league and age gaps

[ScottinCrimea]

Yes we all are entitled to our own opinions.  Maybe we don't know everything about your situation but I think we know enough to make some educated guesses based on the probabilities. I think no one would invest their money on the odds that you guys are facing, and I sure as heck wouldn't invest my life and emotions on them.

[Gator]

JB wrote,

,,, nobody else is in charge of your happiness,,, only you

JB, very true.  And most people do not not understand this, claiming that their happiness depends upon what someone else does.  A man is not responsible for his wife’s happiness; it is beyond his control.  And, of course, the opposite is true. 

Some of Turbo’s criticism comes from younger people who have a more traditional concept for marriage, family and children, a model that probably differs from what Turbo seeks at this stage of his life.  Turbo impresses me as someone who appreciates life one day at a time.  If Turbo and VWRW have a good five years, perhaps Turbo would be happy and without regret even if he eventually finds himself alone again.  I recall the married RW Donna Pedro saying many years ago, “If you want a guarantee, buy a toaster.” 

Turbo wrote,

most of the people I know either work for me or are trying to sell me something.

If this is the truth, you need more friends outside of these two biased groups.  True friends understand you and know what makes you tick.  Such friends usually do not cheer questionable plans; rather, they ask those probing and thought provoking questions that guide your deliberation and lead to self-discovery.

Turbo again,

Actually women are supposed to hit their sexual peak in the late 30s.   By mid forties they are going downhill fast and would much rather watch a good soap.  That puts me barely out of my 60's.

Considering your real ages and this answer, you obviously had trouble with arithmetic in grade school.  Or is this an example of the delusion that some mention?

I know a few women in their 40s that if what you say is true (i. e., they are past their peak), no man could have survived them 15 years ago.  Then again, I like to think it was me who awakened them.   

Turbo, this can be an issue, and I do not want or need personal information.  Suffice it to say that a) some women are into sex and some are not, and b) there are an infinite number of ways to please a woman sexually.  But it does make for bad visuals.

[Turboguy]

Scott, that is exactly what I am doing, investing my life and emotions on the probabilities as I see them.  I am quite comfortable with the investment (as well as whatever risk there may be)

Gator, good post as always.  I agree with you that we make our own happiness.  I also believe we make our own luck.   Of course some things are beyond our control but most of the things we face in life are our own doing. 

I think Donna Pedro's comment was a good one.  I have a feeling 5 years from now many of the couples we see may not be together.  If VWRW wakes up 5 years from now and suddenly decides she married an old man and really messed up her life then that is the way it went and I want her to go find whatever happiness she can but I will also do all I can to make sure she never regrets it. 

Yes, I have some friends who do not work for me or who are not trying to sell me something.  They are all very supportive and are always asking for an update on what we have been up to and how it is going. 

Actually math was my favorite and best subject.   If women hit their sexual peak from 35-40 that puts me at 72, not that far out of the 60's.  One way or the other it is not something I am greatly concerned about.   I do agree it is twisting facts a bit but most men who have been married for 5 years wish they got more than they do anyway.   Sex is just one part of a good marriage.

[Bluebell]

To badly paraphrase a Russian writer: all happy marriages are pretty much the same, but all unhappy marriages are unique in their misery! [My apologies to the Russians here who know the exact quote :-)]

That's not just a Russian writer, that is Tolstoy, starting Anna Karenina with these words paraphrased by you 

[Mir]

Yes I have read it as:'Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.'

[vwrw]

  “If you want a guarantee, buy a toaster.” 

I would like to add “If you want a guarantee and predict-ability ,buy and marry a rubber woman.”

[jb]

If women hit their sexual peak from 35-40 that puts me at 72, not that far out of the 60's.

Talk about delusions; imagine a 72 y.o. man thinking he can keep up with a 35 y.o. woman who likes sex.

 

[Turboguy]

Well jb, I don't think I am taking that part of the conversation very seriously since I am not that worried about it.   There is also a possibility that it will work out perfectly.  Sometimes after a few years of marriage sex slows up.   I have heard lots of married men wish they were getting more.   Hopefully the sexual peak and the slowing that sometimes occurs after marriage may balance that off and make a perfect situation. 

