What age would be preferrable to RW?

[Mir]

Interesting 'scientific' article on age differences in relationships:

Do women love older men? Do women find gray hair and wrinkles attractive on men -- as attractive, that is, as a fine, full head of pigmented hair and a vigorous, firm complexion? The evolutionary psychologists suggest yes. They believe that women look for the signs of maturity in men because a mature man is likely to be a comparatively wealthy and resourceful man. That should logically include baldness, which generally comes with age and the higher status that it often confers. Yet, as Desmond Morris points out, a thinning hairline is not considered a particularly attractive state.  
Assuming that women find older men attractive, is it the men's alpha status? Or could it be something less complimentary to the male, something like the following -- that an older man is appealing not because he is powerful but because in his maturity he has lost some of his power, has become less marketable and desirable and potentially more grateful and gracious, more likely to make a younger woman feel that there is a balance of power in the relationship? The rude little calculation is simple: He is male, I am female -- advantage, man. He is older, I am younger -- advantage, woman. By the same token, a woman may place little value on a man's appearance because she values something else far more: room to breathe. Who can breathe in the presence of a handsome young man, whose ego, if expressed as a vapor, would fill Biosphere II? Not even, I'm afraid, a beautiful young woman


Full article : http://www.indiana.edu/~ovid99/angier.html

[KenC]

Thanks jb,
Now maybe Jazzy can see the difference between an insulting, mean and attacking post from those that aren't!
 

[Jazzyclassy]

Oh I see I see:)

do not worry KenC:)))))

[jb]

There was no intent to be mean,,, just an honest warning.  He constantly tries to impose his views on others, he doesn't know what he is dealing with.  He thinks we are as dumb as he is.

We know who Micheal Couch is, and we will expose him for the liar and fraud he is.  He shows up on no military rosters, (Not a General Officer on any register that we can find, not a PhD we can find),  nor is he a on any business scheme we can goggle, mostly he is just a liar.

Simple enough.  Liars are not welcome here.

[Admin]

There was no intent to be mean,,, just an honest warning.  He constantly tries to impose his views on others, he doesn't know what he is dealing with.  He thinks we are as dumb as he is.

We know who Micheal Couch is, and we will expose him for the liar and fraud he is.  He shows up on no military rosters, (Not a General Officer on any register that we can find, not a PhD we can find),  nor is he a on any business scheme we can goggle, mostly he is just a liar.

Simple enough.  Liars are not welcome here.

John,

Please refrain from insulting anyone. I just sent you a PM with more.

- Dan

[jb]

Dan,

I responded to your PM.  Why do you continue to defend liars and cheats?  I thought we were better than that.

[Mir]

Couch? Maybe that is some furniture TG can shift

[Admin]

Dan,

I responded to your PM.  Why do you continue to defend liars and cheats?  I thought we were better than that.

John - you *need* to read your PM's. You also *NEED* to refrain from making accusations or insults.

- Dan

[ecr844]

there's someone by that name who plays hockey for the Halifax Mooseheads... Yet, somehow I suspect they don't get much ice down in the bahamas this time of year.
 

ECR844

[AnastassiaAsh]

VWRW: I never meant you or Turbo in particular, as I said before you are an exception. I never showed you a bat saying Why do you want to marry Turbo? Are you out of your mind?! He is so much older than you!..Bla,bla,bla.. No, I didn't say that. But you are overreacting. I am happy for your relationship and let it be an example for others, especially with a considerable age difference.

No, you are right, I haven't been married to a man 20 years senior, and never will be, but that doesn't mean I don't know a thing about age gap problem. The same way maybe I can say that, if you have never been in a marriage with a guy who is only 5 years older than you, then you don't have a right to talk about it as if you know something about it because you don't….This thinking is ridiculous in this situation. I don't have to put my finger in milk to find out it is hot. Nobody needs to, let's say, go to prison to find out what kind of life or existence is there to be able to say later I know what I am talking about. I don't know what other example I can draw. I suppose this is a typical woman's reaction. ;-) The examples of people's lives that are close and not so close to me are definitely enough for me to know something, leave alone common sense. I know you may argue again that common sense for everybody is different, but oh well, again I am just expressing my opinion.

