league and age gaps

[Photo Guy]

I think it can be a mistake to be open about personal romantic experiences here at RWD.  Over the last two years I've seen a number of guys, myself included, who report all of their joys, trials, tribulations, excitement, and internal thought processes, etc.  All of that stuff can be very interesting and entertaining.

The downside is that the openness almost always results in a vulnerability, which opens a door allowing certain individuals to bash and tear apart the poster. I've seen this done in a gleeful manner. It's base. It's sort of the lowest common denominator of any forum.

In this thread, I see Turbo defending himself (again) against negative criticisms.
Luckily, he has a thick skin. He finds it amusing. He's a good guy and he deserves to succeed with
his gal, VWVR.  ...and then there are the guys who are following the 'perfect'
procedures and yet we have no idea who they are, as individuals.

...remember that every success can be preceded and/or followed
by a failure. It is most important to live your life with love and integrity.

Have you ever noticed how those who are doing the
bashing and criticizing, rarely expose their own relationships, telling us very little about
the details of their own relationships?  Name-calling is an easy endeavor, but it often
shows the person as having little moral character.   -doug

[Turboguy]

Very good point PG.  The worst part of it is when someone comes here to learn and in the hope of getting good advice and opens about about his thoughts and feelings and gets really trounced.   

In my case I am not looking for advice at all as far as the decisions I make but am happy to hear more about the things that may lay ahead so I be better prepared for them.   I know that I can listen to a lot of criticism and not let it bother me but not everyone can do that.

I have seen a lot of people open up about the things going on in their life and soon regretting it.   

[BC]

PG, TG,

You should look at fora like huge Vegas poker tables..

You sit down at the table, place your bets (ask your questions) and are dealt the cards (advice and critique).

It's up to you to make the best out of them.

There are several tables around and you (esp TG) have played at most of them.

I find the best cards being dealt here.  You don't?.. If the table manners are better elsewhere then why hang?

Yeah it gets kinda frustrating for other players if you keep crying for new cards until you see those you like, or try to convince them that the queen of hearts on the table is really an ace of spades.

FWIW

[jb]

P/G, T/G,

Have you ever noticed how those who are doing the
bashing and criticizing, rarely expose their own relationships, telling us very little about
the details of their own relationships?  Name-calling is an easy endeavor, but it often
shows the person as having little moral character.   -doug

I can't speak for others, but my entire experience, from the 1st trip to marriage, the trials of getting a K-3 and K-4 visa, to AOS, and now on to citizenship, for my wife and stepson has been chronicled either here, or before that, on the RWG.  I'm sorry that you were not around in the beginning of my journey.

It's quite true that I don't post about how much I loooooovvvvvvve her, or how compppaaaaatible we are, or how well our sexxxxxxxxx life is going, or for that matter, any other really personal items.  Frankly that's none of yours or anybody else's business.  However, I have posted a myriad of instances and events which I thought were meaningful milestones and how my experience might help the man just starting out.  I also initiated the FAQ section of this board and personally composed a goodly portion of the posts which comprise that section today.  That is a contribution of which I am still quite proud.    I assure you that every word is from personal experience and personal research.  I further assure you there isn't a grain of fiction in the entire volume of the many posts I have put forth.  I really did make all those trips, I really did experience all those things I've written about, I really did put forth the mental effort to sort through the BS one encounters in travels to the FSU, and if you guys really do think I'm the "poser", then that's a very sad reflection on yourself.

Now please tell everyone all about the meaningful contributions you have made to the collective fund of really useful knowledge stored within these doors.

[KenC]

I think it can be a mistake to be open about personal romantic experiences here at RWD.  Over the last two years I've seen a number of guys, myself included, who report all of their joys, trials, tribulations, excitement, and internal thought processes, etc.  All of that stuff can be very interesting and entertaining.

