Kherson Girls

[Icarus]

Hi, just after some feedback, or experiences with Kherson Girls.

They seem to advertise the fact they are American owned quite a bit, but the number of spelling errors suggest otherwise.

I know that foreign owned doesnt necessarily make it better so I wanted to ask the other members here.

I also find their fees for services rather high. Overpriced?

Ick

[Rvrwind]

Kevin's an honest guy & runs an honest shop.
Can't find too many better out there.
As for fee's well we all gotta make money & things here certainly are not as cheap as they used to be. Lets face it, you get what you pay for.
Yeah, his spelling sucks, no doubt, but that don't make him a bad guy, just a guy who doesn't use an editor or spell check  .
You could always try HRB/RLM  or Aweb or CC, geee you'll get your money's worth at any of them.  :selfharm:

[Jack]

hey Icarus,  u have problem with Kevin's spelling?  gee, I kan read his riting just fine. 

Icarus, in my opinion u will not find a more honest agency owner.

[Icarus]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the help.

Im trying to follow the RWD 10 Commandments, particularly with regard to removing the agency from ther scenario as early as possible.

Plus, my own motivation to avoid the pay-per-letter systems, I personally found Kherson Girls to be an honest business; the girls may be otherwise but the ownets I feel, and from your recommendations are authentic and honest.

What may be a good idea, in separating the membership type agencys (also warehouse agencys) against the per letter system. This might be a good piece of info for newbies looking to break into the world of FSUW dating.

Ick

[Rvrwind]

What may be a good idea, in separating the membership type agency's (also warehouse agency's) against the per letter system. This might be a good piece of info for newbies looking to break into the world of FSUW dating.

You may find that a good idea for you (the man) but not so good for her.
Unless she has excellent English skills most still use an agency to translate their correspondence. I have several that use my agency, that even though there English is quite passable they still prefer their correspondence in Russian, their first language. It makes for far less misunderstandings. These ladies pay themselves to have the correspondence translated even though the guy is writing them direct.
Although most men think they can write direct & avoid an agency 7 times out of 10 that puts the onus on her to have the letter translated. As we all know online translators are pretty much useless when it comes to meaningfull content & the only solution is a live translator that is well educated in the subtleties of the English & Russian languages.
These ladies are not in our agency & met men over the freesites but use us to translate their letters. Most question why the guy is so cheap he won't pay for the translations through an agency & I usually just say, ask him not me. So if that is the picture you wish to portray by all means go for it.
I personally think this attitude of separating from the agency is a bit over the top. A good honest agency is there to help facilitate the correspondence & work towards helping build a meaningful relationship between two people. Of course a less than honest agency is just there to take your money & run. Its up to you to pick the one that helps you the most while taking the least but for a lot of ladies the agency is never totally out of the picture even though you are not writing through them they are still involved in many cases.

[Icarus]

Rvrwind,

I understand what youre saying, youre running a business not a charity. But, shouldnt the men have the choice in this. I mean we are the ones that fly over, that do the work. Granted the women have a substantial role to play, but the onus shouldnt always be on the men. I feel that the men should have the choice whether to pay for a translation of a letter or not.

Its true, we seek FSUW, who are not native English speakers, so we should be learning their language. They, the women have applied, or joined an agency that puts them in contact with foreign men. They know from the begining that we speak English. So its a catch 22 Im afraid. Im a man, so Im going to favour the approach that both parties need to contribute, but if I feel not to have all my letters translated so be it.

Yes some agents are good, some are bad. But when an agent forbids you to even include your own personal contact details, or those of the lady in question from your letters, but then charges an inflated price for her address I find their interest lies in their wallets not the sincerity of proving a communication medium for 2 parties.

Anyway, thats my thoughts.

Ick
 

[I/O]

Icarus: I have never used an on the ground agent, therefore I think I can speak somewhat objectively if less informed than some. Firstly I know nothing of them personally but have read and heard several good reports regarding Kherson Girls and I have never heard a bad report.

What to do with an agent? Personally I think many agents want to be everything to everyone and end up being nothing to anyone.  Further, there is many more bad clients out there than there is bad agents.

Think of an agent as a divorce lawyer. (If I may for the moment) How many times have you heard people say, my so and so lawyer was no good and I got screwed in the court? Who's fault was that? Nine times out of ten it was the clients fault for not giving the lawyer accurate or complete information. 

