The First Date. Where?

[I/O]

I am no expert on dating Russian or women from other FSU countries, however as I have stumbled along my way, a number of things have occurred to me in retrospect which I was too stupid or blind to see in the early days.  This topic is not designed to discuss how to search for a partner, whether it is via an agent, internet site, newspaper ads or other means.  The question under this topic is where to look?

If you are a freshman either to RWD or to this entire process of finding a foreign partner, then take comfort, you are way ahead of the current pack of guys and light years ahead of the where the likes of me was when I started.  Why? Because you have discovered IMO the best single resource applying to this subject on the internet at this time. As I ponder many errors of judgment and unnecessary time, expenses and other resources I misused in the early days, I wax, if only….!!! If only I had a resource such as this to advise me.

At the outset you simply must spend some time and even perhaps buy professional advice on introspection. Understand yourself to a reasonable extent.  Understand why you want to go this road. Understand where you have come from and why you are at “destination now”. I strongly urge you to be brutally honest with yourself.  It is not necessary to share that with others, but it is necessary to have that self awareness.

How you have decided upon the best “Search Engine” is your call and a subject for discussions elsewhere. Fact is you have decided, be it agent, internet or other.  Now where? Oh…!! You say, I cannot know where my love will be found.  Correct but…!!!  The FSU is a huge geographic area.  Do you know how huge? Russia alone is 5-7 times the size of the USA. Would you travel from LA to New York between dates? Most would not. Most would say there is more than enough women in LA or more than enough women in New York, why would I travel so far? Then ask yourself the question, why, when you have probably 2 weeks or less would you fly halfway around the world and then proceed to travel the distance LA-New York or greater between dates? Does it make sense?  Of course it does not.

Pick a location. Maybe not one city, but perhaps, one region. For example, if you choose Kiev, there is a huge population base and a large number of moderate sized towns and cities within relatively easy reach. If you choose Krasnoyarsk in Siberia, you will spend at least a day by train to another similar sized city. Flying is not much better by the time you get to the airport, get checked through, fly and reverse the process at the other end. At least a day to transfer between cities is gone.  Just something to consider.

Where is the more fertile hunting ground? I have seen arguments back and forth regarding big city women and small city women and village women and frankly I think most of the arguments I have seen put forward to date are complete and utter rubbish. I have traveled much of Russia and several other FSU countries and I suggest there is tuppence of difference between the women all over.  There is some very fine and wonderful women to be found in Moscow, the biggest of the cities. Likewise I’ve met stunning and highly educated women in Kishinev / Moldova.  Again I was fortunate to socially meet two sisters in a remote Siberian village and those two women by any measure were breath taking personalities and physical beings.

There is no saying that a big city lady will not be comfortable in a new rural location, nor is there any betting a country girl will not like the city, but matters you should, IMO consider are these.  It is generally speaking, more likely you will find greater social sophistication within the bigger cities.  Not to suggest greater moral sophistication, nor the opposite.  Likewise, it is more likely you will find someone looking to improve upon their lifestyle in the smaller cities or villages. I am not suggesting anything is a given, I am pointing out the likelihood. These are some matters you should consider when looking to minimize risks.  Part of your risk management strategy should be to quickly eliminate the unsuitable. This is different for each and every person. What is good for you is ghastly for me and so on.

Consider geography.  Americans are infamous for geographic ignorance. We Aussies are about on par with Americans, that is, in the Aussie vernacular, “Bloody hopeless”.  Meet an FSU lady and challenge her to naming capital cities in various countries. Nine times out of ten she will hand your butt to you in about 2 minutes or less. Get yourself a basic atlas and do some bed time browsing. Consider locations which are realistic for you to reach. No point in spending hours writing to women in locations you know damned well you have no hope or intention of visiting.

For me, Siberia was a fascination and it is little surprise as a result, that, all things being equal, it is most likely I will end up married to a Siberian woman. However, would you be prepared to travel several thousand extra miles to meet a lady who is no better or worse quality human being than you can find in Moscow, Kiev or other major centre? You should consider this.

