SCAM & DECEIT gets more refined - READ THIS PLEASE!!!

[William3rd]

Feed her to the Gator(s)!!!!

[ScottinCrimea]

Even if, as she implies, it was just an innocent childish mistake, it would be one of many.  I've already raised three teenage daughters and I'm working on a fourth.  Would I now want to marry one and have to deal with all of those childish mistakes all over again?  Heck No!

Find one who has already grown up, not one that you have to raise.

[Shadow]

Business might be slow this time of year.

[groovlstk]

FSURookie,

Many people here are telling you that her age had something to do with her behavior, and you're lapping it right up for the same reasons most people want to believe it. It's called "whistling past the graveyard."

First, I'd agree w/most that you were foolish to pursue a woman so young. Women your ex's age are often still in party mode. Even if you find a girl at 20 who is seriously looking for a husband, it can come back to bite you because she's not yet mature and her personality is going to change over the next few years. However, if she behaves like a prostitute at 20, she'll behave like a prostitute at 30 and 40, if it suits her purposes.

There are an unfortunately large number of FSU women who are like this, regardless of age. There are many reasons for it:

• Her culture and society doesn't roundly condemn it, indeed she'll be admired by her friends and perhaps even her family for being "clever."
• Many FSU women have an almost romantic attachment to betrayal - there's no worse sin than a boring life. Dig deeply enough in the history of your gf's family and friends and you'll find enough gothic drama to make Faulkner swoon.
• Last but not least, it's easy to fool foreign men who are dating out of their league (and that's not a knock against you, we all do it. Hell, I'm not ashamed to admit that my wife is so far out of my league that I may as well be one of those jets passing over Shea Stadium during Mets games.)

Whenever a relationship fails on this board, people are eager to hear the details so that they can quickly assign blame. "The age gap was too large" or "she missed home too much" or "you didn't share a common language." All of these are much more palatable to believe than the real answer: "she simply didn't love you."

You've endured a very difficult ordeal but as others have pointed out it would have been a million times worse if you married this girl. Your eyes are now wide open and you should proceed accordingly; don't rationalize your ex's behavior and think it won't happen again if you simply stick with women closer to your age.

Most importantly, never ever settle for a woman who isn't crazy about you. Ignore her words, use her actions to gauge her interest and commitment to you. People may dispute this, but I believe even the best scammer in the history of the FSU can't fool a guy who's thinking with his big head. The energy a woman gives off when she's falling in love is too intense to fake 24/7. I dated a lot of FSU women and believe it or not a few of them genuinely liked me and would have gladly accepted my marriage proposal. Yet when my wife fell for me it was like I was hit with a cattle prod. You become the center of her universe, her energy is focused on you, and it's something you can perceive even 5000 miles apart. Good luck, and never settle for anything less.

[WmGO]

Good post Groov!

[Hub]

Groov, great post.  You seem like one of the most clear headed and logical guys here.  However, I can't resist a comment.

The energy a woman gives off when she's falling in love is too intense to fake 24/7.  Yet when my wife fell for me it was like I was hit with a cattle prod. You become the center of her universe, her energy is focused on you, and it's something you can perceive even 5000 miles apart.

I spent quite a bit of time with two FSU women who fell into this category.  However, it got to be overwhelming and smothering.  And, in both cases, the women became hyper-jealous in nature and became paranoid about it.  So I haven't had much good luck with this cattle prod type of intense love.

No solutions, only questions.

[jb]

Hub, 

If you can't handle total love and devotion, and the attention that goes with it, then maybe you are fishing in the wrong pond.  Personally, I thrive on the fact that my wife pretty much dotes on me,,, that's her mission in life.

[Shadow]

jealousy is always a negative energy. It it came from lack of trust, ask yourself if you have given them reasons for it. Otherwise it can be a mirror effect of their own behaviour.

[Adrian]

perhaps a brief meeting with Maria six months from now, among meetings with  others, will reveal more about her and you. 

NO! NO! NO! Just forget about this SKANK! Do not harbour any ideas of meeting her or seeing her again.

The mistake you made is that you tried to MARRY a 19 year old. You wanna date them? Sure, have fun. But, don't marry one.

The age difference is not the problem, it is HER age that is the problem. If you were 45 and she was 25 for example, no issue. Same age difference. But, marrying a 19 year old? NO!  I wouldn't do that here, I would do it in the FSU.

