SCAM & DECEIT gets more refined - READ THIS PLEASE!!!

[mspanky]

FSURookie,

 This story is a LIE!!  Maybe it's just my bad luck . But I was corresponsding with a girl once. She told me she was somwhow supposed to get a VISA to Canada. It was a work VISA. Anyway,something about her I did'nt trust. Never met her yet, but One night I called her very late and her mother asid she was'nt home.

   With some prompting I found out she had been out with another American. Now this was an obvious lie and this is what she told me. Somehow one of her friends used her picture on Friendster.com or something like that and pretended it was her. So she was getting many people to correspond. Her friend had an American guy coming to visit and for some reason wanted to perpetuate the lie still. So according to the girl I was corresponding with, her frind begged her to go out with this guy since he travelled so far to see her(such good hearted gals they are). Then her friend would go along on one of the dates and hopefully the guy would fall for the friend.

 The story was so ridiculous it's a shame they thought I was stupid enough to believe it. Too many great women out there to put up with someone who's really "not that into you".

[Jazzyclassy]

Exactly if it was not lie it would not be so crooked, the truth is usually simple

I am in shock that people still believe such girls and try to justify them , no matter the age, she is the user and as I already told we have millions of girls like that, it is just the men are not looking deep to find a proper one,  they do it in a superficial way ....get burnt and continue  step into the same water over and over again, till they are bankrupt and can not afford to go to Russia anymore, sad isn't it

I think he needs just to move on complitely and stop believing her poems she has never written , if she uses promt to translate things, that is even worse how it is actually easy to charm some western guy , just having huge boobs and quite pretty eyes , that is what you need ........ I find this story more sad than instractive and ever informative.

[FSUrookie]

Hello again to all!
I think what has developed in this forum thread is a story with many angles, some very obvious, and some not so obvious...
Of course, I will be sure to use the suggestions of the many posters on this board along with the factual realities that have stemmed from my experience with Maria, to be more educated and wiser in moving forward in the FSU dating scene.
Does this mean that I will never again make a mistake? Of course not.
From the comments that I have read here and those that I have received via PM and email off-board, this story IS making others take a second look at many aspects of the FSU dating scene, and this is a good thing.
In addition, none of us alone have all the correct answers, but all of us together have given everyone who enters the FSU dating scene a great armor of information to be better prepared upon beginning our endeavours.
Will all heed the warnings? Of course not, but many will now use greater caution as a result of the realities presented in this forum thread and others here at RWD. And this is a good thing.
Will this forum thread change the human weaknesses that many of us may have in using better judgement? No.
Many of us will be more aware, but many of us will also continue to fight for the ones we love, whether our decision to do so is the right one or not....
So, the best we can hope for is, as we become more educated as a result of the information presented here at RWD, that we minimize our mistakes in choosing the correct path in finding our FSU sweetheart.
It was never my intention for this thread to be the judge & jury on the guilt or innocence of my former fiancee Maria, but to raise awareness of mistakes that were made on my part perhaps, and the methods & errors in judgment that were used by both me and Maria which led to the sad conclusion of this story.....
With that, thanks to all for make this thread a more meaningful and educational one.....
Now, as I have promised from the beginning of this thread, I will continue to present all the facts and information that I have, so as to give the complete picture of this story, not to make this a thread about a weeping man drowning in his tears.....

Additonal information: What I saw in the beginning of my story.
Our first introduction letters (From and to Maria) were written in November 2006 and here they are.... (Remember that after our first meeting in December 2006, the agency was out of the loop).

Hi Maria,  (November 23, 2006)
 I hope my letter finds you with much happiness and joy! My name is John, I
am 41 years old, single, never married, with no children, and I live in the
Chicago - Illinois U.S.A. area. I am trying this matchmaking agency in hopes
of finding my future wife and beginning a strong family. I read your profile
information here on the agency web site, and you really sound like a very
nice and interesting person!

As for me; My friends describe me as a kind, warm-hearted and modest person.
I am interested in theatre, cinema, nature, sports, fitness and love cats (I
have one cat). I currently work in the field of education as a technology
technician (computers, photography, etc.) and a teacher. I love working with
the children, and my career field is a very rewarding and enjoyable job. I
will add that; I do not smoke and I seldom drink, only on special occasions.
My job is a good job and is well paid.