I want to help people with their relationships, that's why when they come to me I have to advise them what would be the best to do in my opinion, it is up to them at the end what they will actually do: forget my advice and come to me again in two months, or listen and try what I say. Those who followed my advice were grateful and wished they had found me earlier. Hundreds, literally hundreds of people, and not even one came back and said Anastassia, you were wrong. Blowing my own horn…what ever expression you want to use, yes, I can do that because with the same confidence I can say that there are lives of LOTS of people behind me, TONS of situations and MANY years of experience. I am not saying I am the smartest, the most this and the most that, no, I am just saying that I know what I am talking about.

Yes,Turbo, you are close to me, thanks for recommending me to others, I hope your fiancee's interview will go smoothly and you will reunite and it will be happily ever after.

My comment about WWII and men evolved from apes…I meant to say that I see lots of truth in what Mocking Bird said, and it will be as insane to not agree with her as to believe that WWII was won by Americans or that men evolved from apes. But you, VWRW, reminded me that there is different truth for a different person. So now I am saying it is MY truth as well as millions of others (that 20 years age gap is too much for a marriage, and WWII was won by Russians, and men were created by God), but I suppose there are lots of other people who will say that the truth is different and i am wrong and i am sure lots of them will jump out and say Proove it! But I am not going to waste my time to argue about that, so let's just agree to disagree peacefully.

VWRW, you are saying

Did I understand you correctly, you think a man has less ability to be a good husband the older he become?    Maturity, experience and knowledge do not provide ability to be a good husband in your opinion then?

No, this is not what I meant; we are discussing marriages where man is 20 years older than a woman, in that combination. Particular values, interests, physical abilities, characters are typical of a particular age. If you mix people of significant age group difference this drags a whole tail of these things that are different too, the compatibility between these two people become minimum. Add different cultures, languages and even races to that, and success is 1 in a million or even more. But again, you are right, that 1 successful couple still exists and I am in no way crossing it out.

20 years is too much for a couple to have between them to truly have a successful equal satisfying marriage. Again, for the hundredth time, my hat is off in awe of others who have done it successfully the other way.

For what are you going to "use" your husband.  For moving furnature?     

 
Ha-ha, I was laughing at that one, it is great you put smilies at the end. Well, he IS tall and I am already ‘using’ him for that, works pretty well.  I didn't quite get though the connection in your thoughts between "You still have not answered my question about 20 years is too much. Too much for what". and  "For what are you going to "use" your husband.  For moving furnature?"       

Jazzy, thanks for coming out, I think you were right, she was kind of harsh. KenC, I think Jazzy was right here, and her English has nothing to do with this, I am sure she was able to feel it as a woman.

[Mir]

WW2 was not won by Americans or Russians, it was won by the Allies together. One can argue who had the biggest role in the victory. Through out history wars have been won by the nations with more wealth and certainly the USA had most wealth, so my vote for being the most valuable player in winning WW2 would go to the USA.

No one who had any brains has ever said that man evolved from apes. Certainly Darwin never claimed this.
Yes man may have been created by God but God has a system of doing things.Darwin attempted to try and understand the system through which man and other creatures great and small were created..

How much gap is the right gap? Well here everyone can have a purely personal openion depending on ones needs, desires and opportunities.

[catzenmouse]

WW2 was not won by Americans or Russians, it was won by the Allies together.

Mir,

 You just get more mixed up every day. Must have been that last birthday that pushed you over the edge to senility!

 WWII was won by a little old lady from Halifax, Nova Scotia named Elizabeth Longmire. She beat the Axis Powers personally and then came home in a row boat all the way from Europe by herself. During the trip she fought off killer whales and sharks, rescued a dozen stranded sailors, and helped out a poor sea bass that was caught in an abandoned fishing net.

 Get your facts straight next time okay?

Ken

[I/O]

AnastassiaAsh: I understand you may well have exposure to a number of people in this pursuit and I have certainly never promoted as being a great idea, age gap relationships.

My point is that if anyone including you, me or the next person has no data evidence to support a claim then it is merely hot air. It matters to me little what anyones "Truth" is. What I am interested in is dispelling some of the stereotype myths that surround this pursuit. In my own situation, although age gap, it is far from the extreme end of age gap relationships.