IMO an agents job is to make the introduction and then STF up. From there on his purpose to you should be logistical support.  He cannot directly help you build a relationship.  He can offer terp services, travel services, apartments, hotels, tours and a host of other logistical things.  Some agents more than others. He can not insure she is not a pro dater or a bitch. That is not his job. That is up to you to figure out.  Likewise he can't insure she is the one for you.  Again, it's up to you.

The first thing you need to do is figure out what you want and then CLUE YOUR AGENT IN. Then you are entitled to request pricing on everything and give him a brief of what you want. Know what you want, get what you pay for and expect to pay for what you get.

Final point. The cost of everything is on your head, both practically and ethically.  The fact that you or I travel half way round the world is of no consequence to her in the first instance.  She may recognise this later, but don't expect any recognition of it up front. You chose to paddle the boat.  She chose to sit on the dock and wait because there is plenty more ships steaming oops I mean dreaming across the sea headed right for her dock. Get any thoughts of equality of obligation right out of your head if you are serious because that just ain't the way it is.

I/O

[neo]

Icarus.


with regard to Kherson Girls, they have been around for the entire 10 years i have been in this debacle and i have not heard a single bad word about them. I agree Kevin is a good guy, i have never used them for the simple fact i usually choose agencies based on actually being interested int the girls they represent. im not going to go to a Porsche dealership to buy a porsche simply because the dealer is nice and does a good service. If i want a ferrari i will got to a ferrari dealership even if the dealer is a complete scmuck because at the end of the day once i drive away i dont ever have to deal with him again. i hope you get the analogy.

That said, If there are girls on Kherskon Girls you like you won't go far wrong, because i have been on teh boards a long time and they have many happy matches and he was one of the first to take a really hard line on trying to stop scammers so i think he is a good guy.

WRT to the agency sites. you are confusing 2 things. The pay per play system at HRB and AW vs the pay per letter to cover handling it and translating it.

WRT to the pay per play system and HRB and AW then EVERY GUY ON EARTH should avoid these "credit systems" for the simple fact is you are being extorted. They are charging you per correspondance but the extortion is that tehy control the actual contact details of the girl and if you complain, or dont pay what they want or whatever they simply withold your girls details. thats just extortion pure and simple.

if you have your girls address and contact details however, then there is NOTHING wrong with paying 5 bucks a letter or 10 bucks a letter, or however much to have the conveinence of being able to email the letter to an agent, have them translate it and for hte girl to be able to pick up her mail in person at a local agents.

This is a good expedited tried and tested forumal for the following reasons:

Firstly,  a lot of women can't afford expensive home PC's and internet connections, those that can can't always afford to find credit for pay as you go internet time either at home or in a internet cafe. You have to be realistic in that as important as your letters are to you most RW might be getting 100 or more guys a year writing, of which if 1 shows up she will probably be in shock, so a lot of RW do it because its a nice "dream" its something that gives them hope, but they are pragmatic and they are not going to starve themselves to write to a bunch of guys who may never show their faces. So in that respect given that most of the guys that write (you never hear of them) simply write for 10 months and rack up a huge bill for the woman that never ends. my ex wife hada guy she really quite liked from his letters but he wrote to her for 11 months and simply woldnt get his ass on a plane. she was furious at the waste of time money and effort.

Secondly, the most convenient thing for a lot of women is to be able to collect their mail from a agency, that means if they have 10 letters or whatever they can go ont he way to the gym or home or whatever and collect their mails. go home and when they have a spare time they can write their replies then drop them back into the agents who can then process them and get them back to the guys.

I actually have friends on teh ground who work in agents and you cannot underesitmate what a useful social function these local agents serve to their women clients. a lot of women use them in the same way we use our forums, to really talk to other women who are going through the same things and give emotional support to each other.

you are complaining about paying a few bucks to send a letter and get it translated, and tbh whille i applaud guys not for throwing money at the HRB or AW money machine i deplore guys who want to put the costs on RW.

the reality is it depends how succesful you want to be. Firstly the reason YOU should pay is that if you are writing to a lot of girls then you may not even meet some of them, and you are asking them to pay for your "enquiries". as i have pointed out you are not the only guy so that could get expensive and the reality is that if you are up against 10 guys and they all paid for the translation and you didnt, who do you think she is going to reply to????

This is also a question of your long term attitude to money, if you want to marry a RW and bring her to your country then you are going to have to become financially responsible for her during a lot of that process when she cant work. for example if you are speaking to a woman with poor english skills then it could be a couple of years before her english is of a good enough standard she is able to get a job in your country, so i think the letter expense is the least of your problems.

