What age would be preferrable to RW?

[jen]

Hi everyone,

Wow, this thread did liven up. OK, I have a follow-up question for Lily, Anastassia, JC, Blues F, and any other women who are still following the thread...

There has been a lot of discussion here about age differences, mostly concerning what age woman AM are looking for. Less direct discussion about what RW are looking for. One thing you can read on the agency websites and that I sometimes hear from RW with whom I've talked is that RW are open to and perhaps even looking for men who are older than them, with the understanding that these men will be more mature, stable, experienced, etc.

Do the ladies on this thread feel that way? Understanding that what you are really looking for is an *individual* person with the qualities you need, what were your ideas about age when you started this process? And did they change? Were you looking for someone older, younger, roughly the same age, or not important? And why?

thanks for your thoughts,
jen

[KenC]

If you are here for a long time you should or at least read the forum for sometime, you can obviously see the line many men stick here,  this prejuidce and well known statement can be read in almost every topic here that something like  women older 25 have nothing to count for in this international dating .

I respectfully disagree with your conclusion here.  I have been here for a long time too and I don't see men here saying this at all.  In fact, I think the overwhelming number of men here are saying just the opposite of what you claim.  Care to give some examples to back up your claim?

So what are you expecting from normal women to think about such men?

Which men are you speaking of?  The one's here or the one's in your faulty (IMO) conclusion?

I mean I could have understood that if it was like 2 of 100000 of men  but it occurs that every 2-d man wants a young lovely babydoll for himself,

Another false and misleading statement IMO.  I read exactly the opposite of what you claim here.  Care to prove your point with some facts or examples?
 

I consider it to be the greatest curse in our 21 century!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Finallly maybe somebody can do something about it, or I will die and that sort of thing will progress and progress , I gues that is what will happen unfortunately

Jazzy,
Before you go off and claim that I am picking on you, stop, read and think about my comments.  You make the claim that "many" men here want a sub 25 year old woman and that every other man here falls into that category.  I disagree with your claim.  In fact I believe that the numbers are overwhelming in support of my view.  If you look back at the men that have posted on this thread for example, only Tigerpaws would fit your profile.
KenC

[TigerPaws]

HAY! When I met the lady who was to become my wife she had just turned 26. 

TigerPaws

[AnastassiaAsh]

Jen, i was searching for a man 3-5 years older, maximum 7. I was looking for my EQAUL. Can't even start imagining being with an older that that man. I wasn't looking for a millionair either... Just a young, attractive, very smart, highly educated, successful, Christian man. Nothing that i am not myself...EM has maybe only 3-5 guys like that, but not Christians, so that is zero for me....Match.com had much more...

[Blues Fairy]

Understanding that what you are really looking for is an *individual* person with the qualities you need, what were your ideas about age when you started this process? And did they change? Were you looking for someone older, younger, roughly the same age, or not important? And why?

Like I said before, I was not specifically looking, I was just having fun on international and Russian dating sites for a while.  My online acquaintances, at least those which resulted in meetings, ranged from 25 to 42 and spanned US, Europe, and Russia.  My eventual choice happens to be 5 years my senior - I think it's an ideal age difference for marriage, considering that men are generally slower to mature than women.   

[TigerPaws]

Men, Mature?  The difference between man and boys is the price of their toys.. While I may grow older I will never grow up completely.

TigerPaws

[kgh]

I was just thinking the same thing.

Lily - I believe if you were here in the USA it would be easy for you to find a good partner in life.  As for RWD members being interested - I thought you had a man now?  And many of us are committed to women already.

BUT - in a generalizing way - when us WM look at all the thousands of profiles on sites like the one you mentioned - Elenas Models - we see those younger hotties as premium targets.

I used match.com when I was single and dating here in the USA.  Wow...  it's like complete role reversal from FSU and elenasmodels.  The women are definitely in charge there.  Online dating is so prevalent in the USA that almost every single person here has a profile on match.com, cupid.com, or some other singles website.  An attractive women with nice photos and profile can easily rack up anywhere from 25 to over 100 incoming emails a day.  In an area like NYC it would be over 100 easy.  Most women here never need to initiate an email correspondence because of this.