The downside is that the openness almost always results in a vulnerability, which opens a door allowing certain individuals to bash and tear apart the poster. I've seen this done in a gleeful manner. It's base. It's sort of the lowest common denominator of any forum.

In this thread, I see Turbo defending himself (again) against negative criticisms.
Luckily, he has a thick skin. He finds it amusing. He's a good guy and he deserves to succeed with
his gal, VWVR.  ...and then there are the guys who are following the 'perfect'
procedures and yet we have no idea who they are, as individuals.

...remember that every success can be preceded and/or followed
by a failure. It is most important to live your life with love and integrity.

Have you ever noticed how those who are doing the
bashing and criticizing, rarely expose their own relationships, telling us very little about
the details of their own relationships?  Name-calling is an easy endeavor, but it often
shows the person as having little moral character.   -doug

Your and Turbo's "vulnerability" comes from your illogical justifications of your stupid actions.  Your relationship blew up in your face and we will see more of the same with Turbo.  You have already proven that your head in the clouds (or up your azz) fantasized world just doesn't work in real life.  Did you come back to whine some more?
 
KenC
(The guy that could actually speak to his wife with out grunts and hand gestures, actually got married and stayed married for 8 years and still going strong)
KenC

[Gator]

I/O and KenC

Both of you are successful in business and with RW relationships.  I think you are naturally doing more “power of positive thinking” than you might realize.

The power of positive thinking is not about simply conjuring a positive image and hoping for the best.  If you had to cross a minefield, simply closing one’s eyes and believing there are no mines would be a disaster.

This concept is about instilling confidence and self-esteem, and that first requires analysis and preparation.  Confidence and positive thinking are contagious, inspiring others who are sharing your mission/vision. 

I have never been short of confidence.  Further, I have rarely relied upon blind luck.  Instead, I prepared and prepared (which includes assessing what could go wrong) until I felt confident that I had the power to accomplish my objective.  And once I made a decision to do something, I did my best to not worry and second-guess along the way.

In the old days when scams were more prevalent, I believe too many men had scam paranoia.  So much so that they could not relax and enjoy the company of a wonderful woman.  Their skeptical attitude would turn off most women, leaving them only with desperate women or those willing to behave in a false way to accomplish a hidden agenda.

[sunandsail]

Your and Turbo's "vulnerability" comes from your illogical justifications of your stupid actions.  Your relationship blew up in your face and we will see more of the same with Turbo.  You have already proven that your head in the clouds (or up your azz) fantasized world just doesn't work in real life.  Did you come back to whine some more?

OK.  OK.  I get the point.  I very much appreciate your (other) cautionary comments - insight that is useful and needed.  But the "bad Turbo" stuff is just getting rude, and is not necessary to make your point.

[Turboguy]

Thanks Sunandsail.    Photoguy made some bad choices and bad decisions but he had the best of intentions and gave 200% in his efforts to succeed.   Sometimes people have to learn the hard way.  I think he has learned a lot.   Photoguy has a good heart, honorable intentions and a deep love for his (former) woman.   He has shown himself to have class, compassion, manners, and composure.   

Frankly I don't think it shows a lot of class when people need to strike out at someone like PG for no real reason.   I have seen some wonderful things here at RWD.   I have seen a few like the treatment of PG and Miss Sensuality that make me very happy not to be the kind of people those ones were. 

[Vaughn]

Frankly I don't think it shows a lot of class when people need to strike out at someone like PG for no real reason. 

Oh, PhotoGuy took a few beatings alright, but were they really "for no reason"? I won't review the threads,
but I recall one he aptly named something like "OK So You Want a Piece of Me?" When I first joined RWD
under the old format, a few guys here really irked me with their coarse delivery. I hung on for a while and
kept reading.....  and found that most mud was slung in the direction of those who absolutely refused to
listen to good advice. They'd ask a question or solicit opinion, get the hard truth, and summarily reject it,
a la "Well, hell, I'm moving on with my plan anyway - it suits me." We won't review Photo's earlier threads
in which he offered his philosophy of life and love, to which I offer a counterpunch: Perhaps the only
greater thrill than soaring on the wings of a dream is watching the dreamer find he's got nowhere to land
but in the ocean of reality.....