Id also like to say the door swings both ways, guys always talk about red flags, and all the RW i know also talk about red flags with men. Things like this are HUGE red flags to them that you are mean with money, they don't want you to be wasteful but they also expect you to be a gentleman and any sign that you are cheap will put a huge red flag up to them and have them imagining themselves starving in rags with no shoes in a country they cant get home from.

My general advice is you either need to choose your matches directly then if you target women who speak no english, learn russian, or pay to use one of the many agents mail forwarding services with prepaid responses or use a good local agent that has a good rep and offers some sort of well priced correspondance and trip package where all the costs are shown up front.


but i agree you should steer well clear of the "warehouse" type pay per plays because unline mail forwarding agenies the introduction of the third party into the equation means you havent got a first clue who you are speaking to or if your mails even get sent to who you think they do or the replies are genuine. at least with a local agency you have some redress but with the warehouse operators they just use their muscle to shut you down.

[Rvrwind]

Here we go again:

Its true, we seek FSUW, who are not native English speakers, so we should be learning their language.

Exactly & you will find that most RW are inclined to agree with you. You came looking for them you should learn Russian!

They, the women have applied, or joined an agency that puts them in contact with foreign men. They know from the beginning that we speak English.

Wrong & most I know will disagree. They signed up to find a man & love, from where he comes from is of no real concern. Why should she spend $$$'s & time learning English to wind up with a Spanish guy, or a German guy. It doesn't even make sense. Thats why many who don't already know English are content to wait till they find a man & then learn his language.
I find most AM especially are of the opinion that they should bloody well learn English. Sorry to say you are arrogant fools, period.
I just had a woman in my office the other day that wanted us to intercede with the English teacher to get her money refunded. Why? Because she spent 6 months taking English lessons & is about to marry a guy from Portugal & feels her money was wasted learning English as now she has to learn Portuguese! It happens quite often so get over yourself. Just because a woman is on a dating site or registered with an agency doesn't mean she is only looking for an American or an English speaker or that she will even wind up with one. Far more Europeans are writing to my ladies than Americans, Canadians & Brits combined!!
I also find Europeans much easier to deal with as they are certainly not tightwads about a little letter writing & are quite content that the lady does not know their language but can learn it quite quickly when the time comes. Most Westerners have a far too high opinion of themselves.

So its a catch 22 I'm afraid. I'm a man, so I'm going to favour the approach that both parties need to contribute, but if I feel not to have all my letters translated so be it.

Actually, no its not. Its you flouting your superiority & ignorance on some poor women who 9 times out 10 makes a pittance in wages compared to you. With such an approach & attitude you will need all the help you can get. Good luck with that.

[Kuna]

Ick,

The alternate to the problem about translaton costs etc is to only correspond with women that already speak (at least) good Engish.  In doing so you'll still need to be patient and understanding because it is difficult for them to maintain complex discussions.

I actually had a couple of letters to My Girl translated but only because it freshened up some of the discussion and gave her a bit of a break from English.  You'll find the girls that speak good English are better in the mornings than when they are tired at night.

Incidentally, My Girl has a friend that has decided she wants to follow My Girls path but she doesn't speak English.  She's serious so what did she do?  She went and bought some books and is learning herself.  This takes serious dedication but in my opinion that is a quallity we shoud be looking for.

All the best...

Kuna

[Icarus]

Why should she spend $$$'s & time learning English to wind up with a Spanish guy, or a German guy. It doesn't even make sense. Thats why many who don't already know English are content to wait till they find a man & then learn his language.

Rvrwind,
Thanks for pointing this out to me. I honestly did not see it from that perspective. I guarantee I will remember it.

I find most AM especially are of the opinion that they should bloody well learn English. Sorry to say you are arrogant fools, period.

I disagree with this. I admit there is the mentality of American superiority etc, but I feel this is more of cultural trait; I wouldnt go as far as call them arrogant fools, but more close-minded.
 

I also find Europeans much easier to deal with as they are certainly not tightwads about a little letter writing...

spoken like a true agency owner.

Most Westerners have a far too high opinion of themselves.Actually, no its not. Its you flouting your superiority & ignorance...

Were here to discuss issues, not trade insults. Ive lived in the West, so I know first hand of the US ego (of some, not all), but guess what? You can find that in any country, it just manifests itself in different ways.

With such an approach & attitude you will need all the help you can get. Good luck with that.

Thank you, thats why Im here to learn as much as I can, and to not make the mistakes that you have. Cheers mate 

[Rvrwind]

I disagree with this. I admit there is the mentality of American superiority etc, but I feel this is more of cultural trait; I wouldnt go as far as call them arrogant fools, but more close-minded.