I also would be interested to see how you did with a match.com profile.

Lily,

I don't post here much.  I'm more of a lurker with so much information to assimilate from the knowledgable people here!  But I must pipe up and agree with Maxxum here.  My female friends have still had to sift through hundreds of emails, but they were in control of the communication process by only posting a photo. 

sincerely,
Kenny

[vwrw]

When I began to look for man from foreign country I gave preference to older man.    I can understand why an older man goes to Russia to find a woman.  American women mainly look for men in a similar age.  Men are visual and like a younger woman.  In his country he can find a woman his age or in Russia he can find a beautiful younger woman.  It makes sense to me that an good man who would be a good husband and is older goes to Russia looking for a wife.

With younger man it does not make sense as much.   I do not believe and will never that young American women are worse than young Russian women.  Good young men can find young women in America so I worry more about the kind of men who would come to Russia looking.  Perhaps I would end up on the other side of the world with someone who was crazy or something of the sort.   So I am one of those who complies with what some think the agencys say that is false.

[Hub]

Hub, you are contradicting your own statement highlited above.  If he wants a higher quality woman to compensate for the headaches of bringing her to the US, she may as well want a higher quality man to compensate for the headache of relocating to the US, dependence etc.  It's a two-way bargain, in which neither is entitled to bigger "compensation" than the other.   

No I am not contradicting.  You have fallen into the same trap that I noted in my original post.

I have stated the situation as it exists.  You have stated a situation which you want to exist.

Best if a given thread can concentrate on one issue and start another thread for the other issue.

[Hub]

Quote from: Hub on Yesterday at 10:29:15 PM
 Well such a western man is going to reply that he can get hundreds of women just like her in his home country.   

I think that this does not adequately reflect the reality, although I may be wrong on this. In theory, this man may be able to get someone at home, but still has not find the one for himself. Some answers to that are in the thread "Experiences with American Women'. Some men are choosy, and they have all rights to be it. They want a quality woman. Given that I have quite a lot to offer, I think I could probably compete with Western women for the Western men who don't have this RW thing.

Lily, we may just be nit picking over some fine points, but you did not fully quote the relevant part of what I said: 

"For instance, the woman may say she can get a handsome and nice bodied man in her home country near her age, so she wants the same in a western man. Well such a western man is going to reply that he can get hundreds of women just like her in his home country."

This goes back to my original assertion.  The WM seeking a RW/UW will not settle for the same thing he can find/attract in his back yard.  He will be seeking to trade up to offset the headaches he will go through.

Also, earlier you noted you didn't think the headaches would be all that much for the man and that you could help him with the procedures.  However, if you will think back about what you have read in other threads regarding some of the horror stories of what can happen in the immigration process, you can see that there is really nothing much that you can do to help.  Much of it is out of the hands of the man and woman.

And another point.  I have been critical here and in other threads about the advice you have been getting.  I was thinking that perhaps you and others might be assuming that I have negative thoughts toward you.  That is not the case.  I have negative thoughts about the advice you are getting.  With respect to you, Lily, I think you are Smokin Hot.  I get quite aroused by thinking about being with you.  (Just day dreaming, of course, since I am attached to another lady at this time.)  And by Smokin Hot I am not referring as much to your picture as I am to your mind and high intelligence.  You have one of the finest minds here and very rare (for a lady) ability to logically analyze a situation and logically present your opinions and arguments without the typical hyperbole.

Also, in these threads I have been making some comments about age differences.  Some might construe my remarks as indicative of someone who is seeking a much younger woman.  Actually I am just trying to promote some logic with my comments.  For me personally, I try to stay within 10 years of my age.

[Lily]

Do the ladies on this thread feel that way? Understanding that what you are really looking for is an *individual* person with the qualities you need, what were your ideas about age when you started this process? And did they change? Were you looking for someone older, younger, roughly the same age, or not important? And why?

thanks for your thoughts,
jen

As far as I can remember, my search at the FF was adjusted for the age range from 33 to 48 years old. I completely agree with Anastasia, I was and I am looking for my equal. Not exactly age is meant by saying an equal. Equal meant in terms of looks, education, attitude.