Yesterday in another "age gap" thread, Sunandsail wrote the following:

I'm a rare poster here, but I have a relationship with a 21 year gap, that burdens me with this very guilt.  There is a part of me that can't stop thinking this is not right for her - I love her - and I'm thinking this is not the right thing for her life.

Perhaps, Turbo, if you'd honestly come across as a man who had extreme reservations about the future of the youngster you're courting as Sunandsail relates in his own experience (and BTW, you're again already declaring a victory.....refer to your recent post touting Elena's "making
success stories" like "VWRW and me") .....to be frank, such tactics show me (and I'm sure others) a disregard
for caution, damn the torpedos, full steam ahead. I'm not passing judgement on your choice of a particular woman per se, only your past method of dating a wide variety of age groups and ultimately ending up with
the girl. In my heart of hearts I hope you two prove everyone wrong, but I will admit I'm quite worried.

Elvira and I will be married 5 years this winter - and I'm just now getting comfy with bragging about our
"success".

[Turboguy]

Hi Vaughn,

I will agree that Photoguy started a thread, "So you want a piece of me"   Of course that was well after he was told that his girl was so ugly that they would throw up at the thought of making love to her, that she was worse than trailer trash and that she was a low classed shop girl that was not worthy of anyones love.   I agree, lets not get into that again.

Vaughn, you might want to reread what I wrote.  Yes, I recommended Elena's.   No I did not say "making
success stories" like "VWRW and me"    I said something to the effect that Elena's had created 5 times the couples that any other single source had.   I did mention that I had found my fiancee through them.   If I used the word success it was in terms of finding a person, not creating a long lasting a successful marriage. 

Vaughn, I am not much on bragging at any particular stage or any particular thing I do.  Yes, perhaps when we are married 5 years if I feel we are deliriously happy I may call it a success.  Even staying married for 5 years or 18 years as I did with my first marriage does not mean it is successful.   

Vaughn, I am not concerned with proving everyone else wrong.   Everyone is entitled to their opinion.   Frankly Vaughn if I had extreme reservations about the future of the youngster I am courting I probably would not proceed but I don't even have tiny reservations about it.   I am not saying that for selfish reasons.   I don't have a selfish bone in my body.   We are both happy together.  We are both aware of the potential pitfalls a neither of us has any hesitation sharing our future.

[Kuna]

Amazing...

Good luck Turbo...  Like Scott, I reread some of the old posts on your amazing mental and emotional connection with Luda. I was surprised such a powerful attraction to her inner qualities ended in such a sad way.   

Of course, if you were honest then and said it was her body/looks/age that attracted you (and there's nothing wrong with that), most of us could understand the outcome...

I'm very happy that you're now firmly planted in reality.  It's not "her" age that attracts you... it's her amazing drive and passion. 

As I've read the "Luda Posts" I reckon I can predict how you'll write your ending to this amazing love story.  You have a gift for this...  perhaps you should consider a movie deal. I can see it now:

Strong, honest, incredibly successful older man escapes a dreadfully unhappy marriage and traverses the vast lands of the Former Soviet Union for 11 years in search of his one true love...

He dreams of finding someone with the inner qualities to satisfy the intellectual and emotional needs of a man from Beaver Falls.  Through persistence and sound strategy, he finds her... but alas... there's a twist. 

She's crazy and he send this defective wench back to the place where she came.  It was truly a lucky escape for a man surrounded only by employees and people trying to sell him something. 

He bravely continues his search with confidence and determination, and finally the God's grant him the prize he has always known was rightfully his.  No, not the blowjob in his hotel room after a "social" - she was unworthy, but with ample advice of his Internet friends (headed by PhotoGuy) he sweeps his new love off her feet and away from the prying eyes in her hometown.