Cultural trait??? Now that brought a smile to my face!

spoken like a true agency owner.

Owning an agency has nothing to do with it, it is a fact. Most Canadians are just as bad...nickel & dime you to death & still expect to get it for free!! Then get pissed if all goes wrong, welll, you get what you pay for...

Were here to discuss issues, not trade insults. Ive lived in the West, so I know first hand of the US ego (of some, not all), but guess what? You can find that in any country, it just manifests itself in different ways.

True, so I apolgize for the insult but that doesn't change the fact that Europeans are much easier to deal with from a business point of veiw. Much less demanding & much easier to please & in many cases more rational & realistic in their expectationsl.

Thank you, thats why Im here to learn as much as I can, and to not make the mistakes that you have. Cheers mate

And what mistakes might those be? I have been happily married to a beautiful RW for 3+ years & we lived together before that. When you can say the same or better then you can call mine a mistake, but being as your still looking after 2+ years it might be a good idea to find one first.

The alternate to the problem about translaton costs etc is to only correspond with women that already speak (at least) good Engish.  In doing so you'll still need to be patient and understanding because it is difficult for them to maintain complex discussions.

As I said up thread Kuna...Many of them still use our services to translate the letters & pay for it themselves. The guy never even knows & she will probably never tell him even if asked. So don't be so positive that the English speaking woman you are writing really has good English.

[Bruno]

... But, shouldnt the men have the choice in this. I mean we are the ones that fly over, that do the work. Granted the women have a substantial role to play, but the onus shouldnt always be on the men...

Icarus, sorry to say it but you are not ready for seek or marry a foreign bride...

You seem to think that men have all rights because they take a plane and pay for some tourist stay...

In these process, it is the woman who have the more to loose... she need to adaapt to a new culture, quit her actual job and be fully dependant from a men ( certainly during the first year )... once with you, her friend and familly are thousand kilometer away...

So, you $$$ or time is very little valuewhen compare to what RW loose when marrying a RW... So much guys think that that have all the right because they spend some money ( and usually money is spend on the agency, not the ladies )...

Foreign dating is not the same that when you buy a new car... in so case, you pay and the car have nothing to say... you seem very similar to these "pig" tourist who think that they can make everything in our country because they have pay a trip and some hotel...

You are surely so guy in shining armor who think that they save the tender russian princes... Middle-age periode is not existing in Russia... RW have strong character and they don't need your superiority complex or your pity...

[Bruno]

WRT to the pay per play system and HRB and AW then EVERY GUY ON EARTH should avoid these "credit systems" for the simple fact is you are being extorted. They are charging you per correspondance but the extortion is that tehy control the actual contact details of the girl and if you complain, or dont pay what they want or whatever they simply withold your girls details. thats just extortion pure and simple.

It is maybe a concurrence problem... it have already happen that agencyA register like a customer on agencyB... and buy the contact information from the more interesting ladies... of course, the IMBRA have allow several agency for not give the contact information...

Now, about expense and mailing, you have one other case... by example, with www.svetlanasbrides.com , for normal e-mail, you pay nothing... the lady pay a little fee... of course, in these case, no translation... if you send photo or require translation, you pay some little fee... so agency don't become rich with mail or e-mail communication... the catch is simple... during the meeting, if you find the right lady, they ask a matchmaking fee of 300$... So model of agency have really a interest that you find the right lady and marry her !!! Other only need letter exchange...

So model of agency is not so different from the local one in Belgium with work with local people... a little fee for unlimited membership and a big fee in case of matchmaking... so model are real marriage agency, the rest is only fowarding mail agency, translation agency or tour agency... not a real matchmaking/marriage agency...

But the majority of guy are greedy... they prefert to pay a few $$$ for letter that pay a big fee for matchmaking... in the long term, the pay by letter will become more expensive that the big fee... of course, all men think that they will find the right lady very fast and will not use a lot of money... but very few find directly what they wish...

[Bruno]

They signed up to find a man & love, from where he comes from is of no real concern.

Ohhhh... i have say it so much time and i was called a fool... yes, US people are the majority of customer... when i was owner of agency, they was around 45% of customer... but i will certainly not forget the 55% for the sake of US people... specially when European visit or receive more visit... yep, tourist visa for FSU ladies in Europa is possible and for us, european, a trip to FSU is not expensive or far... sorry to say it, but when i was owner, i have know too much "non-show" from US guys... on women forum, they are called "keyboard romeo"... but any good side have a back side... the level of sex tourist is too much high on the European side... cheap and short trip ( time ) allow it...