[groovlstk]

Groov, great post.  You seem like one of the most clear headed and logical guys here.  However, I can't resist a comment.

I spent quite a bit of time with two FSU women who fell into this category.  However, it got to be overwhelming and smothering.  And, in both cases, the women became hyper-jealous in nature and became paranoid about it.  So I haven't had much good luck with this cattle prod type of intense love.

No solutions, only questions.

I dunno hub, I didn't mean to suggest my wife was a "type" of woman more intense than most; she simply fell for me and her feelings were reciprocated. We're coming up on a year since her arrival and those feelings have only grown stronger.

I'm no expert, but every Russian woman I dated was very, very high maintenance - except the ones who didn't care for me or had ulterior motives.

[Shadow]

But, marrying a 19 year old? NO!  I wouldn't do that here, I would do it in the FSU.

Funny mistake. Even for a troll. 

[Adrian]

The age difference is not the problem, it is HER age that is the problem. If you were 45 and she was 25 for example, no issue. Same age difference. But, marrying a 19 year old? NO!  I wouldn't do that here, I would do it in the FSU.

What I wanted to say was that, I wouldn't do it here and I wouldn't do it in the FSU either.

FSURookie, you are in pretty good shape, you have all your hair, there is no need for you to settle for a washed up 40 yr old divorcee with kids. If you wanted to that, you could stay in the US and save yourself a lot of time and expense.

Don't waste your time on 19 yr olds either. I would say, go for the girls in their mid to late 20s. Maybe around 23-28.

[FSUrookie]

Thanks Adrian..... I agree. The mid to upper 20's range is my target, and actually was my target before I met Maria (though caution should be used when dating ANY FSU woman, or any AMERICAN woman for that matter. I know of many friends that have gotten shafted by American-Women-Gold-Diggers too).
So, against objections I had in my own deep-down thoughts and from friends, I went out with Maria on the reccommendation of one of the few reputable agencies... Anyway, it has been a lesson learned by me... I will post the conclusion to my story with Maria soon. I think it has been informative for most people new to the FSU scene and it has been a wake-up call for me.... Live and Learn, don't worry be happy, make informed decisions, and the future will be what we make it.....
Ukraine, here I come.....again.....

[Adrian]

FSURookie,

What about women where you live? Have you been making an effort to approach them as well?

I would suggest not putting all your eggs in one basket.

Keep your options open and make an effort to date women in your city as well.

I am sure you will find many American women in their mid 20s interested in dating you.

[FSUrookie]

Hello to all....
Well today was my d-day letter to Maria.
We had a brief phone conversation on Thursday, in which she would answer "I have to think about it" to most of my comments and questions. She then started the conversation by stating "To continue our relations, I do not want to receive anymore money or gifts from you". And then she also asked; "Do you want all the money and gifts you gave me back?" Our conversation ended being very short due to poor international phone connections, and we made an appointment to talk on Sunday, of which the first time she postponed till later Sunday, and then later her phone was turned off. 4 weeks of trying to communicate by phone with Maria, and we have only spoken twice on the phone, as she has continued to play cat n mouse with me. Well, today I sent her the email to drive my points across one last time, and I asked for her to return the engagement ring and the money for the University that I gave her.... I await her reply......
In the meantime, I have begun my journey back to the dating scene thru the use of Bride.RU and preparing to run newspaper classified ads in Kharkov in November - December. I have learned that for many of us trying the FSU dating scene, focusing on a small number of women is not always the best way to go, especially considering the fact that the FSU dating scene has considerably tightened up in recent years. Getting to wrapped-up in one woman too soon is a sure formula for failure. Anyway, if not for this forum and the friends and connections that I have made from it, my conclusion could have been MUCH worse......
P.S. As for American women, the reason I ventured to Ukraine to look for a possible future wife was to get away from the "materialistic" women of America. Of course there are good and bad women everywhere in the world, and even though the FSU is not as lucrative a dating scene as in previous years, there appears to be more genuine women there than in the USA. My problem was, I spent alot of resources and energy looking in the wrong places and using the wrong methods.....
Life goes on......

