Why is your marriage successful?

[KenC]

Why is your marriage successful when so many others have failed?

OK married guys, spill it for all to see.  Many inquiring minds want to know how to make the best of this pursuit.  You have succeeded in traversing some very perilous territory and they want to know why?  (For this exercise, "success" will be defined as 2+ years married and green card in hand)  Please no theories from the yet to be marrieds, although a good question or two is always welcome.  The comments can be from the search, to the selection, to the immigration issues, family issues and of course relationship issues.  If you want to get into the concepts of  assimilating to a new country, have at it.
KenC

[I/O]

KenC: OK here goes because I suspect this subject might not gain traction easily. Forget the process leading to it for a moment, but if you had to name ONE single thing that is attributable to both of you or your marriage, (Whichever you see as applicable)  what would that one single thing be? (And perhaps an example of that attribute in action) Please don't answer "Love" as I am looking for more specific insight.

BTW, if the number one thing is too personal to speak on here, that's fine, but name your attribute as the number two in order to keep things in proper perspective if you wouldn't mind please.

Further it would be nice if you could relate your comment to the fact that your wife is Russian as it is interesting to differentiate between a W/R marriage and a W/W marriage.

You have all the time you want to think about this. I ain't putting you (Or anyone else) on a time line as I feel this subject, if dealt with properly, could be really valuable information to us UMB's (UnMarried Bastards.)

I/O

[catzenmouse]

Why is your marriage successful when so many others have failed?

Easy, because I do what I'm told, when I'm told without question! 

There is no way I can put one or two things down as being "it". It is such a conglomeration of things, some bigger and some smaller, that make it work for us. Sure, there is all the stuff we talk about with the patience, emotional support, helping but not smothering as she works her way through the changes in life and lifestyle. Love, honor, caring, sharing,  mutual respect, mutual hopes/dreams/outlook to name a few. In the end I guess you could just say that we "fit" each other. That and the fact that she's able to put up with my being a supreme PIA sometimes.

Compared to my WW marriage it is like night and day in so many of these things but I'm not going to explain all that. Just take it that we did not "fit" as a couple.

Ken

[GregfromGa]

This month will make 4 years of marriage for us. My wife is now a US citzen with a blue passport. We have a 1 year old baby girl. Our marriage is successful because of lots of patience on both sides. As many of you may or may not know I met my wife in a more conventional way. I actually just walked up to her and started talking to her. She wasnt looking to get married. We've made several trips back to Ukraine but more important is we've had mama come visit us 4 times. We travel but we dont live out of our means.

My wife owns and operates her own business. She does above average for a village girl from Ukraine. My wife is very frugal. My wife is a wonderful mother. My wife has made very very few American lady friends and that is all her choice. My wife doesnt do clubs and she never has. I have absolutely no reason to ever look at another woman. Wherever we go and whatever room we walk into there is no doubt I am with the prettiest girl there and she doesnt even have to try.

I can tell you this. There were times when I asked myself WTF were you thinking marrying this focking crazy woman. As I've said before to argue with her you have to throw out all reason and logic at times. It hasnt been easy but I've never cheated and I know she never will as well. My wife was young when we met. She had never experienced anything to do with love and dating and marriage. I had never been married. We learned together about this. I'm probably not the best to give advice on the subject because I did marry such a wonderful innocent girl. As hard as we worked at our marriage looking back it wasnt that big of a deal.

[jb]

My marriage crossed the 5 year line some months ago and I have to echo Ken's thoughts,,, there simply isn't one or two large things that can be listed as the reason for success.  My wife is very intelligent, thoughtful, considerate of my wishes and needs, and very eager for this family to survive as a unit.  I try very hard to be a good listener, a good provider, generous with both time and patience as she sorts through new things and new cultural concepts.

And like Ken,,, I do what I'm told, and do it when I'm told.  This should not be taken to mean that RWs are too terribly demanding, actually my wife is very easy to please.   It's the little things in our life that add up to the big picture.

