My uncles advice

[ScottinCrimea]

Be sure that a RW will never make the first move toward reconciliation.  How she will respond to your move is extremely variable and will depend on her past experiences and the reasons for the initial break up as well as the manner in which you behaved at that time.  If you think she's worth another shot, go for it.  Better to not have to always think, "what if?".  But be prepared for things to go either way.

[I/O]

Well its a womans' prerogative to change their minds

Perogative maybe, but reality? Bullsheet.  Biggest furfey ever sold on the human race that men don't change their minds and women do often. Bullsheet, once a woman makes up her mind, particularly a Russian women, 10 men and a 1/2 dozen good dogs wont shift her.

I/O

[Serebro]

One very obvious difference is that a RW needs assurances of commitment and stability more than the average AW, especially since she is giving up her homeland, family and friends to be with you.  You have already shown her that you can't give her that, and I think she will think twice before committing herself again.

well said, one of the best posts I have ever seen.

[pik]

  You have already shown her that you can't give her that, and I think she will think twice before committing herself again.

A biased remark, are you presuming my guilt base on what I wrote or something else?  I broke it off because she was being too difficult to get along with.  -  Scott think about this, if your woman abused you in some way & you left her & then the next day someone tells you that you failed to show your woman you could not provide for her, what would you do Scott?  What would you say to them?

[pik]

well said, one of the best posts I have ever seen.

That's presumptive bulls--t. Not only must she be a woman she must also act like a woman. The woman in question behaved like a child.

[MaxxumUSA]

So how would you handle it if she was an AW instead of a RW?  We have very limited information here so it's very difficult to offer advice other than to state the differences between AW and RW.  One very obvious difference is that a RW needs assurances of commitment and stability more than the average AW, especially since she is giving up her homeland, family and friends to be with you.  You have already shown her that you can't give her that, and I think she will think twice before committing herself again.

Sorry Pik.  Scott is right.  Commitment is NOT dumping your girl when she acts out.  Stability is not running away when you sense a little trouble.

Commitment is about forgiveness of her childish behavior.  Not necessarily acceptance - but forgiveness.  Stability is tellling her you will stick with her - even when she's acting out.

Love is about many things...  true love is when you know all of the flaws and defects about your partner but you still love her/him anyway.  And stick by them - even when you don't particularly agree about some details.

I'm not picking on you...  rather trying to help you realize what scott was originally (from what I read) trying to say.

[pik]

Maxxum, I understand the intent perfectly & I appreciate it. But no, she did not just "act out". What I am saying is no one here knows the details of why I left her and I was putting it mildly when I said she was acting childish. Scott is presuming that I left her for trivial reasons. Now if you will go back to my previous posts you will find that I did not want to give out such personal details because they were not relevant to my original question for the women here. My original posting is all about forgiveness and how to go about it. My reasons for leaving her were and still are quite valid dispite what some here wish to believe. Why can you not give me the benefit of a doubt? I assure each and every one of you here that I believe that the man must stand up & be a man & show that he can provide for her, give to her committment and stabilty, love her and be strong for her. As God is my witness that is my firm belief & I will live by those rules. But it is not a one-way gift! She has to be woman enough to accept these gifts and be woman enough to be responsible for herself and her actions and what she says. Maxxum you will have to trust that I am not an idiot. I did not run away after a little trouble or simply dump her for acting out. I am a serious man searching for serious answers.

[acrzybear]

Well its a woman's' prerogative to change their minds Actually it's anyone's prerogative to change their mind and this is of course over a dozen trips stretched over a period of several years with breaks in between and you still couldn't decide if she was the one you wanted to marry or not?. Sure I screwed up but you'll never hear me say I'm perfect either nor will you ever hear me put down a fellow member of the list for having tried and failed I wasn't putting you down and I give credit to folks that try and don't succeed, but I have no patience for folks that keep doing the same actions over and over that cause them to fail. But at least I'm out there trying my best and taking risks how ever long it takes There's a difference between taking risks and acting foolishly and that is far more important than sitting behind computers glibly putting other people down for their mistakes as some people like to do on lists such as this and others I have seen - without knowing all the facts. I'm sorry sir, was that directed at me?  I was busy planning my trip to Louisville for next week and scheduling my 16 day trip to  to Moscow area in September  

  I deal with people for a living and I'm pretty good at it and from what you have posted so far I would say this venture is NOT for you.  I applaud the fact that you've made several trips, but what was your purpose? Sex? Play tourist? Visit the sites? Do you have any idea of what you want?  

 

[Wist]

 I broke up with a girl in Novorusik because one of her friends told me my girlfriend had a fiancee. Does that make me irresponsible?

[acrzybear]

A biased remark, are you presuming my guilt base on what I wrote or something else?  I broke it off because she was being too difficult to get along with.  The why go back? -  Scott think about this, if your woman abused you in some way Wouldn't even think about going back to that situation& you left her & then the next day someone tells you that you failed to show your woman you could not provide for her, what would you do Scott?  What would you say to them?