The purpose of this was and is not to force my ideas onto a freshman, but to give you some “Food for thought”.  The issues I have raised, are very real issues and whatever you decide, you will face them at some stage.

Good hunting.

I/O 

[DCMatt]

Great information.

As one of the new guys, thanks.

[Hub]

Very good analysis and well presented.  Good chance for newbies to read an objective post before it gets cluttered up with more subjective and fanatical views.

[2tallbill]

Consider geography.  Americans are infamous for geographic ignorance. We Aussies are about on par with Americans, that is, in the Aussie vernacular, “Bloody hopeless”. 

Hey who are you calling geographically ignorant?? after all I live in California and isn't our Governor Aussie?? 

Just kidding (drasnit)

Great post IO!!!

Bill

[WmGO]

Nice post I/O........I read it quite fast so not sure if this was
ultimately addressed dead on but...........by all means the first
"date" should be in the woman's hometown. First meetings
outside her country are unwise. When doing a WMVM it is also
a good idea for the men to set up shop in a central city and
train them in so he does not lose time traveling all over the place, although
the latter is much wiser than flying total strangers to Paris, Prague or Istanbul
for a vacation......

[ScottinCrimea]

Unfortunately, most men don't begin this process with a specific location in mind.  They fixate on a pretty face on an agency website and where she lives is irrelevant.  It is only when the logistics of travel or getting her to the US come into play that this becomes relevant.

Most would say they just want to find the right woman no matter where she lives, and this is not wrong, but it becomes much more difficult if increased travel times or visa issues limit the time you can spend together or if immigration policies make it difficult or impossible for her to come to the US.

I think what I/O is saying is that, if you are just beginning and don't yet have your heart set on Svetlana from Qurghoneppa, Tajikistan, then begin your search for the right woman in a place that will make the process easier without necessarily limiting your options.

[I/O]

I think what I/O is saying is that, if you are just beginning and don't yet have your heart set on Svetlana from Qurghoneppa, Tajikistan, then begin your search for the right woman in a place that will make the process easier without necessarily limiting your options.

Scott: What I am suggesting, is if a guy is seriously considering this entire process, whether he makes it up as he goes along or is smart enough to forward plan, he needs something of a plan. Location is a factor, because you will be going back and back if you go the distance. I ultimately went back to Siberia, you went back to Crimea, JB went back to Moscow, KenC went back to Tver, Catz went back to Omsk. If you cant get there in the first place, what's the point.

The point is to be realistic about what you can and can't do before worrying too much about the pretty face in the ad. I have to say that my current relationship may not have survived if I was forced to take the common travel route via Moscow and then double back. Fortunately I found a shorter way into the other side of Russia and as it turns out have made friends along the way whom both of us stop over with. 

Most guys don't plan to fail, but they do fail because the fail to plan.

I/O

[CaptB]

My advice is to choose a city that you will like to go back to "after marriage"......as you will inevitably be returning for a significant amount of your vacation time.  I have met with resistance from many here on this idea.....as most argue that finding a wonderful woman will determine the city. If you have already found someone....I cannot disagree. BUT.........if you are just starting out.........why not choose a city you will always enjoy coming back to. I have met many Russian women, on my trips to to Russia.......who were going back "alone" for visits. Yes....sometimes the husband can't get away from work at that time. But, all too often I here the RW say.....her husband does not want to visit Russia......ever (other than the visits that brought them together). Places I like that I have visted.......Tver, Samara, my wife's hometown of Stavropol, Yoshkar-Ola......all in Russia. And for the record.....I like most of Russia.....it suits my style.


Capt B

[jb]

I agree with the good CaptB.  My wife is from Moscow, which is, IMHO, one of the most interesting cities in the world.  Sadly, my reasons for going back to Russia are fading away.  Since the passing of my MIL last Christmas there are no more close family living there.  We have sold the Moscow flat now so we wouldn't even have a place to stay if we did return.  I'm going to miss that part of the AM/RW marriage.

[Caperone]

Forgive to bring back a topic from the death, but I search for something and this thread was part of what I was looking for.