Thailand, Egypt and The Carribean.. They cement their emotional connection in the buffet restaurants of luxury hotels and experience what life will really be like when they are together back in Beaver Falls.

How will it end?  Does his unfailing determination and ignorance of age/looks/body finally pay him dividends?  Does he finally hit the jackpot?  Will her career take off and his libido hold on long enough to satisfy all?  Will she develop new friendships or relish the comfort and predictability of his business-only circle of acquaintances - and how will he deal with strangers entering his life if she chooses the former?

All this and more on your RWD Channel - Where aging divorcees CAN find happiness in the flawless satin smooth skin of Young Russian Women.

errr... Turbo, you're driving this story so I'll let you make the decision on what genre it should be presented in. Here are your options:

Action - usually set in exotic locations and includes lots of violence and fighting;
Adventure - similar to Action movies - but less violence.  Here you could focus on your conquests, the creation of empires, struggles you'll face and of course you can be the hero;
Drama - because I suspect there will be much drama down the path;
Crime - especially appropriate if you end up the victim of a domestic violence scam... or some other "totally unexpected" outcome;
Comedy - but if you choose this you must make it one of those really cheesy slapstick comedies that are popular in Russia;
Horror - only time will tell what the ending will be. Horrors exploit focus on our insecurities and fears (in your case maybe growing old), and deal with the forbidden or strange situations we all get ourselves into at times;
Historical Period Piece - because you could start the story in your childhood and give some background on why you make the decisions you do;
A Musical - You could have the finale in a hip NY nightclub with you up on stage in leather pants and a black Lycra t-shirt singing a funky love song to vwrw while she swoons in the crowd of your employees and vendors.

I hope these ideas help.  I'm sure whatever you do it'll be hilarious!   

 

[Turboguy]

I will even laugh at that one Kuna   


Yes, I miss all those fancy restaurants in the 5 star hotels we stayed in.

As far as singing the funky love song to VWRW, if you ever heard me sing you would know that is one way to see this relationship end. 

[ScottinCrimea]

Kuna, thanks a lot!  Now I have to go change my pants and clean up the puddle on the floor. 

[I/O]

I don't have a selfish bone in my body.

Of that I have little doubt, it is the selfish "Bone" outside your body that seems to be driving you ever onwards.

Turbo, I think it is fair to say that nobody here including myself wishes you or VWRW ill in anyway, but it also fair to say that most think you BOTH deserve better if you can get your head around that. This of course is opinion but it is collective opinion which is foolish to ignore. Better for both of you would be a more age appropriate match.

Nevertheless, that in and of itself is not what solicits the continual bashing you guys have copped over it. What irritates people who have a genuine passion and interest for this whole pursuit is that whether you realise it or not, you BOTH continually inject an unsolicited defence of your situation into many threads. The bottom line is that if you make it work, you will be a huge exception.

It is the irresponsibility you display by continually hanging your situation up in front of everyone, particularly the freshman and thereby attempting to demonstrate some degree of normality about your relationship and further by default, attempt to influence others.

Your situation is an abberation at best and should be played low key on these boards. You have vast travel experience and I imagine a reasonable knowledge of various areas of the FSU. You would gain a great deal more respect if you focused on posting in areas where you do have expertise.  Relationships are an area you don't have expertise as demonstrated by a decade of trying to put one together. VWRW would do better to expound her knowledge of various areas of Russia that she knows about and perhaps offer some advice in this area to the freshmen.

Put very bluntly, shut up about the lunacy of your relationship and post about things which might be of practical help to freshmen and you will regain some respect. Continue the way you are and you'll be only further consigned to the loony bin in most normal people's thinking.