[Jumper]

Ok. this will sound so clich'e ,
and my apologies..
but the fundamentals,  are what they are!  

Commitment to each other , and to the marriage, Love and mutual respect.
Talking things thru, yes communication..(not to start that whole debate again lol)

that sounds trite and rather simple , i suppose .
and it can be!  
it can also be a culmination of patience, hard work ,true understanding  for each others differences and strong personalities , and caring compromise.


I see tons of marriages fail (domestic) and in my opinion 90% of them are from one simple concept.
The two people ,that at one time cared deeply for each other somehow lost simple respect for each other.
familiarity breeds contempt perhaps? i dont have the answer,
 but i see it often enough..
married couples often do not treat each other with even the slightest respect they would give a total stranger.


its one of the guidelines/rules of our hoiuse,
if you are about to say something..rethink if you would say such to a guest.
if not, then simply keep it to yourself ,
give it some time, see if it needs to be stated at all,
if so, certainly bring it up! and discuss it!
but  reword it accordingly..
as often its not what you say, but how you say it.
 

i'm not trying to over simplify things,
but in my belief if two people care for each other.
simply common everyday respect for each other as individuals will go a very very long way.

 there will be times this is easier or more difficult,
but by being honest ,open, and respectful to each other..
 certainly gives your marriage a solid foundation to build on..


As far as the RW part of the equation.
It brings both additional difficulties into the equation,
 but also bring in my mind brings a stronger element of commitment.
If a RW truly loves you, you will be hard pressed to lose her.
They tend to have a lot more determintation and inner strenght
(generality i know, but it seems to hold up )


The funny part about this is,there is an element that is hard to put into words..
as Ken and jb mentioned,
 it is made up of a combination of many smaller things..
 the married guys will get it..
but I doubt any of us can truly put it into words that can really relate it well..
Hopefully someone can..........

[I/O]

its one of the guidelines/rules of our hoiuse,
if you are about to say something..rethink if you would say such to a guest.
if not, then simply keep it to yourself ,
give it some time, see if it needs to be stated at all,
if so, certainly bring it up! and discuss it!
but  reword it accordingly..
as often its not what you say, but how you say it.

Not to undervalue anything said so far by anyone else, but this is the gem for me so far. We all know it, but for me at least, thanks for whacking me with this again at this time. I've been a bit hard on you guys asking you to single something out as I understand better than perhaps you realise. I was married for 10 years not all that long ago and it was, right up till the end, a very good marriage by any measure. It is hard to define those little things in written words.

AJ that's a gem of a snippit. Kudos.

I/O

[KenC]

I/O,
Very asstute in picking up on AJ's comment.  You have to understand that you will have much more interaction with your Russian bride than you would a local one. She will be talking with you constantly as she will have no one else to turn to except you.  I was never so relieved as when Lena aquired a close group of FSU lady friends here in San Diego.  Beofre then it was all me and only me.  A couple can get a little over exposed to each other too.  The way you two talk to each other is as important as what you have to say.
KenC

[Admin]

I honestly don't think of my marriage in that way - as a "success" or not.

Yes, we have been married for more than 6 years, and together for a year longer. Yes, we have weathered some VERY nasty challenges. Yes, we still tell each other "I Love You" daily - some days more often than others. And yes, we make plans for a lengthy future together.

We also struggle with day-to-day challenges of children - mine and ours. We deal with issues of my vindictive and hate-filled ex-wife. We are constantly planning and re-planning to respond to the ever-changing nature of my work.

In a word - what keep us together is 'commitment'. We are both committed to making this marriage, and this family, work. It is often not easy. It takes constant nurturing. It sometimes feels frail.

If it does not sound glamorous or romantic - that is by design. We have our romantic moments - and we cherish them - but our days are not filled with notions of romantic fantasy.

