Bringing the family

[ScottinCrimea]

but it looks like all foreigners meet only Russians there.Gabaub, how did you distinguish them?!

Serebro, it seems you also missed this quote: "...and also like to whine endlessly about "Why don't they have this like we have it in Russia."

Just maybe this gives him a clue that they are from Russia and not Ukraine? 

[DKMM]

Ahh yes, reality is something most Russians don't like rubbed in their faces and I've met more than one with Serebro's inferiority complex.  Believe me people, I would never point these things out to E!  Well ok maybe a little bit because she complains how it is there too, but no way would I ever slam Russia in front of my girl.  That's like telling an AW she needs to lose weight.   

But, I'm never one on here to withhold or slant my opinion to avoid hurting feelings so I will report as I wish.  And everyone is welcome to comment as they wish.  Serebro, the personal attacks are worthless, they mean nothing to me, I'm a strong man.  Sorry for you I'm already taken.   

[DKMM]

Oops I am writing a TR here!

OK Friday we wake up and my brother and mum are ready to go at 9am.  Brother comes to my room and E gets the door and tells him I'm sleeping.  That meant no he cannot come in and interrupt me!  That one moment was the only thing he pointed out to me later that might be a negative in her, but he didn't get that she puts me first even when it may seem rude to others.  Anyway I woke up anyway and we hit the road at the customary Russian 10am beginning to the day.

First stop was the Hermitage, which was my dear mothers #1 priority to see in this city.  Being a good momma's boy I made sure we did this first to have plenty of time to do it.  For the 1st time I got a Russian citizen ticket!  I've been told I can do it because I look and dress Russian so why not try it and save some money.  As soon as we got in my brother took off in a futile attempt to rush through the entire museum.  I hung with E and mum and it was pretty much them together while I was just there being the good boyfriend/son.  We hit a shop and E picked out lots of art on canvas for me to bring back and put up on my walls (yippee!).  E and my mom already have a list of projects they will do together to decorate my house and hitting the frame shop just got added to it.  Its all good though because she's coming here during my busy season so she will need something to do while I work all day.

One would think the Hermitage might be enough of a day's activities but we were only getting started.  1st we wandered to the spilt blood cathedral.  I noticed a LOT of tour buses, many more than last year.  Then some more shopping and made our way over to St. Isaacs.  Another Russian ticket for me and we made our way to the top.  Its a wonderful view up here, E and mom could see the palaces and old architecture.  For me and my bro we were entertained more by the port/shipyard and the nuclear power plants in the distance.

We managed to get back to the flat with minutes to spare before we met E's mom and sister for dinner at a nearby restaurant.  I was a little nervous to meet the FMIL to be honest.  I was getting ready in the room when I heard them walk by the window.  Oh no they were coming back!  The doorbell rang just as I was getting done and there they were.  I let them all come in and somehow grabbed my huge pile of clutter and stuffed it under the bed in the 3 seconds I had on them.  My FMIL was a very nice lady and carried herself quite well.  I can instantly tell that my E was raised right by this woman.

The Georgian restaurant was great!  The wine list was lacking but we managed.  One corner was filled with a circle of older men in suits all smoking drinking and laughing like something out of the Godfather.  For the most part the moms talked with E as the interpreter so I just talked to her sister and my brother.  On the walk back I finally had some alone time with her mom and my Russian skills lasted me all of 2 minutes but I could tell she appreciated it.  Its rare for me to force a conversation in 100% Russian, and its a chore especially when trying to make an impression.  It must have worked though as E told me they really liked me and my family!  And yes I paid for this meal, which was came to about 6000 rub.