Well Pik you post only the facts that you want us to know as if you're looking for folks to give you the "it's ok feel good speech" and then when you're called on it you tell us you don't want to make all the facts public. I have no idea of your intelligence , education or your employment field, but as I said in my previous post-I don't think this endeavor is for you.  I have yet to meet a friend or a woman that isn't difficult to get along with at one time or another (Hell that's me at least half the time), if it's someone you truly care about you don't just leave because it's to much trouble to deal with them.  I think that pretty much sums up your character right there.

[Wist]

 I deal with people for a living and I'm pretty good at it and from what you have posted so far I would say this venture is NOT for you.  I applaud the fact that you've made several trips, but what was your purpose? Sex? Play tourist? Visit the sites? Do you have any idea of what you want?  

Sorry, no my previous comments were not directed at you I just went off on a tangent. As for your other comments I'll not take the bait, too absurd.

[MaxxumUSA]

Pik,

It sounds like she screwed up royally.

I don't need personal details.

If the reasons for you leaving her were and still are valid - then there is no reason for you to pursue her.  From seeing your profile and assuming it is true that you have been to FSU many times - you know there are 1,000 women looking for a good man for every one you talk to.

Given this - why waste time with a woman that is hurting you in some way?

All those things I mention about commitment and stability relate to a woman who is worthy of your attention.  If she is not worthy there is only one word that comes to mind:  "NEXT."

I don't think  you're an idiot.  Actually I think you're smart coming to ask advice about  your situation.  Most all of the men here have given you the advice - that you asked for.

You say on one hand you did not leave her for trivial reasons. (your words)  On the other hand you might be going back for more punishment.  (second sentence my words)  IF this woman has betrayed or hurt or screwed up in some major way that puts you in the position of leaving her - what makes you think she will not do it again?

I posted to Mir about a situation he is going through in another thread.  Basically you cannot change the "WHAT" of what a person "IS."  And KenC I believe is the one in that thread that spoke a very eye opening truth...  Why on god's green earth will you settle for less than what you want?  (VERY paraphrased!)

I broke up with a girl in Novorusik because one of her friends told me my girlfriend had a fiancee. Does that make me irresponsible?

NOPE...  but it would make you a jackass if you tried to get back together with her after she left THAT fiancee.

[acrzybear]

Sorry, no my previous comments were not directed at you I just went off on a tangent. As for your other comments I'll not take the bait, too absurd.

Actually I wasn't baiting you, I was just curious what your thinking was.  If it's to meet someone or to play tourist there's nothing wrong with that.  But to go to a foreign country and not have any idea of the why-That is foolish

[pik]

Well Pik you post only the facts that you want us to know as if you're looking for folks to give you the "it's ok feel good speech" and then when you're called on it you tell us you don't want to make all the facts public. I have no idea of your intelligence , education or your employment field, but as I said in my previous post-I don't think this endeavor is for you.  I have yet to meet a friend or a woman that isn't difficult to get along with at one time or another (Hell that's me at least half the time), if it's someone you truly care about you don't just leave because it's to much trouble to deal with them.  I think that pretty much sums up your character right there.

Read my original post again & you'll find it was NOT about why I left her it was about how best to go back to her if I decide to do so from a womans view. When the thread began to shift in a direction not relavent to my original question I informed everyone I did not wish to go into details of why. Who would want to hear them anyway?? I do not need strokes from you or anyone else here, just good solid opinians. So far I have gotten some very good stuff from others here. So please do not twist my words.

[acrzybear]

Fair enough, all of the other stuff aside the only thing I can think is that if the situation (whatever it may be) was bad enough for you to leave her-Then why would you want to put yourself back into that situation?
 
  The bottom line is that if you feel she is worth pursuing, then put your heart on your sleeve and go all out and let her know how you feel.  If however you are not 100% sure, then I believe that speaks more then the opinions of strangers.

  I don't care if you're pursuing a Russian woman or an American woman-you need to let them know how you feel otherwise nothing will ever happen.

[Blues Fairy]

Basically you cannot change the "WHAT" of what a person "IS." 

Sure but a person can change herself.  Tempus fugit, omnia transit.  

[MaxxumUSA]

Sure but a person can change herself.  Tempus fugit, omnia transit.  

So very true blues...  and this is linked to the desire of her to do so.

[ScottinCrimea]

Pik, based on what information you offered, my advice was sound.  I still don't understand why, if her actions were unforgivable at the time, why they are now?  Are you saying now that you were wrong to send her away?  If so, that's what she needs to hear, as well as a sincere promise that it will never happen again.  But then there's also the little issue of her needing to forgive you.  If you don't see that you also had some fault in this and admit it to her then don't expect her to even consider trying again.