Is it a "success"? I don't know. It is infinitely better than my previous marriage - and it causes me pause sometimes to consider what life might have been if my ONLY marriage had been my current one - but those thoughts are fleeting for their non-productivity.

What *is* productive is to consider the strength we have each shown at different times to remain together when conventional wisdom would have driven us to separate - that 'commitment' thing again. We also share a common faith which helps us to find common ground and 'glue' when daily struggles threaten to yank us apart.

FWIW

- Dan

[Shadow]

Actually I can not respond, as there is not formal marriage. But we passed the stage of feeling married already a long time ago.
When I landed in the plane two years ago we were both nervous. We started something that was new to us, with a lot of insecurity. Would there be the struggles and tests, would my pets accept her or be jealous ?
Within a couple of weeks we could both hardly remember the nerves. We were, and still are, as natural together as a couple that has lived all of their life in one place. We are very alike in thoughts, and while Mila is more impulsive I am the more thoughtful. This is a great combination.
Our life together is something that we both have been looking for during a long time. And both can only compare it to what we have seen of our parents.

[KenC]

I think it is kind of funny that most of the posts we see here on RWD are filled with words that indicate the infatuation that develops at the beginning of a relationship but rarely hear about the words of commitment that truly makes the loving relationship last long term.  RWD is blessed with many men in long term marriages and we should be available as a source for the many more that are in the first stages of their relationships.

The things that were important at the start of a relationship have very little to do with the long term success or failure of that relationship long term.  Hey, I married a very beautiful and sexy woman and although those characteristics caught my attention initially and certainly do not hurt my attention to her even today, they are not the important characteristics to maintain our relationship either.

One's personality and moral character are the cornerstones for a good relationship.  Having found your match in these areas is critical to your future happiness.  From these cornerstones develop mutual respect and a true likeness for each other.

All the hot lustful reasons for the initial interests does not necessarily die down over the years, but a more even or reasonable level is attained over time.  But the friendship and companionship does not level out and only grows over time together if you are matched with the right person.

Some how we need to convey the need to look a little deeper into the RW's character and moral standards beyond whether or not she is a scammer.  There is a huge gap between just not being a scammer and being a good person.  Guys need to pay more attention to the moral fiber of their selected women.  Is she honest?  Can you trust her?  Do you like her?  Do you respect her?  Is she someone you would like to spend time with?(Outside the bedroom)  Because you are going to spend the majority of your life there.
KenC

[I/O]

This should not be taken to mean that RWs are too terribly demanding, actually my wife is very easy to please.   It's the little things in our life that add up to the big picture.

JB: I think I understand you, but perhaps you could provide one or two simple examples? Again particularly as it relates to a Russian woman rather than a western woman. (Not being a smart arse here, this is a genuine question as I would really like to drill down on those "Little things")

BTW I understand that all this walks to the fine line between that which can be spoken publically and that which should remain within the sanctity of marriage. I simply feel this thread could become one of the great resources for all of us, OMB's and UMB's alike.

I/O

[Jet]

(Not being a smart arse here, this is a genuine question as I would really like to drill down on those "Little things")

One of the main problems with "drilling down" is that those little things are probably different in each relationship - but for sure, you'll know them when you see them 

Like Dan, I hesitate to proclaim success with any amount of authority, as I'm almost afraid to jinx my good fortune thus far. Lil and I are rapidly approaching our 4th anniversary, and so far, what has worked for us is the "equal but different" philosophy. We both work hard at the relationship, but in different ways. My patience and generally laid back outlook is tempered by her tenacity and vice versa. We have survived thus far on brute determination in the face of a plethora of adversities. We have each sacrificed much for the sake of the other, and it doesn't go unappreciated on either side. (a quick example: for 1.5 years before she got her D/L, I'd drive her to and from work every day. It was 28 miles one way so that added 112 EXTRA miles to my commute daily)

[Son of Clyde]

I think the idea is compromise and never go to sleep angry.

There can be two different mindsets and the idea is to borrow from each and to work together.