 In regard to the subject of marriage, I feel that it requires a big
commitment, and it is for life. My parents have been married for 41 years
now, and I want the same life-long marriage in my life too. To me, a
successful and happy marriage requires much love and hard work. There must
be understanding and faithfulness by both husband and wife. It requires
honesty and trust, and much compassion and kind-heartedness. Marriage is a
partnership that requires sincere effort by both husband and wife. I am
ready to make this commitment in my life. For me my future is now, and I
want to make a happy family. Are you ready? Or are you just being curious?
Please be honest, as I do not wish to waste time writing only as Pen Pals.
What are your expectations? How soon would you like to start a family? Are
you willing to move to my country (U.S.A.) to start a family? I also would
appreciate it if you would answer all of my questions, and that you answer
them specifically. I will do the same for your questions too.

 If you are serious and interested in knowing more about me, please write me
back here anytime. I would appreciate your honesty, so if you do not wish to
explore the possibility of a relationship and possible marriage, please let
me know in the beginning. I can tell you that my intentions are very
serious, and I do not play games. I would also love to hear more about you
and your interests as well.

Maria, If you decide to that you would like to pursue the possibility of a
serious relationship and marriage with me, I feel it will be important for
us to meet together in person, so that we may further learn more about each
other. I will be traveling to Kharkov from December 28, 2006 to January 4,
2007, so I will be able to meet with you during these dates if your wish. I
await your answer.

I look forward to your return letter.

Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,

John
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Dear John, (November 30, 2006)
I was very glad to receive a letter from such an interesting
man like you. I think that our characters are similar in
many ways, as I absolutely agree with you in regard to the
marriage. The most important is mutual understanding between
two people. Understanding and supporting each other is the
basement for a long term relationship. I'm registered with
this agency not because of curiosity, I really would like to
meet a man for serious long term relationship, so do not
think, please you are wasting your time. After we meet, we
will be able to get to know each other even better and see
whether serious relationship are possible, you can't really
say whether it is possible or not, judging by letters.
As for your questions, I will answer them with pleasure.
My family and building our future takes the first place in
my life. My beloved one is the most important. Despite my
age I'm very serious about this. I would start a family as
soon as I meet beloved one, the one and only :-) I'm ready
to move to another country, but it would be necessary to
visit Ukraine, my homeland.
John, I'm glad that you are serious man who doesn't play
games, for me it means that I can take your words seriously
and believe you.
A few words about myself, I work as a manager in Electrolux
company and my work is mostly communicating with people.
While I have no family, I devote my time to my work, meeting
friends, spending time with my parents. I've been having
English lessons since November and while my knowledge us not
big I already have gain an understanding of the language
structure.
John, I guess some personal questions we will be able to ask
at the meeting, so far I have a few questions. Have you been
to Ukraine before? Do you need to be told about our culture,
traditions, women and how we picture relationship? Do you
speak any Russian? Are you afraid of building an
international family?
I will look forward to hearing from you,
With respect,

Maria

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

DETAILS of our first meeting (10 days) together in Kharkov.
It is NOT all-inclusive, but to give everyone an idea of how our dating kicked-off.
Our first meeting (Day 1): We meet in front of the "wedding palace" and then eat at an ordinary restaurant (nothing fancy).
Maria appear to have much warmth, but is a bit nervous and shy.
We use my laptop computer, but Maria is a bit frustrated because
of using the laptop to translate, and her English was VERY basic.

Next Day (Day 2): Our second meeting (at a very nice and a bit pricey restaurant)
We meet at "DaVinci" (the place I would eventually propose to her at in April 2007).
There 2 of her English-speaking friends are present.
Marina (her best friend) the one who was dating this guy with her from Dubai, while she was still married, though I did notknow this at the time, and as I just mentioned, her boyfriend Ricardo from Dubai.
This is my first time meeting her best friend and her best friend's boyfriend.
We have a nice meal, and Marina and Ricard had already ate. We take our first pictures and my feeling about Maria is good but very preliminary at this point.
The bill arrives and it has everyones meals on it, even Marina and Ricardo who had just eaten before me and Maria had arrived. Contrary to what many of the "cheapsters" may suggest, I pay the whole bill as a nice gesture, because this is her best friend and I want to make a good first impression.

Day 3 we meet at Sushi restaurant with her best friend Marina & Ricardo. I pay for half the bill only (for what me & Maria ate) After, we go to the disco in town as well, which was pretty good. I see here that Maria is very very shy though she was a good dancer. Marina pays for entance tickets to Disco for all 4 of us, since I paid for our first meeting at DaVinci (Trying to hold my ground here). We also walk the town of Kharkov a bit and search for a place that still has openings for New Year's Eve reservations.... We find and agree upon a new place (above Sushi restaurant at Metro Puchinskia or something close to that name) and Marina informs me that it is $150 per person. (At that time I thought this was a bit pricey for Ukraine party, but I played along) We all agreed on this place so we made a reservation...