I was thinking about that. I always lived in cities with between 75,000-250,000 people. I always though it was the ideal size. 2 exceptions: when I when to university (about 2-2.5 millions people) and right now in a small town of 10,000 people until the end of my contract. And even after a few years, I'm not really a big fan of these huge or mini town. (usually for obvious reason) Well, I have less trouble living in a small town like right now than living in Megapolis... I don't mind visiting, but living there, I'd go nuts... 

Would it be smart to try to meet a woman from the biggest cities like Moscow? I'm not thinking about a farm girl, but is there some areas that would be a better place to look at?

Also, If I live in western Canada, would it easier to go to Russia via Pacific Ocean and stop somewhere in Siberia?

[Misha]

Also, If I live in western Canada, would it easier to go to Russia via Pacific Ocean and stop somewhere in Siberia?

Depends what you mean by Siberia. To go to the Russian Far East, you would usually have to fly to Korea (Seoul) and then you could fly to Khabarovsk in the Russian Far East. Then, you would have to fly from Khabarovsk to your destination city. In most cases, it will be more hassle, more time, and more expensive to go this way than simply flying through Moscow. 

[UTRO]

I have to agree with gabaub. Unless you find a woman from Vladivostok, flying East to Moscow from Western Canada, will still get you most anywhere in Russia quicker. Even if you do have to take a 2 1/2 hour cab ride from one Moscow airport to another!
One of my main criteria in finding an RW became her English ability. If you eventually want to bring her to Canada this is a huge advantage. It will allow her to assimilate more easily and allow her to find friends and work. This isn't so much for me as it is for her
I would agree that you should look for a woman who is from the same size city as yourself. Although, North American cities of 250,000 tend to have a much better level of Services, Restaurants, Shopping, etc... than a comparable sized city in the FSU....

[Caperone]

Of course, I'm looking for a woman who can hold some conversation in english (or french as I'm almost fluent in both language, which led me to so many women in Romania...)

Anyway, any suggestions about areas I could look at?

[UTRO]

Of course, I'm looking for a woman who can hold some conversation in english (or french as I'm almost fluent in both language, which led me to so many women in Romania...)

Anyway, any suggestions about areas I could look at?

Moi aussi!
Here's a Website showing the Population of Russian cities. Might be a good start

http://www.citypopulation.de/Russia.html

[docetae]

Don't plan only your first trip... but know already when you will be available again to travel again... If you meet one woman you want to meet again, you should be able to tell her when you will come back.

[Caperone]

That's my problem. I don't decide when I can take time off from work. It's usually a really short notice. 

[Turboguy]

OH GOSH,  I must be slipping.  I haven't posted anything in months that had anyone calling me an idiot.   I have just been a little too busy leading a happy married life to read and post quite as much as I used to and I do miss it. 

Well, here goes.   As far as the thought that a top priority is looking in a city we would enjoy going back and visiting.   Humm,  Shouldn't we be concentrating our efforts on women from Cancun or maybe even San Diego then? 

I spent a lot of time searching.  I was in dozens and dozens of FSU cities in 4 countries looking for the gal who was foolish enough to marry me.  The one thing I did not pay a bit of attention to was how much I would enjoy going back to that city.  I couldn't care less.  I cared a lot more about finding the gal I could be happy with and who would be happy with me.  I did look at how hard it would be to get to that city to meet her or to get her to where she could meet me but that was the only geographical concern I had.   They say different stokes for different folks and each of us has their own ideas about their priorities.   My feelings were always that I wanted the right woman for me and I never cared if she was in the most beautiful city in the world or some god forsaken place where only a fool would tread.

[catzenmouse]

OMG! TG You are Such an IDIOT! 

... feel better now?

Glad to hear things are going well for you both!

Ken

[Turboguy]

Ah, now I feel like I am at the RWD I know and love.  Yes, Thank you Ken.

Yes, things are going well.  In a week my MIL arrives for a month long visit.  VWRW will be very happy to have her here for a while.  We stay pretty busy and we both seem to be very happy together.  Hope things are continuing to go well for you as well.