If you thought the other was funny think about this.  How many times have you heard a married man of any age complain because he was getting too much. 

[I/O]

Perhaps some of these delusional ol' boys should consider my father's words, he is just a few years older than Turbo reports to be now. Recently he had his routine medical check and the doctor asked him if there was any thing else? Dad replied, yes, I want my sex drive lowered. The doctor exclaimed, Sir, at your age is should all be in your head. My father replied, Exactly..!!! that's the bloody problem, I want it lowered...!!! By about 3 damned feet...!!!

I/O

[catzenmouse]

I don't think it really makes a difference if TG & VWRW have 5 years or 25 years together. If they are okay with it and happy with their time together then good for them.

Delusional? Hell, I've been told tons of times that I fit that bill as well. What's delusional for one is stark reality for another. We're getting close to 3 years married now. Are we a success? I sure feel that we are but some may not as we haven't hit that magic 5 year mark yet. She could up and leave me tomorrow for all I know and I would not regret a single minute of our time together and would still consider the time we had to be a success. Maybe that is what makes me delusional. If so, I think I'll stay here. The sky is always pretty colors and I like talking to the little animals too.

Ken

P.S. We need a new game in the arcade called Turbo Bashing. Might help to eliminate dozens of pages of these kind repetitive threads.

P.P.S. LOL! Good one I/O

[Bluebell]

  Sometimes after a few years of marriage sex slows up.   I have heard lots of married men wish they were getting more.   Hopefully the sexual peak and the slowing that sometimes occurs after marriage may balance that off and make a perfect situation. 

If you thought the other was funny think about this.  How many times have you heard a married man of any age complain because he was getting too much. 

Well, well...did it occur to you Turboguy that it happens because some men once in marriage stop romancing their wives and in general, don't do much to keep themselves attractive to their women? How can you hope, at your age of 65 or 67 that you can maintain your attractiveness over the years for a young woman when so many younger men fail to do that (see the so many divorces). Why do you think that time and everyday life of marriage will be at your side and will not be your biggest enemy? I can't believe that VWRV would be so drastically different from other women. As a matter of fact, so far in her posts and what you told us here about her she seems to be different in one single thing: in her determination, which you seem to admire so much. Well, this can turn out to be a good or a bad thing for you. As most people here, I hope for the best for you.

[Turboguy]

Thank you for your comments Bluebell.   I have to agree that I have seen many cases of people letting themselves go after marriage.   I have also seen some cases where people let themselves go after a marriage, got divorced and worked hard to loose 100 pounds or so and whip themselves back into shape.   If they done the same while they were married they may not have gotten divorced.

My only first hand experience was not as I described.  I was married for 18 years and that part of our relationship was never a problem.   I have heard a lot of guys complain about it and I have always felt about like you said that they stopped romancing their wives.   I have a good friend from Michigan who married a gal I hooked him up with from the FSU.  They have around an 8-10 year age difference and I hear him complain a lot about not getting enough.   Whatever the reason I have heard lots of guys complain about not getting enough and don't recall any ever complaining about too much.

Yes, I admire her determination.  I see people every day who don't do a bit more than they have to in order to survive.   I think a lot of Russian people are much more determined than many of their American counterparts.  I am guessing it comes from life being much easier here.   She totally devotes herself to making her life what she wants it to be and she totally devotes herself to making me happy.  She does very well at both.

[Ranetka]

gabaub, HiTech,

 I understand Ranetka's position when she said she woke up one day and realized she was unhappy, she knows that the burden of her happiness is in her own hands, the old geezer she was married to was not the fountain of her happiness.  Regardless of what others may think of her, she does not deserve to live a life of sacrifice and drudgery trying to make someone else happy because that's their job, not her's. 

Thank you

[jb]

Your quite welcome.

[ScottinCrimea]

Just for my own education and because I have a little time to kill until my wife comes, I checked out Turbos thoughts and feelings posted here with his first adoption....er...engagement to a RW a couple of years ago.  See of any of this sounds familiar.  Here is how he described his fiancee and their relationship:

"I have passed on a lot of ladies looking for the right one.  I am fairly certain I have found her."