Day 4 (New Year's Eve): We all have a good time and call it a night at 2:30 AM.
During this night, I have many discussions about Maria, about me with this guy Ricardo (Marina's boyfriend) - who at this point is drunk - I am sober and not drinking.
He tells me that Maria is very interested in me, and that for a Ukraine girl to "land" a white American who is strong (in shape / muscular) and is good guy, that this is a big deal for Maria. As he gets more drunk, he (Ricardo) says that I must tell you something, because you will be like a brother to me if you marry Maria, I must be honest with you, and I have no reason to lie to you, but he tells me that; Maria was very offended that I did not pay for the entire bill (for all 4 of us at the Sushi restaurant - we went dutch), and that Maria was VERY upset about this, and she was so upset that she was not going to come to the New Year's Eve party.
He said that she was also very upset that I did not pay for tickets for the whole table (All 4 of us) for New Year's Eve party, and for Disco tickets. He also said Maria did not understand why I did not have a translator for our first date (because of the holidays, there was no translator available for our first date - she asked am i not good enough for him for me to have a translator?, ..but we managed using my laptop). He said that it is BIG for woman in Ukraine to show off her boyfriend (that spends money apparently). After hearing his words, I was very close to thinking and taking action that this would be me and Maria's LAST date.... After an off day, we met again 2 days later at "DaVinci". At this point I sensed some "materialism" and "show-offism" in Maria, but not a scam.
Anyway, the week went on, and we went to many differnet restaurants, some fancy some average, but for sure "DaVinci" and Cafe Paris many times.

At the end of our week, we met one last day at DaVinci, and this is where I suggested that for our relations to continue, that Maria needed to learn better English. So I agreed for her to have private and group lessons, and I gave her $400 to cover costs from January to April.

2nd meeting in April 2007: after many email letters and SMS messages and our first meeting in December-January, I am sure that me and Maria are a good match. I go into this week with the intention of asking Maria to commit to engagement to further solidify (so I thought) our relationship. Well, her best friend agreed that this week was a good time to ask Maria to marry, and that Maria was very sure about me. So we shopped for a ring, and her best friend met with me to size and shop for the engagement ring (that you see in the picture posted in this thread). Well, here is a good opportunity for her friend to jam and scam me on this ring. I came on this trip figuring to spend $1000 or $2000 on this ring. Well, I was very surprised as to what happened next. We went to the best jewelery store in Kharkov and we bought the lost expensive (non-diamond - cubic zirconia) 14K gold ring they had - about $200!!! I was actually embarrassed to spend so little. Her best friend Marina said that the "diamond" ring was typically purchased for the marriage ring, and I went along with her advice.

The next day, I proposed to Maria, and she loved (adored) the ring!
At the end of this week, is when the subject of Maria attending the best University in town. After Marina and her went to this University (Karazan? not sure of spelling), they told me that for Maria to finish 2 years of needed school for her bachelor's degree in Business Economics in 1 year, she would need to pay a $1000 bribe to get in and do this, so she could finish in 2008 and then come to America to live with me. Marina told me that each year would cost $1500, which made the total $4000 for the whole deal. A bargain compared to what it would cost for Maria to start all over in the USA. I also found out that because this was a prominent University, that Maria could take a few course here and transfer the degree. I thought this makes her happy, me happy and I save $40,000 in the process! So I agreed to pay this over the coming months (not all at once). Maria said this was a lot of money for me to pay, and that she would work to help pay the costs. I told her no, that I wanted her to focus on her English classes and University studies so that she could come to America (and process K-1 VISA) in 2008. I had earlier (in March) told Maria I would pay her monthly expenses / salary and for her to quit her $400 a month job, so as to insure that she could come to America sooner.
During our meeting in April, I met her mother and brother, and we ate at Pushka and the meeting went well and her mom really liked me (according to Maria and Marina). Her younger brother was really cool and took a liking to me.
Anyway.....
I want to also point out that during all our meetings, I never bought Maria any fancy dresses or jewelry. During our April meeting, the day me and Marina (Maria's best friend) met to buy the engagement ring, we talked about many things, and during our conversation Marina asked me what Ricardo and I talked about on New Year's Eve. I told her some of what RIcardo had told me, and she said that it was not true, that Maria was not mad that I did not pay the whole bill (at the January meetings), and I told her that my goal here was that I wanted Maria to like me for what is inside my heart, not for my money. As we finished, it was kinda funny, Marina for the first time got our her checkbook to pay the bill, and I said no to her, because she had helped to translate most of my meetings with Maria. But, after that day, Maria and Marina no longer wanted to eat at DaVinci and the other fancy restaurants that we had been eating at. So I put my foot down and it worked! So I thought. From that day forward, we ate often at a very nice, with good food, but VERY reasonably priced Italian restaurant called "Adriano", where me and Marina were at for this meeting.
To continue.....
Everything was going according to plan, so at least I felt it was.
Then over May thru July, we wrote many letters and SMS messages, and planned our next meeting for August. At first we were going to meet in Kharkov with her friends, including Alona and Marina, but then Maria asked me if it was ok for us to meet in Kiev or Crimea for a week, and I thought this would be good to have our first real vacation together alone, and I agreed. As you know, the vacation in Sevastopol went well, thought it was cut short due to theillness of Maria's grandmother, and her mother's constant calls to get Maria back home and be by her side.....
Anyway, most of the rest of the story is in this thread.....
As I will leave to those reading this to form their own opinions....

