying here.
But if you are talking about spoiled women, the same definition applies to all of them.

A spoiled woman is one who first of all loves herself. She is never satisfied with what she has or gets. She always expects more from people around her. Often it is her habit to behave impulsively and never correct her mistakes. This type of women is accustomed to a certain life style and she will never give it up. As others said above in this thread, this is not aboout cooking or cleaning at all.
She can be a housewife or career woman but still be spoiled.