However, I can find no recorded data to support the assertion age gap relationships in the Western / Russian marriage sphere are more inclind to fail. It may well be so, but without hard data it is simply opinion and to that extent, sorry but no I don't believe you. I spend my life hearing "It is this way" from 280 odd workers and rarely does their version of "It is this way" hold up under serious investigation.

I/O 

[vwrw]

Thank for good wishes. That sounded almost sincerely  We also wish you and your husband all the best.

I didn't quite get though the connection in your thoughts between "You still have not answered my question about 20 years is too much. Too much for what". and  "For what are you going to "use" your husband.  For moving furnature?"       

I want my husband to be someone who is able to make me laugh, to be interesting in communication, to be able to satisfy my sexual needs, to be supportive of me if there is need, to be my friend and more things.   Even though my man is 38 years older than me he very well manages to be that someone I dreamed of and to satisfy all my requirements I had to potential husband.  So to my opinion our age difference is not too much.    What needs do you have of your husband that a 20 years older man may not do? Now I hope the connection is understandable.

I meant to say that I see lots of truth in what Mocking Bird said, and it will be as insane to not agree with her as to believe that WWII was won by Americans or that men evolved from apes.

So, everyone who does not agree with Mocking Bird is INSANE? To my mind insane people are those who state “know-it-all”. I find most of Mocking Bird’s assumptions to be ridiculous and naive. I do not agree with them.

 

No, you are right, I haven't been married to a man 20 years senior, and never will be, but that doesn't mean I don't know a thing about age gap problem.
The examples of people's lives that are close and not so close to me are definitely enough for me to know something, leave alone common sense.

Maybe most of those examples of people you have helped all had big age differences and were unhappy and that is why you are so against it.  Do you not know anyone who got married with little age difference and ended up with an unhappy miserable life or a divorce?    Don't you think there are more unhappy married couples among those with similar age?   Why not just suggest that no one gets married?     If no one ever married divorce would be a thing of the past. 

And last, I am sorry to disappoint you but knowing a thing about age gap does not qualify you to assert that you know more than other people do.

[I/O]

just suggest that no one gets married

I was on that line 20 years ago. "Stay single, live a life of sin and bring all my kids up the same way".

I/O

[WHHatton]

Hello,

 I am new here, really I have been reading a lot lately, I would like to add that I am married to a beautiful and wonderful Russian woman 21 years younger than myself and we have been married for 4 wonderful years now. While 4 years is not as long as some here we are doing very well together and have a 2 month old son, I can not imagine life with out my wife.

 I find all of this discussion about a big age difference interesting because my wife is very happy with our age difference and has said many time she prefers men older than she is by at least 15 years. This is a very personal issue and for others to say it is wrong shows their lack of understanding of the personal nature of this issue.

[SANDRO43]

I think I mentioned in the earlier "Age" debate that perhaps age differences should be viewed more in terms of percentages rather than absolute numbers, also with due consideration to the time in life when they occur.

To make two personal examples, the girl I later married/divorced was 16 and I 22 when we met, and those few 6 years (about +40%, -27%) really put us 1 generation apart. In contrast, I met recently a 49 y.o. FSUW, and our 15-year (about +30%, -23%) difference seemed rather insignificant in comparison .

[KenC]

Jazzy, thanks for coming out, I think you were right, she was kind of harsh. KenC, I think Jazzy was right here, and her English has nothing to do with this, I am sure she was able to feel it as a woman.

Anastassia,
You surprise me here.  You came out with some rather aggressive opinions.  Would you expect the opponents to reply with sugar coated words?  Jazzy accused VWRW of insults and meanness.  I see VWRW's response in proportionate voracity to your post.  If she was "harsh" then so were you.
KenC

[vwrw]

Hello,

 I am new here, really I have been reading a lot lately, I would like to add that I am married to a beautiful and wonderful Russian woman 21 years younger than myself and we have been married for 4 wonderful years now. While 4 years is not as long as some here we are doing very well together and have a 2 month old son, I can not imagine life with out my wife.

 I find all of this discussion about a big age difference interesting because my wife is very happy with our age difference and has said many time she prefers men older than she is by at least 15 years. This is a very personal issue and for others to say it is wrong shows their lack of understanding of the personal nature of this issue.
ngs

Welcome WHHatton! I am delighted to meet one more exception I am happy to hear that you have a happy marriage and a new addition to your family.   I am sure your young son brings you much joy.  Congratulations!