I also find Europeans much easier to deal with as they are certainly not tightwads about a little letter writing & are quite content that the lady does not know their language but can learn it quite quickly when the time comes. Most Westerners have a far too high opinion of themselves.Actually, no its not. Its you flouting your superiority & ignorance on some poor women who 9 times out 10 makes a pittance in wages compared to you.

Ignorance, maybe... superiority, i don't think... US is a real country, not Europe... this lead to some cultural difference... in US, you have only one main language... english... and the majority of people there live in US, take holiday in US, etc... Several American have no international passport... but internet have allow the world to reach them... so, the problem with US is only ignorance... and forum like these help them to correct these problem... if the US GOV was really wishing help the guys and ladies involved with the international dating, they will cancel the IMBRA and make a new law who obligate men who wish to marry a foreign bride to use a forum like these during 24 hours minimum before begin communicate with a RW... will be beneficial at all level...

Now, the more "positive" side of European is due that we are not a country... we are a bunch of country linked with some economic and political laws... but same at the lower level, when i see my country, Belgium... yep, Belgium is very little... total population similar to these of Moscow... but we have already 3 national language : French, Dutch, German... and of course, several people learn the "business" language at school who is the English... In so situation, language of the bride is a low problem for us... we already know it at the local level and from our young have, we have learn to deal with it... again, in the case of US, it is a ignorance problem... not due to people but geographie... US have only a north and South border... interne distance are big... same if they claim it, they are not really a "melting pot" when related to nationality... but the US is now a full country... Europa is not a country but only some united states... Europe have tourist visa for FSU people, not US ( exist but very difficult to have )... Europe have 20 or more language in a little zone, it help to have a more open mind about language... US is only English ( and Spanish )...

Richard, don't compare "apple" and "citrus"... they are different and both have own advantage... and problem... the only positive thing is that scammer think that we are too much greedy in Europa and that tree with Golden apple only exist in US... for the rest, Europa is not better that US... only different...

[Jack]

 
  More bs time from Bruno?   

  Bruno do you just like to hear yourself talk or what?    :noidea:   Do you ever look at the subject matter and try to respond to the question asked in an effecient manner?    :noidea:

  This man asked one simple question,.... "just after some feedback, or experiences with Kherson Girls".
 
  Where, show me one time, one place in your 68 lines of crap, where you address the members one simple question.    :noidea:   It's ok to get a little off topic but 68 lines and never once addressing the original question?   :burnedup:   Would it be possiable for you to start a new thread rather than blabbering away on this guys topic?    :noidea:







Icarus, sorry to say it but you are not ready for seek or marry a foreign bride...

You seem to think that men have all rights because they take a plane and pay for some tourist stay...

In these process, it is the woman who have the more to loose... she need to adaapt to a new culture, quit her actual job and be fully dependant from a men ( certainly during the first year )... once with you, her friend and familly are thousand kilometer away...

So, you $$$ or time is very little valuewhen compare to what RW loose when marrying a RW... So much guys think that that have all the right because they spend some money ( and usually money is spend on the agency, not the ladies )...

Foreign dating is not the same that when you buy a new car... in so case, you pay and the car have nothing to say... you seem very similar to these "pig" tourist who think that they can make everything in our country because they have pay a trip and some hotel...

You are surely so guy in shining armor who think that they save the tender russian princes... Middle-age periode is not existing in Russia... RW have strong character and they don't need your superiority complex or your pity...
It is maybe a concurrence problem... it have already happen that agencyA register like a customer on agencyB... and buy the contact information from the more interesting ladies... of course, the IMBRA have allow several agency for not give the contact information...

Now, about expense and mailing, you have one other case... by example, with www.svetlanasbrides.com , for normal e-mail, you pay nothing... the lady pay a little fee... of course, in these case, no translation... if you send photo or require translation, you pay some little fee... so agency don't become rich with mail or e-mail communication... the catch is simple... during the meeting, if you find the right lady, they ask a matchmaking fee of 300$... So model of agency have really a interest that you find the right lady and marry her !!! Other only need letter exchange...

So model of agency is not so different from the local one in Belgium with work with local people... a little fee for unlimited membership and a big fee in case of matchmaking... so model are real marriage agency, the rest is only fowarding mail agency, translation agency or tour agency... not a real matchmaking/marriage agency...

But the majority of guy are greedy... they prefert to pay a few $$$ for letter that pay a big fee for matchmaking... in the long term, the pay by letter will become more expensive that the big fee... of course, all men think that they will find the right lady very fast and will not use a lot of money... but very few find directly what they wish...