I/O

[Turboguy]

Personally I/O I don't think I initiate most of it.   I think others do and I get dragged into it.  I have no need to boast about my conquest as you see it.   If you don't like these discussions then preach to the others about it.  It does not bother me to talk about it or not.   I sure don't feel any compulsion to discuss it and would be more than happy to spend less time talking about it or even no time talking about it.   

[Gator]

Kuna,

Hilarious and very clever.  Is Turbo's story indelibly etched to your brain?  You seem to have recalled all the important points, some that I had forgotten.

As far as I am concerned, your lampoon makes a good conclusion to the overall topic.

Turbo,

You should enter some chatroom Iron Man contests.  

Whether anyone will acknowledge it, I do find that you and VWRW seem to have a similar personality, and that is one of the more sensitive variables in the AW/RW equation.  Good luck to you and to VWRW as the K-1 process advances.

[vwrw]

I do not know how you, but I find all these talks of YOURS about Turbo and me to be very amusing.
It is really funny when a man who is living with a principle – “Iwill not let facts get in the way of my bragging story” tries to convince others that he is a realist.

It is really funny when a man who is unable to provide sufficient and relevant argument gets angry that his arguments are not found as cogent.

And the funniest think is your attempts to convince Turbo and me to break up our relationship due to things which are insignificant to Turbo and me.

For example: some of you think our relationship is doomed because of Turbo lives nowhere. Guys, the second thing which has gave me a lot of pleasure during last year is conversations with Turbo. Turbo or I read aloud an information and after we discuss it. It gave us so much amusement that often we were not willing to go sightseeing. That is why I offered Turbo to spend our honeymoon at home. And to safe money for traveling later when we gets tired of our conversation (if ever) and are able to sightseeing. I hope now you understand why I do not accept some of your speculation about Turbo’s and my future.
   
By results of one trustworthy test I am described as:
“Of the four aspects of strategic analysis and definition, it is the contingency planning or entailment organizing role that reaches the highest development in Masterminds. Entailing or contingency planning is not an informative activity, rather it is a directive one in which the planner tells others what to do and in what order to do it. As the organizing capabilities the Masterminds increase so does their inclination to take charge of whatever is going on.
It is in their abilities that Masterminds differ from the other Rationals, while in most of their attitudes they are just like the others. However there is one attitude that sets them apart from other Rationals: they tend to be much more self-confident than the rest, having, for obscure reasons, developed a very strong will. They are rather rare, comprising no more than, say, one percent of the population. Being very judicious, decisions come naturally to them; indeed, they can hardly rest until they have things settled, decided, and set. They are the people who are able to formulate coherent and comprehensive contingency plans, hence contingency organizers or "entailers."
Masterminds will adopt ideas only if they are useful, which is to say if they work efficiently toward accomplishing the Mastermind's well-defined goals. Natural leaders, Masterminds are not at all eager to take command of projects or groups, preferring to stay in the background until others demonstrate their inability to lead. Once in charge, however, Masterminds are the supreme pragmatists, seeing reality as a crucible for refining their strategies for goal-directed action. In a sense, Masterminds approach reality as they would a giant chess board, always seeking strategies that have a high payoff, and always devising contingency plans in case of error or adversity. To the Mastermind, organizational structure and operational procedures are never arbitrary, never set in concrete, but are quite malleable and can be changed, improved, streamlined. In their drive for efficient action, Masterminds are the most open-minded of all the types. No idea is too far-fetched to be entertained-if it is useful. Masterminds are natural brainstormers, always open to new concepts and, in fact, aggressively seeking them. They are also alert to the consequences of applying new ideas or positions. Theories which cannot be made to work are quickly discarded by the Masterminds. On the other hand, Masterminds can be quite ruthless in implementing effective ideas, seldom counting personal cost in terms of time and energy.”

Guys, all the “what ifs”, with your help, I had analyzed during the first three months of relationship with Turbo, and came to conclusion there is high degree of certainty this relationship will work out. It has been almost a year as I see that I have made the right conclusion.  So, guys, do not waste you breath!!