What you both know so far is that you don't like the way that she acts and talks, and she doesn't like that it requires you sending her away and having time pass before you are willing to forgive.  What about the two of you has changed other than the passage of time? I see from your posts that your feelings about her actions are still very negative, so I think it will be hard to convince her that you are sincere and that your feelings have changed.  If you think that a RW is going to admit to all of the blame for a situation, you still have a lot to learn about them.  Heck, most the time it's hard for them to admit that they were ever even a little wrong.

In summary, IMHO, the only way you have a chance of getting back together is to tell her that it was all your fault, that you made a terrible mistake and that you want her to come back and try again.  Then you must promise that you will never send her away again, that you understand that it's all about getting through the tough times as well as the good.  If you are unable to do any of that, then better to not even try.

[William3rd]

Sorry Pik- If I were her, I wouldnt take you back. Early on, you were discussing her having to make changes. Why should she? People are people. You dump her and then come back professing love-if she just changes a few little things.

If you want to go back unconditionally, then maybe. But I think you would be better served in looking elsewhere.

[Gator]

Pik,

I wrote much earlier that the two of you are not good together.  Your new information reinforces my opinion.
 
She is childish, and you are impatient.  If that is how the two of you behave when she is in her hometown, please try to imagine how bad it would be while she is adjusting to life in America. 

It is difficult to make an assessment based on a few sentences from someone.  However, in this case I feel confident that this woman is not for you.
Forget her.  Find a woman who does not push your “upset” buttons.  You may wish to read Mir’s thread about rekindling a relationship.

Your reaction to Crazy Bear’s comments raises an important point about whether your personality is a good fit for RW.  You seemed sensitive to Crazy Bear and you became defensive and reactive in a string of argumentative posts.  A defensive attitude and an impatient, reactive style will not work with RW because that is how many RW can behave.   Perhaps you were not supersensitive and instead just argumentative about proving yourself right.  That is also the trait of many RW, and some of them seem to relish such.  Not me, babe.

[HiTech]

Pik: I am feeling similar to you at the moment including the "Childish". I had the same thoughts as you about just showing up in her town and giving my lady a call. I have since talked to her again, I mentioned my thoughts to her and she said she had a dream about me doing just that.

But one thing I know, is that it will not work between the lady and me.Even though my emotions say different, I just read my notes at the time of things I hated about her again. It reminds me of how it will not work. For how bad it can get going back to one that didn't work see wiz's Dilemma.

Dale

[Dar]

you know there are 1,000 women looking for a good man for every one you talk to.

Given this - why waste time with a woman that is hurting you in some way?

All those things I mention about commitment and stability relate to a woman who is worthy of your attention.  If she is not worthy there is only one word that comes to mind:  "NEXT"

It sounds like.... choose a new car in a shop! Hey, there r thousands women, move on. She is a person, bad or may be good one.
U know, MaxxumUSA, if Pik made a decision to try again with her, that means she worth it. Everyone has the right for second chance and as were said here above, person can change. She might realize her mistakes and regret it.
Here is not question about "to try again or not", Pik asks about the best way to do it. But seems, like not many of u really "hear the question" or just ignore it.

[Dar]

Made a mistake in previous post, sorry...
It sounds like.... choose a new car in a shop! Hey, there r thousands women, move on. She is a person, bad or may be good one.
U know, MaxxumUSA, if Pik made a decision to try again with her, that means she worth it. Everyone has the right for second chance and as were said here above, person can change. She might realize her mistakes and regret it.
Here is not question about "to try again or not", Pik asks about the best way to do it. But seems, like not many of u really "hear the question" or just ignore it.

[MaxxumUSA]

Maxxum, I understand the intent perfectly & I appreciate it. But no, she did not just "act out". What I am saying is no one here knows the details of why I left her and I was putting it mildly when I said she was acting childish. Scott is presuming that I left her for trivial reasons. Now if you will go back to my previous posts you will find that I did not want to give out such personal details because they were not relevant to my original question for the women here. My original posting is all about forgiveness and how to go about it. My reasons for leaving her were and still are quite valid dispite what some here wish to believe.

from Dar:
It sounds like.... choose a new car in a shop!

From me:

Umm...  hell yes.  When my car blows up, starts on fire, and is in disrepair, I choose a new car.  NEXT.

Fine...  if he wants to go with a fire extinguisher, put the flames out, spend time and money to get the car shiney again - that's his choice.  Personally I would shop for a new car, knowing the chances the new car will be better.

[acrzybear]

PIK

Why don't you just fly to Russia, find her and throw yourself onto your sword, admit everything was your fault (even if it wasn't) and get it done with.  If you truly wanted her you wouldn't be asking strangers questions about getting her forgiveness.

  As I said earlier if there was physical or emotional abuse (more so then any normal relationship ) then why even think about going back down that road?  Or perhaps you are a masochist and enjoy the torture