[FSUrookie]

Hello to all!
Again, I want to thank all of you for your input and help.
Well, I thought today this would be my post to end this thread, and perhaps it will help bring it to conclusion in any case. I wrote Maria an email letter intended to bring our relations to a close. Below you can read my strongly-worded letter and Maria's reply.
I really don't know what to say about the letter from Maria below?
In all my years of seeing scams, manipulation, craziness, lies,
gold-diggers, deceit, etc etc, I have never seen a letter like the one below.
Perhaps she is good and trying to play on my emotions?
(I hear this is quite common in the FSU for women to reverse their wrongs and make the man feel like he actually did the wrong).
I did want Maria to realize the damage that she did here, and the hurt she
caused, But I don't want something (crazy) to happen to her on my account.
I must say, I have never been in a relationship such as this one with Maria.
Anyway, any feedback is appreciated.....
Best Regards to all.....

My Letter:
----- Original Message -----
From: John
To: "Ryzhkova Masha"
Cc: "Alyona" <ashonahim@yandex.ru>
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 11:24 AM
Subject: YOU DISAPPOINT ME!!!

Masha,

I am very very disappointed with you. We schedule many times to talk on the
phone, and you do not answer your phone. This is very rude! Why do you
continue to do this to me? And you never apologize for anything or show any
remorse for what you have done to me!
One day I hope you realize the error of your ways. You saw in person that I
was a good man, and you know that I would have loved you forever and made
you happy! Yet, you threw this all away for what? Was our relationship all
just a lie? Surely you are not ready for marriage and beginning a family. I
hope that you do not hurt other men as you have done to me!
Now I must say, I am demanding that you return the engagement ring, and the
money that I gave you for the University ($3000), at once!!! Or, I will be
forced to take further action!!
You now disrespect me, after you have been unfaithful and dishonest to me!
I am tired of playing games with you!!!
Please give me back my money that I gave you and the engagement ring at
once!!!
This whole relationship was a lie! If you truly loved me you would have
never of broken our relations in the first place on August 24, 2007! And,
you send me the email letter on August 24 with little remorse to me! It was
a very cold and heartless letter, with no consideration of my feelings, and
you never asked for my opinions! You are a phony Maria! Look at yourself in
the mirror and think about what you did to me! The pain that you have caused
me is great!
To make matters worse, you call a newspaper ad in June to meet a foreign
(American) man Kim. You say that this was for a friend, but I am surprised
that a smart but shy Masha would do such a thing. And then you say that you
told no one that you were calling and meeting this man. What if this
"stranger" foreigner was mean or a bad person and something happened to you
Masha? Who would know? Your decision in this matter was not very
intelligent, and it showed a lack of trust from you, because surely if you
believed in me and trusted me, you would have told me about this Kim before
the date happened.
Also, when I think about our time together, I realized that in all of our
meetings in Kharkov and Sevastopol, you never once said "I LOVE YOU" to me
in person! Perhaps you never did love me? Well now, you owe me many
apologies!
I was also surprised that you never were happy that I suggested to move to
Germany and Europe to be with you. Surely, if you had loved me you would
have been happy and mentioned this to me. But you did not even acknowledge
my suggestion to move to Europe!
You know, the engagement ring that I gave you was a symbol of our love,
commitment and promise to be married to each other. You broke that promise
when you decided to break our relations on August 24, 2007! If you truly
loved me then we would
have stayed together, and you would have asked for my input and had a
discussion with me before you decided to end our relations and leave me! An
engagement is a promise to be married, and YOU broke that promise!
Surely you know that any relationship and marriage is based on Trust,
Understanding, Honesty, Love, and Respect!
Now, I can no longer trust or respect you!
I want to say again; Do your realize how much you hurt me Maria? And how
much you hurt my family?
When we became engaged to be married, I told this
announcement of good news to all my family and friends as this was this
biggest announcement of my life. You really hurt me Maria. I hope your
realize the results of your actions and the damage that has been caused and
the pain and sadness that you brought into my life with your lies and broken
promises to me. You took 10 months of my life from me! You took my money and
you made a false promise to marry me and never leave me!
You are nothing but a liar, and I am sad that you turned out to be such a
bad person. This whole thing was bad nightmare for me, and I don't even know
who you are anymore! Shame on you for what you did. You are a hurtful
person, and I must now pretend as if you never existed!
Do you have any remorse or regret about what you have done?
I know one day that I will find a good woman to be my wife. Surely, that
woman is NOT you, I can see this fact now!
Well, soon, if you do not return my ring and money, I will be forced to take
further action, and I will let all my friends in Kharkov know what you did
to me! All of your lies and broken promises!
I WANT MY RING AND MONEY RETURNED TO ME NOW!!!!!
Maria, I give you this opportunity now to give apologies to me, and to
return the engagement ring and my money, and then maybe we can make peace
with each other and move on separately with our lives.
I hope you realize the damage that you have done to my life!!!
May God bring peace to our lives, and may I forgive you for what you have
done to me.