"Sometimes I can fall in love a little too easy with a Russian woman because the  have qualities i really like in a woman and find hard to find in an American woman.  In this case however I see more compatability than I have ever seen.   I was falling in love with her before I even saw her photo.     I like being with her.  She has so many great qualities that I am not worried about a thing."

"She and I seem like we have the same sense of humor and tempo and we really seem to enjoy being in each others company."

"The bottom line on everything is that we seem to fit together pretty well"

"We like the same things we want the same kind of life"

"When I met Luda is just sort of seemed that we were perfect for each other.  It just seemed right.   That does not mean that she can't drive me crazy sometimes with her hard head and unique way of looking at life.    She is not perfect, but neither am I.  I can't predict the future, but I would not want to be thinking about a future without her. "

"When I met Luda I knew why she drew me too her so much.   Yes for me, she is pretty and she has a nice figure but that is not any part of what attracts me.  It is the inner person, it is the sense of humor, the ways she is, the comfort I feel with her and the feeling that we belong together."

Now he claims he is confident things will work because he knows vwrw so well, but this contradicts the opinion that he expressed then:

"I will also say that people change.   often with the marriage vows.  With Russian gals perhaps it would be at the 2 year mark.   That is not just Russian gals.  It is all women.  Guys too.   Being able to communicate does not mean you will know the person after the vows"

"I don't think you can meet someone the way we do and really know them.   I won't repeat what I said in my first sentance but I will add that often once a gal or guy has a ring on his finger he or she is not even close to the same person they were before they were married."

But he was confident he knew fully well what he was doing and had anticipated any future problems:

"I do think I am well aware of what I am tackling and what the future will hold and I have to thank this board for that"

He was also sure that his determination would carry him through:

"My gal has her interview in 23 days.   If she gets turned down, we appeal.  If that is turned down, I move to Russia.   If they won't let me move to Russia, we find somewhere we can live together.  If all the planes quit flying I take a boat to her.  If all the boats are done, I swim."

"I have no idea what it will take to overcome the problems.   Whatever it is I will be there fighting until we are together"

Now he is talking about probabilities.  Obviously he is an expert on weighing odds:

"Do I feel like I am in love with her being pretty and having a nice figure.  No I feel like I am in love with the inner person.   Is there a big age difference, Yes,  Do I think if we stay on track and get married that it will work.  Yes, I fell 100% that it will"

Well that 0% probability kicked in but he had thoughts on the age issue:

"Finding someone your own age is probably a smart move.   If things fall apart for my gal and, I that will be something I keep in mind"

Obviously he chose not to make the smart move and kept the age issue in mind for all of maybe 5 minutes.

The definition of insanity:  Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

I was polite and only called him delusional.

[Gator]

Scott,

You must recognize that Turbo is one of the instructors for the course, "Power of Positive Thinking".

Some people are built that way, and it would be great if more people were the same.

[Gator]

JB wrote,

Talk about delusions; imagine a 72 y.o. man thinking he can keep up with a 35 y.o. woman who likes sex.

However, what if he is as persevering in bed as he is in spewing posts?    A geriatric gigolo, if you will.

[William3rd]

If he were persevering in the bed room, he would not be spewing posts. This is just compensating for other lacks. Hmmm-maybe the board is just foreplay; sort of leading up to the big event or small event as the case may be. . . .

[I/O]

and it would be great if more people were the same.

Gator; I beg to differ.  Positive thinking is only useful when it is linked to positive achievable outcomes.  Positive thinking of Turbo's type is akin to the guy who looked at 9/11 in a positive way and said, well it could have been worse, more people could have died.

I've long been of the opinion that the "Positive thinker" exponents of the late 80's and 90's did many a great disservice in convincing them almost anything was possible. It is not. reality will over rule all the positive thinking anyone can muster. I'm a believer in positive "doing". Assess the opportunities, rationalise the possabilities and throw everything you have at achieving a workable outcome. Positive thinking as an art is by and large more p!ss and wind than tangible results.