Ohhhh... i have say it so much time and i was called a fool... yes, US people are the majority of customer... when i was owner of agency, they was around 45% of customer... but i will certainly not forget the 55% for the sake of US people... specially when European visit or receive more visit... yep, tourist visa for FSU ladies in Europa is possible and for us, european, a trip to FSU is not expensive or far... sorry to say it, but when i was owner, i have know too much "non-show" from US guys... on women forum, they are called "keyboard romeo"... but any good side have a back side... the level of sex tourist is too much high on the European side... cheap and short trip ( time ) allow it...

Ignorance, maybe... superiority, i don't think... US is a real country, not Europe... this lead to some cultural difference... in US, you have only one main language... english... and the majority of people there live in US, take holiday in US, etc... Several American have no international passport... but internet have allow the world to reach them... so, the problem with US is only ignorance... and forum like these help them to correct these problem... if the US GOV was really wishing help the guys and ladies involved with the international dating, they will cancel the IMBRA and make a new law who obligate men who wish to marry a foreign bride to use a forum like these during 24 hours minimum before begin communicate with a RW... will be beneficial at all level...

Now, the more "positive" side of European is due that we are not a country... we are a bunch of country linked with some economic and political laws... but same at the lower level, when i see my country, Belgium... yep, Belgium is very little... total population similar to these of Moscow... but we have already 3 national language : French, Dutch, German... and of course, several people learn the "business" language at school who is the English... In so situation, language of the bride is a low problem for us... we already know it at the local level and from our young have, we have learn to deal with it... again, in the case of US, it is a ignorance problem... not due to people but geographie... US have only a north and South border... interne distance are big... same if they claim it, they are not really a "melting pot" when related to nationality... but the US is now a full country... Europa is not a country but only some united states... Europe have tourist visa for FSU people, not US ( exist but very difficult to have )... Europe have 20 or more language in a little zone, it help to have a more open mind about language... US is only English ( and Spanish )...

Richard, don't compare "apple" and "citrus"... they are different and both have own advantage... and problem... the only positive thing is that scammer think that we are too much greedy in Europa and that tree with Golden apple only exist in US... for the rest, Europa is not better that US... only different...

[Bruno]

...More bs time from Bruno?   

  Bruno do you just like to hear yourself talk or what?    :noidea:   Do you ever look at the subject matter and try to respond to the question asked in an effecient manner?    :noidea:

  This man asked one simple question,.... "just after some feedback, or experiences with Kherson Girls".
 
  Where, show me one time, one place in your 68 lines of crap, where you address the members one simple question.    :noidea:   It's ok to get a little off topic but 68 lines and never once addressing the original question?   :burnedup:   Would it be possiable for you to start a new thread rather than blabbering away on this guys topic?    :noidea:
...
Icarus, sorry to say it but you are not ready for seek or marry a foreign bride...

Very funny Jack A$$... first a few line to try destroy what i explain... and finaly, you reach the same conclusion that me... in red bold in the quote...

Do you need that i explain how my post is related to Kherson Girls and Kevin... Simple, take a look at http://www.honestmarriageagency.com/ ... A Kevin site... Svetlana bride it there... i am there too, same if my site is dead now, i am always ready to help other... hmmm... and you are in these list too... Seem that everything in linked...

Jack, why don't help really people in place of attack/insult other... you reach the same conclmusion that me... he is not yet ready and certainly need to read more of these or other forum... do you think that insulting or attacking me will make your similar point of view more credible ? Your are a a$$hole but a good one... maybe not always PC but you care of your customer ( what very few agency make )... BUT you always try to expose the problem from other... it is time that you show your OWN quality, these who make you different from other agency... Jack, you are one of the good guy but you behalf on forum like a bad one... You, Richard, Kevin, the guy from Lviv ( don't remember his name ) and some other are good owner... but the fact that some of you fight each other don't help the honest agency... who will believe in our message if we fight each other !!!

Jack, maybe only a few % of what i have wrote will help Icarus... the question of Icarus was tuned on ONE agency... what is the better way... only say to Icarus that Kevin agency is a good one or give him the "method" who will allow him to find good agencies and discard the bad one... don't you think that it is better to learn someone to fish that give him a fish where he can eat for one day only...

And never forget, the name of these forum is RWD... where the "D" mean discussion... and seriously... who are you for judge that my reply is not good for these Icarus... let speak Icarus himself... it is his topic, not yours... if he don't like my reply, he is enough adult to say it himself and don't need you... and seriously, reading his post, i am almost sure that he will reply with his how arguments but not with a "BS" comment like you...