[Jazzyclassy]

Serebro, DKMM just told his opinion and point of view how he found Russia , that is his experience and that is how he felt being there, there is nothing anyone of us can do

but I gotta defend Serebro here

you guys, all of you were extremely hard on her, and so harsh

what are you thinking here, you are married to such women like Serebro she is also Russian and with her point of view, why the hell you insult and bring down the girl of a country you admire so much and got your wives from there aaaaaa? I do not understand you

some like FSURookie is paying tons of money in order to bend over some scammer, the other ones are getting married on some random Russian women who are telling only positive things and keep their own opinion inside of course , cos those guys are paying for them, and when a normal girl is coming up with some valid opinion you all are like a bunch of teenagers school boys from Junior school whose hobby is bullying

I also remember how you were all treating me and other opinionated people

I just wanna say you offended Serebro for nothing

that is on your conscience

[Misha]

but it looks like all foreigners meet only Russians there.Gabaub, how did you distinguish them?!

 

Ochen prosto: ya svobodno govoryu na russkom!

[Serebro]

Serebro, it seems you also missed this quote: "...and also like to whine endlessly about "Why don't they have this like we have it in Russia."

Just maybe this gives him a clue that they are from Russia and not Ukraine? 

Most ex-FSU people say they are from Russia if they aren't Russians and actually are from Belarussia, Uzbekistan or Ukraine. The reason is simple:not all Americans know that Russia exists (I was asked what the name of my country was after 1991 as Russia didn't exist anymore)
gabaub, bolshinstvo ukraintshev, kazaknov i predstaviteley inyh natshionalnostey ne ochen lubyatshih Rossiyu tozhe na nem svobodno govoryat

DKMM

Serebro [insult removed]

Well, as I see personal insults are ok here. DKMM, next time you use some russian word look its meaning in the dictionary.

[Misha]

Most ex-FSU people say they are from Russia if they aren't Russians and actually are from Belarussia, Uzbekistan or Ukraine. The reason is simple:not all Americans know that Russia exists (I was asked what the name of my country was after 1991 as Russia didn't exist anymore)
gabaub, bolshinstvo ukraintshev, kazaknov i predstaviteley inyh natshionalnostey ne ochen lubyatshih Rossiyu tozhe na nem svobodno govoryat

Ya znayu a kogda ya govoryu s nimi oni sami rasskazhut esli oni russkie ili ukraintsy itd. No obychna ya mogu dogodatsya esli u cheloveka ukrainskiy yazyk kak rodnoy yazyk potomu shto on proiznosit "g" kak "kh." Vot primer: "on khovorit" i ne "govorit" kogda my poboltaem na russkom 

[Serebro]

Ya znayu a kogda ya govoryu s nimi oni sami rasskazhut esli oni russkie ili ukraintsy itd. No obychna ya mogu dogodatsya esli u cheloveka ukrainskiy yazyk kak rodnoy yazyk potomu shto on proiznosit "g" kak "kh." Vot primer: "on khovorit" i ne "govorit" kogda my poboltaem na russkom 

The whole Stavropolye belonging to Russia has this pronunciation, too.

[Serebro]

KenC, I will put a sock in it. You know exactly what i am talking about.
 But on the whole I agree-I am very sensitive. Handle with care.

[KenC]

Do you really think that I don't know how other perceive my country?!
But thank you for the compliment anyway.I hadn't known that you still pay attention at girls'photos as you have your Lena....
But that was the mean situation to use someone else's personal information given here one day to put it anywhere just as a personal offence.My opinion was better, Ken, you really encourage people to post their real photos here in order to call them fat or skiny or bald bastards in the future in the threads that you don't like.Very childish.Very mean and very sad.Just for you to know, the look that I have now is much worse after the disease I had in May-July that I had mentioned here before when I was completely dissatisfied with my look and posting my photos here was just the way to show myself that I am still brave enough to show my real look.I just hope that neither you, nor your Lena nor your children will ever have to do the same things on forums.
But on the whole I agree-I am very sensitive. Handle with care.