Other thoughts: I have learned that for many women in Ukraine, the concept of "Engagement" does not have the same meaning for them as it does for American men. Perhaps that also played a part in this story?

For me, I felt the relationship, though not perfect, was planned decently at the time, and my main regret is that I chose a 19 year old, when I should have dated older.....

So, in the end, is what we have hear an immature 19 year old that was indecisive and shy, and in the beginning liked to show off her American man and fancy restaurants (and his money maybe), and living in a fairytail? Or was this really a manipulative girl using men, with her bad influences of her best friend Marina and her mom pushing her in the wrong direction?
No matter what truth really is, I have learned from this, and I hope others have gained from it as well....
HAPPY LABOR DAY!

[Shadow]

FSURookie, now it is my time to be harsh with you.

1. Your introduction letter is babbling about yourself. It shows no reason as to why you would be interested in HER. Maybe one that you send to all women ? It will not catch interest a lot.

2. Her letter is not written by her. It is written by an agency. Job: manager ?? A 19 year old girl that still has to go to University is a manager ?

3. She took you to all the most expensive places she could find. Marina's boyfriend tells she is upset with you for not paying everything. Guess that it is ok for Marina that her boyfriend does not have to pay for anything. 

4. You paid her $100 a month for support, $1000 for the 'bribe' that is only needed if she has very low grades, and $1500 per year.
For a girl who lives with her parents a great support. Oh and by the way, you pay her this money for university and then she decides to move with her mother to Germany. Any ideas why after landing this deal she was 'careful' with the restaurants ?

They found a way for you to support Maria for two years, so they needed to protect the investment.

While I tend to be protective of the women, the more you tell to 'justify', the more it shows her scheming and your mistakes.
Still my main advise rests. Take some time off, leave all this behind you, wish her returns of what she did to others, and find a woman that loves you, not your money or your country.

[FSUrookie]

Hey Shadow, thanks for the points, but no need to be harsh with me, I already know that "I" screwed up... As I have said over and over and over...... We may never know the whole truth, but perhaps out of this whole thing I can help to save another newbie or veteran FSU dater from some grief. Simply, I am trying to state everything I know about this story... And then hopefully others will read and learn and be more educated and incorporate correction into their plan of attack... So, with that said, this forum thread is not about critisizing me, but of course everyone is free to do so, BUT this IS about pointing out the mistakes that I made and that she made, so as to be helpful to another man making the journey to a FSU country to find a wife.....
With that I have to correct a few things you mentioned...
1) Point well taken on your intro letter. However, her agency profile was very brief, thus not a lot to comment on concerning her, but I always try to state what I am looking for in a woman. I haven;t used that letter in over a year, but I always appreciate a 3rd person's point of view and comments.
2) All my sources said that she had a good job. But when we met, shortly thereafter she changed jobs, and she frequently received calls from former co-workers when we dated. But no, I can not verify at the moment if she had that specific manager job, but she was pretty smart and appears older in age in person, so it would not surprise me if she had this job. But, moot point because I asked her to quit her employment to focus in English lessons and University studies.
3) I AGREE WITH YOU 100% - This was a matter of concern for me. And as I mentioned above, I did address the expensive restaurant issue when I was in Kharkov. ( I guess she wanted to show off her rich American boyfriend - maybe this was cool for her as a 19 year old?) Point to note: I am not nor did I ever portray myself as a "rich" American to Maria. When we hashed things out, I was clear to explain to her that most Americans were "middle class" and that we worked hard for our money, and that the money is not falling off the trees as is commonly misconcieved in Ukraine about American men travelling there..... Of course we know that there are rich men that do go to FSU countries for women......
4) Yes, I gave her this money. Not sure if the "bribe" was used as you say, but in the end I only gave her $3000 total, so she never really gotthe bribe money from me. AND, no they changed restaurant venues BEFORE I gave her the $3000 for University classes. And, NO she is staying in Kharkov to finish her classes in 2008 and then they plan to move to Germany.