[I/O]

WHHatton: Welcome, perhaps you would like to start an into thread in that section.  BTW, nothing seems to touch the hot buttons around these boards quite like the age gap debate.

I/O

[WHHatton]

Thank you all, I have been reading a great deal and yes the age debate seems to bring out some interesting discussions. Really I do not understand what is the problem this is a personal issue for each couple to decide between themselves not something for others to say is right or wrong.

[Turboguy]

They do seem to stir up more feelings than most anything we talk about and yet most every time we talk about them the posts are identical.   I almost think we could just adopt a string of 100 typical replies and everytime the word is mentioned we paste in those 100 threads and lock it down.  

Sandro, I can agree that 6 years difference at age 16 for her may be less than 15 years for an older woman but I still think there are so many individual characteristics, needs, feelings, and emotions involved that it is too personal for any rules to be set up except if it does not feel right to you don't do it and if it does follow your heart.   If you don't have any experience expect a few people to disagree with you.

WH, you are right on but there are some people who just think they know what is best for everyone else as far as I can tell.   It is totally a personal choice.

[AnastassiaAsh]

AnastassiaAsh: I understand you may well have exposure to a number of people in this pursuit and I have certainly never promoted as being a great idea, age gap relationships.

And why isn't that a great idea, I/O, if i may ask? And the same to KenC, you stated almost the same idea somewhere else, that this definitely isn't for everybody, something like that...

What needs do you have of your husband that a 20 years older man may not do? Now I hope the connection is understandable.

The list is too long to write. 

So, everyone who does not agree with Mocking Bird is INSANE? To my mind insane people are those who state “know-it-all”. I find most of Mocking Bird’s assumptions to be ridiculous and naive. I do not agree with them.

Let's just agree to disagree. i have my opinion and you have yours and that's fine. I just stated my opinion.

Maybe most of those examples of people you have helped all had big age differences and were unhappy and that is why you are so against it.  Do you not know anyone who got married with little age difference and ended up with an unhappy miserable life or a divorce?    Don't you think there are more unhappy married couples among those with similar age?   Why not just suggest that no one gets married?     If no one ever married divorce would be a thing of the past. 

I talked and helped many people with absolutely all cases that you mentioned. Yes, you are right, small age gap doesn't mean you won't be divorced either, there is risk in every case, only for some reason there are more, much more people who i know who didn't succeed. And i can tell you it is mostly because of this issue we are discussing. The risk in such case just becomes yet higher. Frankly speaking most of the older men corresponding with very young women don't even get to the stage of marriage, they are all in the stage of visiting, talking and clearing out silly ridiculous misunderstandings caused by lack of knowledge of things that are typical of behavior, way of thinking and morals of people of big age difference...and lack of common sense.

And last, I am sorry to disappoint you but knowing a thing about age gap does not qualify you to assert that you know more than other people do.

OK, the only thing that is left for me to do is to send my clients with big age gap straight to you and Turbo for some piece of advice.    Who knows? Maybe after that we will see many more successful couples with age difference. Isn't that the ultimate goal? 

[AnastassiaAsh]

I was on that line 20 years ago. "Stay single, live a life of sin and bring all my kids up the same way".
I/O

That was sarcastic, right?

Rvrwind, are you reading this? Where are you? Crawl out! 

By the way, is it just with my computer or not? Dan, I can't right click on your website anywhere! Hmmm...

[Gator]

AnastasiaAsh,

Your long response to VWRW says little.  Also, you ignored my comments on why an older man would make an even better husband than a younger man.   Clearly your mind is closed on this subject.  This is not startling because most women your age feel the same.  To me, it parallels the mentality of the many older men who could never be attracted to a woman their age.   So recognize that before you disparage such men.   

You can assert that many May-December marriages have problems, and I will believe you without the need for statistics.  It is obvious.  Likewise, a large number of couples of the same age will have problems as a wife ages and a youthful man turns his eye elsewhere.  Not all men will do that, and not all May-December marriages will fail.

P. s.  My rightclick also does not function.