I never said it was easy.

[I/O]

Should we kick the term success off RWD completely and adopt the term WIP? (Work In Progress)

It was 28 miles one way so that added 112 EXTRA miles to my commute daily

OK Jet, now we are cooking with gas. Pulling info out of these guys is like pulling teeth out of ones own mouth, possible but painful and slow.  I've tried this before with little success. You OMB's are all great at saying it is different, the little things matter, you will know it when you see it, you will see rah rah rah, but none of you want to come up with the goods.  That leads me to think you are either BSing, you don't know or there is not much difference from any other marriage.

Either you guys have some knowledge or you don't? Put up or shut up springs to mind. All this hinting around doesn't do anything for anyone. Don't dance around the bucket, kick the "effing" thing over and let the water out on the floor.

C'mon you guys, ya don't get off easy here.  Jet has come up with the sort of example I was looking for. Try this....name two things you do or did early on in your marriage because she was a Russian woman that would not have been necessary or desirable if she had been a western woman. (Other than prolly getting laid more regularly)

I/O

[vwrw]

Dan, Jet, I see, you are shy or bashful guys. You have all necessary bases (as well as KenC, jb, catzenmouse, GregfromGa, AJ, Shadow, SonofClyde have) to assert that your marriages are successes!!!  A success is NOT an absence of difficulties and challenge at your past and at your present. The success is an ABCENCE of REGRETS that you spend/spent your time and strengths to overcome the difficulties and challenge to keep your marriage working out.

[Mir]

No, not shy or bashful but modest and humble

[Turboguy]

For the most part modest and humble don't seem like they are the most common attributes of RWD members but I am not meaning that as a negative.

I was sitting here trying to think of common attributes of the wives in the successful marriages and can't find much on the surface.   Two are teachers, but some prefer not to work at all.   Some have children now, some don't.  Some are married to men I would consider to be very affluent, some are married to men who would fit the class of good guys who work hard but don't quite fall into the rich class. 

One thing I might like to ask is about their integration into American society.   What percentage of their friends are American and what percent are from the FSU?

Another thing I might ask is if there is even a single case where the wife arrived with no English abilities or extreamly limited?

[jb]

I/O,

I don't think any of us OMBs will sit here and try to write a "How To" manual for you.  We only know how we approach the task at hand each day,,, and every day is different.  If I were to try to sum it up in a single word, I would say "patience" is key.  You are going to have to bend over backwards to keep your cool and learn to bite your tongue.  Things you might say to a local woman will be seen as being overly critical from a RW viewpoint.  You have to remember, the RW is working 10 time harder than you are at adjusting to her new home and husband.  All that hard work and effort she is putting forth has to be appreciated by you.  If not, she will be tempted to throw in the towel and stop trying.  That's when the train wreck occurs.

[I/O]

Things you might say to a local woman will be seen as being overly critical from a RW viewpoint.  You have to remember, the RW is working 10 time harder than you are at adjusting to her new home and husband.  All that hard work and effort she is putting forth has to be appreciated by you. 

Three sentences, three gems.

I/O

[Admin]

Should we kick the term success off RWD completely and adopt the term WIP? (Work In Progress)
OK Jet, now we are cooking with gas. Pulling info out of these guys is like pulling teeth out of ones own mouth, possible but painful and slow.  I've tried this before with little success. You OMB's are all great at saying it is different, the little things matter, you will know it when you see it, you will see rah rah rah, but none of you want to come up with the goods.  That leads me to think you are either BSing, you don't know or there is not much difference from any other marriage.

Either you guys have some knowledge or you don't? Put up or shut up springs to mind. All this hinting around doesn't do anything for anyone. Don't dance around the bucket, kick the "effing" thing over and let the water out on the floor.

C'mon you guys, ya don't get off easy here.  Jet has come up with the sort of example I was looking for. Try this....name two things you do or did early on in your marriage because she was a Russian woman that would not have been necessary or desirable if she had been a western woman. (Other than prolly getting laid more regularly)

I/O

I'll add ONE thing which comes to mind.