I know it is easy to bash, but let's keep the facts straight.

Anyway, I am not here to justify, but I am just trying to present the whole story as factually as possible, and then I am willing to take criticisms....
Thats the point, I know I am part at fault in this, but it is also important to point out where Maria was conniving or possibly being slick, so that others can see these flags / mistakes in their own quest for FSU women...
Thanks again Shadow and others for your input... Wether we agree or not.... That's what makes this RWD work....
And then, yes, it is time to move forward......

[neo]

FSURookie.

I'll help you out with your quest for truth.

The Resteraunt, Ricardo and Marina was the set up, they put you in a position where you don't want to look "cheap" and ruin your young ladies impression of you.

The 150 buck a pop new year tickets are the test to see how far you are prepred to go in your genorosity.

The love and kisses urgent romance is to set you up for the expedited university degree costs.

the cubic zirconia ring is to put you at your ease that shes a frugal girl who doesnt waste your money.

You telling her to quit her job and concentrate her time on her studies and "you'll take care of her" is the signal they have their "knight in shining armour" mark

and the 3000 bucks course fees "but i'll help pay for them offer but not really" is the drop.

Fact is, you were scammed, drawn and quartered in a classic set up by the girl, her accomplice the male "firend" who helps advise you on "How to impress the girl, he knows the secret" and the opposing mother to fool you into thinking your predator is a victim in distress.

FSURookie,

Your little princess was the star performer in thiis little charade and she was ably assisted by her supporting cast - you need to open your eyes for a minute and stop with this "maria is innocent BS" because thats the smoke the wizard blows to cover their vanishing act.

They are all as guilty as hell, they all played their part in taking you for a ride, your colours were nailed to the mast the minute you dealt them an open hand in your first letter as the sort of naive heart on his sleeve shining knight in armour guy all scammers are so adept at playing.

Every scenario you highlighted sshows them unravelling their scam and luring their victim into the carefulyl crafted trap, they are finding out what you will drop money and wont drop money on, and the artful craft was using your own thrift against you - your peception that giving the girl 4000 bucks for her education would save you 40 is the turn of the knife so you don't actually realise in all your attempt not to blow money on her for expensive clothes or other such party girl things shes actually touched you for 3000 grand in cold hard cash, i have to say, its fine saying you didn't fall for the buying her expensive gifts line but you really did tie your own noose with the quit your job and ill pay your education decision.

You have to face facts Rookie, this girl ain't no sunday school newbie, shes clearly got skills, her friends clearly have skills and you were the unwitting victim in a carefully crafted fraud that has netted her and her partners the equivelent of a years wages.

Now imagine shes got 3 or 4 other guys on the same scam and shes making 12,000 bucks for what???

I can end this little learning experiment wtih one sentence

"dont pay and they wont play"

[Mir]

Dear FSU-R

As others have said, you have been had, and thats how it is.

The only question is, did you have a piece of her in the process? I hope you did and I hope it was worth some of the money spent.

[tim 360]

FSUrookie,  Da Nile ain't only in Egypt.  Just put all this behind you as a learning experience and admit that you got scammed and don't make the same mistake again.  Denial will prohibit you from coming to terms and sorting it all out.  Plain and simple you were conned.  Luckily it was a short con, a small con, 3K.  Could have been worse for you.  There are guys who have been conned for much more than that and it came with alot more pain.  They lived the long con.  Just get over it.  Its just a flesh wound.

Y'see there is a plethora of guys ready, willing and able to be conned by a pretty face and for just a mediocre con operator its like picking apples off a tree.  Money in the bank...ka..ching.  Its a cottage industry.

If you dispassionately rerun the show you'll see that you were a willing volunteer who was selected, felt up and stroked up and down and they found your weaknesses, made you feel comfortable and exploited you.  Resulting in your magnanimous gesture of funding.  A little foreign aid to a poor little Kharkov girl.  Who would get by just fine without your large donation.  