John :-(

P.S. Please contact me to arrange returning my ring and money.
*********************************************************
Maria's reply today:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryzhkova Masha"
To: John
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 9:32 AM
Subject: [Bulk] I appologize!
Hi John!
I am really so sorry that I hurted you! But you must know one thing that I not only hurted you, I hurted myself much more! I cry every night,I am much more disappointed than you!
You even cant imagine how badly I feel, every morning when I wake up I feel pain inside!Its terrible! I ve never been with you for money or smth. I enjoyed time that we shared! It was great! And I am so thankful to you for everything! I am sure I can never find such a great person like you - you are kind,you have big heart,and you are responsible! If you want that I ll return money back,its ok! Because I was never with you for money! But you must know that my situation now is very difficult! I study at the university now, so I cant work! If you want I ll try to find work at evening shift, that I ll have a possibility to give u money back! But the thing is that nobody helps me, and nobody gives money to my small brother,the only person is I, so I have to help him. Because my mother tries to save money for going to Germany!
 You even cant imagine how deeply you hurted me with this e-mail! I would never wait that you can be such!

I am shocked!

I want to appologize that I couldnt talk to you! I am sick now,and I am sure one of the reasons that I am sick is because I worry too much!

I understand your feelings! I stay on the knees in front of you! Please FORGIVE ME! Best Johnnie!

And the reason why I didnt tell you that I met with Kim, was because I wasnt sure that you can understand it. I was afraid that you would be mad at me! I am really sorry,I didnt want to hurt you! And of course I was afraid to meet him,but he was with the interpreter, so I thought that I should help my friend. This was the only reason!

John I dont know what is happening with me! I am so lost you cant even imagine! I AM SO SORRY! PLEASE FORGIVE ME! PLEASE UNDERSTAND I AM IN SO BAD CONDITION THAT I EVEN DONT WANT TO LIVE ANYMORE, SO IF SOMETHING LL HAPPEND TO ME BECAUSE OF SITUATION WITH YOU....

Maria

[ScottinCrimea]

She seems to have learned very well at a young age how to play on your emotions and turn things around to make you feel guilty.  It's amazing how their feelings can suddenly turn so sharply around when it is they who have something to lose. Right now she is trying to find a way out of returning the money by playing on your sympathies.  Remember that she did fine before you came on the scene and will do fine when you leave.  She's not your responsibility, though I know it's tough sometimes to get the white knight syndrome out of your head.  I'm sure she is already in the process of finding someone else to take your place as her financial savior. I did notice that she mentioned nothing about returning the ring, which should be a rather simple process.

You definitely dodged a bullet here.  Imagine dealing with her for the rest of your life! (or at least for two years until she got her green card)

[Jazzyclassy]

That is a cheap blackmail , never trust her she is crule horrible little s--t

how can you even write her back telling her all those things which hurt you , she will never understand and will never appologise , she is typical scammer and user and was brought up in an awful disrespectful way , only using people and wanting to fulfil her aims by the cost of somebody.

She is giving such a silly unbelievable reasons why she can not give you money , that is just sad how she manipulates you

I work and study and I pay for my University myself and never ever asked money for my University from my wonderful boy

Just forget about her and try to destroy her ghost in  your heart , leave that time you spent with her , move on , urgently otherwise she will just brainwash your naive head and you will be back running to her with another 3000 $....... very sad story

[Shadow]

Probably this is the last you will ever hear of her, leaving you in doubt about her fate.
If you want to know it, just check the agencies profiles every now and then for changes.  

I know it is hard to let go when you have built your dreams upon a woman, but it is what you need to do.
She wrote a letter to tell you it is over, and we are nearly one month further.
Let go, remember what good times you had and let the bad things fade in memory.

Only when you can get yourself to stop thinking of her and what she did, you will be able to trust a new woman when writing. Remember that you are jaded and it will take some time not to look at anything you do not like as a red flag. Use this as a positive, by not making the next person you visit your wife (inside your mind) before even meeting her.
December will be a good time, but maybe a little soon. On the other hand a woman that will love you might let you forget this incident at once.