[Jack]

Bruno I do help others, I also call a spade a spade which is what you don't like.   Trying to get you to stay on topic for ONCE is not attacking.   It 's just more Bruno bs.  Thread after thread bruno you are "lost in space" time and time again.   Did you see what the guy asked,  "just after some feedback, or experiences with Kherson Girls"  and what did you do Bruno?  68 lines of blah, blah, blah and not once did you address his question but instead you ramble on.  Why not ONCE try to address the topic of the thread?  Why don't you start your own thread of bull shit bruno instead of ruining others?

[Kuna]

Ick,

Don't listen to those who say "you're not ready to seek a foreign bride".  From what I know of you you're more ready than many that start this journey...  and you're right, RWD is exactly the right place for you to ask questions and resolve the questions that are on your mind.

I wonder if people would say you were ready for an International marriage if you were ready to spray cash around and were planning a trip Pike's.  I didn't see ANYONE tell Pike he wasn't ready for marriage even though it was clear he wasn't.

Anyway...  as for your contribution (flying over/costs/etc) I would suggest you rearrange your thought process on this as an investment in your own education and fun.  You are taking the trip and you will gain wonderful benefits and memories from that trip.  If you find someone you wish to marry eventually you've then hit to jackpot.

When going about spending your hard earned cash there's nothing wrong with looking for "value for money". If not you can end up like many others that waste much more than necessary and then complain about agencies ripping them off etc.  There's several paths available to you and you need to choose the one right for you.

Some men like a "full service" type deal... others want to be a more indpendant traveler.  You're the only one that can decide that.

Keep asking your questions mate... RWD exists for people just like you!

Kuna

[Bruno]

Bruno I do help others, I also call a spade a spade which is what you don't like.   Trying to get you to stay on topic for ONCE is not attacking.   It 's just more Bruno bs.  Thread after thread bruno you are "lost in space" time and time again.   Did you see what the guy asked,  "just after some feedback, or experiences with Kherson Girls"  and what did you do Bruno?  68 lines of blah, blah, blah and not once did you address his question but instead you ramble on.  Why not ONCE try to address the topic of the thread?  Why don't you start your own thread of bull *snip* bruno instead of ruining others?

Yep, i know you reputation... "customer" like you since you make the max for them... you have a enough open language and it is not a problem for me...BUT somebody having similar idea that you but not having the same way to explain it, seem to put you in attack mode... take example of Richard... he is a man who call "a spade a spade"... Richard can be rought but he is always saying his meaning with polite word... maybe sometime he use the hard way but he keep himself civilized...

And like i say before, it is not YOUR topic... if my reply was not good, allow Icarus to make his own comment... if he say that my post are not what he ask, i will shud-up... Your are not the police of RWD, it is not YOUR topic... so, close your mouth and calm down...

[Rvrwind]

Trying to get you to stay on topic for ONCE is not attacking.

Hate to say it Jack but thats just a little bit like the pot calling the kettle black. :noidea: I recall a few threads where you have done exactly the same thing. I also think there is more to your criticism of Bruno than you are showing. JMHO
Sorry for keeping things off topic Icarus.
Anyway whatever you should decide I wish you luck. You can't go wrong with Kevin, he'll help you all he can.

[Bruno]

Ick,

Don't listen to those who say "you're not ready to seek a foreign bride".  From what I know of you you're more ready than many that start this journey...  and you're right, RWD is exactly the right place for you to ask questions and resolve the questions that are on your mind.

Ahhh... finally someone who really reply and who is not in the attack mode...

Seem that you know more about Icarus that me... my point was make on the fact that he seem to think that men are master since they spend money on agency...

Kuna, same if you have not use a agency, in your own case... do you think that you have more right that your ladies because you have spend money for the trip ? i think that your relationship is based on a mutual respect and not on who have spend the more money and who "own" the other... you never buy a bride... but you buy service of agency ( translation, address, guide ( you hate them ), etc )...

the way Icarus have make is question make me think about business deal, not about relationship.. maybe my feeling is wrong but it is how i feel it in these topic...

In some way, remember the real Icarus story... he was flying... already a wonder... but he have forget the sun... and you know the result... a "crash"... and the last thing that i wish is that someone know a "crash"...

In any case, i agree with you that Icarus is at the right place for ask question... RWD ( or other forum ) need to be the first step for people who seek a Russian wife... but a lot of people come here ( or other place ) only after some misluck...