What on earth are you talking about?
KenC

[KenC]

Serebro, DKMM just told his opinion and point of view how he found Russia , that is his experience and that is how he felt being there, there is nothing anyone of us can do

but I gotta defend Serebro here

you guys, all of you were extremely hard on her, and so harsh

what are you thinking here, you are married to such women like Serebro she is also Russian and with her point of view, why the hell you insult and bring down the girl of a country you admire so much and got your wives from there aaaaaa? I do not understand you

some like FSURookie is paying tons of money in order to bend over some scammer, the other ones are getting married on some random Russian women who are telling only positive things and keep their own opinion inside of course , cos those guys are paying for them, and when a normal girl is coming up with some valid opinion you all are like a bunch of teenagers school boys from Junior school whose hobby is bullying

I also remember how you were all treating me and other opinionated people

I just wanna say you offended Serebro for nothing

that is on your conscience

Jazzy,
Back to your old "bullying" claims again I see!  Let's get a few things straight here.  #1 Russia aint perfect.  As much as I admire your country, there is also a lot wrong with it too.  That is the reality of things.  I understand that you and Serebro love your country, as do I love mine.  I am realistic enough to understand that my country is not perfect and there are many faults.  You two need to grow up and develop some maturity on this subject.

When someone reports their observations via a trip report, as DKMM is doing here, there is no debate on those observations.  Wrong or right, those are his observations.  They are not subject to YOUR OPINIONS.  Deal with it!  You and Serebro are way off base in your comments.
KenC

[Kuna]

*clears throat*

So.... DKMM... what happens next in your TRIP REPORT?

[DKMM]

Its ok Kuna, my TR's have usually been subject to controversy or at least start some kind of arguments.  BTW I've been away for a while and I'd like to give you props to your next leg of your journey.  You lucky dog to get her there so soon, I only wish I could say the same.

I do have further to go on this story and i'll finish tomorrow.  it does have a grande finale but some on here might not like it. 

PS Serebro you aren't bad looking if I recall correctly and I think your attitude is kind of sexy for what its worth (probably part of what draws me to RW).  But I'm just a crazy American...

[Kuna]

DKMM,

WE LOVE CONTRAVERSY!!!  Please continue your TR.

As for me being a lucky dog I feel more like a "pig in sh!t".  Unbelievable process we've been through... and you don't know some of it. Maybe one day I will post the missing gaps.

Anyway...  My beautiful wonderful charismatic "head of the household" (even though she promises she will make me feel like I'm boss) left her home city 5 minutes ago and is now on her way to collect her visa.  We're expecting everything to go smoothly and then she'll spend 4 days with the family in Moscow.  After that I'm doing a final check of our home and primping myself till I'm ready to meet her at the airport...

Mate... you've got a good girl.. you know it...  you've had some challenges like all of us but just keep it real and (a bit of advice after reading your TR so far) remember your married life is a union of two people with others (like mothers) as satellites...

The only showstopper My Girl and I faced related to mothers and I totally respect her opinion on this. 

I know you'll do the right thing because you're a good man and every good man needs a... well...  RW behind him. 

Looking forward to your next installment...

[Bruce]

Serebro, I would not take things personally.  As far as I am concerned you easily had a beautiful photo of yourself.  You probably misinterpreted something Ken C said.  I can not remember Ken not meaning well. 

Yes, NY customs is an absolute nightmare for a Russian citizen.  My MIL and FIL have been through it twice - shocked.  My wife hates it just as badly ie. slow lines, fingerprinted, taken to a room in the back waiting on lines behind blacks, arabs and spanish dressed in rags with all their screaming uncontrolled, tattered children until you are allowed through.  Thoroughly insulting to Russians, and probably to most Europeans who have to go through the same sort of treatment. 

DKMM - experience, experience, experience.  29 usually is very young.

[Serebro]

Serebro, I would not take things personally.  As far as I am concerned you easily had a beautiful photo of yourself.  You probably misinterpreted something Ken C said.  I can not remember Ken not meaning well. 

Yes, NY customs is an absolute nightmare for a Russian citizen.  My MIL and FIL have been through it twice - shocked.  My wife hates it just as badly ie. slow lines, fingerprinted, taken to a room in the back waiting on lines behind blacks, arabs and spanish dressed in rags with all their screaming uncontrolled, tattered children until you are allowed through.  Thoroughly insulting to Russians, and probably to most Europeans who have to go through the same sort of treatment. 