[Jazzyclassy]

Plus another interesting fact , on all those pictures she is having rather nice clothing and bags and all covered in make up , for these things she has money and for University she has not? yeah sure , she is horrible without conscious person, do not mention any remorse to her , she does not know what it is......

believe me I know such girls we got plenty of them everywhere in the world and they know that americans are the best victims of such  dirty tricks they play in order to get money and praise from their the same friends - oh how come you managed to make him give you 3000 and such a great ring- these girls are just not serious and would hardly be ready for any family to create.

[HiTech]

Jazzy:

dirty tricks they play in order to get money and praise from their the same friends

I believe you stated it exactly. They view the fun of showing their materialistic things to their friends and other people  as something that is very important.

[FSUrookie]

I really want to say "thanks" to everyone who posted in this thread, and also to those who I spoke to off-board and on the phone. Your input has been a big help to me, it really has. You know, I don't pretend to have all the answers, and I am not too proud to admit when I am wrong. And as you can see from reading this whole thread from start to finish, much of my emotions and guts have been spilled on this board, minus a few tears. I really believe that no matter our age, we can all learn something from other good friends and their experiences. I think my parents raised me well, however, like many people though my parents raised me to be cautious in life, I was also raised to be a personable and trusting person. You know the saying; "Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me".
When you think about Maria's last statement; "I AM IN SO BAD CONDITION THAT I EVEN DONT WANT TO LIVE ANYMORE, SO IF SOMETHING LL HAPPEND TO ME BECAUSE OF SITUATION WITH YOU...." It really makes you think twice about the whole FSU scene.
I mean, this letter that Maria wrote me today is not sad, but it borders on "SICK"!
Are all these women in Ukraine that play this game actually that sick to imply that they would kill themselves to get sympathy from the man?
This is not SAD, it is "SICK"!
On the other hand, there are many good woman in Ukraine, and other countries.
For those who have been in my shoes, so to speak, you know what a crappy feeling this is.....
And Yes Scott, I DID dodge a bullet here for sure.....
.....I know I can and will find a good and decent woman to be my wife one day. It is just really sad that this type of woman fluorishes anywhere in the world, just as it is sad that there are men as sex tourists claiming to be looking for their future wife.
Are our world societies becoming one in which people only seek to use others for gain???????
I hope not.......

[ScottinCrimea]

I think we all appreciate your willingness to open up and share this experience with others in the hope that it will help someone.  It's that type of comraderie that gives this board its value.  We all make mistakes here and if we can share these we can hopefully help someone else to avoid the same mistakes.  Even if we do everything right, things can still go bad, though, and any insights into potential pitfalls is very valuable.  thanks for this great contribution to the board.

[BillyB]

FSUrookie,

 I think you showed too much emotion in your d-day letter to your former fiancee. Many older FSU women would have read that and would've been thankful the relationship ended with such an emotional and demanding person. Demanding as in demanding your gifts back.

If you want to see the ugly side of a person, watch how they react during a breakup of a relationship. You did a lot better than most people but there are ways to make your ex regret the breakup if you conduct yourself to be a gentleman at all times. They will regret what they lost, a person of high integrity and character.

At the most you should write if she wasn't serious or had doubts with the relationship, she should, as an honorable person would do, return any items given that were based on the fact there was a sincere and real relationship.  Saying that will shame her. Obviously when you got dumped earlier with a cold and heartless letter, when she decided to go to Germany, she did not offer to return the ring or money you gave her. I doubt she'll come through now as she says she would. Heck, she's not even available during regularly scheduled phone calls. You're the one that got shafted yet you still keep your word to call when you say you're going to call.

I don't believe she should be classified as professional scammer or even a novice scammer but she is a person that looks out for #1 even if she has to step on people and/or hurt their feelings. I'm sure if she wanted more money out of you, she could have done it.

As of now, you're her best option over going to Germany with her mom and over any other man she dating during her engagement to you and now she's about to lose you. Now she cries every night. Sad story, a tear runs down my cheek.  

John, find a woman that will give you as much as you give her. You're a giver and you need the same in a woman.

[SANDRO43]

Perhaps she is good and trying to play on my emotions?

Very accomplished, for her age .

...Anyway, any feedback is appreciated.....

Forget her (and your money), put a cork in it and move on .