My search was grounded essentially on his physical qualities. In other words, the first thing for me was whether I could desire this man. Other qualities were equally important but only after the first thing is positive. First thing among the equally important ones, so to say. I realize that eventually there are some strong-bodied, nice-faced men after that brace, but the probability of finding one diminishes. Age is an unreliable beauty provider.

Similarly, I understand why men look for younger woman. Probably because the young age delivers the most beauties, and the mature age delivers a lot less of them. Why loosing time searching after 35?
 
Earlier in my life, I though I could be with the man in case he is a decent person, sparkling personality, good talker, etc. No problem if he is less than desirable for me, probably with time it works out. But it won't. I notice that my feelings toward people after, say, years of cohabilitation or extensive communication do not change from what I felt towards them after a month of same. If I like someone, I like him or her for life. If the company is less than comfortable to me, it is for ever and will hardly change.

Now when I look the profiles I feel I could switch my preference from 36 y.o. The search brings me too many boyish faces around 33.

[Lily]

Hub,

No negativism from my end  I see you are constructively critical in your posts and I really appreciate it.

[Lily]

Lily,

I don't post here much.  I'm more of a lurker with so much information to assimilate from the knowledgable people here!  But I must pipe up and agree with Maxxum here.  My female friends have still had to sift through hundreds of emails, but they were in control of the communication process by only posting a photo. 

sincerely,
Kenny

Kenny, I agree with Maxxum, too. That's why I avoid sites like Elenasmodel and prefer the ones similar to the match.com. This one is unaccessible to me from Russia, though.

[Blues Fairy]

No I am not contradicting.  You have fallen into the same trap that I noted in my original post.
I have stated the situation as it exists.  You have stated a situation which you want to exist.

Hub,

You maintain that the situation you describe is the objective reality for every Russian-Western relationship.  I strongly disagree.  The situation I stated does exist for me and the people I know, because we know our worth just like Lily does.  Not one of the single Russian women I personally know is forced to compromise anything to get any man she wants, of any age, in Russia or abroad.  In fact, they are even pickier with offers from foreigners than with local offers - exactly for the reasons I described.

If other FSU women believe they have to compromise, it's because they believe so, not because they actually have to.   The question is, who makes them believe so?  

[Hub]

Hub, You maintain that the situation you describe is the objective reality for every Russian-Western relationship.  I strongly disagree.  The situation I stated does exist for me and the people I know, because we know our worth just like Lily does.  Not one of the single Russian women I personally know is forced to compromise anything to get any man she wants, of any age, in Russia or abroad.  In fact, they are even pickier with offers from foreigners than with local offers - exactly for the reasons I described.

If other FSU women believe they have to compromise, it's because they believe so, not because they actually have to.   The question is, who makes them believe so?  

No, I do not maintain that the situation you describe is the objective reality for EVERY Russian-Western relationship.

My comments reflect the average situation.  I try my hardest to avoid the use of the words every, all, none, etc., in my writing.  I know there are usually exceptions to the general situation.  But, I think it is best that we discuss the average situtation on these sites, particularly when we are giving advice.  That is the real usefulness to persons new to this venture. It serves no real purpose when we point out the exceptions and encourage others to strive for the exception.  Start from a solid foundation and then if you or anyone can beat the odds, then more power to you.

I am very happy for you that you can be more picky than average.  
I try not to be negative in my advice, but I also will likely not be a cheerleader for those who are trying to beat the odds.  Particularly when it is harmful to them in any respect; including the aspect of lost time through wasteful procedures.

[Mocking Bird]

Jazzyclassy,

My comments to Lily were and are not meant to sound mean, it is just that there are certain realities and age is one of them, if for instance I was looking today for a lady today I would be looking at a lady between 32 and 36 with a child under 6 not a lady of 40 no matter how nice she has kept herself. It does not matter if it is right or wrong that is the reality and any men feel the same.