Olya spoke almost no English when she first arrived, and for the first 3 months or so we spoke only Russian. This, in spite of the fact my Russian is marginal.

She also needed some health care. She needed some significant dental work, and there are the normal girly things which need periodic attention.

So here is the dilemma. She needs medical care, but cannot communicate with the docs. I get elected to be the 'official' go-between, which means I must attend, and translate, during a variety of medical procedures - most (all?) of which I have never seen before - or since.

That is clearly something I would not have done with any AW - and, at times, it made me feel acutely uncomfortable. Still, in all, I think it was also a bonding activity - but one I am happy she now speaks sufficient (excellent) English and I no longer need to translate for her.

- Dan

[BC]

Certainly not waving a victory flag here, but probably the most important factor that allowed our relationship to begin on a good 'first note' is the total absence of anything MOB related. We simply met without relationship intentions and grew from there.

The positives
No MOB.
No 'agenda'.
No compelling need or desire to emigrate.
Both experienced other cultures beforehand, reasonably well travelled.
Both at the point in our lives where we were ready to 'settle down'.
Mutual desires for another child.
Common language.
And yes jb, a sh!tload of patience.



The negatives
Age difference
Fewer (not few) common interests / hobbies
Different mentality such as child rearing / monetary practices.
Differing life priorities and values.. (example: I'm thinking of the retirement fund and she wants a new car..)

I can only conclude that the assets are proving themselves greater than the liabilities and risk involved, but believe me the balance sheet was quite close in the beginning. The bottom however is slowly growing in value every year, proportional to the work we put in. 

Had our relationship started via MOB, we would have clearly started 'in the red' and likely today be either still paying back the initial loan or maybe even declared bankruptcy by now.

You may have noticed I left 'love', beauty, and sex out of the equation above.. I've seen these come and go so many times that I list it as an 'intangible asset' that provides icing and candles on the cake but does not work well for the foundation.  Try to build a cake starting with lit, upside down candles..

[jb]

You may have noticed I left 'love', beauty, and sex out of the equation above..

So did I,,, I thought that was a given.  The man asked how, not why.

[Jet]

I was sitting here trying to think of common attributes of the wives in the successful marriages and can't find much on the surface.   

If you are looking for a common thread, you will have to go a bit deeper. IMHO what ties the "successful" couples together, is that in each case, the husband gave the wife the support, the tools and the opportunity to be in charge of her own destiny. I can say that in my case, I am absolutely sure that my wife is by my side because she chooses to be, not because I've put her into a situation where she feels dependent, trapped, or that she HAS to be.

Specifics will vary by couple and goals. In our relationship I knew that Liliya would not be happy as a stay-at-home Mom. She made it very clear that she wanted a career (not a just job at 7-11). Armed with that knowledge, preparations started long before she arrived. I researched best possible language schools in the area, and let her choose from what I felt were the top 3. I moved from a house on the outskirts of a smaller town to the center of a larger city. This is not always possible for homeowners, but for guys that rent - consider it. That move gave her access to a very good public transportation system so she could move around on her own before she started driving. It also gave access to a lot of cultural  things, like the library (which has a very nice Russian language section), and of course, shopping. I researched requirements for credential evaluation and professional certification, so she knew ahead of time what the requirements were going to be regarding advancement of her career. I picked her up a cell phone so she would always have me just a call away, should she need anything. These are all relatively minor things but they mean a lot when she is just arriving in your country.

[BC]

You may have noticed I left 'love', beauty, and sex out of the equation above..

So did I,,, I thought that was a given.  The man asked how, not why.

Indeed, but many do confuse 'how' and 'why'..

'I divorced the ol' AW bag because she got fat and ugly'
    ergo> If RW keep their beauty, I'll stay married, and won't seek 'strange'.
etc..