[Turboguy]

On the topic again another thought I had.  I have been to a whole bunch of cities over there and to be honest I was never in one that I would look at going back to for a family visit as an ordeal.   There may be one or two where I would want to take a gas mask or oxygen supply for all the smokestack air you need to breathe but every metropolis, city, town or villiage has their good qualities and things to enjoy.  I have walked through chickens and pigs to get to the outhouse and spent hours figuring which of the 100 or so metro stops I should be going to.   Big, small, medium, central or remote.  I really to think picking a place you want to go visit is a foolish motive as a major priority.   Go for the woman you dream of finding where ever she is.

[55North]

Whist I would agree with you, TG, in principle, it sure helps one's own enthusiasm if one can end up in an approximation of Russian paradise, and arrive with boundless local knowledge and appreciation to impress the natives, ie. your future in-laws and community. 
 
Even the lady might be impressed.
 
Worked for me.  I was offered a job in her sister-in-law's school, teaching English.  I had to decline because of mortgage commitments, and working towards my lady's citizenship.

[Turboguy]

I thought every place in the FSU was paradise. Actually I think the less enjoyable the location the more likely you will impress the natives.

[TW1970]

Consider geography.  Americans are infamous for geographic ignorance. We Aussies are about on par with Americans, that is, in the Aussie vernacular, “Bloody hopeless”.  Meet an FSU lady and challenge her to naming capital cities in various countries. Nine times out of ten she will hand your butt to you in about 2 minutes or less.

Good post! I am one of those Americans who is bad at geography, USA geography to be more precise. One lady in Ukraine I have been talking with asked me if I had been to the place in the western USA where four states come together. I told her I had never heard about that so I did some checking and she was correct!

[dneid]

Great post I/O!!  Overall, I liked it and I would recommend that all newbies read it.  As I was reading through your post, I reflected on my whole search to date, both pre finding RWD and post finding RWD.

I was amazed at how I was bouncing all over the place, first a cute face from Odessa, then one from Kev, then one from Omsk, then one from Moscow, then on from St. Pete!!! Geesh!  Can we say FSU pin the tail on the donkey?  Then I took a look at an atlas and looked into travel issues with the various cities.... finally settled on Ukraine (see sig).  Why Ukraine?  I guess I like the location.  Maybe I like the more westernized "feel".  Ukrainian history certainly is fascinating.  Then I started meeting and writing a few Ukrainian girls.  I count myself fortunate that I never was sucked in by a scammer.  Oh, sure, I met a few obvious ones and was able to "kick them to the curb" fast.  I can thank you folks here for helping me avoid that mistake.... (I loved the "I love you.  I want to touch you with my fingers and tongue."  on the 4th letter).

Now, I am off to Ukraine.  I was originally planning on Nikolaev/Kherson/Odessa/Mauriopol.  But the girls from Odessa and Mauriopol gave me bad vibes.... so to the curb.....  Then Anastasiya from Kiev fell into the mix from Elenas Models.  So, now we add Kiev to the mix.  Turns out Kiev is not that bad to get to southern Ukraine from.  And, one lady from Nikolaev thought it would be fun to meet in Kiev and spend the weekend together sight seeing and then return to Kiev together on the train.  BTW, she speaks good to very good English.

All in all, I have gone from just stumbling around to a decent plan.  Not a perfect one, but a decent one.  So, for all the newbies to follow, great read and great food for thought.  Like I have said so many times in a quite a few posts, guys listen to the folks here.  You can learn a lot if you just read and post.  Yes, you may get told to pull your head out, but it is for you own good.  These guys and gals have no vested interest in what goes on here.  They do not make a dime.... they just care.  So, listen, post, learn.  Can they be a little tough (damn, someone beat me to it, Turbo!!!)?  Yeap, but they care.

Night guys.... t minus 11.5 hours.

[DKMM]

Dale,

Your post reminds me so much of my own thinking.  Its fun how girls pop up in nearby cities and you start changing your plans around a bit.  Good luck out there.