TigerPaws 

First of all, sorry for language mistakes I could make. I do not write in English that often.
Second, my idea is that if two people have similar life style, similar values and interests, it would be easier to build up successful relationship. Our life style,  values and interests depends on our age in the very big measure.
Dear Tigerpaws,  Russian Girls  marry older men. Reason why they do it because of poverty of the people, because only limited amount of man could make money enough to feed the families. Girls have to fight between each other to marry  one of them. And of course younger girls have more chances. Such as life in Russia. As long as man have money he could get girl any age he wants.
But you are not going to live in Russia. You going to bring girl to your country. And realities in your country could be very different. What could make your young wife to stay with you after she get permanent visa or green card? Because she is mature in mind? Maturity in mind means that person sees opportunity and use them to improve her life. Maturity in mind does not mean she likes to have man with old and wrinkled body in the bed with her. Let’s agree we all (men and women)  like to have sex with fresh and young partner.  If girls her age get marry younger man, why should she stay with old one?
Yep, RW marry old man, stay in country, divorce old man and marry later more suitable partner. It  happens all the time. Are you willing to take your chances?
 

[Mocking Bird]

Always quite interesting to read debates between the genders.  In many cases we see the men telling how it is and (although there are exceptions) the women ignore the point about how it is and respond with how it should be.    Nothing can be accomplished when the focus is changed like that.

Oh no, men telling how they want it, women telling how it should be to avoid  break ups, divorces, lost of properties and many over problems.

[Mocking Bird]

I respectfully disagree with your conclusion here.  I have been here for a long time too and I don't see men here saying this at all.  In fact, I think the overwhelming number of men here are saying just the opposite of what you claim.  Care to give some examples to back up your claim?
Which men are you speaking of?  The one's here or the one's in your faulty (IMO) conclusion?Another false and misleading statement IMO.  I read exactly the opposite of what you claim here.  Care to prove your point with some facts or examples?
 Jazzy,
Before you go off and claim that I am picking on you, stop, read and think about my comments.  You make the claim that "many" men here want a sub 25 year old woman and that every other man here falls into that category.  I disagree with your claim.  In fact I believe that the numbers are overwhelming in support of my view.  If you look back at the men that have posted on this thread for example, only Tigerpaws would fit your profile.
KenC

What would happen after certain amount of years when you still love to have plenty of sex and husband can not perform any more? Get a lover? What your husband think of you getting a lover?

[KenC]

What would happen after certain amount of years when you still love to have plenty of sex and husband can not perform any more? Get a lover? What your husband think of you getting a lover?

Mocking Bird,
That is but one of many issues that need to be worked out in large age difference marriages.  There are many many more too.  That is why I have always advised against them.
KenC

[Jazzyclassy]

Ken C !

recently you do not advise , you only criticise and defend your marriage by the cost of insulting the other people's point of view, that is how  I see your postings here!

[I/O]

Ken C !

recently you do not advise , you only criticise and defend your marriage by the cost of insulting the other people's point of view, that is how  I see your postings here!

Jazz: That is not correct and it is over the line.  Back off. Everyone has a different style of expressing themselves and one of the benifits we can find in these forums is learning to NOT take everything as we first read it. You need to learn to look past the STYLE of wording (Including KenC's) and look for the value in the statement.

It is a given for example that You are from Russia and will never 100% understand some others in the same way as I am from Australia, KenC is from America and we too have had our differences of opinion through not understanding each other.  Remember back to your's and my first confrontation on another forum. Misunderstanding. A little advice, "There is gold in everything and everyone if you dig deep enough, dig further before reacting".

KenC and others have no need of these forums, they have been there and done what you, I and others are trying to do.  I don't always like what they have to say or the way they say it, but the "Smart money" is to get "The Best" out of what they are saying. I suspect the day will come when many of us think back to some of the things told bluntly to us here and say to ourselves, "Thanks, I'm glad you told me that".