[Bruno]

Hate to say it Jack but thats just a little bit like the pot calling the kettle black. :noidea: I recall a few threads where you have done exactly the same thing. I also think there is more to your criticism of Bruno than you are showing. JMHO

Richard, Jack ad me have know diiferent opinion in the past... and seriously i will not worry about Jack... same if he is a pain in the a$$, he is one of the good guy... like you, he take care of his customer... like you or Kevin, he seel some profit... but they are minimal profit and care more about good reputation... simply Jack cannot keep a low profile but it change nothing to his good service...

Ok, Jack hate me... i don't care... and about his business, i cannot say something wrong, he seem honest with his customer... it is the more important... hey, if Icarus don't find the right/needed lady on your site or the Kevin site, i recommend him to seek on Jack site... same if i don't like him, he make a good work...

To be on topic, yes, Kevin is good... but he is limited in the regio Kerson ( not really true... expand the regio wkherson with the "oblast" Odessa, Nikolaev )... Richard is ther oblast ( maybe Moscow too )... and jack is everywhere... he is the between person... he know a lot of local agency, suck them for the best price for his customer...

Hey... i am ill... i defend Jack now... but seriously, at the business level, he is not a bad guy...

So, dear Icarius... who is enough silent on these topic, his own topic... Kevin is good news for kherson, Odessa, Nikolaev... Richard is good new for Tver and maybe Moscow... Jack is good news almost overal ( some local agency, usualy the bad one, refuse to work with him )... some other agencies are good too but very few... free site like freepersonal.ru ( english ) or love.xa-xa.org ( russian ) are good news only if you read these forum first ( scammer problem but a lot of women )...

Good agency exist... use them... but personally, i think that Icarus need to read more here before begin... not specially muy post but these  from other in other topic... it seem to me that he is contaninated by "advice" from some other agency.... that he need to forget some myth and know the sock of the reality...

[Kuna]

Ahhh... finally someone who really reply and who is not in the attack mode...

Seem that you know more about Icarus that me... my point was make on the fact that he seem to think that men are master since they spend money on agency...

Kuna, same if you have not use a agency, in your own case... do you think that you have more right that your ladies because you have spend money for the trip ? i think that your relationship is based on a mutual respect and not on who have spend the more money and who "own" the other... you never buy a bride... but you buy service of agency ( translation, address, guide ( you hate them ), etc )...

the way Icarus have make is question make me think about business deal, not about relationship.. maybe my feeling is wrong but it is how i feel it in these topic...

In some way, remember the real Icarus story... he was flying... already a wonder... but he have forget the sun... and you know the result... a "crash"... and the last thing that i wish is that someone know a "crash"...

In any case, i agree with you that Icarus is at the right place for ask question... RWD ( or other forum ) need to be the first step for people who seek a Russian wife... but a lot of people come here ( or other place ) only after some misluck...

Bruno,

(I think I can say this)... Ick has a high academic background and I am assuming he will approach this with much more logic than emotion.  I think some men come here ask questions and choose the advice they like best... and that is the path they will follow.

Others are more likely to ask questions and develop some kind of mental formula to weigh up all advice before they decide on path that suits them best.

I also read his question and thought it was more about Vaue For Money rather than the actual amount of money spent. I don't HATE guides... I just think we DESERVE value for money when we engage service providers.  If we get value we should be happy.

I'm assuming Ick doesn't want to spend needlessly with agencies but like most good men he won't have a problem spending money on a lady.  One way to do this is to find a lady with good English skills already... and then later he can choose to have the odd letter translated as a bit of a holilday from English for her.

All in all it's great he is here asking questions.  He's already ahead of the game when compared to men who believe the agency hype and travel with little or no real knowledge.

Kuna

[Bruno]

... Ick has a high academic background and I am assuming he will approach this with much more logic than emotion...

Maybe a little  but not really since it is related to the Icarius case...

Kuna, forget about the education level being something who is a tool in these process... until now, not yet one man is able to understand woman at 100%...

I am a high level expert in weapon and a medium level expert in gardening... in no case, my knowledge can be related to relationship... some thinking process can follow a similar way but the material is related to thing very differend...

You can see it at the level of everyday life... some people need a electrician for change a lamp... so people go to a garage for change oil of car... some are too much lazy for make it themself but some don't know how to make it... these who don't know can be nuclear ingenieur... education ready yourself for your speciality... and until now, i don't know one school who give a serious course related to international dating...

The only recept that i know is keep a open mind and build your own way... never copy other except if you are 100% like them ( who is not possible )...

And about emotion, i think that it is a major part in relationship... without emotion, it is not a relationship but a business deal...