Simple: Don't feed the bears, they are clever and they are hungry.  And guys?  When it comes to chicks....eh--good judgement can be clouded.

And Neo is right on the money.  A very sharp tack there.  A clever girl can have a string of guys paying her regular and when one guy might get wise and balk; she just looks at the long line of eager foreign guys and says, "Next".  

What do you think happens next?  Doubtless, there will be another ready, willing, and able sucker to lull and con.  Surely you know PT Barnums adage?  

[FSUrookie]

Thanks for the input tim360 and neo and others...
So, with all that said.... How does one approach the "money" issue correctly...
There are a lot of guys on here that say;
DONT SPEND ANY MONEY ON YOUR FSU GIRL!
Ok, let's be fair with this.....
WHAT IS THE LINE IN THE SAND?
What are acceptable things to spend money on an FSU woman?
Surely, no one expects to land even a mediocre girl without spending a dime?
So, everyone, please, tell me, WHEN and WHERE and HOW is it acceptable to spend money on an FSU woman?
Surely, from the advice here, one can minimize the risk, bit one can never totaly eliminate it.....
I am curious to know, when and what it is a good idea to spend money on your FSU woman? After marriage? After engagement? After What?

[Mir]

If you feel comfortable in a relationship, are enjoying it and trust the woman then spend money on her. Spend money that does not mean much to you, don't break the bank to impress her. Take it like a high risk investment like putting money in stock market in Tanzania, so put in the amount you can easily afford to lose.
If it turns out to be a scam, well it was bad luck, learn from it and move on, don't regret loosing the money that should be an amount you can write off as bad investment.
After marriage? Well then she is a partner in your life and what is yours is hers

[Gator]

I agree 100% with Mir.  Others will say that she was doing fine before you and does not need your money.  A young woman living with her parents without children is in that category.  There are single moms, however, who are having a difficult life. 

Even with the latter, start with a small amount of money and build up as appropriate.  Do not set up a monthly stipend unless children are malnourished.  Instead, take care of non-routine expenses such as dentistry, new shoes for the child for the school year, summer camp for the child, family celebration if you can not be there,  etc.  Only you can decide the amount.

A scam is not the only reason that you may never see your money again.  As you spend time together you may discover that the two of you are not compatible.  For example, she expresses little gratitude about what you give her and instead demands more and more.  You imagine how that would accelerate after marriage and say paka.

Some men say that FSUW use demands for money to test whether you are generous or greedy.  Do not fall for that crap.  The sincere RW I met hate to ask for money - they have a lot of pride and asking for money makes them feel like a beggar.  And when you do volunteer to help them, they will adore and appreciate even a modest amount. 

All of this shows why it is important to take your time and not rush into anything.

 

[acrzybear]

If you feel comfortable in a relationship, are enjoying it and trust the woman then spend money on her. Spend money that does not mean much to you, don't break the bank to impress her. Take it like a high risk investment like putting money in stock market in Tanzania, so put in the amount you can easily afford to lose.
If it turns out to be a scam, well it was bad luck, learn from it and move on, don't regret loosing the money that should be an amount you can write off as bad investment.
After marriage? Well then she is a partner in your life and what is yours is hers

I thought it was what's hers is hers and what is yours is hers?  
 
Rookie
  Treat it like you're going to Vegas-only spend what money you can comfortably afford to lose and enjoy yourself while spending it.  If things work out, then great, but if they  don't then at least you had a good time.  

  I read your letters and you come across as desperate to get married. I see guys like you all the time and like sharks smelling blood in the water, the predatory women are just as good at spotting it.  

  It's getting a bit old reading about how your doing this for the good of mankind and you're just the humble working guy that got stiffed.  Rookie I think it's safe that every man on this board has been had taken advantage of by a woman (Russian, Ukrainian, American etc..) at least once in his life.  

Do you have a roof over your head?
Do you still have a decent income?
Other then emotionally has your life been dramatically affected?
Did you enjoy the time with her and visiting a foreign country?

I would say from the figures you gave her, It might add up to a week in Vegas.  You've gotten her name out on the web, if some other guy wants to rush into a relationship with a 19 YO and doesn't do the research-oh well not your problem.  You can't save the world (I didn't see you wearing blue tights with a red cape)

  From all of the pictures and letters you've posted, even Ray Charles could see that you still have strong feelings for her. Delete all of the letters, the photos that have her in them and get on with your life.  Until you find your cajones and stand up for yourself, your will continue to be mark for the rest of your life.

  You appear to be a decent guy that got taken advantage of-it happens!! The true charactor of a person is not how they deal the good times, but how they deal with the bad times.