I am tiring of your constant jabbs at Ken and I am fairly sure, that he is the type of guy, although you may not at this time see it, that if you were in trouble and needed help, he would be among the first to be there ON YOUR SIDE.  He might kick your arse for getting into trouble, but he'd be sure to help.  I have noticed this trait in many many Americans and it is something I have come to admire very much. "A bit harsh sometimes, but hearts of gold". I'd have them in my trench under fire any old time, waaaaaaaaaaaay before I'd have many others who might use kinder or softer words.

I/O

[Blues Fairy]

My comments reflect the average situation.  (...)

I try not to be negative in my advice, but I also will likely not be a cheerleader for those who are trying to beat the odds.  Particularly when it is harmful to them in any respect; including the aspect of lost time through wasteful procedures.

Average, you say? Please bring in the statistics! :-) 

I believe the age range a woman considers suitable is a matter of her perception, not the "objective reality" or "average situation".  And perceptions are fueled largely by other people's (often condescending) opinions, including those expressed on this excellent board.  I believe we are all led by our self-esteem.  If Lily or anyone chooses to be pickier and shoot higher than their perceived "average", I would never consider it a "loss of time through wasteful procedures." 

Above-than-average results always require a little extra effort.

[Jazzyclassy]

Jazz: That is not correct and it is over the line.  Back off. Everyone has a different style of expressing themselves and one of the benifits we can find in these forums is learning to NOT take everything as we first read it. You need to learn to look past the STYLE of wording (Including KenC's) and look for the value in the statement.

It is a given for example that You are from Russia and will never 100% understand some others in the same way as I am from Australia, KenC is from America and we too have had our differences of opinion through not understanding each other.  Remember back to your's and my first confrontation on another forum. Misunderstanding. A little advice, "There is gold in everything and everyone if you dig deep enough, dig further before reacting".

KenC and others have no need of these forums, they have been there and done what you, I and others are trying to do.  I don't always like what they have to say or the way they say it, but the "Smart money" is to get "The Best" out of what they are saying. I suspect the day will come when many of us think back to some of the things told bluntly to us here and say to ourselves, "Thanks, I'm glad you told me that".

I am tiring of your constant jabbs at Ken and I am fairly sure, that he is the type of guy, although you may not at this time see it, that if you were in trouble and needed help, he would be among the first to be there ON YOUR SIDE.  He might kick your arse for getting into trouble, but he'd be sure to help.  I have noticed this trait in many many Americans and it is something I have come to admire very much. "A bit harsh sometimes, but hearts of gold". I'd have them in my trench under fire any old time, waaaaaaaaaaaay before I'd have many others who might use kinder or softer words.

I/O

     I 'd better shut up here, but I really am not sure if I am in trouble that somebody here could ever care, in this case I am perfectly realistic and count only on myself .

[Mocking Bird]

Mocking Bird,
That is but one of many issues that need to be worked out in large age difference marriages.  There are many many more too.  That is why I have always advised against them.
KenC

Why did you get youself in to this situation? May be you could be happier with woman closer to your age without need to face many  issues? Does young  woman body worth such trubles?

[I/O]

I really am not sure if I am in trouble that somebody here could ever care.

Jazz: Then you are dead wrong.  The membership of this board, including some of the ol' hardarses proved otherwise a few months ago when someone was in trouble. Someone needed real help and the members "Pitched in" gladly. You would receive the same benefit if you were ever in the same situation, I have no doubt. I think you are way underestimating someone on the basis of not liking their style.  Remember, Ken married someone younger than you, so if you think he is anti youth, think again.

Mocking Bird: I am in a similar situation so I will also answer you. 

Why did you get youself in to this situation?

Because, in the end I chose to.

May be you could be happier with woman closer to your age without need to face many  issues?

Personally I can't imagine how it would be possible to be happier than I am right now.

Does young  woman body worth such trubles?

I wont marry her for her body, I will marry her for what's between her ears and I might add that IME that is way in front of some very much her senior.

An old Gynecologist summed it up quite well many years ago in the face of some stupid woman being rather crude to him. (My mother relates the story) "The bodies are all much the same after a while, it is the faces that are different".

I/O