DKMM - experience, experience, experience.  29 usually is very young.

It's nice to hear something real here, Bruce.
Thanx.
I have never tried to prevent people from posting things and trip reports, it's just interesting why they complain about the things that they have even worse in the USA. That's not fair
As for me I have posted my trip report on some online forum, too, but I don't remember I even paid attention to such small things as NYC traffic or the offensive(not even long but long and quite offensive process at the aiport), so it probably depends on the personality. But as I have said before I was rather surprized by people reaction to my post.Because not an opinion could worth a reply with a personal insult. And it's even worse as it was towards a woman. Ah, I have forgotten, people have equal rights in the usa so you can simply call a woman any words you want and hit her....In my every day life i had never been hurt that way for nothing. I am dissapointed, all the image of the males here has faded in my eyes. I have no respect for people who disrespect other people's opinion in such a bad way that they can even insult.I am dissapointed.

[jb]

Serebro,

It might surprise you to hear what many Americans think of NYC, especially those of us from the southern states.  I think you might also be surprised by what my Russian wife and her friends say about Moscow when they return from a home visit.  Of course they are Russian so they have the right.

I've had the misfortune of passing through customs and immigration in NYC myself, it was not a pleasant experience.  I much prefer to reenter the country at different POEs, Chicago isn't bad, Atlanta is good, and my personal fav is Houston. 

In all the times I've traveled to Russia, I've always gone through SVO2, I know the drill and I'm used to it.  I can see however, how someone not familiar with the process might be bewildered by it all.   I once posted the secret for getting through SVO2 quickly and easily, a few guys tried it and commented about it on their return.  SVO2 is pretty good because it's an International arrival port, SVO1 is a nightmare for anyone who doesn't have some Russian language skills.  I personally don't care to read criticism of Russia from AM on a trip report, part of the experience is to see what makes Russia,,, well, Russia.  Your country and culture is vastly different from what we are accustomed to.    Regardless of how many times I read someone comment on how women are still just women, I still believe Russian women ARE different because that is my experience. 

Privately, I celebrate that difference.

[vwrw]

From Serebro: I was rather surprized by people reaction to my post. Because not an opinion could worth a reply with a personal insult. And it's even worse as it was towards a woman. Ah, I have forgotten, people have equal rights in the usa so you can simply call a woman any words you want and hit her....

vwrw: Serebro, do you know Lily who is member here? Did you ever see as any of RWD members insults her or attacks her? I personally have never seen. But I saw many times as USA men made compliments to her. Why the same community treats different women NOT in the same way?

IF you want to be handled as a woman by men, then you need to behavior yourself as a lady. 

From DKMM:
I think my mom was surprised with the personal things J asked me about because it was really obvious that we talk about everything and often.

vwrw: The last story I heard on RWD where a man often mentioned his ex-girlfriend with who he remained friend and with who he talked about everything and often…the end of the story is that the man is going to marry his ex-girlfriend.

Does E know about J?  What does E think about your communication with the J?

[KenC]

It's nice to hear something real here, Bruce.
Thanx.
I have never tried to prevent people from posting things and trip reports, it's just interesting why they complain about the things that they have even worse in the USA. That's not fair

Now we get to the real issue: fairness.  A members observation of perceived shortcomings of Russia has nothing to do with "fairness" or comparasons to the US.  Americans will be quick to criticize things in other countries, but we are also quick to criticize our own country too.  The Russians I have come to know over the years usually fall into two catagories: #1  Harshly critical of their Motherland or more commonly #2  Extremely senitive the slightest criticizm.  They view such words as unpatriotic and take things too close to their heart.

As for me I have posted my trip report on some online forum, too, but I don't remember I even paid attention to such small things as NYC traffic or the offensive(not even long but long and quite offensive process at the aiport), so it probably depends on the personality.

Probably more a difference of culture than personality IMO.
 

But as I have said before I was rather surprized by people reaction to my post.Because not an opinion could worth a reply with a personal insult.