 Get off your cross, other people need the wood!!
  
  I'm outta here, I've got crime to Supervise

[neo]

I'm with Gator

you basically spend what you would spend on any AW during the same period of relationship with a couple of tweaks.

Usually FSU women dont have a lot of spare dough, so if you are cournting you can do the gentleman thing and pay her taxi fares to and from your dates unless she takes teh bus or metro where appropriate but if its late you should always take her home in a taxi.

Beyond that, then for birthdays, womens day, valentines, new years then you should buy her the usual courting gifts. FSUW like to be courted so you can show you are a generous man without getting a lot of money out simply by turning up on a date with fresh flowers. Buy her small gifts - get her some duty free perfume on the flight over, some lingerie on valentines day, a winter coat or some boots or a nice dress and some shoes. you buy her the usual gifts a good attentive man buys a normal girl when they are courting to show he is generous and kind without trying to buy her affections or show his wealth.

Regarding expenses, if you are engaged it depends on her situation but that ccan get men into trouble, i would say her out of pocket expenses on things liek visa processing documents or such like,. you could buy her once you are together a cheap PC so she can use SKYPE at home which will save you a lot on calls and mail, pay her internet fees - but sensible.

if you want to treat her take her to get her nails done or some beauty treatments, they will only cost you 5 or 10 bucks for a couple of hours of her being pampered but it shoes the right signs that you like to take care of a lady - what women are loooking for are the details - not the big gestures.

[Gator]

Crazybear wrote,

I read you letters and you come across as desperate to get married. I see guys like you all the time and like sharks smelling blood in the water, the predatory women are just as good at spotting it. 

FSU Rookie.  It would help you immensely if you would paste Bear's words onto your computer screen. 

You are a nice person, a teacher of kids.  There are many nice women out there.  Here is one example who I personally know to be sincere (a very close friend of my Moscow woman). 

http://www.elenasmodels.com/index.php?ap=9665472

I met her.  She is decent, sincere, interesting and extremely intelligent.  She is not a disco woman nor is she predatory.  She just wants to find a good, loving man.  And she prefers America (Florida to be honest, but Chicago would suffice).

She may not compare to your Maria in looks department; however, she is attractive, and better looking than her photos (made by my Moscow woman).  You can tell from her photos that she is not high maintenance.  She is the type of woman who would rather spend her limited money on a good book rather than cosmetics.  Women like her are pillars of happy family life.

[neo]

Or you could go for another "shy and sheltered" 18 year old like Veronika here who clearly has the intention of finding a sincere and honest man which is why her ass is hanging out of her dress.

[Gator]

Neo,

It would be interesting to compare the profiles of the two women.

[neo]

Gator

http://www.russianlovematch.com/profile/profile.aspx?toid=208983

don't be tempted by the sins of the flesh.

[Nando]

Gator

http://www.russianlovematch.com/profile/profile.aspx?toid=208983

don't be tempted by the sins of the flesh.

She was walking on Sovietska Vul on August. Indeed a marriage oriented daughter

[docetae]

If you feel comfortable in a relationship, are enjoying it and trust the woman then spend money on her. Spend money that does not mean much to you, don't break the bank to impress her. Take it like a high risk investment like putting money in stock market in Tanzania, so put in the amount you can easily afford to lose.
If it turns out to be a scam, well it was bad luck, learn from it and move on, don't regret loosing the money that should be an amount you can write off as bad investment.
After marriage? Well then she is a partner in your life and what is yours is hers

I have a simple rule that make everything simple, about money support, I will not send her per month more than what I earn in one working day. Just do a budget and follow it carefully.

[GregfromGa]

Dear FSU-R

As others have said, you have been had, and thats how it is.

The only question is, did you have a piece of her in the process? I hope you did and I hope it was worth some of the money spent.

  Did this question get answered? She certainly has a look about her that would make a grown man cry. I'm hoping that he was able to knock off a piece as well.

[objuan]

OK.. this forum is getting interesting. I have a quik question for SEREBRO...
What would a ladies ideal age be for me, I'm 42 (but I'm alway's told I look in my 30's). I'm considering doing some International dating, but I'm starting to think twice here.

[GregfromGa]

Gator

http://www.russianlovematch.com/profile/profile.aspx?toid=208983

don't be tempted by the sins of the flesh.