I/O

[Turboguy]

Just for my own education and because I have a little time to kill until my wife comes, I checked out Turbos thoughts and feelings posted here with his first adoption....er...engagement to a RW a couple of years ago.  See of any of this sounds familiar.  Here is how he described his fiancee and their relationship:

Scott, I don't have any problem commenting about the age difference thing.   It seems to be something people have fun talking about.   I most often enjoy it myself.   Sometimes you feel like you are between a rock and a hard spot.  I could go through your comments and answer point by point but I would feel like I would be making excuses and trying to justify myself which is not something I care about doing.   If I don't answer than some could take that as agreeing that you made good points.   If they care to it is their choice and fine with me.

I will just say there were some similarities and some differences.   Note that I did talk about "problems' with Luda, I have not with VWRW.    Yes, I was determined to make it work with both and very committed to whatever I had to do for that to happen.  The level of commitment on the other side is night and day different and that is where the problems occurred before.   Notice also that I said Luda was not perfect.  VWRW virtually is.  Notice when I talked about Luda I talked about not really knowing the person.  With VWRW I have not said that. 

[Mir]

Notice also that I said Luda was not perfect.  VWRW virtually is.

Now you are getting me worried

[Turboguy]

Notice I said virtually.   No ones perfect.   Besides did you ever meet a women Russian or otherwise who did not feel they were perfect.

[Gator]

Turbo wrote,

Notice when I talked about Luda I talked about not really knowing the person.  With VWRW I have not said that. 

Do you know her, or think you know her?  There is a huge difference between the two.  How has this been confirmed and verified?  Even if you answer me with two paragraphs, i will not believe you.

Why?  Because I find women rather complicated.  And when you think you know them, they change. 

A few have told me that I understand them; however, I believe they said that just to get me to relax and not try to uncover more.

[KenC]

Gator; I beg to differ.  Positive thinking is only useful when it is linked to positive achievable outcomes.  Positive thinking of Turbo's type is akin to the guy who looked at 9/11 in a positive way and said, well it could have been worse, more people could have died.

I've long been of the opinion that the "Positive thinker" exponents of the late 80's and 90's did many a great disservice in convincing them almost anything was possible. It is not. reality will over rule all the positive thinking anyone can muster. I'm a believer in positive "doing". Assess the opportunities, rationalise the possabilities and throw everything you have at achieving a workable outcome. Positive thinking as an art is by and large more p!ss and wind than tangible results.

I/O

I/O,
I have long thought that positive thinking can be very detrimental in this pursuit.  When one only looks at the possibilities of the positive side of things, he (or she) will be toast.  I also think that guys that are self made are dangerous to themselves in this arena.  There is a delicate balance that needs to be maintained between having the gonads to actually do this and having the fear of God that it might be the wrong call.  Looking at the downside to this is not being a pessimist, it is being realistic IMO.

I am naturally a very optimistic guy, but in analyzing my relationship with Lena prior to marriage, I paid much more attention to the downside than usual.  Why?  Because I knew I was bucking the odds with the large age difference.  It is the only sensable way to approach it.

There was a guy that was a big contractor that posted a few years back on RWG.  (Don't remember his handle)  He was a very confident guy.  He debated with me very vigorously about how he made 100's of snap decisions on a daily basis and about how skilled he was at making these decisions.  He never made any allowances for the downside.  He rushed to bring his fiancee and her daughter over fully confident that there would be no problems.  Well, it lasted all of about 30 days and his fiancee and daughter were sent packing in the middle of the night with a flight home the next morning!

Before I married Lena, I looked at every possible reason not to do so.  Some (most) guys look for every reason that their relationship will be a success, which is not practical in this pursuit.  Being overly optimistic only clouds the reality of the situation with optimistic fantasies.
KenC

[BC]

Considering the massive amounts of hormonal and emotional 'positives', a solid dose of realism, a good bit of common sense and even a little pessimism sprinkled here and there is needed to balance things out a bit.

Head over heels in love, lust or whatever comes to mind.