Where are the personal insults?  No one attacked you, only your thought process here.

And it's even worse as it was towards a woman. Ah, I have forgotten, people have equal rights in the usa so you can simply call a woman any words you want and hit her....In my every day life i had never been hurt that way for nothing.

Yes, we Americans do tend to treat women as equals.  Some of the "equality" can be harsh.  You have shown your own negativity towards DKMM a few times here in a less than sweet way I might add.  When one throws barbs as you have done here, you should be willing to accept the same treatment in return.  I will dare say that my comments toward you have been directed at your ideas and not as personal as your comments to DKMM.
 

I am dissapointed, all the image of the males here has faded in my eyes. I have no respect for people who disrespect other people's opinion in such a bad way that they can even insult.I am dissapointed.

Again, I are where are the insults?  I suspect that there is something you are misinterpreting especially when you went off into your health issues.  Please PM me so we do not derail this T/R further.
KenC

[Misha]

The whole Stavropolye belonging to Russia has this pronunciation, too.

The point that I am trying to make is that I speak Russian fluent and I have spoken to hundreds of Russians in Russia and Canada over the last 15 years. I think I am pretty capable of distinguishing Russian from Ukrainian and the other slavic languages. Also, even if you have a Ukrainian, or a Belorussian or a Tatar speaking Russian, they are more than happy to tell you what their nationality is (i.e. ethnicity). And, many of these Russians (both Russian as in citizen of Russia and ethnic Russian) had negative attitudes about other countries and they were more than happy to share these opinions in forums and when talking to each other.

[KenC]

Back to our regularly scheduled programing
DKMM,
Enjoying your trip report, but must admit somethings seem a little strange to me. 

It was strange to be meeting J, but she's been a good friend through this whole thing and I'm long past wanting more from her since the Cancun trip didn't work out.  We had tea is some bizarre underground cafe.  She gave me a bunch of gifts, claiming some were from her family.  I felt kind of strange about this, but anyway we went with it.  I think my mom was surprised with the personal things J asked me about because it was really obvious that we talk about everything and often.

I have to echo VWRW's questions.  Did "E" know you were meeting "J"?  Meeting an ex girlfriend (with your Mother) while being engaged not only seems weird to me but also very wrong.  Especially if your fiancee was kept in the dark about the meeting.
KenC

[William3rd]

There is a certain uncomfortable feeling in the report and not just there in the activity that you are mentioning.  but I think it is more in the writing style of the poster.

[Mod7]

Ya znayu a kogda ya govoryu s nimi oni sami rasskazhut esli oni russkie ili ukraintsy itd. No obychna ya mogu dogodatsya esli u cheloveka ukrainskiy yazyk kak rodnoy yazyk potomu shto on proiznosit "g" kak "kh." Vot primer: "on khovorit" i ne "govorit" kogda my poboltaem na russkom

Since this is NOT in the Russian language section, it would be polite to include an English translation .

[Misha]

Since this is NOT in the Russian language section, it would be polite to include an English translation .

Sure. I was explaining to Serebro that I know that Russians are Russians in Canada because: a) I speak their language and b) they usually tell me whether they are Russian or Ukrainian or Tatar. And, I can usually guess if someone has the Ukrainian language as their native language because they pronounce the "g" sound in Russian as "kh." Instead of saying "govorit" (he speaks) they say "KHovorit."

It is a problem, however, that I have faced with Russians. They sometimes have a difficult time understanding that a foreigner can learn their language and can understand their culture.

[DKMM]

I better get my TR going here before it gets lost in the shuffle.  Been a slow month guys?