  Call me old fashioned but there is absolutely no way in hell I'm writing to a woman that puts these photos on her profile.  The problem is that there are guys that will. I would say 97% of those guys are living in bizzaro world. While I know there is no exact science to all this I can pretty much guarantee that women who put these types of photos in the their profiles will have a little more difficult time adjusting to life here in the USA while being married to a 40 year old.  Granted I dont have the hard numbers to prove this but do yourself a favor and take my word for it.

[Jazzyclassy]

Those guys who will write to such girl of 18 y.o with such photos are old farts with big wallets who just want to have fun while they are still alive

and the girl , this girl is finishing exactly for such type of old fools with money  though both of those categories such women and such men are like Greg told living in a bizzaro world and are equal to each other , simply no other comments they can require it is all said by the pictures ,people are no silly fool to believe that this girl is something serious, oh come on   just people are fed up with such low cultured superficial women , why do you ever post them here , only provoking an endless disgust nothing else

[Kuna]

FSURookie...

I can only agree with those above... there's a lot of good advice up there.

I'm not going to beat you up or anything but I think you either genuinely don't see the errors you made or you're trying your best to defend your decisions. Which ever one it is doesn't matter... You were clearly scammed right from when you were selecting profiles and I believe you will return to FSU much better informed next time.

I do wonder though what was going through your mind while a member here reading about scams all the while dishing out money to this harlot in Ukraine.  By the way... that's what she is... no better than a harlot.

In your posts above you say something to the effect "I couldn't write about her profile much because there wasn't much in there?"

May I ask... would you respond to an AW who has a bring profile?

I would implore all men to ignore profile photos until after they've found an interesting profile!  There's nothing in a photo that should inspire you to visit a woman.  If you find a genuinely great profile and swap a few messages you may find someone you'd like to visit.  That's a good time to check out her photo to see who you're going to meet (I am saying this figuratively of course).  If you feel yourself being inspired by a photo before the words slap yourself.   

You age selection

You see now as a 41 yr old man that choosing to write to a 19 year old is probably the dumbest thing you did.  Simply put... no 19 yr old should be able to tempt a mature stable 41 yr old.

If you want children in the future what's wrong with a nice 30 yr old?  Nothing... in fact she will be a much better partner than a 19 yr old will be any day.  If you don't want children why not go all out and treat youself to a 35 yr old.  Now you're in the range where you're likely to find a fabulous partner.

(That might answer the other posters question about age range for a 41-42 yr old man)... There's simply nothing a 19 yr old can offer you.

To the poster that used the comment "I'm 42 but people tell me I look X"
Let me promise you that no 30 yr old man feels 30... no 40 yr old feels 40.. no 50 yr old... well you've got the idea.  If people tell you that you look younger than your age you should feel insulted rather than complimented.  Be proud of your age and don't be fooled into thinking you can stretch the age gap and still minimize your risks!

Again... if you are 41 or 42 there is absolutely nothing wrong with a wonderful 30 - 35 yr old woman for you...

You asked: "When and how much money should we give?"

My answer is simple.  Nothing outside of reasonable dating costs... and then you wouldn't give it to her anyway, you'd just spend it.

Why give her anything at all?  I truly believe that any woman asking for money is a bad potential wife whether she is a scammer or not.

They all live quite nicely (in relative terms) right now so why would there be an expectation they will suddenly have money to splash around just because they have a foreign bf.

The good girls simply don't want your money... they'd rather suffocate than feel like a charity case!

FSURookie...

The greatest advice I can give you is to identify the cheerleaders around you (including in here) and block them out of your mind.  Listen to the men that might sound harsh but they have proven what they know.  (I am referring specifically to people like jb, Jack and KenC (other than his age range anomaly - but he'll set you straight on that anyway.

there are more men that you might believe that come here and STILL get scammed simply because they listen to the wrong guys.

this isn't easy.. it is hard work...  we all run a risk... and the worse thing we can do is act when we think we're prepared but in fact we're just misinformed.

I'm lucky... I picked up on it fairly early and I thin I'm safe.  I know others (including you) haven't been so lucky.

All be best in the future.

Kuna

[mspanky]

Why is someone always wanting to know how young they can go because they look much younger? If you're 42 but look 30's so what? You should'nt be concentrating so much on how old you are, but how old she is. If she's under 28(near 20) let it go!

 If you want kids women 30 and above can still have them last I checked. Even if you want to wait 5 years till you're 47 if she's 30,she will be 35. You're ok.

  Besides guys are so focused on how old she will be when the kids are born they forget to focus on themselves and their age too. Older fathers can have issues with old sperm.

 So if you're 42 and look 30's it does'nt mean you can date 18-25 year olds. It means you have the brain of a 42 year old man so use it!