[vwrw]

From I/O: This of course is opinion but it is collective opinion which is foolish to ignore. Better for both of you would be a more age appropriate match.

vwrw: LOL…tell about it to KenC who already 8 years is happy in spite for the collective opinion. Tell him that better for him would be a more age appropriate match.
What a nonsense you say!

From I/O: VWRW would do better to expound her knowledge of various areas of Russia that she knows about and perhaps offer some advice in this area to the freshmen……
… post about things which might be of practical help to freshmen and you will regain some respect..
 
vwrw: I/O, I have come here NOT for giving advice to freshmen and much more less for regaining some respect. I come to learn! The problem is that when someone tells his viewpoints on a subject I am interested in, I do not accept them without questioning the reasoning behind it.
In 90% of cases on my questions “WHY?” what is reasoning behind your conclusion the answers is “it is obviously that I am right, so you should believe me”. Maybe it is obviously to you, but it is not obviously to me. And IF one comes here to teach others as the some of you like to shout at every thread,… then be so kind to explain your conclusions in such way that they will be obvious to others too.
     
And last, if some of you are irritated by Turbo, me or our relationship,…then too bad …live with this!
(I/O, I am curious if you recognized who taught me these last words?)   

[I/O]

(I/O, I am curious if you recognized who taught me these last words?)

Very easy to recognise and no surprise you would use them. Imitation is the greatest form of admiration, and..........neither of you appears to have had an original idea in your lives, so again it is no surprise you would find it necessary to use another's words. VWRW Was part of your wanting to learn your little stunt a few months ago of lying to everyone? Or is that just so much part of you that you wouldn't learn from that exercise? Regardless, it seems you have learnt nothing from that experience.

What a nonsense you say!

Really now? Is it me that lied right left and centre to this board, to themselves and their partner? I think you should consider your own actions and words before telling others they are speaking nonsense.

Tell him that better for him would be a more age appropriate match.

I have.  Any other suggestions?

Maybe it is obviously to you, but it is not obviously to me.

Obviously.

All the last couple of posts from you two demonstrate is the saying that there is an idiot born every minute holds true. At least it was clearly the case 27 odd years ago and 60 odd years ago.

“WHY?”

Ever noticed that children do that continually? Go figure.

I/O
 

[Mir]

Well it looks like most of those who are advising TG and vrvw to enter in more age appropriate relationships themselves are in well rather age inappropriate relationships. The difference is that they entered or are entering into such relationships with a nagging fears in their hearts if they were/are doing the right thing, while TG and vrvw are absolutely sure (well at least they say they are) that they are doing the right thing.
The question is who is more likely to succeed? Someone who starts a venture with nagging fears of failure or someone who starts it being absolutely certain of its success.

[I/O]

someone who starts it being absolutely certain of its success.

I was absolutely certain of everything as I entered my first marriage. 10 years later I realised that nothing is certain and all one can do is work at it with the best of intentions. That is the reality.

I/O

[Bluebell]

1.vwrw: I/O, I have come here NOT for giving advice to freshmen and much more less for regaining some respect. I come to learn!



2.The problem is that when someone tells his viewpoints on a subject I am interested in, I do not accept them without questioning the reasoning behind it.

1.This is nice, to learn but when you start to know too?

2. Then you will perfectly understand that people don't accept from you too your statements without questioning the reasoning behind it. As I know people, they will question your motives even after the death of Turbo, when you are a widow.

[vwrw]

From I/O: it seems you have learnt nothing from that experience.

vwrw: It ONLY seems to you.

From I/O: Imitation is the greatest form of admiration,…


vwrw LOL… it is true. And I really admire you, sometimes.

[I/O]

vwrw LOL… it is true. And I really admire you

Women do that. Just a cross I have to bear.

I/O

[vwrw]

I/O,I guessed that a long time ago. And that is why I tried to hide my admiration of you.