Before i do that, to address some questions, yes E knows about J.  J is not an ex although I once had feelings for her 9 months ago.  She has known me from the beginning, way before RWD and is the reason I actually came to Russia in the 1st place.  Not only that, we have really bonded over this summer as we talked often about my relationship and she's been very supportive.  You might even say that she kind of took over RWD as my source of knowledge by giving me a head to bounce my thoughts off of.  (I have to say that Jazzy has as well and I met her in Moscow on my August trip-such a smart girl she is as well).  However, after this meeting I do realize that J might have more hopes for us than staying just friends so I'm backing off.  Also, I'm becoming much better friends with E now so I don't really talk to J as much as even a month ago.  Of course there is more detail to it than that, but no I haven't crossed any lines and yes I know to focus on my girl.  Believe me there is only 1 girl I love and want to marry here and her name starts with an E, not a J.  I always seemed to have issues with girls in the past getting jealous about the female friends I have, because I'm close with the girls I know.  I appreciate your concern but there is no monkey business going on there.

Our last full day in Piter started slowly.  Since it was Saturday, E felt it would be crazy to wake up early.  My brother and mom had other things in mind so I sent them off to Petergof (been there done that).  Me and E slept in till nearly 1pm!  I was tired the whole trip so it was an easy call, plus my priority was being fresh and ready for the big night ahead and not sightseeing with my energetic family.

We agreed to meet at 3pm somewhere, and we both were late.  They were nearly an hour late actually but it was a fun chance to people watch on Nevsky.  I witnessed a couple having a tat complete with the man smashing his phone on the sidewalk and pretending to walk away forever.  She moved across the street and when he returned in a panic I nearly wanted to point her out to him but E said "no wait he will find her."  We didn't get to see how it all turned out though because they finally came back.  We spent the next 2 hours at the markets haggling over those matrushka (sp) dolls and watching a lot of bridal parties doing their thing.  Wow they sure have different wedding traditions LOL!

That night we were planning on going to her mom's flat for a special dinner.  I put on my best clothes and we went out.  First we stopped by church for a 6pm service in the Kazan.  It was pretty cool and as always very different than anything I've experienced in the States.

We caught a car to go out to the burbs where her mom lived.  This guy saw we were foreigners so he took us the long but scenic route.  We got way out there in the land of giant concrete housing blocks.  It was surreal, even in my extensive Russian travel this place seemed most bizarre.  Its hard to describe and but I attached a photo of it but try to imagine miles of 10-20 story apartment blocks in each direction with neat rows of parks in between.  Literally thousands and thousands of similar flats could be seen from any one point.  It would be too easy to get lost...

We hit up a large grocery store on the way in that was just packed.  It was like Costco the Friday before Labor Day weekend and this was a random rainy Saturday night.  Outside walking to her place, an old man wearing military medals approached my mom and brother and shoke his cane at them yelling something in Russian like "you damn foreigners are everywhere now!"

The flat was a smallish building surrounded by larger ones again all looking the same.  I would estimate that in this "block" probably 10 to 15 thousand people live.  The main door and entry way were on par with my place in Tver, but we all did our best and not acted like anything was out of the ordinary.  (My brother later said it was worse than the projects he's visited in Philly).  You couldn't really see inside though because there were absolutely no working lights in the stairwell.

Inside the flat everything was great as usual.  Most of the walls were covered in the wood and wallpaper that I've grown to love.  I felt kind of bad for her mom and sister though because it just didn't seem the same without having a father there (he passed years ago).  Anyway, the table was set up and the food was ready!  I've been to quite a few of these and this one was the most elaborate.  It seemed like she went and bought new place settings and probably worked days on this. 

I caught my brother looking in amazment at a bikini photo shoot picture with E in it (turned out to be a fake but I never told him).  We exchanged gifts, pictures and popped the champagne.  It was much different than my other dinners in Russia because I had my mom and brother there.  I was used to being the center of attention during those but now we were equal, 3 Americans and 3 Russians.  What an unforgettable night, I can't wait to return.  I learned another thing about meals in Russia, the man is supposed to pour the alcohol.  So when your girl gives you the bottle, offer some to everyone at the table.  Everybody had a great time, again my only regret is that I wish I could actually speak to her mom.  Maybe when I learn more Russian.

Afterwards it was raining and cold.  It was much more difficult to find a car out in the burbs than in the city center.  We got back and I was pooped.  We crashed for the crazy finale, coming up in the next post.